stever

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
being a 51 month vet, i wouldn't care if people baught the rewards, the only ones worth having are...

sands of mu / ghost slaying axe
blackwand / nam staff
Port team
base teleport
and the respec rewards

[/ QUOTE ]
And that is why "just sell them!" isn't an effective war cry. Allowing people to cherry-pick the rewards they want at will means, inevitably, most people will only ever want to spring for 3-4 items at most. I don't know if I'd call that an effective program to encourage player longevity and to spark revenue....

[/ QUOTE ] I agree with all of that, and some people say buy them in order.

That doesn't work to keep the population up either.
People can buy a pile, and then have no carrot a few months down the road to make them stay and play.
And it doesn't do anything to keep people from taking interruptive breaks and shut down their accounts for a few months either. If you can just buy the VRs you missed when you come back.. No incentive to keep staying and playing there either.

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[ QUOTE ]
I'd be willing to bet that Vet Rewards are MUCH more effective in keeping long time players here, than keeping relative noobs here. Just sayin'

[/ QUOTE ]
I definitely agree with you.

Out of people who have been playing a year or less, There tend to be a percentage of people who would never play ANY game very long term, and therefore more likely to quit.
Also, relatively newer players have less 'invested' in the game, and therefore, more likely to quit even if there is a shiny in the near future.

But 2 to 5 year players?
They have more 'invested' in the game, and are proven payers and players. These tendencies make shiny carrots held out in front of them even more effective. . . . to keep them playing longer, and definitely not to take interruptive breaks from the game.


I am pretty sure that it makes noticeable difference to the Game coffers all across the board.
But I definitely see your point that it probably influence longer term players more.

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[ QUOTE ]
I would argue (and this is a slight derail) that any player who's already been playing (and paying) long enough to get the 60 month badge would be doing so with or without veteran rewards. Implying that people only remain loyal to the game because they are rewarded with veteran powers seems intellectually dishonest to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't forget the not-taking-a-break factor.

Many people have returned to the game and said things like
"Dang! If I hadn't taken a year off, I woulda had XXXX by now!"
Or
"I couldn't play for those four months, but I wish I had kept the account active. I have fallen behind where I could have been by now".
Or
"I'm back! But I kept my account active while I was away!"


Hard to know for sure how many people resisted disabling their account for a while,
But remarks I have seen indicate a LOT of non-interrupted accounts because of VRs.



ETA: also, a percentage of people who quit to 'to take a break' just forget to come back.
If you can get some people to not take the break, you also prevent some complete-quits.

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[ QUOTE ]
The huge and painfully obvious thing you keep failing to see is that those players did get all those veteran rewards. You can't be rewarded something that didn't exist, so them not having them for the first 2.5 years is a complete non-issue. The players who didn't get them for the first 2.5 years DID get them all.

[/ QUOTE ] I do see. I covered that.

You are ignoring the difference.
Newer players have the advantage of IMMEDIATELY starting to earn, and receive, VRs all through the first 28 months of their gaming career.
advantage here goes to newer vets.

[ QUOTE ]
You fail to see the difference between still getting all the rewards, but having a delay (because the system didn't even exist) with never, EVER getting the rewards at all, and the compounded problem of each reward becoming accessible to an ever increasingly tiny portion of the player base.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, at some point, the world will explode or CoX will end. some people will miss out on the last couple years of VRs.
counter-advantage, goes to older vets
(Yes, the people on the short end of this side of the equation may be a little more numerous, but probably still less than the number of people who played for 2.5 years with no VRs, and also they have less invested in CoX.)

But still the equation balances.
I don't expect to discuss this particular point further. I think I have made this side point as clear as I can.
__________________________________________________ ____




[ QUOTE ]
If it reaches a point where a veteran reward will only ever be obtained by a couple dozen players, (and by definition, it must reach this point unless CoH remains online forever AND longtime players never unsubscribe) is it really worth the time and effort to develop and code it when that same time could be used for something that would benefit the playerbase at large?

