[ QUOTE ]
This is where the wheels come off, so to speak. Those powers' speeds just seem tame, although SS at least feels like its fast. Finally, I do not like the name Super Speed, since all you really get is Super Sprint.
[/ QUOTE ]
But they can't call it Super Sprint because that's the name of an Atari racing game from the 80's 
Excellent work, ImmortalNite. I wonder if your base numbers for Fly and Swift might be off though. Not the conclusions, just the base. Since Fly and Swift both gradually increase as you level, that could throw things off some when calculating percentages and increases.
For example, a LONG time ago Geko posted about Super Speed, Sprint, and Swift. I distinctly remember him saying that Sprint increased your speed by 50% (and your numbers match that perfectly). He also said that Swift increased it by 25%. It could have been 20% (the post was a very long time ago) but I'm almost positive it was 25%, and I am absolutely positive that he said it increases a little bit each level until it caps at 30-something percent. Assuming you were using a high-level character for your tests, that seems to be confirmed as well since your tests show Swift as 33% over "walk".
The only thing I'm really curious about is, does the natural increase of Fly and Swift increase the base, or does it simply get treated as a buff to the base like adding enhancements to them? That could make a difference in determining what an SO does to them. For example, does Fly have a 33 mph base at 50th level with SOs increasing that by 20% each? Or, does it really have something like a 25 mph base with SOs increasing it by 33% each, and then have the extra "natural" level-based increased tacked on at the end, like adding another SO to it?
I'm curious to find out what Fly is at 14th level and Swift at 6th level, and then see what the numbers would look like then.
Again, excellent work!
Dwimble
[ QUOTE ]
"Walk" is a misnomer for the four-minute mile. It should be called Run, at the very least. We heroes don't "Walk" anywhere.
[/ QUOTE ]
I used "Walk", cause if I used "Run" I though I might confuse people into thinking I was talking about "Sprint".
[ QUOTE ]
Excellent work, ImmortalNite. I wonder if your base numbers for Fly and Swift might be off though. Not the conclusions, just the base. Since Fly and Swift both gradually increase as you level, that could throw things off some when calculating percentages and increases.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is an interesting point... I forgot about the speed ramp up for certain powers (Fly and Swift)... I was using a lvl 46 Scrapper for my tests. So he would have all his powers "ramped up". I'll have to test a lvl 14 at some point to try it.
[ QUOTE ]
Hurdle+Combat Jumping is almost its own travel power. It's faster than low level Fly in a lot of situations. It's also probably the least safe method of travel.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless you add in a bubble, which is not only fun to watch, but a lot safer ...
Here's the deal with CJ & Hurdle.
Combat Jumping increases your air acceleration and jump height. It doesn't affect your jump speed in anyway EXCEPT that you will start moving forward faster, IF you are running forward slower than your max jump speed.
Hurdle increases your jump height(minor) and max jump speed. It also might have a direct or indirect effect on your air acceleration, but if so it is extremely minor. Enhancements increase both your jump speed(6 SOs in this power is incredibly fast, nearly 50 MPH IIRC) and your jump height. But like in Sprint, the height modifier is so small, enhancing it for extra height is a very minor gain.
Also, Swift is, according to Geko's old post, 25-35% run speed.
Great guide!
On the topic of fly getting the shaft:
I think the travel powers are more or less even (though I can't see myself ever taking super speed--ever). I would prefer fly lose its acc debuff, but the speed is okay since the mobility is so good. Regardless, I generally choose my travel powers based on the hero concept or aesthetics rather than their effectiveness.
I have to disagree with the original poster about fly getting the shaft.
Fly is the best ability for scouting, by far. It is the safest ability for exploring a new area (although it is not the safest for escaping battle).
There are a lot of dimentions to the travel powers, but some were not listed in the original post. Only Teleport and Fly make travel in the Shadow Shard reasonable. Fly's ability to go AFK for a drink is an ability that no other travel power has -- and means that you can spend more of your time at the computer earning XP, instead of bouncing, porting or running through a zone. If a Teleporter wishes to go AFK, they certainly can not do it while traveling.
If Fly were any better, it would be by far the most popular travel power. As it is, it appears to already be the most popular.
At www.creyindustries.com you can search the database by Power Pools. Here are the numbers:
4058 Speed
4038 Flight
2942 Leaping
2032 Teleport
Now, it's worth remembering, some people take the Flight pool just for Hover, a HUGE number of people take the Speed pool just for Hasten, some people take the Teleport pool just for Recall Friend. I can't imagine more than a handful take the Leaping pool just for Combat Jump.
