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Come on man, at least have a discussion.
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We've had it. To many times to count.
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why can't explain to me why you bring in another side to the game called Villians when they are actually not required?
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I agree. They aren't required.
And open world PvP wouldn't change that. It would still just be the red side vs the blue side, only spread over more zones.
NPCs make much better villains than players. Why? because the role of the comic book villain is to be beaten by the hero, to show how strong/brave/clever the hero is, and what fun is it to play a character whose only destiny in life is to always be beaten?
I really should do something about this signature.
You're swamped with Nos and lack of discussion, because your suggestions and insights appear, and most likely are, very poorly informed.
On Villain ATs:
No, they are not mirrors of heroes. There is no blaster, or tanker (or scrapper) for that matter. There's also no controller. What you have are:
Stalker Unique AT whose stealth is his main strength. Not as durable as a scrapper.
Dominator Control and Damage, not Control & Defender Primary. Totally different role
Mastermind The intended CoV 'tanks'. Certain powerset synergies can take (and dish out) a lot of damage. Their secondaries are debuffs to aid in pet damage and per survival, NOT to replace defenders.
Brutes What scrappers should have been. Not as durable as a tank without buffs, but more hardy than scrappers, and dealing more DPS (with Fury maxed out) too.
Corruptors Reverse Defenders, Attack is the primary, debuff is the secondary. They mainly have debuffs to aid their own (when solo) and the team's damage output, and also aid in team survivabilty.
Calling them mere mirrors with different names is frighteningly uninformed and ignorant, and I simply didn't wish to discuss it because your next post would probably be (and was), a '*sob sob* these forums are horrible because they don't like my brilliant idea*'
Go figure
thanks Carnifax for your comments, first off I will admit that as a player who hasn't been on the game since way way before CoV was even released, before even the first major patch I haven't read every thread on this forum.
So i'll hold my hands up and say, perhaps if I'd looked harder I'd have found the threads your talking about.
But still, forums are what they are and i wanted a discussion 
Praf68, cool I see your point, you would have to have constant PvP as the Villian would be in an area where he techincally isn't allowed. So yeah, probably wouldn't work.
So perhaps, as they have brought in day jobs, Heroes and Villians may have another side to their character, a hidden one, like ofc Clarke Kent, obvious one.
Maybe they would be allowed to roam these areas in this disguise, pretending to be a civillian.
you could do mission maps etc, just not engage in any sort of public fighting with NPC's or your cover would be blown.
these are all just small ideas to try and bring more to the game.
I'd like to hear some your ideas to make it better as well. I will ofc be reading some of these other threads as well to see what has been voiced so far
My real reason for wanting the Villians and Heroes to be allowed to go to these other cities is because sometimes the game is very very quiet, you don't see anyone at all at times. Granted what time you are playing at contributes to that a lot.
Xemulas - Dude you are really taking this too far as if we are fighting with each otehr and making out I'm some sort of emo kid.
you think i can't look at a Brute and figure they are a less hardy version of a tank with more DPS?
Brutes ARE the Villians version of a tanker, they ARE the class that CAN take the most damage.
Dominators ARE the Villians Primary controlling class hence theyre version of a controller.
Masterminds are the only really new AT with having primary as pets, however their secondary is what the Defender has as a primary.
Stalkers have exactly the same Power sets as scarappers give or take, do pretty much what they do, single target DPS. Whether or not they have stealth inherent is besides the point. Generally they are the Villians version fo a scrapper.
and Corrupters ARE the only AT on the Villian side with Blaster Primary, so wait for it, they are the Villians version of a blaster.
Note how I said VERSION, and I think if you read back what i said was, they are basically the same, not EXACTLY the same.
Whether or not they play slightly different roles or not does not make me ignorant. It means I didn't want to have to sit here and spell out the precise differences between them all.
What i was pointing out is, despite their differences, what exactly makes them Evil or Villanous? Nothing! they do the same thing a Hero does.
So before you attack me again, calling me ignorant and a cry baby, why don't you read outside the box of what I've said and tke it more generally and less literally.
Anyone can poke holes in everything written on forums. you actually think if we had been talking in real life once you stated what u did, i wouldn't have said, hang on, sorry, i think you have misunderstood what I was saying, let me re-phrase.
And the fact that you don't like my ideas, fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinions, I just don't like to be spoken to the way you did. I didn't call you anything so why do it to me?
chilliPepper, are you suggesting a sort of "secret identity" thing with the roam areas in disguise suggestion? NC (well Cryptic but it still stands) has said that it's very hard to do such a thing.
They ("And who are they, the Wizards?") have mentioned 'Going Rogue' and suchnot being implemented in future, so it is possible that the game may open up more.
Much as I would love to see a more open, linked and greater game, without the need for WoWesque PvP and that, it won't happen on this engine. The Devs can be shady about things, but that is one thing I think they said was a definite.
Heroes fighting Villains and vice versa is great. Mission Architect gives us that to some extent. Seeing as actual PvP took a major pummeling, and was never built in from the get go, it's not surprising its somewhat kept at bay.
And please, NO MORE CO-OP ZONES.
