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I would describe that combination as "Energy intesive, slow to kill more than one target, and squishy"
I've not played them together, but I have played them separately, and I think those set's together would let each of their weaknesses shine rather than emphasizing any strengths. -
Quote:I really do like fire breath. I got used to it on my first character (fire blaster) and have loved it ever since. The real key to FB is to jump back from the spawn, blow, it, then jump back in. If you do that when a spawn is clumped around you, and you can hit the target cap easily with it and it does a pretty respectable amount of damage. I take combat jumping on all my melee characters, so hopping out and back into a spawn has just become second nature, and the half second delay is worth it in how many enemies I hit with it.First, Electric has more AoE than Lightning Rod and Jacob's Ladder. You have Chain Induction (which is no longer bugged), Thunderstrike, Jacob's Ladder, and Lightning Rod.
Second, Jacob's Ladder is a cone. Players treat it as a single-target attack with a chance to hit others, but it really isn't that hard to reliably hit more than one target without slowing down your attack chain.
Thirdly, when it comes to dealing AoE damage to multiple opponents at once, no other melee power set has as many AoE attacks to consistently deal damage to more than one opponent. It suffers a lack of single target damage for this.
It is also true that the pseudo-pets have a lower damage cap, which means that Lightning Rod is much more effective on a scrapper, having a higher base damage, and not being limited by fury.
I agree with everything except for your claim about fire breath. I would not place FSC+FB in the same AoE category as LR+CI+JL+TS. I don't think any other set offers the potential for a completely sustained AoE attack chain.
As to elec, I've honestly just always felt that none of the attacks other than lightning rod have a decent reach, and chain induction on a brute is just disappointing after my elec/shield scrapper. I really, really hate thunder strike with a passion. Most melee AoEs are either a forward projecting cone or a PBAoE, but TS is a targeted AoE with a tiny radius that requires you to be in melee range. Honestly, TS turned me off of elec permanently, so I'll go ahead and put that bias out there. -
On the OP:
I can see this being a workable idea if, and only if, they combined the two upgrades in each powerset into one upgrade, and moved it up to 12 or 18. This would obviously be all kinds of violation of the cottage rule, and will never happen.
But even then, you'd have to sacrifice power slots to take personal attacks, which weakens your ability to support your henchmen.
If it replaced other powers, that would suck, as it would obviously not replace the personal attacks. Thugs would lose gang war, robotics would lose repair (which I actually quite like on my bots/traps, its saved my assbot any number of times), mercs wouldn't miss serum too much, but overall I don't think the sacrifice would ever be worth the gain.
Last, the power would need to desummon your pets and then resummon them once dropped, else it truly would be worthless. A better iteration of this power would be a pet sacrifice power, that let you kill your currently summoned pets in order to give yourself a host of powers and buffs. If you want an example of the idea in action, check out WoW warlocks and Meta form (though that one doesn't require a pet sacrifice).
Rather than making this a standard mastermind power, I think it would be better to just fit it into demon summoning where serum, repair, gang war, etc are.
Masterminds are a pet class. Say what you want about lore, comics, whatever, the fact is that the actual class concept is pets.
Quote:The biggest issue with pet insp that I see is that you cannot drop an inspiration onto a pet unless the pet is not currently executing an attack, it can be frustrating to try to drop a green or a red onto your assault bot when he's flamethrowing all over the place. You can however queue an inspiration that will execute the next opportunity.You could simulate this effect by eating a tray full of inspirations.
I'm not a huge insp-muncher on any character, but least of all on my MM's, because I find it kind of fiddly to drop them on the pets, so they tend to stack up in my tray.
So eating a few lucks and damage pills for the final boss in a mission would definitely give you that "Ha ha! I've been holding back until now and letting my minions do the work! No face the true might of Doom!" feeling. Put your pets into bodyguard mode as well - that shifts power from them to you.
Best of all, you can do it today with what we have in game.
Try these commands.
