[ QUOTE ]
Um, Uberguy?
Exactly what did that have to do with what I was responding to?
[/ QUOTE ]
Heh. Well, it was a reply to you. I guess I didn't make how very clear.
What I'm saying is that, yes, you may be right that the "mainstream" content in CoV's 40+ game may make us feel less like flunkies/enforcers, and we may indeed feel as super villainous as CoH feels super heroic.
But the requirement to get PPPs is for us to choose Recluse's subordinates as our patrons.
In other words, no matter how well they do the main arcs and missions we get 40-50, what's been described so far leaves us with the choice of being patronized or getting no equivalent to hero EPPs.
And they're permanent.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now we have even more information from a dev, though it's now across to the Euro boards, and didn't sound certain.
[/ QUOTE ]
Please remember, Bridger is a mod like CuppaJo, not a dev. The devs could have changed things since they told the mods anything. Course, they could change things since they tell us too.
Maybe it's just me, but some powers have 'felt' different than they 'sound' when reading about them, which is why I hang on to respecs and use the test server to try a new build out.
Anyway, maybe I'm rambling, but at this point, I want i7 on test already so that we can move past 'if'.
[/ QUOTE ]
All true, including the rambling - badump-ching! 
[/ QUOTE ]
Ramble, ramble, mumble, mumble, grumble, grumble...
[ QUOTE ]
Then kindly shut the hell up, since all you seem to have time to comment on is the stupid tripe and are happily ignoring anything here worth paying attention to.
You might stop to consider that a post like yours and the one you responded to are just another form of whining.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's things worth replying to?
Really? Can you link to them?
If you link to a post that's crying how much something not even on Test is going to suck, then you fail to get a cookie.
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then kindly shut the hell up, since all you seem to have time to comment on is the stupid tripe and are happily ignoring anything here worth paying attention to.
You might stop to consider that a post like yours and the one you responded to are just another form of whining.
[/ QUOTE ]
There's things worth replying to?
Really? Can you link to them?
If you link to a post that's crying how much something not even on Test is going to suck, then you fail to get a cookie.
[/ QUOTE ]
Test server, test server, test server, test server, test server, TEST SERVER, test server, test server.
We do not need any of this to be on the test server to have the concerns voiced in this thread.
None. Nada. Nothing. Not one bit.
The test server would let us know if the powers sucked. It would let us know whether their visual themes clash with our characters. It will let us know if the arcs are broken, or if we can outlevel them.
The bulk of this thread's complaint has nothing to do with those things.
Not reading this thread has deprived you of a basic understanding of it.
We have been told that PPPs are a permanent path choice. They cannot be respeced out of. This is the one fact that has been said by a true dev, and not a forum mod.
This is the root of the complaint. We do not need a test server to know this, to dislike this, or to comment/complain about it.
Moreover they are patronization. Not even by Recluse himself, but by his subordinates. Those who want PPPs become the associates of subordinates to a top guy. You know, that not all of us want to work for.
Wake up and smell the freaking coffee.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Oooh, somebody's cranky.
Hey Ham, check out my responses. 100% Whine Free.
Now where the hell's my cookie? 
(edited for typos. now where the hell's my cookie?)
But, once again, the only piece of info we have is:
Perma.
And that's it. And it's enough that people have complained none stop.
There's be zero mention about the number of powers. Or the nature of the powers. There has been mention by a dev (not a forum mod!) that full info would be given out beforehand. Which is more info you get before you choose your AT.
And, of course, given the example of CoH, it's not like the epic/aux power pools are game breaking if you don't take them.
It's a different way of doing things. But it's hardly a horrible or game breaking one.
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
[ QUOTE ]
Oooh, somebody's cranky.
Hey Ham, check out my responces. 100% Whine Free.
Now where the hell's my cookie?
[/ QUOTE ]
No cookie.
There is no such word as "responces."
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
Now, the Hamster Take on Things.
I like this idea. However, the devs may want to consider having a seperate trial down the road for breaking with/turning on your patron.
There has to be some sort of code for taking out and replacing a badge. At least, the Croatoa Task Force mission against the Respawning Witch gives the impression of (each defeat changes/replaces the previous badge).
