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One thing that I don't understand is why most good pvp-players seem to be on the hero side in Sirens.. I laid off playing my blaster in Sirens cause it was too easy to get kills. With my stalker it actually requires some skill. I wish the good players would come up with more good villain builds, and for a change something else than stalkers.
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I know i suck terribly 
seriously I do know what you mean. There are very few that play good squishy non stalker builds (on defiant), why is that? Maybe you can answer that question. due to FoTM on heroes side? Is it because people can't deal with being squishy and not dealing over the top high dmg? It just makes me wonder as you see a lot of people saying they like challenges. I can't find anything more challenging then playing a squishy tbh.
To the OP like they all said, bad days will happen. Best thing to do is to either just leave or try again later if one side is to overwhelming and you know you will get frustrated easily. I used to stick around when outnumbered but the new tactical start if you wanna call it that just takes the fun out of going against overwhelming odds.
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Well, rule #1 in PvP is not to have fun...its to ub4h r0xx0r pwn your enemy into smitheries and then go to your homies and say "d00d...I totally g4nked dat n00b"
/sarcasm_off
Seriously.....thats how alot of people are when it comes to PvP...wherever you go...sadly.
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Dude i think thats alitle harsh. More times than not i notice that the people who are screaming "illl pwn j0o you n00b" is the people getting kill,not the killers, people getting overly frustrated by the fact that someone has found a way to kill them. Like in the RV event i was killing certain people when they killed me, i got " ha n00b" just brush it off. If your polite more times than not you wilget people say nice fight, or "damn you and your phase shift i was so close to killing you! n00b lol" (which was followed by something like "damn how fast are your reflexes!" when i phased again lol) as a joke.
And IMO ganking isn't helping a teammate not die when there being attacked or even helping a teammate attack its called team work. GAnking is when four stalkers chase one guy all night long.
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I know i suck terribly seriously I do know what you mean. There are very few that play good squishy non stalker builds (on defiant), why is that? Maybe you can answer that question. due to FoTM on heroes side? Is it because people can't deal with being squishy and not dealing over the top high dmg? It just makes me wonder as you see a lot of people saying they like challenges. I can't find anything more challenging then playing a squishy tbh.
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Yeah, and particularly villain squishy as I consider them to be much harder to get working both solo and team.
Unfortunately Im a person with little time to the game and Im a very slow lvller.. (being in game since february 2005 and I only got one lvl 50) I AM going to come up with other villains when I get the chance.. But I'm slow 
I like RV, a few days ago lads of villains were spawing the heroes (statesman) and all killing them for badges. it was goin fine till loads of scrappers turned up
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Only suggestion I can give, is when you go to a PvP zone, an all-stalker team isnt as effective as it looks, cause a decent balanced hero team will kick your [censored] with relative ease.
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Definately. You want some buffers/debuffers/mezzers on the team. Any decent mixed hero team can destroy a team of Stalkers.
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Just as a team of good villains can kill the opposing balanced hero team 
(note, im not trying to counter your argument, rather than point out that its down to peoples playing skills rather than builds always)
Personally I think that its the villains who are having trouble in the zones currently, which is why I play that side when I get the chance. Playing heroes is too easy atm.
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Oh definately, a good team on either side can do very well. It's just a pity that it rarely happens on both sides at the same time.
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BTW, I'm not trying to get you to go back and try again. I dislike the PvP Zones, as I dislike any form of PvP which encourages people to be pillocks in game. And this kind of Zone does just that.
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Maybe I've been incredibly lucky but the majority of people I've met in PvP haven't been pillocks.
My first experience of PvP was bad. I took my Dark/Kin Corruptor into Warburg in search of nukes. I met a friendly Mastermind and asked him what to do. He was very helpful. A short while and several ASes later I was feeling a little peaved, but I got lucky. I realised that Tactics and Accuracy Inspirations weren't spotting them, so I was running double accuracies (and burning through them damn fast). I spotted an approaching stalker. I'd figured out that generally they waited for me to engage mobs before openning up on me, so I opened with Fullcrum shift and Blackstar. I dont think the poor stalker knew what hit him. Shortly after that I started being ganked by a large group of stalkers..he'd brought his mates.
Since then my experiences have been much better. I met some friendly duelers with my Corruptor, and had a fun afternoon dueling with my corruptor (who turns out to be pathetic in PvP, even though he got lucky with that Stalker). Then a few days latter I had real fun PvPing between my Claws/Regen Scrapper and a Martial Arts stalker. He always got the AS in, but then I came back fast. Neither of us managed to take the other down, but it was a lot of fun.