It's simply a logistics problem - resources to code said reward vs. actual benefit to the game for doing so.

[/ QUOTE ]

As several have said, Once the VR system is set in place, adding each VR is really a very minor task... minor tweaks, and database entries to track who has the rewards.


So, . . . (minor-resources-to-code) vs (keeping people in the 32+ month range paying and playing month after month, longer than they otherwise might?)
Yes, that equation says, 'very worthwhile'.



And an answer to your "only a few will ever get them"?
What if the devs ever get to the suggested attitude of "Aww the game might end in a few months, Let's just start laying down and dieing"?

Logical response? Turn on all VRs for everyone for the last few months.
At that point, and not before, it would no longer be needed to be the carrot to keep us playing for rewards months or years away.
It would also bring in a lot of final revenue, from people who might re-enlist for those last few months, to play with complete VRs.

It would be logical, so maybe you are wrong that everyone won't get the higher VRs.
But I think we are a long way from being in a game where the devs should start giving up and planning for the end.
I wouldn't want to be in a game where the devs planned based on possible game death,
so I won't be a part of encouraging them to gain that attitude.

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[ QUOTE ]
Stever, if you're just going to keep ignoring my points and make troll posts/mock me, I'd like to kindly ask you to stop. It's not constructive and it's derailing the thread.

Your entire comparison to 3 year vets vs 1 year getting the same rewards doesn't even make sense, because those vets DID get their rewards retroactively. It's not even the same issue, you're arguing retroactive rewards and I'm discussing the possibility of rewards that will never be rewarded in the first place. If you want to mock me, please at least try to do it in a way that actually has some bearing on what I'm actually saying.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not mocking you in any way.
Presenting logical and historical points
If you see no comparison between <ul type="square">[*]people who played the game for 2.5 years with no VRs. and[*]People who may miss out on the last couple of years of VRs[/list]Then I guess we can't help that.

But it is just logic and history.
Please do not let it make you feel mocked.

at least not by me.
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[ QUOTE ]
Actually, my argument has nothing whatsoever to do with wanting the rewards 'RIGHT NOW'. It has everything to do with looking realistically at how much they're going to keep stretching the rewards vs. how probable it will be that it would even be possible for a player to EVER see them, no matter how patient they are.

Once you hit the imaginary line dividing the halfway point of an MMO's lifespan (whatever this may be, obviously nobody can see the future) than any future veteran rewards added beyond that point become impossible to achieve,

[/ QUOTE ] Oh Noes!
I guess we may be doomed to just accepting more VRs as we earn them.
And I guess we will just be forced to continue having barrels of fun till 'The End'.
alas!


But the balance you feel is missing already exists!

Take this moment to reassure yourself with THIS:

<ul type="square">[*]VRs were introduced when the game was 28 months old![*]So, very realistically, newer players have an advantage over older vets. They get rewards every 3 months of their CoX career, that many had to wait almost 2.5 years to get![*]If a player reaches 32 months, you can kind of call it equal. You won't get the last 28 months of VRs, but older vets went without ANY VRs for 28 months.[*]So when/if the end comes, the tragedy of those who don't get to the 60 or so VR will be balanced out by the fact that older vets did not get ANY VR for almost 2.5 years of their game.[*]What this balance means boils down to [b]The only real advantage the older vets have, is many months more of fun playing CoX.[*](I do have to admit that is a pretty sweet advantage. Oh well.)[/list]
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... And as a result, you do have control over it; continue to pay and play the game. That's it. Plain and simple.

--Rad

[/ QUOTE ]

Realistically, any player who starts playing now, will actually probably never get the 60 month vet power ever, no matter what he or she does, given the average lifespan of most MMOs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, when CoX was 6 months old there were people predicting its imminent death.
And I would have laughed if anyone would have said I would still be having the time of my life playing it 5 years later.

And yet . . .

And yet . . .

