While this thread hasn't really done anything to change attitudes it's shown the people who in-fact do think like that and those who are more reasonable and friendly.
If New people now feel they can go to some of the more reasonable people for advice or a fun team, then at least something positive has come out of it. Which is what i was aiming for in the first place. 
The above is only my opinion, please don't hate me for it
SG: Suicidal Maniacs @Aurealis
GhostRaptor: Server populations have been trending upwards since Issue 13 release. There are no current plans for any server mergers and we're looking forward to Issue 14 and the rest of the year.
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Oo.. so wait a minute.
Saying Stamina is not needed is elitist and saying it's needed is also elitist?
Sorta like a lose-lose then?
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Hmm kinda like this thread then? has it not been euthanized yet?!?!
So, basically, point of the thread is: giving people good advice ("get Stamina") makes you a jerk?
the thing a lot of people seem to be missing is that Elitism is not saying to some one "i would get power X because its Y" that's just handing out advise now the person may not require that advise they maybe know that power X will help them but maybe they don't want it or maybe there's just going for something different.
As a example i have a fire/stone brute i do have granite but by and large refuse to run it as it doesn't fit my concept for my character while on a ITF the leader suggested i would have much better protection if i had granite i explained that i did have it but did not like it as i find the -dmg -recharge -slow effects my bruteing far more than the +res +def dose i also dislike the way it completely alters the look of my character now had the leader been Elitist he would have more than likely ridiculed my build and kicked me from the team instead he accepted my reasoning and we went on to complete the ITF.
My point is there's nothing wrong with giving advise its the attitude that come along with the advise that determines weather there being Elitist or not.
no , yelling and ranting and kicking them from your team ..for not having stamina makes you a jerk ..
ALSO . . shouting down someone trying to give you advice ie Stam ..makes you a jerk
as with most human to human interaction , one has to take care when dealing with other humans ..its very easy to be misinterpreted ...
People are a problem 
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arrow keys
[/ QUOTE ]Ah, that explains a lot of things.
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How?
[/ QUOTE ]If you don't get it, you're part of the problem.
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arrow keys
[/ QUOTE ]Ah, that explains a lot of things.
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How?
[/ QUOTE ]If you don't get it, you're part of the problem.
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Do arrow keys still count if they've been pulled up and re-placed where the WSAD keys usually sit?
By my mohawk shall ye know me!
my toons
Funny: Ee-Ai-Ee-Ai-Oh! #3662 * The foul-mouthed Handyman! #1076 * City of Norms #132944
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Or you just could give an answer why arrow keys are supposed to be bad.
The M.A.D. Files - Me talking about games, films, games, life, games, internet and games
I'm not good at giving advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?
@Lyrik
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arrow keys
[/ QUOTE ]Ah, that explains a lot of things.
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How?
[/ QUOTE ]If you don't get it, you're part of the problem.
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I use arrow keys + Q/W to navigate. Some people might find ZXCV is easier for them to move around as an example. You cant really say "this is the right way, your way is just stupid".
You personally might find a certain method of more benefit to you and your friends but that doesnt make it the best option for other people. People have choices, let them make it without being put down as automatically wrong
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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You cant really say "this is the right way, your way is just stupid".
[/ QUOTE ]I just did. Using letter keys (whether WASD or something else like ESDF) is far more efficient than using arrow keys since it allows you to reach significantly more keys using one hand. And your other hand should be on he mouse most of the time.
Well, on the subject of how different people handle movement...
I use W/S for forward/back; A/D for strafing; and the mouse with right-button depressed for rotating about my character's axis.
Each to their own, I say.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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You cant really say "this is the right way, your way is just stupid".
[/ QUOTE ]I just did. Using letter keys (whether WASD or something else like ESDF) is far more efficient than using arrow keys since it allows you to reach significantly more keys using one hand. And your other hand should be on he mouse most of the time.
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Except if you are left handed and use the mouse with the left hand so you control the keyboard with your right hand.
