Night Widow optimised for tough single targets

Razor_Shultz · 06-04-2009 08:45 PM

celerity? i got one of them on my bane but i slotted sprint with a running IO instead of it xD maybe i should put the IO into it xD

Effy_On_Malibu · 06-04-2009 09:29 PM

I bought the jump one only 15mill, unbounded leap might have been it. it's great, I can stand next to mobs now an they can't see me. worth every penny

@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union

Lord Mayhem · 06-12-2009 10:20 PM

Sorry I haven't posted for a while - I've been ill and forum posting was the last thing on my mind. I haven't played much CoH/V either.

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You sound like me, i like to be an absolute destroyer in combat, which explains my NRG/WP brute.

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I like powerful builds, but do I like to have some versatile builds as well. My doms are hardly godly for damage compared to my brutes/scrappers/stalkers/blasters/corruptors/warshade/VEATs, but I still really enjoy playing them (not often solo, admittedly). The widow and bane just seem especially easy builds to push into "godly destroyer" territory (warshade too, for that matter), seeing as they start out pretty good anyway even without a big spend.

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So you say you've got a godly bane build? I picked up a build called pain asylum a while back that seems absolutely godly. Mind sharing yours?

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I'm still tweaking it in Mids, although I have started bidding on the required purples already (I did manage to hit 2 billion inf again, both blueside and redside, not long after my last post).

It still irks me that to fit in Aid Self I need to drop TT:Assault and Disruptor Blast and possibly not achieve perfect melee/area defence softcap either (well, I can softcap melee if I switch out the Hecatomb set for a 3rd ToD set, but I'm unwilling to do that), or I can have all of that but not Aid Self. I have several potential builds I keep tweaking to try and fit everything in, but it's not working out - if/when I find a solution I'll post the build. I just wish Banes could soft-cap as easily as Night Widows so I had more build flexibility.

If there is one thing I have learned from my widow it is that, even with soft-capped defences, you ARE going to get hit fairly often and it is going to hurt. You need a self-heal - it just adds so much survivability - and of course it makes the "no insp" challenges possible.

The widow had no issues soloing all of the Council archvillains at AV level this evening - Maestro and Nosferatu were the toughest (as I expected) - and I certainly couldn't have done them without Aid Self - both came close to killing me on a few occasions (as did Vandal once when his Total Focus hit for hideous amounts of damage). Being able to retreat and heal is just essential in those situations, or a second hit will just wipe you out.

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I suck in mids so my motivation for levelling up characters is when i see some expert player post an absolutely godly build and i think, 'WOO i want that!'

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I used to spend far too much time in Mids. All of my builds are made from scratch, though I might occasionally take slotting ideas for certain powers from forum builds.

I still can't start playing a new character from L1 until I have a final L50 (non-purpled) build worked out in Mids that I can aim for - I might tweak the build as I level up, but I find that having a "potential" build to work towards really helps to give structure to my progress. It also ensures I don't end up assigning too many slots to some powers early on, while leaving more important powers short of slots later.

Razor_Shultz · 06-13-2009 12:39 PM

I agree, i never start new characters unless i have a clear goal.

Well if you ever happen to publish your warshade build i would love to see it. I have a broken lvl 50 warshade and it could really do with some help. It's squishy as anything and can hardly solo. I really messed it up trying to achieve a good triform performance.

What i'm after is an awesome tank when in lobster form, and beasty damage when i'm in worm form x)

And if you happen to tweak and improve your widow build, i'd also like to thieve it if at all possible, xD

What's your global? I think i'd like to meet up with ya sometime on villains.

Lord Mayhem · 06-13-2009 02:03 PM

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Well if you ever happen to publish your warshade build i would love to see it. I have a broken lvl 50 warshade and it could really do with some help. It's squishy as anything and can hardly solo. I really messed it up trying to achieve a good triform performance.