In any case, Flight and SuperSpeed appear to be the most popular travel powers, with Super Jump and Teleport considerably below those.
Based on what people are picking, Fly does not appear to need to get better. I'd hate to have a situation where people felt they needed to break their character concept to take a travel power because it was clearly better than the others.
Teleport is the most-unloved travel power. It would therefore appear just fine that it is the fastest.
- Jeremy White
IMO, Fly could do with capping, at the high game, with 2 SOs instead of "nearly 4." 
i'd say remove the speed cap from fly and call it quits 
Put me in the camp of Fly Is Just Fine. It is slower, no question there, but full 3D mobility and control more than makes up for it. I started out as a Teleporter, added Hover for safety/convenience, then found I needed better control. Fly get's you anywhere on the map at the listed speeds, and usually in a straight line too.
These are great numbers, great work IN!
I never had hover or fly on any character until I got my warshade to level 6. Flying around blasting stuff was an interesting experience, and I finally got to see the city from the air. The nova form fly is pretty decent, but I don't actually use it to travel much since I have other travel powers that are a lot faster.
If I had to spend a power choice to get a version of fly that had no acc penalty, no end usage, and so-so speed, I would do it. But the actual fly power, no way - too many downsides. I would consider 6-slotted flight speed hover as a better alternative, but that's a lot of slots.
My fastest-traveling characters have super speed and teleport, usually with one of the two picked up in later levels. SS/TP and SS/SJ are amazing combinations - I can go anywhere at very high speed. However, the pause when dropping from a teleport to start running is quite annoying. As anyone who has done a Shard TF with me can testify, I usually get to the mission first and port everyone.
If the point of a travel power is to get you from point A to point B without a bunch of downtime, fly fails horribly. Some people want other things from their travel powers - I just want to get from a contact in FF to a mission in Crey's Folly without getting bored. It's probably safe to say that most players are not hardcore min-maxers so they are attracted to fly because it lets you....FLY (which is cool, I know). The lower rate of xp/hour caused by travel downtime is not a consideration.
One thing I'd like to mention is Boost Range from the Blaster Energy secondary. It doubles the range of all your powers for a bit.... think about that.
Suddenly that Teleport has twice the range. You can go twice as fast -- from 143 mph to 286 mph.
Just.... wow. *drools* I can't wait until my blaster gets Boost Range. And I've had TP since lvl 14 on him, so I can just imagine how sweet that would be.
[ QUOTE ]
One thing I'd like to mention is Boost Range from the Blaster Energy secondary. It doubles the range of all your powers for a bit.... think about that.
Suddenly that Teleport has twice the range. You can go twice as fast -- from 143 mph to 286 mph.
Just.... wow. *drools* I can't wait until my blaster gets Boost Range. And I've had TP since lvl 14 on him, so I can just imagine how sweet that would be.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually Power Boost Adds 100% to the base...
With 6 SO Tp is at 220% (100% base + 6SO*20%)... so with PB on... it would be 320% in theory. So that would come out to be 208 mph, not 286 mph.
How do you determine MPH? Do you just time yourself over a set distance? Or is there another simpler method?
I went to Perigrine Island Clicked a spot on a map that was exaclty one mile away and flat (usually in the water) and timed that. I converted that 1 mile/time in seconds to miles/hr. I did a few runs and took an average.
Stupid question...is "sprint" the same thing as the prestige travel powers? Like Quick?
Great post btw, thanks for all the analysis.
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Right out of the box... NO enhancements
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Power MPH
Walk 15 mph
Swift** 20 mph (+5)
</pre><hr />
Now I add one SO to each to see the increase.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Power % Boost per SO MPH per SO
Swift 33% (to the +7.5 base) 2.5
</pre><hr />
Now what would we expect if we 6 Slot each power... assuming no speed caps.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Power 6 SO Boost
Swift 30 mph
</pre><hr />
Now I know there are caps with Most powers and here they are:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Power Apparent cap
Swift** 30 mph
</pre><hr />
[/ QUOTE ]
OK, I have a question about your numbers for Swift. You say that base walk is 15 mph and Swift unslotted adds 5 mph and each SO in Swift adds 2.5 mph. Shouldn't that make the total of walk + 6-slotted Swift be 35 mph? 15 + 5 + 2.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 = 35 You seem to be only adding the base walk speed plus the SOs in Swift, but not Swift itself. Or am I just reading this wrong? I know that 5 mph might not seem like a big deal, but I'm a Stone Tank and this is actually my only travel power. I'd appreciate clarification on this.