/inspexec_pet_name (petname) (inspiration)
/inspexec_pet_target (inspiration)
I set up the following binds
/bind 1 "inspexec_pet_target righteous rage$$inspexec_pet_target focused rage$$inspexec_pet_target enrage"
/bind 2 "inspexec_pet_target uncanny insight$$inspexec_pet_target keen insight$$inspexec_pet_target insight"
/bind 3 "inspexec_pet_target phenomenal luck$$inspexec_pet_target good luck$$inspexec_pet_target luck"
/bind 4 "inspexec_pet_target resurgence$$inspexec_pet_target dramatic improvement$$inspexec_pet_target respite"
/bind 5 "inspexec_pet_target robust$$inspexec_pet_target rugged$$inspexec_pet_target sturdy"
These macros are awesome. They execute on the lowest order inspiration first, so if you've got an enrage and two righteous rage's and hit 1 twice, you'll use the enrage first, then one of the other two. If your tier 3 is in trouble, you can pound defensive follow with the pet selected and then mash 4 to drop an inspiration or two into it in about two seconds.
With the pet window open, dragging and dropping is not a problem anymore, just remember that if a pet is doing something at the time, it will only queue the last inspiration you tried to use. I've tried to drop a yellow and red on my assault bot in combat and only had the last one fire more times than I can count (which is when I figured out defensive follow will interrupt their attack chain long enough to get off two to four inspirations most of the time)
But it works, and works well. Its easily reachable from wasd movement controls as well. I keep a full row of blues and a full row of greens at all times, for emergency healing of myself and my bots (bots/traps) and a row of two awakens and some break frees. The rest cycle constantly as I drop whatever shows up there into whatever bots. Lucks on protectors which have taken hits to soft cap them, yellows, and reds on the assault bot, oranges on whatever I select first to get them out of the way for more inspiration drops, and extra greens on anything thats not at full health. -
Quote:Alright. Made the changes you mentioned, I like them thusfar. 96 hps regen with full RTTC, I took a taunt out of it and put it into fast healing, and made the changes. Looked up Panacea, and you're right, not going anywhere near that until the day long in the future when I might have billions and several well built characters. Replaced it with regen tissue, which I should be able to farm the merits for pretty easily.The Numina Proc benefits from the enhancement that is in the power, so putting it in fast healing instead of health, which you have unslotted for +heal enhancement, will double it's effectiveness. I'd also trade out those 2 lvl 50 heal IO's for a Numina heal, and a Numina Heal/End, both level 35+. Those plus 1 level 50 heal IO will get you to ~96% heal enhancement, as well as giving you a 12% regen bonus and a +HP bonus.
My favorite slotting for RttC is DW Heal, DW Heal/End, and a Heal IO, all level 50. As willpower, you can afford to skimp on end reduction a little bit in your toggles, and 26% end reduction is still decent.
An LotG 7.5 in heightened senses will probably help you a little bit with your primary chain that you were discussing with Werner.
That Panacea last I heard is pretty expensive, and you could probably get an entire purple set. Not sure which one you would want, just might help you with the recharge.
Looks pretty solid. It isn't exactly how I'd build a willpower, but it still looks good other than the things I mentioned.
Already got 3 LotG's in the build, not bothering with a 4th, those will definitely be the last additions. I've got the numbers he recommended for recharge with this setup.
Here's the build with all the changes discussed so far, just in case anyone else spots any issues they'd like to tell me about. Thanks very much to everyone who helped.