Here CoX still is,
and here I still am, having a blast!

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[/ QUOTE ]

Predicting doom 6 months in is -just- a little different from predicting an online game (most of which, even more successful ones than CoH, already have notoriously short lifespans) with a largely stagnant player base and an engine the devs have admitted is pushing its limits in several areas, will not be around in TEN YEARS from its launch. (Double the -entire- time of its existence to date.) If you cannot tell the difference, ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Those 6 month doom criers gave apparently logical, kind of believable, reasons too.

And yet . . .

And yet . . .

Well, let's take your suggestions as reasonable though...


Oh Noes!
I guess we may be doomed to just acepting more VRs as we earn them.
And I guess we will just be forced to continue having barrels of fun till 'The End'.

alas!

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even if you've been around 3 years, the goal-line keeps moving away.

[/ QUOTE ]
Really? A goal-line? This mentality is exactly why the VRs should never stop. Evah.


[/ QUOTE ]
LOL! True.

I can imagine those people sitting there...
"Oh Noes! How will I ever get all the VRs if they just keep adding more!
Wait, Wait! they just added another one I can get later!

Stop it! Just Stop IT!!!
Quit adding more things I can earn!"

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... And as a result, you do have control over it; continue to pay and play the game. That's it. Plain and simple.

--Rad

[/ QUOTE ]

Realistically, any player who starts playing now, will actually probably never get the 60 month vet power ever, no matter what he or she does, given the average lifespan of most MMOs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, when CoX was 6 months old there were people predicting its imminent death.
And I would have laughed if anyone would have said I would still be having the time of my life playing it 5 years later.

And yet . . .

And yet . . .

Here CoX still is,
and here I still am, having a blast!

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[ QUOTE ]
. . . The only factor I see here that would cause someone consternation or anger over any of the Vet rewards is jealously. "If I can't have everything s/he has, I quit!"

I'll admit, I love having access to Sands of Mu at lvl 1 now, but I made it through a whole year of playing without that ability, and never once did I think, "That guy has Sands of Mu at level 1 and I don't, so what is the sense in even playing this game?"

I just. don't. get. it.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, and if VRs did not exist, people with this mentality would just do it with something else.

WAH! I am level 10, and I can't have the cape those people have, . . . want them right Nao!
Wah! I am not high enough to run the mish to get the Roman armor! I wants it Right Nao!

This is life.
There are things you don't get till your alt is a certain level. There are things you don't get till you meet certain requirements. There will always be things one does not have . . . yet.

But these people, like all players CAN get all those capes, Roman armor, and rewards...
as soon as they earn them like everyone else.

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[ QUOTE ]
...And, second, my complaint is that this is being doled out to only *some* of the population. ...

[/ QUOTE ]
umm, yes...
Today only SOME of the pop will earn their cape.
This month, only SOME of the pop will get their Greek symbols Vet Reward...
That is the way life works... Time only exists to keep everything from happening all at once.
BUT, . . .


Your total premise is without logic. <ul type="square">[*]VRs are for EVERY player.[*]Like most rewards, you simply have to earn them first.
And EVERY player does.[*]VRs are the easiest reward in the game. Just keep paying and playing.
and EVERY player just keeps getting them.[*] VRs are the FAIREST reward in the game.
You can't buy them;
You can't PL to get them.
You can't cheat to get them.
and EVERYone gets them at the same milestones in their CoX playing life.[*]EVERY one gets the VRs. every 3 months like clockwork, everyone gets the next VR in sequence.
No have/have-nots. just not-have---YET.[/list]Perfectly equal, perfectly fair.
If you want fairness, . . . The oldest vets, did not get their FIRST VR ... for over TWO years. If you want fairness, should new vets have to wait two years for their first VRs?

EVERY player is a Veteran.. of a certain number of months. The VRs are for EVERY player, each as soon as it is earned. . . . and every player is earning them, every 3 months.