Whoops.... I had Sprint and Swift swapped on that table sorry. But its too late to edit the main post saddly. 
All the other tables seem to be ok though.
Sprint is +7.5 (7.5*0.33= 2.5) and Swift is +5 (5*0.33= 1.67). So... It should read:
Now I add one SO to each to see the increase.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Power % Boost per SO MPH per SO
Sprint 33% (to the +7.5 base) 2.5
Swift 33% (to the +5 base) 1.67
Super Speed 33% (to the +50 base) 16.67
Super Jump 33% 16.67
Hover 166.7% 4.44
Fly 20% 6.6
Group Fly 20% 4.6
Teleport 20% (range enhancements) 13
Group TP 20% (range enhancements) 9.76</pre><hr />
[ QUOTE ]
Stupid question...is "sprint" the same thing as the prestige travel powers? Like Quick?
Great post btw, thanks for all the analysis.
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't test those... but Prestige Power Quick and Prestige Power Slide are analogs to Sprint, so they should work that same.
Great work. You beat me to it. :-( But I'm still gonna post my Movement Guide in a week or two. :-) I'm on vacation now and don't have all my data with me, or the ability to easily gather more to finish it. But hopefully I will next week.
I found a MUCH easier and accurate way to determine speeds. I go to PI and use a nice stretch of open water like you, but I record it to a demo file. Then I use a simple script to read through the demo and determine my speed. Demo files have timestamps to the millisecond and positions in X/Y/Z coordinates to the fraction of a foot.
I found that Hurdle is a GREAT movement power at low levels. However I found that a level 50 character with 5 SOs goes faster than with 6! I was working on jumping before I went on vacation, and didn't have time to look into this.
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
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Are you sure flight SOs are only worth 15%? I've never heard that number before.
[/ QUOTE ]
It seems flight SOs are worth 166.5% (5x33.3%) since they affect Hover by that much. Flight appears to be hover with a built in 1000%-ish speed boost (for a total of 11x hover speed). Adding a SO will bring that to 1166.7% (12.7x hover) which isn't all that noticable. At least, those are the results I got when I tested fly and hover at level 32.
I think flight SOs are hard to test... Its very hard to fly in one dimension to get an accurate test. In hover, Flight SOs are worth 33.3%, BUT I believe they are 5 parts enhanceable. It is similar to the way they planned to lower the effectiveness of SOs in Instant healing on test. Instant Healing adds a base of 800% regen. The change they made... made 2 parts of that enhanceable and 6 part un-enhanceable... thereby cutting Heal SOs to 1/4 (2/8 enhanceable) effectiveness or 8.3%. So it makes sense that the Devs could increase powers in the same manner. Hovers base is say 100% (just as a example to make it easy to understand)... so making SOs in it 5 parts enhanceable they could make them 5 times as powerful or 167% (5*33.3).
Now about fly... I did multiple runs.. but the results were variable due to the fact its nearly impossible to fly in a straight line without going up or down a bit... thereby messing up the results. Also any small error on my part can make the MPH differ greatly (so i had to round and use my own judgement to get some results that looked realistic). My first test came up with 15% as an SO for fly... I ran it again and came up wit 20%. After much thought and debate about regen numbers (till geko told us) I know think that the flight SOs are likely 16.6% being actually 33.3% but being 1 part enhanceable and 1 part unenhanceable. This 1 and 1 would make them 1/2 as effective or 16.6%. At some point I need to retest fly yet again... but some how limit the up and down movements. So as it stands I KNOW SOs in fly are between a 15-20% boost... and after much thought I would guess they are 16.6% (33% 1 part enhanceable and 1 part unenhanceable).
If I were to do a similar test again, which is unlikely, I would use the /loc command to get (x, y, z) values. It's then easy to calculate distance in coordinate units using the formula sqrt((x2 - x1)^2 + (y2 - y1)^2 + (z2 - z1)^2). This should give fairly accurate results even when not flying straight since you can also take the z-coordinate into account. Units per mile can be calculated by moving a known distance in yards or miles and measuring unit-distance in the same way.
I skipped the part about measuring units per mile and settled for calculating speed increase (enhanced speed/base speed).
