Architect Entertainment Utility: "Switches"

Sigium · 05-20-2009 09:04 AM

Switches are a term I used when I'd fiddle with those old RPG-Maker programs, so please bear with me. I'm not about to say I know if they would be easy/difficult to code.

Switches were basically differentiations in plot that could revolutionize the Mission Architect system if used properly. I'm unable to explain them properly, but let me give you a bit of an example...

1.
- There is a mission with a boss, and an optional sub-boss.
- You defeat the boss required for the mission, and exit.
- The contact thanks you normally.
"Thank you for defeating Lord Sinister! Our race can now hope to survive in this cold, new world."

2.
- The same mission.
- You defeat the boss, and then defeat the sub-boss.
--- This sub-boss activates Switch 01.
- The contact is programmed to say, upon Switch 01 being activated, something extra.
"Thank you for defeating Lord Sinister! Our race can now hope to survive in this cold, new world.
And thank you for defeating his lieutenant, Commander Pain! Surely, it will double our chances of survival, knowing there's no immediate replacement!"

Now, this seems a bit difficult, I realize... How would it work? I'd like to think that it would work something like this:

[If. Switch01=ON] I'm saying this if Switch 01 is on![/Switch01]
[If. Switch02=ON] I'm saying this if Switch 02 is on![/Switch02]
[If. Switch01=OFF] I'll say this if Switch 01 is off![/Switch01]

Switches would be able to be assigned in the advanced goals for a mission. There would be a maximum of say... 20 per arc? They would carry over between missions, so... Let's say you saved the damsel in the first mission, so her father would be grateful in the next. The switch for the optional rescue is carried over, so when the father is spoken to, he'll acknowledge the daring rescue.

But wait! Imagine if you could have entirely separate goals for different switches? Have certain mission goals only available depending on the position of the switches.
Imagine one mission where you're saving your ally's sister. If you succeed, in the next mission, you'll have to escort your ally out. If you fail, he'll turn on you when you get to the door.

Switches are a relatively simple mechanic in theory. I won't claim to say they're simple to implement, but I think this would add SO much more potential depth.

CapnGeist · 05-20-2009 12:00 PM

I'm in favor of this, and let's up it. Let's say you can have mission 4 be entirely different depending on whether or not Mission 3 was successful or not. I'd really like to be able to make a "branching" storyline.

NPCs: A Single Method to Greatly Expand Bases

MunkiLord · 05-20-2009 12:02 PM

/signed. That would be awesome.

Sigium · 05-20-2009 12:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm in favor of this, and let's up it. Let's say you can have mission 4 be entirely different depending on whether or not Mission 3 was successful or not. I'd really like to be able to make a "branching" storyline.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct.

Granted, I DO see a lot of development issues with this. I feel that this would be something reserved for the highly-advanced stages of development. I'd like to keep it just as mission goals, and text at this point.

boardthug · 05-20-2009 12:13 PM

I love the idea, but the devs that write content for the game don't have access to this function so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Sigium · 05-20-2009 12:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I love the idea, but the devs that write content for the game don't have access to this function so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you know this... How?

LordXenite · 05-20-2009 12:20 PM

/signed but I too wouldn't hold my breath, there's a lot of work to be done on other AE sub-systems before this even gets to go to the bottom of the barrel for the design-queue.

I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati

Memphis_Bill · 05-20-2009 12:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love the idea, but the devs that write content for the game don't have access to this function so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you know this... How?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it doesn't do it now. more properly, I suppose, they *have not had* access to the function. Whether they've come up with it and do internally now is anyone's guess.

That said... yeah, I'd love to see it. It'd play havoc with some of the near-limit arcs that get made, but it'd still be interesting.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Ullikummis · 05-20-2009 12:36 PM

*eats 100 cookies to show support for this idea*

That blue thing running around saying "Cookies are sometimes food" is Praetorian Cookie Monster!
Shoot on sight, please.

Sigium · 05-20-2009 12:47 PM

I understand, Bill, however absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence.

Honestly? I think that the developers would need to do a lot of revamping the arcs, but on terms of space? I think that it would just mean adding in more objectives to counteract the switching going on.

For instance, mission one switches on a switch for an optional objective.
Mission two now needs two different outcomes; one for on, and one for off.
There may need to be some extra dialog present, as well, to work for it.

But you see, it's not like it's going to take up tons more... Just a bit restraining to those reaching the limits.

Memphis_Bill · 05-20-2009 12:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I understand, Bill, however absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence.[ QUOTE ]

"Whether they've come up with it and do internally now is anyone's guess. " I know.

[ QUOTE ]

Honestly? I think that the developers would need to do a lot of revamping the arcs, but on terms of space? I think that it would just mean adding in more objectives to counteract the switching going on.

For instance, mission one switches on a switch for an optional objective.
Mission two now needs two different outcomes; one for on, and one for off.
There may need to be some extra dialog present, as well, to work for it.