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1398;702;1404;HEX;| |78DAA593594F135114C7EF745A2AED74A3B485B2235B0506EA92B8249A289820105| |1115C101CEAA51D9D4C9B4EC3E68B1FC02D68E2936FAE1FC1F8E4D750BF894B3DCB| |6D13E3A393F6FFBBF79EFF3973EF9999C5DD19438847E78416BDE0589EB771AD50B| |52A15590D2DCB42C92D3BE5E29E080A21528DC0C6A274A434E7AD9AE55AD9E6EA8C| |DC92AE27CD55DB712AE51D594DCCB92559956ECD6C0C8CA572D93117A455B1DD224| |F2EDA35577A5E444D8AA51A8412349B73B76DCFDEB41DBBB6D7365BB10BE679C7DA| |971B8B965793D5BD0ED8530EFE4F707374D5034202F2C2778F6111FC9B8C0221F7C| |5274452AC60964659BA98A0488BC210E110E36950D9A0BA26745C1AFAE123D4193F| |0923BF0893BF0937204B57D5F5158DEA5D2784AE10DAB9FA2AF802ECF3054E50C49| |8661C273C0743504347DD1FE4C3B5F3E10EF71246F85413770969B0B7723DAD35C5| |37D469473721125691F00099E35C210391089FD017F94AE6E837C677C22D30C4780| |F7A6C9E8AC62F13DAF8146D79C201F812AA55096E559A7B94E68E75FCD5AA23DCAA| |DB9095542D48BE62DF0121DB4F659F8121C58640EA2347DE11BADF73A1B78C37FC0| |43E105A202BC3592233468582B0D4A9EED47916063DA2FB126054F4F2395E80A14B| |1DA0EB012DF5DE676C11FA8B8C12C326AC41568F2ADBC33D1F08112623849760E85| |365FB1E52CEC03E63871FE52E639B1FE538BF7F9035A8CA0E725F72DC971CF7651D| |0CC35C561FCED39D468F318E32F815F2816F8C7D622C4BA93A2C8DAB9761BC833A3| |19121F82162AA669B31CA9F8A32F84C536142DE60F009239035ADEA4D730BF27142| |B7BFF971C20F2EB1F0CFCA92BFF989098D56FAFCCD8FF3BFAE4F46A34EEBD510E83| |2CA1288B682A335943B385DC79185A34D94024EEB9F8DC64E63277143A7504EA39C| |41798CA66018248C62A04450A2283194384A12258D9245798D52FF038A0EF8EB| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Quote:I'm not too worried about achieving a perfect zero lag DPS chain, its more of a "which are the powers I want to be using". Though I'm looking into your suggestions. For gamblers cut I replaced an acc/damage with damage/recharge which got its recharge down to where you said. I took a slot out of tough and put it into GD and just added a recharge, getting it where you said it should be. I could probable take a taunt slot out of RTTC and put it somewhere if I needed to. I took one of the defensive slots out of DA and I'm at 44.9 melee defense with one application, so I now have the resistance proc in GC as well.DPS chain.: GD>GC------>SD>GC
1 DA chain: GD>GC------>SD>GC>DA>GC
2 DA chain: GD>GC>DA>GC>SD>GC>DA>GC
In other words, it's just a matter of inserting one or two DA>GC into the DPS chain as necessary for defense. However, for Willpower, since it doesn't benefit from recharge, and since it does benefit from defense, I'd probably forget about achieving the DPS chain.
Also, you don't have enough recharge to run ANY of those chains at the moment. One problem is Gambler's Cut, which needs to recharge in 1.58 seconds. That could be easily solved with a sixth slot, but you should really have an Achilles' Heel proc in that sixth slot, so solving it will be at least a little more complicated.
I'd probably recommend the 1 DA chain most of the time. As you have Divine Avalanche slotted, one will get you to the soft cap. However, you also don't have enough recharge on Golden Dragonfly to pull that off. You need to recharge in 5.94 seconds, and are at 7.43 seconds. One recharge IO would get you there, though I'm not specifically saying that that's your best slotting option.
When defense debuffed, you should then be able to smoothly transition into the 2 DA chain, but spend most of your time with just 1 DA to avoid losing TOO much DPS.
Just took some reshuffling. Thanks much =D
::Edit::
Also, just to make sure, I did fine with the willpower powers? I've not ever built a WP toon either, so I wanted to make sure I did what was needed on it. I used alot of generic IOs for it, since for many I only need to enhance one or two aspects. -
Simple concept. If you raise your difficulty to the right number of heroes/villains, you can access a TF. A simple request that would allow a solo player or a smaller group of players with the proper difficulty to play a mission.