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[ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]Stamina has a level requirement of level 20, and 2 prerequisites. Stamina is a tier 4 power. Health is tier 3. You'd be able to get Health with no prereqs, but you'd still have to have 2 powers and level 20 for Stamina.

[/ QUOTE ]

*nitpick* There are no tier 4 powers. Health is tier 2 and Stamina is tier 3. Hurdle and Swift are both tier 1.

But, yes, you are correct that there have not been any dev posts saying that the pre-reqs for tier 3 have changed so if Fitness followed the same route it would not free up Stamina early for anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, Fitness was not included in the announcement, only travel powers.
Otherwise, I agree with your interpretation of the tiers.

And for the travel powers, Ex, in the OP for this thread announced [ QUOTE ]
City Traveler Badge: Hit the ground running… this badge unlocks access to the following Power Pools at level 6, so players can access Tier 1, 2, or 3 powers early on.

[/ QUOTE ] for travel powers for 60 month VR.

So, since nothing has been announced for fitness at all, no early Stamina.

But for 60VR, it does look like tier3 is included, for travel pools.

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[ QUOTE ]
I think they should just allow people to buy Vet rewards early. That way you can wait get em for free, or if your one of the noobs screaming DOOOOM!! you can just open up your wallet and pay $5 per reward.

[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly opposite of the purpose of Vet rewards.
The purpose from the devs point of view, from the good-of-the-game POV.

From those POV,
The ONLY purpose for VR is to keep people paying and playing longer . . PERIOD.
To get people to play for 5 years, yes. But also to get groups of people who would have quit after 12 months, to play 24 instead. etc. to keep people from taking 3 to 12 month breaks from the game, etc. (Those can turn into complete quit easily.)


There are silly things mixed in, like kilts and boxing shorts. But spaced regularly in there are nice shinies. Being able to just cherry-pick the shiny rewards early, stops the sequence of waiting for the next GOOD VR.

VRs and the way the GOOD VRs are spaced out through the list, keep people playing, or at least paying... keeps us playing longer than we would have, and discourages us from taking breaks.


Picking and choosing early completely breaks the purpose for VetRewards.

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OK, searched.. and I WAS wrong...

There were TWO merge dates...

July 16, last year LH said:

"What happened last year (as announced here) was giving all existing and former players who only had one side (CoH for example, but not CoV) was the other side. However, this didn't apply to any boxes sitting on store shelves. Now, if you find a CoH box and buy it, you get the other side."

_____________________________________

Sooo, we are back to square one in whether the article was wrong or not.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No... He meant that if you used it to create a new account, you would have 12 slots per server.

There are still people who created their account with a basic CoH package after the combo amnesty date.
THEY have 10 slots per server, I believe.

Ex meant that adding this package to your lower slot account will not take you up to 12 slots per server.

ETA: pending further clarification, I might be wrong. . . (see the next post.)
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[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone who plays this game has 12 open slots on every server, with the potential to buy or claim up to 36. There has never been 10 on a server. Only 8 for each COH and COV separately, 12 when you put them on the same account, and 12 ever since they opened both sides to all accounts.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, yes, It had been so long I forgot. 8, not 10.

But I am pretty sure IF you started a new account AFTER the amnesty open both sides date, with an OLD CoH box.... You now have 8 per. And/or only one side.


(Again, I haven't done that. I could be wrong... but pretty sure that is what they said)
ETA: OOps I aM wrong... see next post.

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No... He meant that if you used it to create a new account, you would have 12 slots per server.

There are still people who created their account with a basic CoH package after the combo amnesty date.
THEY have 10 slots per server, I believe.

Ex meant that adding this package to your lower slot account will not take you up to 12 slots per server.

.

[/ QUOTE ]

honestly, i'm asking because the mmorpg.com COH correspondent is making a ruckus about the mac pac and is claiming that you get 12 extra character slots and everyone else is wrong. kinda... weird.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218717

[/ QUOTE ]
Interesting.