The best PvP experiences I've had though have definately been team based though. I enjoyed playing part of an eight man team getting our Nukes in Warburg, whilst four stalkers tried to make things difficult (we had enough overlapping +per powers that we got to see them, but only seconds before they took out a squishy, so we were all watching each other to defend our doms and corrs). I've also enjoyed playing as part of a team in Siren's when things were close to balanced.
I had one really bad day, where I got one fluky kill in, but died to stalkers something like a dozen times. Since then its all been good.
Many of the opponents I've faced have been great sports. The other day, together with another stalker, we took on a controller and a fire Tank. It was great fun, and at the end I congratulated the Tanker on how well he'd protected his squishier friend, and how effective his firey aura was. He seemed pleased to talk, and we thanked him for a great time
Overall I much prefer PvE, but PvP is a nice diversion. I have learnt the hardway that a solitary Corruptor (or any other squishy without an AoE field/aura) in Warburg is suicide, but other than that its been reasonably balanced. CoX PvP is definately better in teams though.
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Im interested to know how you came to that conclusion RW? Shed some light?
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Only just noticed this, probably too late to reply really, but...
What little actual PvP experience I have in CoX would appear to imply that I can either beat something, or not, which tends to support your view.
However, from what I read, the majority seem to think it's RPS, and from a set of arena duels I witnessed recently, I'd have to say it's biased, but not a certainty, especially when you take into account that Cryptic have explicitly not balanced the game for one-on-one combat. As soon as you start mixing other ATs in, you start getting closer to RPS (I'd imagine).
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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Maybe I've been incredibly lucky but the majority of people I've met in PvP haven't been pillocks.
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You have, indeed, been lucky.
Bare in mind that (even though I'm not one) I tend to look at PvP from a GM's perspective, because I spent two years running a server which allowed PvP, but not griefing.
Now, to be honest, despite not really being a PvP server, we had quite a large group at times who came there to smash heads in the arena (which you could more consider as a PvP Zone, I guess). I'd look in from time to time to make sure they weren't up to anything (as I did with everyone else) and generally the duelling was good-natured. Sometimes it wasn't.
So the PvPers who regularly used the server were generally fairly good people, like the majority of PvPers, and like the people you've met. I don't deny it, and don't think I ever have.
Unfortunately, what colours the perception are the ones who trash talk constantly (and generally beyond 'friendly banter'), the ones who come into a server with the intention of doing nothing other than killing PCs, repeatedly, and (best of all) the ones who actually form a raiding party with the intention of wiping out all life on the server and taking it over.
That's just in one game (Neverwinter Nights).
Now, I don't like people like that because their purpose is to take away other people's enjoyment of a game. In some games they may get 'phat loot' from killing other PCs, and that gives them an excuse, but their nature really shows up when all they get is bragging rights. And they are bragging about killing something that stood no chance against them. That's just sad.
Anyway, we return you to your regular, scheduled PvPers...
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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I like RV, a few days ago lads of villains were spawing the heroes (statesman) and all killing them for badges. it was goin fine till loads of scrappers turned up
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The Villians were doing that earlier this morning 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Not really, but PvP in CoX is largely rock, paper, scissors, and a bit of talent.
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Im interested to know how you came to that conclusion RW? Shed some light?
Most PvP systems in MMO try to work on a Rock, Paper, Scissors approach. An approach which WoW manage extremely well. So grats to them. However, with CoH, its very easy put builds in 2 camps. PvP capable, and PvE.
Its my experience that in CoH/CoV there are Uber PvP builds that can cope with 99% of other ATs. Leading to imbalance etc. Which leads to dev nerfage.
Follow FOTM's for example.
EM Stalkers
Spines/Regen
FOTM's from some time ago:
Blappers
Illusion/Kin trollers.
Rock, Paper and Scissors is a CoX utopia and always will be since the game is primarily designed for PvE. Devs may have other impressions about their achievements. To them i say - Go try WoW.
And this isnt out of frustration. I have PvP capable toons. I'm just not very good with them. I enjoy PvP when im winning or losing. (within reason...!) Neither is it out of a Fanboy love for WoW. I cant play that game anymore - bores the pointy bits off me. Certainly CoX devs could learn some tricks from it though.
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As always when discussing PvP in CoH/CoV, I think its important to distinguish between solo/1v1 PvP and team PvP.