Its frustrating. I have a several toons on servers that are dead about 80% of the time. I've logged on during weekday hours between 5-pm and 9 pm and found less than thirty people total logged onto the faction my character is playing in all level ranges. I'm about to be forced to transfer chracters to freedom simply because I cannot find groups outside of a day or two which a pre-arranged TF is run, and I cannot find six people willing to sit there while I run higher content. I've been trying to get merits for a few recipes for one toon on protector, and I'm forced to rerun low level Oroborous arcs because there are no teams to be had, anywhere.
The devs have already set up diminishing returns to prevent task force farming, would it be that bad if a solo character, or a duo or trio of close friends can run a mission themselves, without having to pad? We eliminated padding in normal missions, why not do it for task forces and strike forces?
The fact is, that this game does not have sufficient population to allow everyone on every server access to the content specifically designated as what you should be running. I do not like being locked out of PVE, and its frustrating because I have not seen a single strike force run in the month I've been back on villain side. Not one. There was one ITF call which I was rejected from because I was in the late 30s and most everyone else was higher.
I just want to be able to access content. This is especially true villainside where the characters are more solo friendly, and so there is less active teaming going on anyway. I'd love to experience some of the higher level content and strike forces, and as yet I've simply not had the opportunity.
Please change it. -
So now I've worked up a mids build, and would love suggestions.
Code:I went for a relatively purpleless build. I threw in one LotG which may or may not ever be placed, maybe when I hit 50 I'll just blow whatever merits I have on it. I put all the regen/recovery uniques in, which also may or may not be slotted.| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1398;692;1384;HEX;| |78DAA593594F135114C7EF745A6AF796DA16CA5A64AB9481BA242E0F268A2408285| |1525C101CEAA51D9D4C9B4EC3E68B1FC02D68F4C937D78F60FC26EA3771A967B934| |213E3A69FFBFB9F7FECF997BCEDC59DC99090BF1F882D0A2976CD375D76F941B66B| |D2E1BC16559AE3A35BB56D9157E2144EA60617D51DA521AF366D374CC6C7B76466E| |4AC795C68A65DBF5DAB66C24E69CAA6C48A7691CDC84976A35DB589066DD722A3C9| |8B59A8E74DD881A54AA4D584AD068CED9B25C6BC3B2ADE66EE7E5BA55362EDAE69E| |5C5F34DDA66CEC76C19EF2F07F8A9BA3ABE5151250149EFB0C93E0BDC728134A68D| |7C8AE8B024D75280C138E309EF9954DB47C9AD0716AF8A787D062FC228CFE264CFE| |21DC84289DB37BF443F9828C1530F894C1775AC3A9F034E314E10518FC9A46CFF57| |33947B99C63FD8451AE23CFA302179786A800A7D502294A14D46947B76025A45642| |3932C73934032B11AED013F946E6E877C60FC26D30C4B4207536364F49E3D7089D5| |71945DE1F631FEC09D5B104772CCDAD4A73E3BA0E75EC3877EC0E44255543926FD8| |B74FC80E52DAE76048B1C197FACC2B1F08BD1F39D17BC63B7E119F081D1095E1289| |119A7447E98EA564FEACED1FE7AAFC0784CF497A89C9760E85105F43CA498FE078C| |4DC26085516558845588EA5369FBA2942817244C4608AFC030A00EE8C0238AC9ED3| |1B6F9C5EE30B6F8BC807D48E51BE286E4B921F9D78435308C703E7DA4488F183BC9| |38C1E093E401DF38FBC4789672EB3035A1724F74C14D9F2864186982170C866AB61| |1A334535CD314D734152214C30CAE300251D3EA8C4DF3E92BC609BDDEF6C7093FB8| |C4C23F334BDEF69726349A19F0B6BFD1FFBABE840F9E15B88EC778196509A584B28| |A7217650DC544D94029D399FFDA8E8E9DC10D9D453987721EE5099AFC2190104A18| |2582124589A1C451922869942CCA5B94D65F0571F880| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
My questions now are more katana related, as in what's a normal Katana rotation? Should I just be rotating through my ST attacks, or is there a preferred set? I figured the +def and build up were logical, and then maybe just the two highest ST attacks I've got.
