[ QUOTE ]
anyone remeber jack emmert and how people disliked him because he made the game into his vision rather then giving players what they wanted?
[/ QUOTE ]silly question, yes we remember jack, he gets brought up on a fairly regular basis. People are not always rational, jack made good decisions and bad ones, just like any game developer, some people nurse their spite about the bad ones and ignore the good ones, their loss, but with that attitude, far from the only one in their lives.
The decisions made in the game are the developers, because its their jobs that are gone if they implement bad features, at times it appears that they have recognized good ideas put forth by the playerbase and implemented them, many other times they realized the poster was out of their skull and completely ignored them and other times the idea is good but just doesnt fit. Every developer has a vision, dont kid yourself, its jsut up to you wether your vision meets theirs or not.
rian, I really hope you change your name back before the cutoff and switch to vBulletin. You're just not as fancy with this one!
[ QUOTE ]
If only there was a name for this sort of thing...
[/ QUOTE ]Hah! Joke's on you! I was only stuck there for an hour! 
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
[ QUOTE ]
Nonsense.
If I say "Stalin was a murderer who killed millions of Russians", there is no hate involved, it's a simple statement of fact.
[/ QUOTE ]
So, context has no influence on whether the statement is carrying any emotional baggage? Delivery has no effect? Really?
I guess that's why I'm the only person in this thread who thinks the OP might have brought it up for some reason above and beyond reporting the facts that at least one person was angry at Jack for not acceding to their wishes. Too many dogs and too few bell-ringers in the audience, I guess.
The game is owned by NCsoft. No matter what the vision is, or who has it, if the plug has to be pulled or kept plugged in, it's all decided by the NCsoft board of directors.
Plain and simple.
Even if we had 10,000,000 subscribers, the game is still owned by NCsoft. They could pull the plug on it even if it were making money.
The vision you want to compare, be it Posi's, Emmert's, or even your own are never perfect. There is NOTHING that's perfect. What's enjoyable to some might be hated by the majority. Know what? Deal with it or get out.
Games change, stories evolve... visions are seen in more ways that just the person that makes them a reality.
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it till I'm blue in the face:
If you can not adapt to the changes then you deserve to fail. Evolution happens, whether you like it or not. You either adapt or become a nameless, forgotten soul.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
It's =my= game. People say so all the time.
Girlfriend: Off to play your game now?
Friend: What'd you do in your game last night?
Co-worker: You're always talking about your game when I'm trying to work!
Boss: You wouldn't be in here if you did your work and didn't talk about your game all day.
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
[ QUOTE ]
The game belongs to the Devs. They can do with it as they please. We pay them money to rent the game from them. It's within their best interest to make choices that will increase the number of rentors rather than decrease that number, so players do have some effect upon it, but the game is not, nor will it ever be, the players'.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is my game. Posi lost it in a poker game. I tried to get Ms Liberty an Sister Psyche in a strip poker game but they were busy standing around.
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
anyone remeber jack emmert and how people disliked him because he made the game into his vision rather then giving players what they wanted?
[/ QUOTE ]silly question, yes we remember jack, he gets brought up on a fairly regular basis. People are not always rational, jack made good decisions and bad ones, just like any game developer, some people nurse their spite about the bad ones and ignore the good ones, their loss, but with that attitude, far from the only one in their lives.
The decisions made in the game are the developers, because its their jobs that are gone if they implement bad features, at times it appears that they have recognized good ideas put forth by the playerbase and implemented them, many other times they realized the poster was out of their skull and completely ignored them and other times the idea is good but just doesnt fit. Every developer has a vision, dont kid yourself, its jsut up to you wether your vision meets theirs or not.
[/ QUOTE ]
I blame Jack for the incredible pony shortage in Paragon City. Damn him to heck!!!!!
Lots of 50's yada yada. still finding fun things to do.
Cthulhu loves you, better start running
I�! I�! Gg�gorsch�a�bha egurtsa�ar�ug d� Dalhor! Cthluhu fthagn! Cthluhu fthagn!
You are in a maze of twisty little passages
[ QUOTE ]
It's =my= game. People say so all the time.
Girlfriend: Off to play your game now?
Friend: What'd you do in your game last night?
Co-worker: You're always talking about your game when I'm trying to work!
Boss: You wouldn't be in here if you did your work and didn't talk about your game all day.
--NT
[/ QUOTE ]
You win the thread.
On Guardian!
Mike Halo
& a few dozen others.
Our SG: Stars of Paragon
Fiction: Training Day
[ QUOTE ]
In fact, there are a number of examples of art that have expanded so far beyond their creators that they have become integral parts of our greater pop culture for example: [snip]...and the music of Queen.
[/ QUOTE ]
[pardon the threadjack] Kudos to you, sir. This cannot be said enough times. A freaky British wierdo from Zanzibar has taken over the musical world!! All Hail Freddie! 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Mercury
Now back to our regularly scheduled CoX banter.
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
(QR)
On topic: It's the devs' game, but it serves them well fiscally to try and give the players what they want within reason.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
On topic: The devs produce a product. It is up to them to make it the product that the customers want to purchase, and to continue to purchase.
Ownership is 'irrelevant'. If the Devs make a product they like and no one else likes, great for them, but... no money.
If the devs make a perfect product, but it costs more than they can charge, they go bankrupt, and... no game.
So, like all things, it is a balancing act. And as long as the devs continue to interest us with things like new releases and new features, and they keep costs under control, the game goes on.
This is pretty basic economics.