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
Here's your links. Just a sample.
Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oooh, somebody's cranky.
Hey Ham, check out my responces. 100% Whine Free.
Now where the hell's my cookie?
[/ QUOTE ]
No cookie.
There is no such word as "responces."
[/ QUOTE ]
;_; *sniff* you're always so mean to me!
*runs off to edit previous post*
[ QUOTE ]
In City of Villains, we're being relegated to be lackeys of the lackeys. How fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
You can look at it that way. You could also look at it as one of the handful of villains who sit at the top of the Arachnos hierarchy taking a personal interest in you, as you've come to their attention to the point where they are trying to recruit you into their own camps. None of the signature heroes in City of Heroes ever did that for me. They only noticed I was there, for the most part, if they needed a Task Force done, i.e. if they wanted to fob a problem off on someone. The Arachnos Patrons are taking time away from their own schemes to compete for my services with offers of power and support.
Arachnos isn't the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants or the Legion of Doom. It's not that small, and it's not that loose. It's Cobra, a ruthless terrorist organization determined to rule the world. It's Hydra. It's AIM, it's the Maggia, it's the Secret Empire. It's one of those classic underground organizations that menaces agencies like SHIELD. Faceless, nameless minions, signature attack vehicles, named/faced lieutenants running personally loyal factions under their own private themes, autocratic menace at the top of the pyramid.
But why do that in the first place? Why put all the villains under one banner like that? If you ask me, there's a good reason for it. The entire hero population of Paragon City is unified under one common militaristic banner, the Freedom Corps. If the Rogue Isles were fragmented and filled with loner villains exclaiming "I wrk 4 N0 M4N!!11!!!" then the Freedom Corps would take the Isles in about twenty minutes. They needed a practical reason why the Isles would be able to withstand the heroes of Paragon City, and this is it.
EvilGeko, I think it was, posted where it said that PCs shouldn't take second place to NPCs, but the quote also said that the PCs didn't by any means have to be the most powerful actors in the domain. It simply meant that the PCs should be at the forefront of the action, should be the ones solving the problems, should be the ones fighting the battles. Having an NPC named "T3h S00p4r-WIZ" fly in out of nowhere to kill the dragons for the PCs instead of letting the PCs take it down themselves is the sin to which that paragraph referred, and it's not a sin that's happening here. Developing a patron in the leadership of Arachnos isn't any different than developing a patron in the court of King Generic the Countryruler. The Patrons aren't showing up and killing off Heroes or Giant Monsters instead of us. They're just providing story direction, which is what characters like that are meant to do.
[ QUOTE ]
But, once again, the only piece of info we have is:
Perma.
And that's it. And it's enough that people have complained none stop.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, people have come in, said they dislike it. Then others come and attempt to convince them to like it, or outright disclaim that there is any right to dislike it. And those who posted they dislike it respond.
Or, for the examples I posted, people try to explain why they like or dislike it.
[ QUOTE ]
There's be zero mention about the number of powers. Or the nature of the powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, there specifically has been mention of that. Unfortunately it was not by a fully authoritative source, so any effort to use it in discussion has been manhandled by people who seem to want to squash and expression of dislike over what might be coming.
[ QUOTE ]
There has been mention by a dev (not a forum mod!) that full info would be given out beforehand. Which is more info you get before you choose your AT.
[/ QUOTE ]
If I don't like my AT or powersets, I usually figure it out within 6-10 hours of play. I might decide to tought it out on the basis of experience with other people's characters or hard numbers and my own imagination, but in general, that's not the same as making a permanent choice on a 400-500 hour investment.
Honestly, I don't think it matters sufficiently that we get full numbers. I am very much a numbers kinda guy and I still rarely choose powers without taking them to the test server first. And guess what - I can't test all the PPs until I'm high enough level to have them, but I might have started down the road to a power I won't like, and I can't go back. I dislike that. That you think it's OK doesn't make that better.
[ QUOTE ]
And, of course, given the example of CoH, it's not like the epic/aux power pools are game breaking if you don't take them.