Check it out, give me feedback on my slotting and such. Like, Ive got two defense IOs in the +def power, are those needed or should I put those slots somewhere else, etc etc. Also, power choice order, as this is the build I'll be leveling by. -
Quote:Dead wrong. Claws beats SS by far in AoE potential, SS hedges it out on single target(barely). SS is more popular, not better.Best AoE for a Brute? That would be SS, although you have to wait till 32 to get the AoE lol. Even though it's only one attack minus the epic AoE it's the best. FS + Rage is great and has a huge radius.
Why do you think SS/Fire and SS/Shield are considered the best farming builds?
Of fire and electric, fire is the better choice. A well slotted fire sword circle will do more damage overall than Electric's AoEs because elec only has one truly decent AoE attack. Jacobs ladder is not an AoE, its a single target attack capable of hitting an enemy or two extra if they are standing directly behind the target. (I know its classified as an aoe, but hitting 3 enemies of 30 packed around you just does not count imo)
Fire will give you excellent single target damage, and FSC makes for decent AoE, if you really want more AoE, take a patron AoE and slot it out to give you a three move chain with build up, which will be fine for high level farming. Fire breath is also superior to most of Elec's AoEs if you really want to take it. -
Updating , I set up a Katana/WP. I've got a claws/sr brute and a fire/SD scrapper, so this one seemed logical and I like Katana's speed and lower end cost compared to broadsword.
For pools, I'm thinking fighting, possibly fitness, leaping (my default choice for anything melee's travel) and something else. Maybe leadership, maybe stealth. I've only got one hero in the 40s and its a troller, so I'm thinking I want kd or kb in my APP for waltzing in and smacking down an alpha. I had the idea of stealth and an Unbound leap stealth to combat jump into mobs and hit them with a power that stops them from attacking me for a second to break alphas, my claws brute is really loving shockwave as a way to walk up and smack enemies into a wall to keep them from nailing me at once, but then she's almost softcapped so it doesn't really matter for her. -
I've already rolled a bots/dark on freedom that's going hero the second GR comes out.
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Using knockback judiciously is no harder than telling someone "face a wall and let fly". Its easy to teach and easy to learn, and its no different from a melee character positioning themselves for a cone AoE attack, except easier because you can usually be at range.
Seriously, every problem I've ever had with someone using knockback has been fixed by telling them "knock them into walls" or "Turn off hurricane". Ive never had to kick someone from a group because of it, though I've definitely kicked tanks and scrappers from teams before for complaining about having to chase a minion or two that were knocked around by an energy blaster and begging to have knockback users kicked.
To each their own. I'd rather play with someone who can be taught how to use their powerset better than with someone who's willing to ***** constantly about their XP per hour being dented. I'll take newbies over whiners any day, and it never ceases to amaze me how badly the whiners outnumber the newbies on any given day. -
Quote:None of that makes any senseI think mainly because it would cover nearly every type of debuff, that being, damage, to hit, defense, and resitance. No other MM debuff set can do that and it would become the best set you can pick for MMs and it would be fire/kin trollers or fire/psy doms all over again.
Plust it has a good fast recharging PBAoE heal with a bigger AoE than /Dark, along with a speed and recharge buff in AM.
Not saying it shouldn't be brought to MMs, I would gladly welcome it, but at this point it would just be to good for MMs IMO.
1) They reduced TG's heal radius, they could do the same with rads heal, though dark's heal is about twice as powerful, so it wouldn't be neccesary.
2) AM would be a terrible MM buff. Most MMs don't need recharge, or the extra recovery, which leaves... running speed? If MMs get /rad I'd like to see AM replaced with something that actually helps your pets.
3) Traps can debuff damage, tohit, defense, regen, and resistance. Dark can debuff damage, tohit, regen, and resistance, as well as having three control powers and an extra pet. Poison can debuff defense, damage, tohit, and resistance. Not only that, but traps and dark beat out Rad in survivability by miles.
Personally, if you were going to say any powerset was unbalanced for MMs, dark and traps would rate far, far above rad on the list. Dark only has to deal with one toggle, traps has to deal with none. Rad by comparison will draw aggro directly to the mastermind. The rad dead-teammate nuke would be just as worthless to an MM as it is to everyone else unless they let you use it on your minions (not likely). And the huge recharge PBAoE hold is incredibly lackluster in a class that cannot otherwise stack its own holds.