There are some combinations of Power Sets in some ATs that are weak in solo/1v1 PvP. I do not personally believe that there are any that are not capable of being very useful and effective in team PvP.
Likewise, while there are some advantages to 'PvP builds', it's not been my experience that I need to dedicate a character to PvP in order to have fun with the occasional jaunt into one of the PvP zones. None of my characters have what I think of as 'PvP builds', but I've enjoyed playing all of them in PvP. Even if I do die a lot.
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Look, my team of rabid PvP Empaths! A gaggle of Brutes! Charge them down!
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Actually, I've always wanted to see how an organised team of Empaths would do in PvP.
With stacked Fortitudes, Recovery Auras and Regeneration Auras along with Clear Minds and Adrenalin Boosts on tap and (of course) huge amounts of healing, I think they could be pretty nasty...
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Im interested to know how you came to that conclusion RW? Shed some light?
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Only just noticed this, probably too late to reply really, but...
What little actual PvP experience I have in CoX would appear to imply that I can either beat something, or not, which tends to support your view.
However, from what I read, the majority seem to think it's RPS, and from a set of arena duels I witnessed recently, I'd have to say it's biased, but not a certainty, especially when you take into account that Cryptic have explicitly not balanced the game for one-on-one combat. As soon as you start mixing other ATs in, you start getting closer to RPS (I'd imagine).
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Agree that team pvp 'can' be RPS, but it becomes far too complicated to debate. In my opinion the building blocks, i.e the characters making up the team should be balanced to truely allow team pvp to be balanced.
As it stands, the effectiveness of certain builds still shines through in team games.
Regarding RPS, i dont like that terminology in general with CoH. Statistically RPS should allow 33% Win, 33% Lose, 33% Draw. Which in WoW translates to , 33% Easy Wins, 33% Lose (by default), 33% Tough fights (My Experience with Rogues; Easy vs Mages, Fun Fight vs Druids, Shamans, Warriors and Other Rogues, Hellish time vs Priests, Palas and Warlocks.).
CoH has something WoW doesnt have. CoH has builds that provide PvP tools that can yield 90% Win, 5% Lose, 5% Draw.
I think CoX devs need to think hard about 2 things.
1)Movement - Travel powers screw RPS big time. A Ranged glass cannon cannot do the 'cannon' part if he has no means of kiting. The strange thing about this point is that the build offered the best means of kiting is a spines scrapper! Someone reliant on being melee.
2) Damage Scalars in PvP. Stalkers dictate under the current format that the PvP damage is near 1 shot capabilities. This does not promote a skilled fight. When people are using 2-3 attacks to succeed in a pvp fight that lasts 5 seconds its not really too exciting. (Not aimed soley at Stalkers.)
In WoW, as a rogue, i had to use at least 8-9 different abilities to take down most targets. Even with an Ambush out ot stealth on a cloth target, I would still need to follow up with a decent stun lock or be feared, sheeped or immobilised. Against a warrior we are talking serious skill. Poison both blades with crippling, open with cheap shot, back stab, sinister strike, Rupture, move outside melee range, but within charge range, reenter stealth (5 seconds without attacking), watch for battle shout, cheap shot, backstab, sinister strike, kidney shot, vanish, garrote, sprint out and wait for warrior to drop. Now, i only won 50% of my fights with warriors, because managing that kind of an attack chain, which is necessary to negate the high armour values of warriors, was never easy.
Oh, wait, im in CoH now, Build Up, Aim, Blazing Bolt, Blaze, Target down. Next! <Insert variety of other examples here>
I just dont think that when fights last so little time, there is much room for skill at all. If fights were longer, we might have to think about attack chains. As it stands, Jousts attack chain doesnt come into play unless fighting a tanker/brute. Even then its not a chain which required much thought, it was a necessary use of all my damage powers to put a dent in their HP. Not much skill in hitting powers the second they recharge.
So, a proposal, reduce the damage in PvP accross the board. Forcing more attacks to be used and proper attack chains! And no, this isnt prodding stalkers with a sharp stick! Forces these guys to use placate and actually use a sensible attack chain too. Whats more, if you take near 1 shotting ASing off them, you could afford to give them back high -perception power! If that wasn't acceptable, they have the option of playing a bit with base resistance levels accross the board. Allowing for the unresistable component of an AS to still shine.
Anyway. Just dont think CoX has PVP down at all well atm. Still enjoy it tho - in a simple kind of way.
Sorry, very OT I guess. To the OP - sucks that you got ganked, most of the time a broadcast chat should resolve. Just watch you dont get ASed while typing tho!