[/ QUOTE ]
So what? I like the EPPs. The ones I've taken work great. They didn't unbalance my characters but they made them better and more fun for me to play. I want that on my villains too, thank you very much. "You can just skip it if you don't like the baggage" is a total BS response.
[ QUOTE ]
It's a different way of doing things. But it's hardly a horrible or game breaking one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Game breaking? No. Not horrible? Your opinion.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly Posi, it doesn't matter the reason - you guys dropped the ball on this one, plain and simple.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm going to reserve judgement until I see how it plays. Giving the hard numbers sounds like a very good move.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm going to agree with Revolver Law, hard numbers mean nothing in this case. We can change every other power pool, and heroes can change epics, so it makes no sense for villains to be unable to do the same. The CoV side of things is already unappealing to me, and this only gives me less motivation to keep playing my villains.
[/ QUOTE ]
Makes no sense? Please. The reason Posi gave makes perfect sense: the patron powers are tied to content for that villain. You may not agree with the design decision, but slipping into hyperbole just costs you credibility.
I say wait for it to hit the training Room. Actually, that brings up another point: the Training Room is another resource you can use to test out powers before you make the final decision.
Bottom line for me: I appreciate that some decisions have consequences. One of the reasons I play MMORPGs is that there's no savegame and I have to live with some of the decisions I make and actions I take.
[ QUOTE ]
Bottom line for me: I appreciate that some decisions have consequences. One of the reasons I play MMORPGs is that there's no savegame and I have to live with some of the decisions I make and actions I take.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your certainly welcome to that opinion. Me, I want those permanent concequences in any way besides my character design so late in the game. Have certain factions hate me. Have certain contacts never speak to me again (OK, they all do that eventually, but still).
Heroes do not work this way. I like that a lot. I don't want my villains to work that way.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
Why put all the villains under one banner like that? If you ask me, there's a good reason for it. The entire hero population of Paragon City is unified under one common militaristic banner, the Freedom Corps. If the Rogue Isles were fragmented and filled with loner villains exclaiming "I wrk 4 N0 M4N!!11!!!" then the Freedom Corps would take the Isles in about twenty minutes. They needed a practical reason why the Isles would be able to withstand the heroes of Paragon City, and this is it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I want to address this. This is purely a CoV setting artifice. It does not exist in CoH. I never once had the feeling that Freedom Corps or any other of the organizations mentioned in the backstory had any more significant impact on the city than any one, lone hero. (Or at most, team of eight heroes.) There's never any indication of Freedom Corps keeping Malta, the Council, Nemesis, the CoT, or any other major, organized faction in check. And honestly, I compare any of those directly to Arachnos in power. Especially organizations like the Council and Nemesis have leadership hierarchies directly comparable to that of Arachnos, and potentially trans-AV-class leaders with cross dimensional and/or cross planetary scope.
One could postulate that Freedom Corps has been sight unseen because they have been busy with the Rogue Isles. I don't think that works, because in the timeline the assault on the RI is a recent development. Plus, it's hard to believe that the FC would ignore (other) dire threats of a planetary scope just because they were massing to deal with RI.
[ QUOTE ]
The Patrons aren't showing up and killing off Heroes or Giant Monsters instead of us. They're just providing story direction, which is what characters like that are meant to do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps, but (and this isn't the first time we've been at this sort of juncture in CoX) its a matter of interpretation of the genre. What we're seeing here is that, no matter what the devs thought, a lot of people want to create Doctor Doom or Lex Luthor style villains - villains beholden to no ruler, patron, or partner.
I think the problem results because, on the hero side, nothing really stops us from creating a hero with that loner backstory who still has EPPs. But on the villain side we have to have this association if we want PPPs.
And they're permanent. 
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I want to address this. This is purely a CoV setting artifice. It does not exist in CoH. I never once had the feeling that Freedom Corps or any other of the organizations mentioned in the backstory had any more significant impact on the city than any one, lone hero. (Or at most, team of eight heroes.) There's never any indication of Freedom Corps keeping Malta, the Council, Nemesis, the CoT, or any other major, organized faction in check.
[/ QUOTE ]
Every hero in Paragon City is a registered member of Freedom Corps. 'S why our information is given on a Freedom Corps ID card. The "lone hero" in Paragon City is still working as a Freedom Corps agent under Freedom Corps auspices. Freedom Corps isn't absent - we are Freedom Corps, aren't we?