What i'm after is an awesome tank when in lobster form, and beasty damage when i'm in worm form x)

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Well currently my warshade has a pretty decent build, it just isn't purpled. It's tri-form, but focused mainly on nova/dwarf forms. I mainly played it as a double-mire build, spending most of my time in eclipsed nova form, but I haven't played it at all since Black Dwarf Mire got nerfed/changed. I understand that double-miring isn't as effective anymore, but dwarf form is now a lot more useful in isolation /shrug.

My original aim was 3 pets out and spending most of my time at the damage/resist/ToHit caps in nova form (i.e. perma-eclipsed and perma-mired) - which, duoing hazard zone spawns with my fire/kin friend, was pretty easily achieved. My main desire for purpling my warshade now would be to achieve that more easily solo. However until I get the chance to play him some more and develop a purpled build in Mids I'm not sure I'm the best person to ask about a current build.

In I12 and before my build worked pretty well in large spawn situations (especially hazard zones while levelling up), including an 8-person ITF where I soloed a lot of spawns (particularly the ones on the bridges/balconies in lag valley) with no problems at all, because the team wanted to test if removing a lot of the extraneous spawns cured the terrible lag for the main team working their way up lag valley (it didn't, sadly). On that same ITF I also tanked Rom (and his Nictus for a while) with no issues whatsoever (using both dwarf and eclipsed nova alternately).

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And if you happen to tweak and improve your widow build, i'd also like to thieve it if at all possible, xD

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I'm probably going to leave the widow as she is for now. At some point I might drop Poison Dart for Swipe, for a gap-less melee attack chain with better DPE (which would help on the Pylon Challenge), but currently I'm happy with her performance for 99% of the things I want to do (and Poison Dart + Dart Burst proves pretty useful in general play).

From what I wanted to do it's only pylon-soloing that seems beyond her (without insp-usage - blues/greens mainly) and I'm not overly fussed about that (pylon soloing is more boring than soloing AVs anyway, and for zero reward). She can do the RWZ challenge easily and has had no trouble with most of the AVs/EBs I've run into in MA (custom or otherwise), so on that basis I'm happy with her build - which is a relief considering how much it cost

I may be moving back blueside soon, so I may build a scrapper at some stage to do the pylon challenge (thinking Fire/ or Dark/ primary, maybe /Shield or /SR or /WP secondary). Tbh I may just purple-up my Claw/WP at some point (he's incredibly end-efficient), herd up some Rikti Monkeys, and see how he fares at it. It's low priority now though - my current project is getting a Bane build I'm happy with and purpling that up, then buying the IOs for my Fortunata build (I already have one worked out in Mids I'm pretty happy with).

After that my attention will likely shift to blueside to get some godly characters there (purpling some/all of my 3 existing blueside L50s, and maybe the Illu/Rad I plan to level soon with my friend's Illu/Kin, as a potential GM-soloer at L50).

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What's your global? I think i'd like to meet up with ya sometime on villains.

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@Lord Mayhem, though I haven't been on much lately due to illness. I tend to spend most of my online time duoing with the same friend (and not chatting much cos I tend to focus on playing), so the best time to chat to me is usually around midnight when we finish duoing and I tend to either be doing market stuff and/or chatting on global channels (like Union Chat). Weekends are good too.

Lord Mayhem · 06-13-2009 02:40 PM

Ahh heck, I may as well post my current Bane build and the proposed build I've been trying to tweak for it. Maybe someone will have some ideas that will help my thought process.