When I play, the character is 'mine' in the sense that in my mind, it can be anything I want... kind of like a character in a book, where the author has no final control over your interpretation. So using my imagination, my characters take on a life that even the devs, in all their grandeur, will never match... but I like the parts they have a handle on aok so far.
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
anyone remeber jack emmert and how people disliked him because he made the game into his vision rather then giving players what they wanted?
[/ QUOTE ]
For the most part, I think Jack's problem wasn't in the "vision" but in the delivery of information about the "vision". Jack isn't really much of a people person.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, the vision really sucked.
[/ QUOTE ]Which is why you kept playing.
His vision never bothered me because I was too busy playing the game. Same with ED, I never got mad because it never messed with the way I play. I think the forums is what blows things out of proportions.
And the Award for Best Quote To Take Out Of Context This Week is.......
[ QUOTE ]
Same with ED, I never got mad because it never messed with the way I play.
[/ QUOTE ]
Congratulations!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's =my= game. People say so all the time.
Girlfriend: Off to play your game now?
Friend: What'd you do in your game last night?
Co-worker: You're always talking about your game when I'm trying to work!
Boss: You wouldn't be in here if you did your work and didn't talk about your game all day.
--NT
[/ QUOTE ]
You win the thread.
[/ QUOTE ]This is my country. People over the pond ask me when I'm going back to my country. In =my= country, I get arrested for beating a man with a pool cue until he has detached retinas. This is =my= country, yet higher ups still decided what is what.
Also, when will we get the pool cue powerset?
[ QUOTE ]
And the Award for Best Quote To Take Out Of Context This Week is.......
[ QUOTE ]
Same with ED, I never got mad because it never messed with the way I play.
[/ QUOTE ]
Congratulations!
[/ QUOTE ]Now VD on the other hand....
[ QUOTE ]
The game is owned by NCsoft. No matter what the vision is, or who has it, if the plug has to be pulled or kept plugged in, it's all decided by the NCsoft board of directors.
Plain and simple.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is the most true. In any company like this, the developers are often trumped by the board. They are limited by their time and resources.
[ QUOTE ]
So, in a strictly economic sense, the game legally belongs to the company and developers who created it, but in a greater cultural sense, the game belongs to all of us and needs us to thrive.
[/ QUOTE ]
But the issue also arises insofar as who actually has control over the game. We cannot force any changes to canon, even if they be incredibly popular because the game world is in the control of the devs. We cannot force any changes to the game system, even if they be needed for balance and more streamlined gameplay. All that the players control is how the game operates outside of the actual gaming environment. Players have a modicum of control over whether the game continues to exist, but they have no direct control over what happens within the game outside of their own character (and even then it's only so limited because the devs' control the story and how it affects the world).
The entire debate is then based around what you think "control" means within this context. If you mean "control" from within a context of "to set the comparative effectiveness of powers and set the canon story", the game is entirely within the control of the devs. If you mean "control" from within a context of "making the game fun/playable/etc", the control is split between the devs and the players. The players will make the game playable and fun by simply being their to interact with other people (re: putting the "multiplayer" in "MMORPG"), but the devs still have the ability to affect that fun by altering powers and gameplay.
Personally, I view the player-dev relationship in any MMO the same way I view the PC-GM relationship in PnP games. I can do all the game design in the world, and it won't make my game fun if I don't have any players. My enjoyment is contingent on the joy I instill in others. In that way, even though it's my game because I designed the world, created the storyline, and am the final arbiter in all things, it's the player's game because they're the ones actually making the storyline live and making the game actually get played.
[ QUOTE ]
this is one of teh questions i have had for a long time, dev all have there "vision" of what the game should be. player pay for the game so they want what they think the game should be, to be.
so is the game
for the dev vision of the game
or
for the players vision of the game
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
anyone remeber jack emmert and how people disliked him because he made the game into his vision rather then giving players what they wanted?
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you just troll yourself? 
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
[ QUOTE ]
It's =my= game. People say so all the time.
Girlfriend: Off to play your game now?
Friend: What'd you do in your game last night?
Co-worker: You're always talking about your game when I'm trying to work!
Boss: You wouldn't be in here if you did your work and didn't talk about your game all day.
--NT
[/ QUOTE ]
ROFL
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
<QR> This thread started out as mostly an offense against basic grammar and spelling rules, but then it rapidly degenerated into being mostly literate, cogent posts. Stop that!
Incidentally, the answer to the OP is 'yes, to varying degrees.'
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
[ QUOTE ]
for the dev vision of the game
or
for the players vision of the game
[/ QUOTE ]
It really needs to be a balance of the two.
-
The DEVs need to have their "vision" of the game in order to be able to explore their own creativity, to keep it balanced, and to keep it profitable.
(I see basic functionality being thrown out the window sometimes when it really needs to be one of the number one priorities. At least a smoothly functioning game should be part of the DEVs "vision", but I'm a player making this point...so....)
-
The DEVs do need to be cognizant of players visions of the game.
The problem here is which players visions of the game. There are many more of us than there are of them and each of us has our own vision of what the game should be.
This imposes a daunting task balancing the DEVs "vision" (see above) while trying to incorporate ideas that are sought by a majority of players that help to achieve the DEVs "vision" goals.
-
By giving us the MA, we have been given a great opportunity to make the game what we want it to be. After all, "content" is what the game is about - and that is all the "MA" is about.
At the same time, the MA must perform within the DEVs "vision". This includes it not being abused to the point that it means less profitability and impedes the longevity of the game.
[ QUOTE ]
i think that the game is more 45% player 55% devs.
[/ QUOTE ]
If it makes you feel better to think this, go for it.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project