But you see, it's not like it's going to take up tons more... Just a bit restraining to those reaching the limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, and it's that last sentence I was pointing out. I don't think it'd be an issue on any of my arcs, for instance - I'm rather cautious with custom mobs.

Heck, if it could lead to a separate *mission* depending on success or failure, I'd be even happier. >.> but that's a bit more out there on the wish list.

See my Guides and Tutorials

LordXenite · 05-20-2009 01:00 PM

First, you gotta design and implement it in the core-story in-game engine. Then, you have to modify the AE story-arc editor, then there's cycles upon cycles of internal testing, then beta testing, both closed and open... so maybe we'll see this in the Future, but it's definitely not coming Soon...

I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati

Sigium · 05-20-2009 01:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand, Bill, however absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence.[ QUOTE ]

"Whether they've come up with it and do internally now is anyone's guess. " I know.

[ QUOTE ]

Honestly? I think that the developers would need to do a lot of revamping the arcs, but on terms of space? I think that it would just mean adding in more objectives to counteract the switching going on.

For instance, mission one switches on a switch for an optional objective.
Mission two now needs two different outcomes; one for on, and one for off.
There may need to be some extra dialog present, as well, to work for it.

But you see, it's not like it's going to take up tons more... Just a bit restraining to those reaching the limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, and it's that last sentence I was pointing out. I don't think it'd be an issue on any of my arcs, for instance - I'm rather cautious with custom mobs.

Heck, if it could lead to a separate *mission* depending on success or failure, I'd be even happier. >.> but that's a bit more out there on the wish list.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, consider this... If you could modify ALL of the objectives of a mission, and maybe even the mission title, isn't that a separate mission in a sense? How many would tell the difference?

I know, it's not THE SAME, but again, one step at a time.

konshu · 05-20-2009 01:05 PM

I like the idea of adding switches, but I foresee one possible problem with it, and that is if we add switching to our contact dialog it will take up SIGNIFICANTLY more space. Not only will we have to insert the coding for the conditional switches (say, 20 characters per switch?), but we'll have to add the optional text as well.

Of course, how a person uses the conditional logic is up to them, and you always have to work within some sort of limitations anyway.

Also, conditional switches would be great for inserting more dynamic game play into missions. Not only could dialog be affected, but also potentially ambushes, patrols, and so on.

... And these would take up even more memory, but still the feature would be nice to have.

LordXenite · 05-20-2009 01:52 PM

Heck, lets start the ball rolling on AE mission-goal improvement in allowing more than one trigger per each goal! The Devs should really start there before even thinking about expanding the conditional logic available to us.

I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati

Shadow State · 05-21-2009 08:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love the idea, but the devs that write content for the game don't have access to this function so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you know this... How?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it doesn't do it now. more properly, I suppose, they *have not had* access to the function. Whether they've come up with it and do internally now is anyone's guess.

That said... yeah, I'd love to see it. It'd play havoc with some of the near-limit arcs that get made, but it'd still be interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if Im wrong but wouldn't "switchs" be similar to however the devs did the Origins of Powers arcs. they'd just have to creat a flag that is less permanent then badges and character origin, maybe a mission clue would work.

Sigium · 05-21-2009 08:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love the idea, but the devs that write content for the game don't have access to this function so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you know this... How?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it doesn't do it now. more properly, I suppose, they *have not had* access to the function. Whether they've come up with it and do internally now is anyone's guess.

That said... yeah, I'd love to see it. It'd play havoc with some of the near-limit arcs that get made, but it'd still be interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if Im wrong but wouldn't "switchs" be similar to however the devs did the Origins of Powers arcs. they'd just have to creat a flag that is less permanent then badges and character origin, maybe a mission clue would work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if this idea were to be implemented, and had never been implemented before in the game, I'd like to try something like this;

All characters are given 20 switches. Something they will NEVER see, and something that will NEVER make a different outside of Architect. It doesn't show up in options, power attributes, etc.

When your character is made, all switches are set to OFF.

Upon Architect, then it begins to mess with those switches, modifying your characters as you go along with the arc.
Upon quitting the story arc, or completing it, all switches will immediately be returned to their OFF position.

And implementing this? Well, think of the 'This Event Happens When...' little box in the settings, or something like that. Give the option to choose 'Happen Upon Switch', which will open up two menus; one selecting switches 1 - 20, and another to select ON or OFF.

LordXenite · 05-21-2009 08:59 AM

Thinking up a data-structure is the easy part, Sigium...

I believe that a Kheldian Gold Standard should be based on SO's, and for anything above that... there's Platinum!

Save Ms. Liberty (#5349) � Augmenting Peacebringers � The Umbra Illuminati

Sigium · 05-21-2009 09:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thinking up a data-structure is the easy part, Sigium...

[/ QUOTE ]

Still, it's part of the work done, regardless. :P

I just think making an idea seem a bit more plausible on paper might make it easier for either the developers, or just the community to get in on if they've got a basic structure.