Bane first. First I'll post his current non-purpled build (which works pretty well for my playstyle), so you know his current performance level, and also in case anyone wants a good stalker-like Bane build on the cheap:

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Marshall Saint: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Bane Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Bane Spider Training
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Bash -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), T'Death-Dam%(39)
Level 1: Bane Spider Armor Upgrade -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(40)
Level 2: Combat Training: Defensive -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A), DefBuff-I(9), DefBuff-I(9)
Level 4: Wolf Spider Armor -- S'fstPrt-ResKB(A)
Level 6: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(7), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(7), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(43), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Build%(46)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def(11), DefBuff-I(11)
Level 12: Poisonous Ray -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(13), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), Achilles-ResDeb%(40)
Level 14: Pulverize -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), T'Death-Dam%(39)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Shatter -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), T'Death-Dam%(39)
Level 20: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 22: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(23)
Level 24: Cloaking Device -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def(27), DefBuff-I(27)
Level 26: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 28: Surveillance -- AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(A), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(29), AnWeak-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(29), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(31), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg(31), UndDef-DefDeb/EndRdx(31)
Level 30: Placate -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 32: Crowd Control -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(33), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(33), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(33), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Venom Grenade -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dam%(37), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 38: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 41: Mace Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(42), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), ExStrk-Dam%(43)
Level 44: Disruptor Blast -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dam%(46), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 47: Web Envelope -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(48), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(48), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(48), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(50), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(50)
Level 49: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
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This build has pretty much all of the powers I want, except no Call Reinforcements (though I didn't think pets really fitted a stalker playstyle, but it would be nice to have them for specific moments), no Aid Self (the main thing I want/need) and no Combat Jumping (I really miss it for in-combat movement and to make Super Speed more agile). The above build is also not softcapped, which wasn't a major problem for me at first as I usually duo'd with my Night Widow friend (whose TT:M and ML would softcap me), but as I started using this character more for soloing it became an issue.

So the main aim is to get Aid Self and CJ into this build, then to softcap it to at least melee/ranged (if not area too), without dropping too many powers that I consider core to my playstyle (I'm willing to sacrifice Web Envelope as I only took that for thematic reasons, then found I never used it. I could also live with losing TT:A and possibly Disruptor Blast if pushed), plus getting as much global recharge as I can (naturally). My ideal single target attack chain would be Shatter -> Poisonous Ray -> Pulverise, with Bash as a filler for when slowed, and Mace Blast to kill runners (and because I like having a decent ranged attack).

Yet I've been really struggling to get a Mids build I'm happy with. Of the many many builds I've created and adapted the following probably comes closest to what I want - it has Aid Self and CJ, but loses TT:A and Disruptor Blast (and Web Envelope, but I don't care about that) - it is close to being softcapped for melee (about 1.8% short), is softcapped to ranged, but is nowhere near area softcap - and it has tons of global recharge (Hasten around 5secs from perma). I could softcap it to melee by 6-slotting Shield Breaker in Surveillance, but I'm unwilling to do that as the proc would make Surv cause aggro (which I don't want as I need to fit in BU+Shatter after the Surv, before the target aggroes).

I'm open to ideas. Oh and again the main metric for performance is being able to do the RWZ Challenge.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Marshall Saint: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Bane Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Bane Spider Training
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Bash -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), T'Death-Dam%(39)
Level 1: Bane Spider Armor Upgrade -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 2: Combat Training: Defensive -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A), GftotA-Run+(9), LkGmblr-Def(9), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 4: Wolf Spider Armor -- S'fstPrt-ResKB(A)
Level 6: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(7), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(7), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(46), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(46), GSFC-Build%(46)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Run+(11), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40)
Level 12: Poisonous Ray -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(13), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(25), Apoc-Dam%(25), Achilles-ResDeb%(40)
Level 14: Pulverize -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(15), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(15), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), T'Death-Dam%(39)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Shatter -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(19), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Hectmb-Dam%(21), T'Death-Dam%(39)
Level 20: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 22: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(23)
Level 24: Cloaking Device -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Run+(27), LkGmblr-Def(27), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 26: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(31), Zephyr-ResKB(37)
Level 28: Surveillance -- ExVuln-DefDeb(A), ExVuln-DefDeb/Rchg(29), ExVuln-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(29), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(31), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(31)
Level 30: Placate -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 32: Crowd Control -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(34)
Level 35: Venom Grenade -- Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(36), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Ragnrk-Knock%(37), Posi-Dam%(43)
Level 38: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(45), Zephyr-ResKB(48), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Rchg+(48)
Level 41: Mace Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(42), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), ExStrk-Dam%(43)
Level 44: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 47: Aid Other -- Heal-I(A)
Level 49: Aid Self -- H'zdH-Heal/Rchg(A), H'zdH-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(50), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
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Razor_Shultz · 06-13-2009 03:53 PM