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Only suggestion I can give, is when you go to a PvP zone, an all-stalker team isnt as effective as it looks, cause a decent balanced hero team will kick your [censored] with relative ease.
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Definately. You want some buffers/debuffers/mezzers on the team. Any decent mixed hero team can destroy a team of Stalkers.
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Just as a team of good villains can kill the opposing balanced hero team (note, im not trying to counter your argument, rather than point out that its down to peoples playing skills rather than builds always)
Personally I think that its the villains who are having trouble in the zones currently, which is why I play that side when I get the chance. Playing heroes is too easy atm.
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Oh definately, a good team on either side can do very well. It's just a pity that it rarely happens on both sides at the same time.
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PVP teams are near impossible to build, I'd like to see a change in the search function, a new flag which says you would consider a pvp team.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
How to make a good team for PvP.
1-3 damage dealers -Offensive guys, (Blasters/trollers)
0-1 Damage/taunt -Support/attackers (scrappers/tanks/rad) defenders
4-6 buffers/healers - Support units.(defenders/trollers)
Go with this and its always good.
What and what isnt support.
Rad defenders are semi offence, dark defenders are semi offense. These dont count towards support.
Kinetics, empaths, bubblers, sonics are support. The best is one of all, and if you fill out support with the same kind it also gets bad. You should prefer this setup. 1 kin, 1 emp, 1 sonic, 1 bubbler. If you add more it doesnt matter which one.
If the kin, emp or sonic doesnt have his buffs, he doesnt count towards support.
A team make like this one will beat the [censored] out of any spines scrapper, ice/nrg blaster, ice/nrg tank, nrg/ stalker or any other FotM, if people do their part. Eg. buffers buff, healers heal, blasters kill. It doesnt matter much what primary and secondary the different AT's (-support).
A Paragon Defender
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Look, my team of rabid PvP Empaths! A gaggle of Brutes! Charge them down!
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Actually, I've always wanted to see how an organised team of Empaths would do in PvP.
With stacked Fortitudes, Recovery Auras and Regeneration Auras along with Clear Minds and Adrenalin Boosts on tap and (of course) huge amounts of healing, I think they could be pretty nasty...
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8 man empath team would be very nasty, still lacking some damage output i fear, but the organisation required to make it work is the biggest problem. Love to try though as its about time Chaplain actually scored a kill! Hes been face down in SC and the Arena more times than i care to remember.
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Look, my team of rabid PvP Empaths! A gaggle of Brutes! Charge them down!
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Actually, I've always wanted to see how an organised team of Empaths would do in PvP.
With stacked Fortitudes, Recovery Auras and Regeneration Auras along with Clear Minds and Adrenalin Boosts on tap and (of course) huge amounts of healing, I think they could be pretty nasty...
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Bah, now I'm seriously wondering how good it'd be - wish someone had mentioned this before the RV event - perfect testing opportunity!
DON'T eat muffins while I'm developing you.
Pants! Turkey Magnates! A man in a box! Rogue AI! Come one, come all, to arc ID 10107 - It's [i]'Not as long as some other arcs'[/i]!
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8 man empath team would be very nasty, still lacking some damage output i fear, but the organisation required to make it work is the biggest problem. Love to try though as its about time Chaplain actually scored a kill! Hes been face down in SC and the Arena more times than i care to remember.
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If I tried this, I think I'd want to stack Assault as well - assuming everyone's Fort had three recharge, and everyone was perma-AB'd, I'd suspect 3-4 Fortitudes on every empath in the team - Amazing defense, accuracy, and possibly damage output permanently close to cap...unlimited perception and complete mez immunity (I defy anyone to overcome 7 stacked CM's). Crikey.
The clincher is the organisation, of course, knowing who to buff up...
Edit: Wonder if any wilf incarnations on test have a respec remaining...
DON'T eat muffins while I'm developing you.
Pants! Turkey Magnates! A man in a box! Rogue AI! Come one, come all, to arc ID 10107 - It's [i]'Not as long as some other arcs'[/i]!
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Actually, I've always wanted to see how an organised team of Empaths would do in PvP.
With stacked Fortitudes, Recovery Auras and Regeneration Auras along with Clear Minds and Adrenalin Boosts on tap and (of course) huge amounts of healing, I think they could be pretty nasty...
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It would be incredibly difficult to defeat, especially if all of them had power mastery and were fighting at level 50.
Power boosted AB and recovery aura recovers end even after nuking, so all it would take is a little coordination.