Just an idea for testing flight speed. Have a friend stand exactly a mile from you while you're hovering up in the air with nothing between the two of you. Then select your friend and hit follow. You should fly straight to him with no deviations. If you don't have a friend that can help you out, you may be able to do this with a stationary NPC (trainer, contacts, etc).
I've included Hover and Fly measurements from my tests below, from a level 50 character using level 50 SOs and HOs. Values are in feet/second. Multiply by 1.4667 to get MPH. These are my highly accurate measurements from demo files. From this, I've determined that Flight powers have a Base Speed that IS NOT affected by Enhancements, and an Enhancement Speed that IS affected by Enhancements. Even level SOs add +33.3% to the Enhancement Speed, while HOs add +30.0%.
Unenhanced Speed = Base Speed + Enhancement Speed
Enhanced Speed = Base Speed + (Enhancement Speed * (1 + Enhancements))
Hover has a Base Speed of -16.8 f/s, and a 21.00 f/s Enhancement Speed. (Note that 21.00 f/s is the base run speed.) Fly has a Base Speed of 21.00 f/s, and a 28.67 f/s enhancement base. These computed speeds match the measured values below to within 0.04%.
Again these speeds are for level 50. Flight supposedly increases in speed, and I have yet to determine the formula for that.
Hover with 0 SO: 4.2
Hover with 1 SO: 11.19
Hover with 2 SO: 18.19
Hover with 3 SO: 25.18
Hover with 4 SO: 32.18
Hover with 5 SO: 39.17
Hover with 6 SO: 46.17
Hover with 1 HO 5 SO: 45.46
Fly with 0 SO: 49.66
Fly with 1 SO: 59.20
Fly with 2 SO: 68.76
Fly with 3 SO: 78.31
Fly with 4+ SO: 86.00
Fly with 1 HO: 58.27
Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.
I've moved on to Diablo 3, TopDoc-1304
This is a nice guide. Thanks for making it. Here are some random comments, because feedback is the reason we post, ain't it?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure if this was ever done or not... BUT I was a little bored this morning and had a few respecs on a character on Test... So I respec-ed into getting all the travel powers to check out... Which is the fastest???
Right out of the box... NO enhancements
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Power MPH
Walk 15 mph
Sprint On** 22.5 mph (+7.5)</pre><hr />
[/ QUOTE ]
"Walk" is a misnomer for the four-minute mile. It should be called Run, at the very least. We heroes don't "Walk" anywhere.
Sprint is just slower than Michael Johnson's current world record for the 200 meter: 19.32 seconds--23.16 mph.
So every hero, even the skinny ones, can sprint faster than the fastest recorded Olympian, for an indefinite period of time, with just one speed enhancement. Cool!
I hope Congreff doesn't get it into its head to start prosecuting steroid use in the heroes of Paragon City. We are all setting a terrible example for the youth of the nation.
[ QUOTE ]
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Swift** 20 mph (+5)
Super Speed** 65 mph (+50)
Super Jump 50 mph
Hover 2.66 mph
Fly 33.3 mph
Group Fly 23.3 mph
Teleport 65 mph
Group TP 48.8 mph
</pre><hr />
[/ QUOTE ]
This is where the wheels come off, so to speak. Those powers' speeds just seem tame, although SS at least feels like its fast. Finally, I do not like the name Super Speed, since all you really get is Super Sprint.
[ QUOTE ]
Now I know there are caps with Most powers and here they are:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Power Apparent cap
Sprint On** 37.5 mph
Swift** 30 mph</pre><hr />
[/ QUOTE ]
The combined speed of 6-slotting both powers is, I believe, 52.5 mph.
[ QUOTE ]
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Super Speed ~90 mph
Super Jump ~80 mph
Hover 29.3 mph
Fly ~60 mph
Group Fly ~45 mph
Teleport** 143 mph
Group TP** 107 mph
</pre><hr />
**Doesn't appear to have a cap... with 6 SOs it went at its expected max speed.
So... THE FASTEST... The Winner... is TELEPORT!!! with 143 mph!
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow! It's gotta be worth 6-slotting to certain players, just to go 143 mph.
[ QUOTE ]
Now how to reach the cap with each power:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Power To cap it
Fly 4 SOs (should put you at 66.6 mph but caps at ~60 mph)</pre><hr />
[/ QUOTE ]
Fly's speed ramps up as you go up in level, reaching its zenith at level 40, I think. So the number of slots you need to hit the cap is higher the lower your level. Unfortunately, I don't know what the numbers are or where to find them.