I use the arrow keys to move, have all of my attacks
chained to my numpad and the keys above the arrows.
The M.A.D. Files - Me talking about games, films, games, life, games, internet and games
I'm not good at giving advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?
@Lyrik
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You cant really say "this is the right way, your way is just stupid".
[/ QUOTE ]I just did. Using letter keys (whether WASD or something else like ESDF) is far more efficient than using arrow keys since it allows you to reach significantly more keys using one hand. And your other hand should be on he mouse most of the time.
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OR ( )
if your like me you use the one hand on the arrow keys while the other hand is on QW (turn left/right), therefore your QW hand is near the power activation buttons/binds which minimises time and is easier to remember.
I admit i hardly ever use the mouse ingame unless on the rare occasion i have to target a specific enemy before battle. Otherwise its a simple case of tab/"target_enemy" which is for me much more simpler and realistic than the way you described. If your way works better for you personally then great go with it, but for me this is my personall best method and my gaming hasnt suffered from it.
So once again all it comes down to is opinion/choices. There isnt a right way/wrong way about this subject.
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Well, on the subject of how different people handle movement...
I use W/S for forward/back; A/D for strafing; and the mouse with right-button depressed for rotating about my character's axis.
Each to their own, I say.
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This is what i mean, its all down to personal choice to what the player deems more effecient/better for themselves.
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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Your using the word "sheep" there, to me that means they all agreed the food was good but didn't think so or atleast you didn't think they felt that way. Then you gave a subjective opinion based on what you think the majority would agree on.
Now by using the majority as a baseline to determine the clear rights and wrongs we are going with the flow, and doing what everyone else does and so become like the sheep.
Paradox?
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I used the word "sheep" just to provoke as I find it usually amusing. So call me troll. I don't think they all hated the food after all it was perfectly edible. I just meant that most of the people tend to keep the criticism to themselves because it is the politically correct way to do so.
Anyways... In this particular case as in many others there are only two ways to judge the end product as you nicely pointed out. Your own subjective opinion or your own interpretation of the majority's opinion. Now both of those can be debated to no end but I think the last one at least share some common ground with both parties.
If we have two restaurants which one of them is popular because of its good food and the one is not, we have a majority baseline and if I have happened to be in the same cooking school with the chefs in the famous restaurant I would say that I have a better view of the "correct" way to make food instead of the cook in the less popular restaurant.
Now if we apply this to the game world it would generally mean that most people who have been playing a long time tend to know the game mechanics better and so have better understanding how to perform well in the game. Agreed?
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
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Or you just could give an answer why arrow keys are supposed to be bad.
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They're not - it's just a different method which works fine
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Keep it civil and non-personal please, folks.
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Well, on the subject of how different people handle movement...
I use W/S for forward/back; A/D for strafing; and the mouse with right-button depressed for rotating about my character's axis.
Each to their own, I say.
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I agree with Shadowe.
It's not like playing the game is life-or-death rocket science, who cares if people want to use WASD, the arrow keys or 5678 (if they're an old Speccy user who misses the Cursor Keys)?
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Well, on the subject of how different people handle movement...
I use W/S for forward/back; A/D for strafing; and the mouse with right-button depressed for rotating about my character's axis.
Each to their own, I say.
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I agree with Shadowe.
It's not like playing the game is life-or-death rocket science, who cares if people want to use WASD, the arrow keys or 5678 (if they're an old Speccy user who misses the Cursor Keys)?
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That is something i noticed on some players, they are taking this game too seriously. Sometimes i think i am the only one who plays this game for relaxing from everyday troubles.
Everyone has their own play style, own power picks and own ideas about their heroes. In the end some call others who doesn't fit their idea of perfect as elitists, noobs or whatever they want to name them. No matter whatever you call the others one thing i can't stand in game is being rude and being disrespectfull to others in game/team.
So everyone can flag one another with whichever title they see fit, unless they don't disturb my peace. 