I think, honestly, that /rad is not on MMs because the devs looked at how it functions and realized that while it offers some good powers, it also would need some changes to really work well for masterminds. At the very least, AM and EM Pulse would need to be looked at. While I can see them giving us Rad at some point, I don't see it happening until they've had time and care to tweak it the way they've adjusted some of the other powersets. And unlike /dark or /traps, that means more than just nudging some buff numbers down or decreasing a heal radius. -
Bots/dark is hands down the most survivable possible character in the game. Once you get fluffy slotted out, nothing will ever kill you unless you screw up really, really badly or go AFK for an extended period. Alternating Twilight Grasp and provoke with fluffy out means that something has to do somewhere around 10k dps to overcome your healing, or pound you with enough AoE to take down your bots between heals (a very, very short window)
Dark is only slightly more active than traps, you'll find once you get fluffy that you seldom bother with darkest night, because either you kill it too fast to matter or it can't kill you fast enough to justify wasting the endurance. I use darkest night when others have aggro, and don't bother when things are going after me.
Storm, by comparison, actually requires some thought. Its heal is piddly and weak, and so you rely on debuffs and knockdown. Storm actually has potentially the highest damage of any secondary combined with bots, if you take Mu and electric fences and six slot it you can loose tornados on bosses and they'll sit there getting slaughtered.
The weakness of storm is that its a late bloomer, and its comparitively weak on hard targets (in comparison to traps, poison, and dark at least). Its definitely a fun set to play, and its definitely different. /Traps allows you to steamroll, or to set up a gauntlet of pain, but the only thought required is "here's a corner, set stuff up here, piss off people, run to corner and hide till things go boom". Storm, by comparison, makes you think. Gale something the wrong way and you wipe yourself, but on the other hand you can use steamy mist to move slowly into position to gale an 8 player spawn into a wall, drop your slows, and watch the spawn literally melt in about four seconds. Its not so much about setting something up as it is just forethought and planning how you want each spawn to die. It gives you a very fun feeling of control over your encounters, bots/storm won't die unless you screw up, and you can get up, go back in, and fix what you did taking down even AVs with hardly a scratch.
I do also feel obligated to tell you that bots/storm will get you kicked from teams once in a while before the mission starts. They check you out and all that registers is "Knockback, knockback, knockback, and more knockback... /kick!" Bots/dark on the other hand will be welcomed with open arms, because everyone loves the darkies. -
You've never been to a Mexican soccer match. I have, and I ended up in the middle of a massive fight between a few players and fans of the opposite team, and quite literally had to fight my way to a different part of the stadium. Punching, kicking, and a few arm locks later, I realized that the fight followed me around the stadium at which point I left and went home.
No, I am not even close to kidding. -
I've been playing this game a month after quitting when Enhancement Diversification hit. Came back and I hear all of this stuff about willpower, and I want to understand the set, but after looking through the tanker, scrapper, and brute guides for it I don't really feel any better off except for slotting ideas than I did before.
I'm not looking for "give me a build to use" so much as I'm looking to understand why a build is good, or why it sucks. I've gotten alot of "this power should be slotted this way" information, but I haven't gotten the picture of how willpower fits together as a whole and functions, which is something I always have to do before I roll a set.
So my questions are as follows
1) What is willpower strong at and what is it weak at?
2) What is the best way to address or mitigate the negative aspects (like the alpha vunerability I've heard so much about)
3) If someone could post a build for Mids and explain it in detail, Id love you forever, preferably high end expensive ish build, with a mind towards maximixing strenghts
4) Aid self and willpower, genius idea or stupid idea?
I'm posting this here because, for better or worse, I hate the tanker class. The only tank I ever loved was my fire tanker, which they gutted one day long ago when they added a fear component to burn patches. -
I've always liked the concept of Gravity, and I can never make myself level one.