Rikti I can agree with. Nothing like a rain of Alien genocidilists to unite even the most hated foes, with backstabbing along the way.
Cimerora? Hmm...maybe. Only maybe.
Pushing any more is...pushing it.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I agree with Alpha, the game's becoming City of Heroes & Anti-Heroes with all the co-op zones poping up
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I agree with Alpha, the game's becoming City of Heroes & Anti-Heroes with all the co-op zones poping up
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Aye. I would also suggest making the things you do in CoV a little more...evil, y'know. Because real comic book villains would probably laugh in shame at what villains do in CoV.
I mean, theres a difference between Arch-Villain and villain, sure. Most of mine count as Villains. They are generally quite nasty, but they have one or two qualities that keep them still just about human.
Whereas Arch-Villains in the comic-book sense are the ones who will no stop until the world is under their iron fisted rule. One of mine qualifies for that, a lunatic, iradiated madman who lacks mercy, pity and msot feelings.
We have very few of them, it seems. Its expected to be City of Heroes and slightly Vigilantes.
Less of the rescue missions, more Westin Phipps! More Project Destiny, more Evil laughter, mad science, corrupted genius...
We're villains, damnit! It's time we started acting like it!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I can see what you're getting at Chilli.
In almost every comic book scenario the heroes and villains operate in the same city, New York, Metropolis, Gotham etc.
In an ideal situation I would love to have my heroes carry out missions in the Rogue Isles and villains in Paragon City.
The problem is PvP. Open PvP, flaggable/opt in-out PvP simply won't work in this game.
Open PvP is simply a non starter. It's too late for this game to have this. If CoX and CoV had started together it may have been possible but not now.
Flaggable PvP or opt in/out PvP is also pretty much a non starter. The harrassment, trash talking, chicken emotes etc would ruin the game for far too many people.
It would take a very complex method to allow opposite faction characters to opearate inside non instanced zones, and even then it would still have to have the capacity of some form of limited open PvP to work - which is the problem.
If such a system became available I would jump at the chance to go to the Rogue Isles with my heroes, but I just can't see it happening in this game's lifetime to be quite honest.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
See the main problem I find with villians compared to heroes is there is no proper meet up spot like the statue of atlas in atlas park, which means people log on villians, think its dead and they switch to heroes again.
Also the lack of teaming isnt something that can easily be solved. I think going rogue would be a great addon compared to another co-op zone, I mean, RWZ and cimerora have been played to death. Heroes and villains arent meant to be friends so why make zone after zone forcing them to be?
I dont think the world pvp would work in CoX, there just arent enough people wanting to PvP anymore. i14 i think has kind of helped that in a way because of the new pvp sets but not much, they need more rewards like that such as costume pieces, badges etc... oh and fix what they broke a couple of issues ago 
For me to get villians more active, mercy island needs an overhaul and then it might attract more people. It just doesnt have the feel of playing in Atlas, its more enclosed and theres mission after mission with snakes (sorted in i14 ok)
Im sure if the starting area was made more user friendly, more players would be willing to try it out.
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Brutes ARE the Villians version of a tanker, they ARE the class that CAN take the most damage.
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Actually, they aren't. MMs are. And MMs are the AT intended to fill the tanker role on villain teams.
Brutes where intended to be a DPS scrapper equivelent.
Stalkers where orignially intended to be the glass cannon blaster equivelent, but they never really worked.
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what exactly makes them Evil or Villanous? Nothing! they do the same thing a Hero does.
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Yes, true. The addition of CoV was a bad idea that never really worked. But none of your suggestions would ever fix that,the problem lies with the basic game format. the only way to lat players be real supervillains is if you game them the oportunity to come up with thier own evil plans, and let them take over the world. I.e. a stratagy game like Evil Genius.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I agree with Alpha, the game's becoming City of Heroes & Anti-Heroes with all the co-op zones poping up
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I had to comment on this.
Lord Recluse isn't evil. There, I said it. He's just got a more militaristic perspective. Where's the villainy in producing a system of government which is a bit more restrictive than normal, where the strong survive (pretty much the capitalist system anyway)? ...but really it's just a bit more harsh. It's hardly hell on earth, and that's as it should be. It's City of Villains, not City of Psychopathic Murderers
Please fight My Brute: http://2hero.mybrute.com
Mission Architect 54161 - Michael Mundano, Megan Malloney and the Secret Senate.
Mission Architect 91838 - Constantinople Jones' Family Secret. A One Mission Story arc.
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I agree with Alpha, the game's becoming City of Heroes & Anti-Heroes with all the co-op zones poping up
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I had to comment on this.
Lord Recluse isn't evil. There, I said it. He's just got a more militaristic perspective. Where's the villainy in producing a system of government which is a bit more restrictive than normal, where the strong survive (pretty much the capitalist system anyway)? ...but really it's just a bit more harsh. It's hardly hell on earth, and that's as it should be. It's City of Villains, not City of Psychopathic Murderers
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Wait right there...
*Runs to get information*
Lord Recluse holds dominion over the Rogue Isles, a position he got by killing his rival.