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps, but (and this isn't the first time we've been at this sort of juncture in CoX) its a matter of interpretation of the genre. What we're seeing here is that, no matter what the devs thought, a lot of people want to create Doctor Doom or Lex Luthor style villains - villains beholden to no ruler, patron, or partner.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure a "lot" of people is really the appropriate term. I'm a compulsive info checker, and most of the people I see in Paragon City or the Rogue Isles don't even fill in their bios. Heck, a large share see their characters as a collection of numbers with a name and not a character at all. Of the ones I see who do fill in their bios, I honestly don't recall seeing that many that were completely incompatible with the idea of accepting patronage. Some? Yeah. Lots? Not really.
I guess my basic feeling on the subject is that it feels like inviting people to make characters for your sword and sorcery RPG and then having a guy make a cyborg with laser cannons. It might be a fine character, but it's not a fine character for the setting. A character doesn't have to be a completely antisocial lonely megalomaniac to be a villain, and they usually aren't in real comics.
Even if a person absolutely must make such a character because no other style of character appeals... you really don't have to do the Patron arc. That would be keeping completely in character. Scorning the reward because the price is too high for such a character would be an impressive role-playing choice for the dedicated concept player who can't find that room to flex.
Just because you having heard of Freedom Corps fighting any of these other factions doesnt mean it hasnt happened. There is a lot on the hero side that hadnt been mentioned until COV came out. Take for example the Wyvern or the Legacy Chain. Not one mention in COH but they are fully fleshed out organizations helping to fight the evil forces in the Rogue Isles.
Something else that is bothering me about all of this is that just because it says the choice is permanent when it is made doesnt mean down the road you cant make ANOTHER choice!!!
I mean I really hope for more content past level 50 and who knows maybe then you can tell ALL the patrons to kiss your "you know what" and punk out Lord Recluse himself!! I really think everyone just needs to sit back and let the Devs play this one out because I believe we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg here.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I want to address this. This is purely a CoV setting artifice. It does not exist in CoH. I never once had the feeling that Freedom Corps or any other of the organizations mentioned in the backstory had any more significant impact on the city than any one, lone hero. (Or at most, team of eight heroes.) There's never any indication of Freedom Corps keeping Malta, the Council, Nemesis, the CoT, or any other major, organized faction in check.
[/ QUOTE ]
Every hero in Paragon City is a registered member of Freedom Corps. 'S why our information is given on a Freedom Corps ID card. The "lone hero" in Paragon City is still working as a Freedom Corps agent under Freedom Corps auspices. Freedom Corps isn't absent - we are Freedom Corps, aren't we?
[/ QUOTE ]
Really? Never knew that the ID card says we are freedom Corps, and I've played the game since beta. I always thought we just got registered as heroes, hence the ID card. I think most people see it that way, because it has no impact at all on the stories in CoH.
Always remember, we were Heroes.
The ID card only says "Paragon City Registered Hero". It says nothing at all about Freedom Corps association.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, I want to address this. This is purely a CoV setting artifice. It does not exist in CoH. I never once had the feeling that Freedom Corps or any other of the organizations mentioned in the backstory had any more significant impact on the city than any one, lone hero. (Or at most, team of eight heroes.) There's never any indication of Freedom Corps keeping Malta, the Council, Nemesis, the CoT, or any other major, organized faction in check.
[/ QUOTE ]
Every hero in Paragon City is a registered member of Freedom Corps. 'S why our information is given on a Freedom Corps ID card. The "lone hero" in Paragon City is still working as a Freedom Corps agent under Freedom Corps auspices. Freedom Corps isn't absent - we are Freedom Corps, aren't we?
[/ QUOTE ]
Really? Never knew that the ID card says we are freedom Corps, and I've played the game since beta. I always thought we just got registered as heroes, hence the ID card. I think most people see it that way, because it has no impact at all on the stories in CoH.
[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I thought too, IIRC the ID comes from Paragon City, not from Freedom Corps.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
It could be that was just my impression. The way the city is set up with government services for all the heroes and Freedom Corps personnel guiding the new heroes and the level ranks and such forth, I'd always thought we were supposed to be FC.