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Well, on the subject of how different people handle movement...
I use W/S for forward/back; A/D for strafing; and the mouse with right-button depressed for rotating about my character's axis.
Each to their own, I say.
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I agree with Shadowe.
It's not like playing the game is life-or-death rocket science, who cares if people want to use WASD, the arrow keys or 5678 (if they're an old Speccy user who misses the Cursor Keys)?
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If these threads can't even agree on the meaning of the word elitism, then we really are in trouble.
It seems to me it means that because I play a certain way or play to a certain level, or understand certain complex aspects of the game,then the fact you can't makes you inferior to me and I cant be bothered with you.
Like I say, I dont know anyone like that, in game.
I'm pretty qualified to say this because not only have I played since day one of the USA but I ran a successful and large SG for years. So I have met literally hundreds of players and cant think of anyone who fits this elitist catagory.
Almost everyone I ever played with plays to enjoy it and are, or certainly seem to be, pretty good natured and easy going.
Don't get into a flap. It's only my opinion and I'm thick
Arc 56763 Lord Anarchys heaven
2 mission arc. Bring friends cause Lord Anarchy means business...
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Almost everyone I ever played with plays to enjoy it and are, or certainly seem to be, pretty good natured and easy going.
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Bah! I spit on you and your easy going friends! I rock and you suck!
I disapprove being labeled as an "elitist". That would imply that there are other people as good as me and that is simply not true. I'd say I was l33t unless I wouldnt despise people using unwords like that.
I ar Elite.
... and by they way I think that playing with "SRHP" combination is the best way to go. Doing it any other way is inferior to my way.
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
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So, basically, point of the thread is: giving people good advice ("get Stamina") makes you a jerk?
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No...you just need to put in the right way.
Getting into a hissy fit because someone doesn't have x power as you said earlier? That's bad.
Saying "Hey, why don't you try X power, it might help you"? That's good.
Of course, they will probably be some good reasoning behind not taking it. And at the end of the day, advice is advice, and people don't have to follow it. Getting into a hissy fit about a power is just as bad as kicking someone for not getting a power. In fact, getting into a hissy fit can lead to you kicking them, if your anger is not controlled.
Let's face it. There are certain people who don't take Taunt on tankers, Healing Aura on Empathy, and Stamina on most builds. There is no need to get into a hissy fit about that. It's just as reasonable as getting into a hissy fit about someone being a vegeterian, but there's good reasoning behind it.
So at the end of the day, Blitzkreiger, I very much recommend you don't get into a hissy fit at whatever power they haven't taken. That'll just get people to hate you.
Also, if you think you come out as elitist, you've actually been playing shorter than most elitists - you've been playing just over 12 months. How quick you learn, my friend, how quick you learn. 
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Now if we apply this to the game world it would generally mean that most people who have been playing a long time tend to know the game mechanics better and so have better understanding how to perform well in the game. Agreed?
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It's a common mistake for people to think or hope they know more than they do. Self included. I place teamwork around concept above performance (which is generally making things as least challenging as they can possibly become but that can be the result of a challenge).
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Keep it civil and non-personal please, folks.
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I always do - or was that just a quick reply?
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Now if we apply this to the game world it would generally mean that most people who have been playing a long time tend to know the game mechanics better and so have better understanding how to perform well in the game. Agreed?
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It's a common mistake for people to think or hope they know more than they do. Self included. I place teamwork around concept above performance (which is generally making things as least challenging as they can possibly become but that can be the result of a challenge).
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Yes that is a common mistake but not quite the same thing as knowing that you know more about subject X than someone else.
Fighting l33t since 1974
Don't "lol"! Laugh!
Sanity Inc
@8Qbit
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arrow keys
[/ QUOTE ]Ah, that explains a lot of things.
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How?
The M.A.D. Files - Me talking about games, films, games, life, games, internet and games
I'm not good at giving advice, can I interest you in a sarcastic comment?
@Lyrik