He regulary makes plans which involve-
Killing Heroes
Killing Statesman
Subliminal Mind Control
Chemical Mind Control
Stealing the powers of Meta-humans
Using time travel to take over the world
He's a villain.
It's not what you do, it's how you do it that defines if you're a hero or villain.
Oh definetly Recluse is evil he may not be the baby eating kill you because its funny type of evil but he's evil just the same.
I've always though of Recluse as a Dr Doom type character.
He does what he does because he thinks it's right - regardless of the consequences for others.
Proud member of FOXBASE ALPHA and coalition associates.
Hero 50's - 25
Villain 50's - 1
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I've always though of Recluse as a Dr Doom type character.
He does what he does because he thinks it's right - regardless of the consequences for others.
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Yup. IIRC, Doom saved Sue Richards (Nee Storm) when she was having her kid/s. He's a Villain. Hes just not in the ArchVillain realm of someone like, Iunno, Apocalypse or someone.
I think CoV was once actually described as being like 'Dr Doom opening up his city to a swarm of villains and saying "Do what you want, jsut don't get in my way." '
Can't for the life of me remember where Doom lives/rules/owns.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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[ QUOTE ]
I think CoV was once actually described as being like 'Dr Doom opening up his city to a swarm of villains and saying "Do what you want, jsut don't get in my way." '
Can't for the life of me remember where Doom lives/rules/owns.
[/ QUOTE ]Latveria. 
Tyger (50), Mutation-Controller Mind/FF - oldest Mind/FF on Union
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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I've always though of Recluse as a Dr Doom type character.
He does what he does because he thinks it's right - regardless of the consequences for others.
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Yup. IIRC, Doom saved Sue Richards (Nee Storm) when she was having her kid/s. He's a Villain. Hes just not in the ArchVillain realm of someone like, Iunno, Apocalypse or someone.
I think CoV was once actually described as being like 'Dr Doom opening up his city to a swarm of villains and saying "Do what you want, jsut don't get in my way." '
Can't for the life of me remember where Doom lives/rules/owns.
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Dooms definitely up there with old Apocalypse and is definitely arch villain (as is our recluse) there also what most people would class as evil but i suppose to be more accurate there very narrow minded, some what self centered, and pretty amoral
Doom dose what he dose out of some kind of twisted love for his kingdom he doesnt care about the rest of the world as long as Latveria survives and is strong he would more than likely murder the entire world to save one latverian tho at the same time he would if needs required it sacrifice hundreds of his people to save the rest.
Apocalypse is the same from birth he was raised by a single ideal survival of the fittest and he tends to view him self as the test for the world and more specifically mutants but like most of the high powered villains he's doing because he believes he's doing the right thing even if it means bumping of half the world to do it.
recluse is the same he dose what he dose to safeguard both his position and the position of his kingdom he didn't free all the villains out of the goodness of his hart after all or because he felt like causing mayhem he did it because he believes that one of those freed is destined to raise him to greatness.
Probably the closest to evil in the CoH verse not counting the daemons is Mako who would kill you as soon as look at you and for no reason whatsoever.
At Least if recluse kills you there would be a reason (all be it you mite not see his logic)
Dr Doom works on a list system a little like follows.
How will it affect me?
How will it affect Latveria?
How will it affect Susan?
How will it affect Richards?
How will it affect everyone else?
Baring the Richards and everyone else question, if it has a negative effect he probably won't go through with it. He's even gone to the lengths of freeing the FF before because he would be required to hurt Susan.
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Ok, well I thought I'd get at least some mature responses from people on these forums, like the guys who welcomed me back to the game after 4 years.
Hold me down with a bat? Come on man, at least have a discussion. You talk about people spouting elitist and trash talk, whats that exactly?
Xemulas, why don't you explain to me what Villians are then?
Why don't you tell me what i'm not understanding? I mean god forbid I might need to get a 3rd Degree to understand a computer game. I think from 7 years of playing MMO's I understand them pretty well.
Perhaps its some sort of comic lore you are talking about which is why you have made this comment? I will admit I'm not an expert on comics, in fact far from it.
Praf68, i'm glad you agree that the NPC's are the Villians of the game, so why can't explain to me why you bring in another side to the game called Villians when they are actually not required?
When what you will do as a Villian is exactly the same job a Hero does?
Right now I hear a lot of people dismissing every comment I make with.. NO or 'Grabs bat', I don't see any decent arguements against my points. Isn't that what a community forum is for?
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If the world was open then it would have to be free-for-all PvP. Because if you see a villain wandering about Paragon City, one who is known for escaping the Zig, probably has robbed nearly every bank in the city and all the other Paragon City based things villains get up to you'd arrest them on site.So any sort of "opt in" system makes no sense ingame.
Any sort of free for all PvP in CoH wouldn't work. The areas are too open, unlike say WAR where the maps are basically two "paths" of good and evil which overlap at points. So Ganking etc would be common place. Also PvP in CoH is terrible, it just isn't much fun. Powers for PvP work differently to PvE, and this is worked out by (1) the Target hit by a Power (for attacks etc) and (2) The Type of Map you are on. So because of Point 2 free-for-all PvP (or open area PvP) cannot work in CoX.
In other words No