Im not sure I even want to see the regen rate of 8 power boosted regen auras, and AB on each person.. 
Jupiter is slow looking into his notebook, but he always looks.
The [b]Retribution[/b] is coming.
[url="http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/Valens_ii/"]Some of my toons[/url]
hm sounds a bit like regen blasters indeed I think they'll be VERY nasty to take down, and about organizing, I'd reckon you just pick a partner to keep buffin.
"god, how many devs did hami have to sleep with to get ED?"
Total Cat @Stagefright
Damn, Now I want to lvl my ill/empath again :S Or even roll an emp defender.
My MA IDs:
Fiend Space: 211464
Had a brilliant Empath standing behind us in our last 3vP match. Talk about god mode, myself and Anath were basically immortal.
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a large (more than 8) group of villains was base camping the heroes in Sirens. So we got a team together (only 6 of us). Buffed up, charged out, annhilated the villains. Who then accused us of ganking (this is the same people who'd been TPing any hero who stepped out of the hospital). Even though we were outnumbered.
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Aww man, this always cracks me up. Those people running on Broadcast after a tussle stating "I can so definately pwn you, you noob"
The reply? "i'm still standing here waiting for you to leave the base and pummel me 
"
OR the classic,
"Dude, I would so pwn the living bejesus out of you if it wasn't for the fact you actually use your powerset....." You get the idea and I'm still lmao in PvP thx to big mouthed players
"Like War_Hero said, leave it as it is, it toughens up the softies." - Naz Nomad
Union Heroes
War Borg - Leader of The Paragon Knights
Union Villains
McCabe - Co-leader of The Rogue Knights
Defiant - Supreme Hero
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I turned up villain compound turned all toggles on (SR secondary) flew up to compound to see a bunch of heroes camped there basically waiting to gank anyone who came out. Hovering hidden by by the wall it took all of 5 seconds for the first thrown spines to hit and knock me to the floor. Ok fine I though they can obvious see through my hide and got lucky shot SR is really quite good in PvE so must provide some defence in PvP, err no, 5 seconds later I found myself teleported into the midst of the heroes gank zone and blam dead.
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This happened my pal in RV last night (lvl 41), 8-10 hero's waiting to ambush villians coming into zones, this was his first visit to RV and walked straight out and got faceplanted. Being the eternal optimist he thought about what to to tatic wise and decided to come out slowly in the safety zone and TP the heros (lvl 50) under the protector bots, placate then get a critical strike in and the protector bots had them down in 2-3 secs the protector bots.
He did this on about 8 of them then they started to call him a cheat and a lot of other abuse which he laughed off (in his own way). Thought it was funny them calling him a cheat when they where camping out waiting for unsuspecting villians. They soon cleared off home.
Shows you that with the right tactics you can get round almost anything.
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In my opinion the building blocks, i.e the characters making up the team should be balanced to truely allow team pvp to be balanced.
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And, in my opinion, that's impossible. How do you balance an empath defender so that they can stand one-on-one against, say, a regen scrapper? I'd imagine it's possible, but I think I'd hate the resulting toons. There would really be no point in selecting an AT.
While I personally find arena duels with friends quite amusing, I'd have to agree with Cryptic here, there's little or no point in balancing every AT/powerset/pool combination against the others. Better to set it up so that a team is balanced against another team. Not saying they've got it right, pretty sure they haven't, but that should be the aim.
I do see one flaw in this, and that seems to be that your stereotypical PvPer is not really a team player. Some operate in gangs, but not teams. I think this comes out best in the threads where people are complaining of being 'interfered with' while duelling in the PvP Zones. Even in situations where teaming would be the best idea, these guys want to fight one-on-one.
Also, I think Cryptic may be rather too fixed on the Pentad Combat school of PvP. I wonder how much balancing goes on for other types of teams. And it's always said that duelling isn't really catered for, but how big a team is catered for? What about slightly unbalanced team numbers?
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
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(note, im not trying to counter your argument, rather than point out that its down to peoples playing skills rather than builds always)
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Only suggestion I can give, is when you go to a PvP zone, an all-stalker team isnt as effective as it looks, cause a decent balanced hero team will kick your [censored] with relative ease.
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Definately. You want some buffers/debuffers/mezzers on the team. Any decent mixed hero team can destroy a team of Stalkers.
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Just as a team of good villains can kill the opposing balanced hero team
Personally I think that its the villains who are having trouble in the zones currently, which is why I play that side when I get the chance. Playing heroes is too easy atm.