In any case, even if the heroes aren't FC, the original point was that they're still organized through the city government, so a completely disorganized villain "civilization" out on the Isles would get plastered unless there was some sort of unifying element.
Ah, I didn't think so. But didn't like to call Click on it without checking, since I am not that observant and he/she tends to be fairly good on such things.
Tiny ID Card
ID Card
[ QUOTE ]
It could be that was just my impression. The way the city is set up with government services for all the heroes and Freedom Corps personnel guiding the new heroes and the level ranks and such forth, I'd always thought we were supposed to be FC.
In any case, even if the heroes aren't FC, the original point was that they're still organized through the city government, so a completely disorganized villain "civilization" out on the Isles would get plastered unless there was some sort of unifying element.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really, theres very little organisation within CoH. They help get new heroes on their feet, but after that they are left pretty much to themselves, to do as they see fit. theres certainly no indication that you work for any particular organisation (other than the Rule of Law), nor are you beholden to any organisation.
Just for fun, go read Manticores monologue in the CoH comic #11 about the benefits of being a Villain. Its kind of interesting he is describing pretty much the exact oposite of Arachnos, something more akin to the organisation we have in CoH.
EDIT to add some stuff, and to provide a better pic
Always remember, we were Heroes.
That is the tiniest ID card ever. 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Considering we haven't played through the 40+ game and mayhem missions, this seems to be a disservice to the developers without seeing the upper end content.
I somehow doubt we are "just" flunkies up at the high end. Heck, we've had that whole destined thing going on since *level 1*.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. My 35 Blaster is currently investigating the excursion into our realm of an ancient demon who strikes fear even into the black hearts of the Circle of Thorns and threatens to engulf Paragon City.
My 36 Brute just saved a john and some [Censored] from carnie extortion.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think I remember that arc a little differently. Of course, I see it as being a high-powered enforcer on retainer being paid *lots* of cash to go in a bust up someone elses racket so that my current boss can muscle into a territory.
Hmm. Sounds like high level mob tactics and pretty villainous to me.
[ QUOTE ]
Both story arcs. Both established characters. One is a hired thug and the other is a hero. Now let's extrapolate that to the 40s with what we know. We know that the ancillary pool mechanic from City of Heroes is being replaced with this patron pool. We know in order to get the pool you MUST ally yourself with a Patron. Patron implies a subservient position. The choice is permanent.
We also know about Grandville the 40-50 zone for villains. Grandville is Lord Recluse's seat of power. All that occurs there is under his thumb. PC villains just take their place at the bottom of the zone and have to claw their ways to the top so that they might be allowed to lick Lord Recluse's boot.
Fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
Or that you have gained such an amount of power that Lord Recluse is trying to subborn you into his organization because you are a *THREAT* and threats must be dealt with in someway.
My villain has nearly destroyed the isles a few times almost accidentally. As I want to keep them around as a base of operation, I've deigned to work with that silly demon hunter.
Still here, even after all this time!
[ QUOTE ]
Considering we haven't played through the 40+ game and mayhem missions, this seems to be a disservice to the developers without seeing the upper end content.
I somehow doubt we are "just" flunkies up at the high end. Heck, we've had that whole destined thing going on since *level 1*.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. My 35 Blaster is currently investigating the excursion into our realm of an ancient demon who strikes fear even into the black hearts of the Circle of Thorns and threatens to engulf Paragon City.
My 36 Brute just saved a john and some [Censored] from carnie extortion.
Both story arcs. Both established characters. One is a hired thug and the other is a hero. Now let's extrapolate that to the 40s with what we know. We know that the ancillary pool mechanic from City of Heroes is being replaced with this patron pool. We know in order to get the pool you MUST ally yourself with a Patron. Patron implies a subservient position. The choice is permanent.
We also know about Grandville the 40-50 zone for villains. Grandville is Lord Recluse's seat of power. All that occurs there is under his thumb. PC villains just take their place at the bottom of the zone and have to claw their ways to the top so that they might be allowed to lick Lord Recluse's boot.
Fun.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.