My guess is that MMORPG might have gotten it wrong...
But I did NOT create a new acount.
I added to existing account. And I might be misunderstanding too.

We can hope that Ex will come clarify the clarification.

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[ QUOTE ]
i use it when i log on, get on a team and that team is in another zone and already in the mish.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have used it that way several times now too.
Great way to start out your session!

Especially since with Day Jobs, I may be more likely to park in another zone than the one I am likely to run missions in.
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No... He meant that if you used it to create a new account, you would have 12 slots per server.

There are still people who created their account with a basic CoH package after the combo amnesty date.
THEY have 10 slots per server, I believe.

Ex meant that adding this package to your lower slot account will not take you up to 12 slots per server.

ETA: pending further clarification, I might be wrong. . . (see the next post.)
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[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that feels 2 hours is a bit excessive a cooldown for the Mission Transporter power?

[/ QUOTE ]

You weren't even anywhere NEAR the first one to mention it in THIS thread.

So, . . . Why the fuss? This is just another handy tool. To make it so it is ready every mission or two, would really be game breaking.
We have been assured that Purchasable items will NOT be game breaking items. They are supposed to just be nice shinies that are fluffy icing for the cake.
________________________________


But REALLY! Why do you really need more anyway?

Out of 5-10 missions, most of them are a pretty short jaunt. Not enough to even wait for the extra animation time in many cases. You don't need to tp to 90% of your missions. It would be silly. It is a situational tool, for when you need it.

Will you REALLY receive your next mission, and say,
"Wow! 496 yards.... I sure wish the mish tp was recharged!" ?!?

I have used it a few times just for the heck of it.
But the times it has come in handiest for me, has been when I had just leveled in the mish. Often, I will skip going to level, because of how annoying it is to leave the team standing at the mish tapping their toes.
But with the mish tp, I just head right to the trainer, level, and then mish tp to the mish. I didn't leave them standing. I beat a couple of the others who had run for a drink or something.


Silly to use for quick jaunts... What does it accomplish to beat everyone else to the door?
But when I need to do something quick in RL, or level, or the mish is several zones away... Then it is handy.


And two hour recharge seems to work just fine for that!
(YMMV. If you want it, buy it. If you don't, then don't. relax.)

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[ QUOTE ]
Well this stinks... I have to wait two months till I can buy it as a stand-alone? D:

[/ QUOTE ]
Translation:
"Right now, I could get the MacPack for 20... $15 worth of playtime, +$5 for the Shinies.
Dangit! I hafta wait 2 months to pay $5 extra for the Shinies alone!"
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[ QUOTE ]
I'd just like to be reassured that there are female versions of the costume items, and that they look good. Considering that a valkyrie is traditionally female, it's odd that the pictures have focused almost entirely on male characters.

But the mission teleporter is tempting, even with the two hour recharge.

[/ QUOTE ] Yup... The Female outfit is as good as the male.... very similar

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I am off till January 4th!

But that doesn't matter a lot.
I get to play CoX at work, too!

Well, I have gotten pretty addicted to the nifty flight pack for a few extra bucks with the monthly time card.

Toss that into the deal, and I'm yours.
Without the flight pack, meh.

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[ QUOTE ]
I couldn't think of a clever caption.
#1

[/ QUOTE ]

"Dang kids! . . . They tied my shoe tethers together again ! ! !"

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[ QUOTE ]
OK, not even going to read all the other replys. Simply going to join the whining that it isn't fair that the Apple people get exclusive costumes. Not fair to those of us who have been supporting the game.

[/ QUOTE ]Ya, ... It WILL be something you can get.

No whinin. If ya want it, Buy it.

Although, I wouldn't have objected if it had been exclusive.
I enjoy a few of those little things in this game that you can tell something about that person just by looking at their character or the powers their alt uses.




ETA: I would add "Woot! First post after a redname", but there have been so many redname posts this thread, that it is not a big deal here! 8D

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