Solid builds in both cases, but i'm sure you could squeeze a lot more damage out of either of them. As stalkers i'm sure they moare than fit the bill by looking at them x)

Lord Mayhem · 06-24-2009 02:07 PM

I respec'd my Bane last night into the purpled build above. He is now capable of the RWZ Challenge and seems as survivable as my Night Widow while doing it, and takes a similar amount of time to take down a L54 triple-boss spawn (no, I didn't actually time it).

As with the Widow I took down several triple-boss L54 spawns just to make sure I hadn't totally fluked it - he managed L54 spawns with 3 Chief Soldiers, ones with 2 Chief Soldiers and a Chief Mesmerist, and the easier spawns with just 1 Chief Soldier and 2 Chief Mesmerists - he did die on my first attempt against 3 Chief Soldiers, but then I do find those the hardest L54 spawns, as it just takes two of the Soldiers getting lucky (i.e. their 5% chance to hit you with their big swords) and you're toast - but two further attempts against spawns of that type were successful without any problems.

As with the Widow, I took out the minions and lieuts first (because they go down so fast, which cuts incoming damage by so much) and left the 3 bosses til last (focusing on Chief Soldiers before Chief Mesmerists, as they take same amount of time to kill but the Soldiers are more lethal).

The Bane certainly does better on the Pylon Challenge too - mainly due to the -res debuffs I think. But again, the pylon hitting you twice consecutively is just death - Aid Self can't heal you back to full before the second hit, even though my Bane has more HP than my Widow. My Bane got the Pylon down to around 30% health before he got double-shotted dead like that, but he didn't have the end issues the Widow did.

I'll have to try again at some stage and see if I can "luck it out" all the way through a pylon without being hit twice consecutively - or maybe I'll just "cheat" and take some green insps along. I'm not actually sure if using insps is against the spirit of the Pylon Challenge, or if I'm just thinking of the RWZ Challenge (which is definitely no insps, no godmodes, etc).

As with all defence builds, if luck goes against you then you're doomed - they're not as predictable as resist-based builds (yet tend to be better against high damage enemies where you'd rather not be hit at all if possible) - but having Aid Self and almost being at melee softcap has certainly made a huge difference to the Bane's survivability. I haven't tried the Bane against any AVs yet, but he mowed through a L54 Rikti Heavy Suit EB without too many issues.

So I can certainly say that purpling my Widow and Bane builds, as above, was worth the inf/effort - they're both incredibly powerful for normal gameplay. The Widow has better dps, but the Bane's better burst damage and -res debuffs plus his considerably better end-efficiency do close the gap - survivability-wise I think the Widow would only seem better against -def debuffers and/or lots of area damage. Admittedly neither of them can clear the wall spawns in Cimerora as fast as my Archery/Energy blaster (which I just purpled-up), but different horses for different courses.

My current project is making a few tweaks to my Crab build to add a couple of purple sets (to get his 6 pets near-perma) and then I'll start raising inf to do a purpled Fortunata build, seeing as I've just settled on a final build for that in Mids which has perma-Hasten/ML.

I've seen lots of people saying they don't think purple IOs are worth the extra inf and that they don't think the set bonuses would make a big difference. I used to think like that. Honestly, if you do go the extra mile and use several purple sets plus other uniques such as LotG +7.5s it really does make a noticeable difference to how they play - at least it does to Banes, Widows and Blasters.

Razor_Shultz · 06-24-2009 03:11 PM

Awesone, so your bane build is definately worth slotting I take it x)

And yeah, i like purples too xD