Give me controller /traps, and I'll roll one in an instant though. Wormhole + traps sounds absoltely unbalanced in how sadistically fun it would be, I'd love to wormhole a spawn into a trip mine field. -
Redside there is no substitute for bots/traps. I was soloing +x3 by 24 and x6 once I hit 32, with an IO build that cost me about 10 million at 25 with IOs added as I get slots. Its faster than anything else because its got ridiculous AoE and even more ridiculous survivability.
Blueside, a fire or claws scrapper with regen or wp will be the easiest. Shield defense is also great if you can get someone to level you up into stamina levels, my fire/SD scrapper tears up the world now that he's got stamina and room for a few attacks plus toggles and the end and slotting to support it.
If you're on a populated server, you can get just about any controller up quick as well, as a decent support toon never lacks for teaming. -
I don't like regen based toons, and a largely regen based toon without a heal sucks. I don't like the idea of being at less effectiveness because I don't have ten minions around me at all times. I also love sets with good AoE, and the fact is that RTTC and AoE are working at cross purposes.
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Local will probably be here soon, so I'll go ahead and link his guide to annoy him.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=141225
Thats a great starting point.
Now, what do you want? Building for Perma PA and building for softcap are not possible together, you have to gather about 100% +recharge just from set bonuses to get PA down into perma range. However, with Perma PA softcapped defenses are relatively unneccesary, as PA will hold everything's attention and do a decent bit of damage besides.
Generally, the way illusion works is you drop in PA on a spawn, move in close enough for your phantasm to engage, drop your toggles on a Lt and start spamming single target attacks on the highest priority target. With a decently slotted blind anything thats not EB or above will be held. You've got other help (like the rad nuke) for emergency situations as well.
This will be expensive, you need multiple purple sets to get enough recharge, and then ancillary powers present a choice. I'll post two of my builds, one of which is just barely perma PA, but with care paid you can keep PA out long enough to handle anything. Its a bit harder to pull the recharge out of a build without a defensive ancillary shield to drop another LOTG into.
Here's with stone mastery, which is my favorite. You take risks running into melee, but with stone you get AoE, extra S/L defense, and a retardedly strong short range single target attack with a huge mag hold attached to it. I like the extra S/L defense with this build, as it comes in handy for the times when you do have something focus on you.
Code:This is my less favorite, but its got the fire pool for extra AoE damage and ST damage from range. PA's recharge is a bit higher, losing the ancillary defensive shield was hard to make up for with bonuses in other places, but you can still have a short enough gap that you can manage. When facing AVs you should have PA ready to fire as soon as its up, as in select the power and pick where you're going to spawn it before its up.| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1417;702;1404;HEX;| |78DAA593D94F13411CC7677B58DA6E69A19CE5EA4129B4B250AF78249A084551AA1| |5084F40AD65814DD696749744DFFC03F4451F7C326A8C1AE3BB51F937140CFA2768| |3C5F7CAABF630ABCDBA4DFCFCC6F7ED7CCECE46F4DAA42DC392794D08459B2ACE24| |4B562D7AAA6A9D7DCF9D29A51161E214462DFDA70D0A64D73D332AA9586217EC0E7| |FCE6EAAA365B5A314A367AE46E1A16BAB64C57D6F59A5EB1B5C6C05FA842AA29D35| |85BB75B693CAF9BFA46B56653A4CACB865DD12DCB4793B90D5D5F69CD6D18656DCE| |AE56F462BE64D97AED7617B43902FFC78A90BFBA4B641D42648543638C125CE38C3| |1C29583EE38C98A43338CCB84A6AB8C3CE1092847D4DDCA27C8D027D4A4C095DE1D| |9A253E12063F30B6090508715258DDE1BC4775871E1052F7095E3864373B08773B5| |5C2B21E36393D6FC92BF486F19ED0B54578063E5EE9E7E5505F1B234450C3842494| |F073E7C29FA696FD600AB0C911D8A56CCD9F195F084F2132280F27B848A6B6EB8C2| |542FF32A348780EEE2DDC8ABB65824CADBF193F081D3F19192A1FF9453337741196| |7B0F2768C503A676795EED0BD47EE41220255267153CD02670E8940E9D7C845D510| |AED7F48B35958ECE6CE956E2ED71B23BC80951EB9E99E1DCA1DDB260CEE12AE6105| |CEADF4714C9AF112AC03F2F207786351DE5894B712FD4E88F136637F08731015970| |5E3AFA944E21583D3E20693326D729ABF8E8B8C1C7F249384F405C2E814E1AB5388| |617937C327C8347294718C7184A38E13FEC22BCFC822990C990EA719C38C14671F6| |28C10BE41114DDEA8C61FD7583323C8F011B201864A88C3ED8CCB131CE7C3CFCA3B| |70EDBD362122649A39681A2553C1B5F7C884C2817DFB5EFFF57BA736F278677DA0F| |32805106501478B284B385DC65109473750CA38AD6FED45074F6243A7504EA39C41| |B98B4E1E7C647E14152580D28C124409A184513A5022288F50EAFF00A8C7FA48| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1416;703;1406;HEX;| |78DAA593594F135114C7EF74B194B6B465A750E86265B385BAC525D144288A52AD4| |0786271840126195BD219127DF303E01A15D7A84131C677A3F235DC22A81FC1ED03| |D4B3DC02EF36E9FF77EF99FF39F79E7B67B297FABD425C392694409FA19AE6545F2| |16F150B86A1159D59754E9F162E21447C2B5A36A4060D63D1D40BF97220B6CD737C| |71763635ACCEE8AA858ECC45DD446B70303FAF15B5BC952A0F3CB902941A30F4B97| |9AB9AC6A39AA12D148A16657AF9B16EE535D3ACA4C9C882A6CD04330BFA34C48BDA| |5456352DAD78B91176D909FF278A90BF9243A46D42A4852DC548121CBD8C1EC299E| |D769CA4C58E21C66942C5594696F014549176E50B54080BEF27C60742CB6742FC23| |21075E3BF94B4EFB122D18BD4AD8758DD07E9DD0738390BE4970C3893B394B38EB6| |85DDC848B4376D75B7205DE30DE131AD7082BE071B3CFE6E6D4CA5A46809080DA1E| |6E4078BA04863C10F271C8E6FB4A65AAD6191B846790E96783D33F4EA1DAF38C094| |2EB24638ABB50092F202B287B0FF651A8FA2FE317A1FE37A39B7611FA4333276CA6| |46F65E13A7272E08D5C99EEAC6A88BD02940BB683FAAE0295780A1411A1A6EF1714| |428B5759966C3F0B0891B509A78B9962861159E34CBFB6CFE41B5A31B849DEB8C6F| |8CEF8473B81EAFA484B94217E32544DB64A1366E33C26D46B8B1C84FBE7E6E7A04E| |C3179E6B1D7543BFE8AC1F5B0CF843CF3C420BF322719197E73FA095D2708C901C2| |73BB101D72171D0728D4B997B18FB187B3F6F3DB02F66E7945DD8F041EE9EE878C7| |B8C6542F23EE3016115B2528A427B4FDDE6F7F72EE30E2106F7D12B4FA9978F3B2D| |4FDDB1F9B50911A2D0D0F650924239C7E64726144E0C6FB9FEEBF7CE5BAEE31EAE0| |41D45C9812863381A4799C0E9248E541C5D4099C669696D33DB7F10377408E530CA| |11942534B9F0EBF2A078517C2855287E94004A0D4A3D4A08E5314AE91F6266FF4B| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Bots, thugs, or necro
/Traps, /FF or /Dark for secondary.
Any combination therein will be decently powerful and easy to learn. Masterminds are simple as long as you give her a set of pet macros, which will make her handling of any set much, much easier.
I have Attack, follow, goto defensive, set all pets to passive with no positional command (hit defensive follow or goto then passive to make the pets stay where you want them) and set all pets to aggressive with no positional command (for hunting strays in a defeat all)
I've got defensive goto and defensive follow set to Q and E, and those two macros get me through 90% of encounters. Defensive follow will clear your pets aggro list and return them to you and defensive goto will send them somewhere without clearing aggro list, allowing you to move them with no breaks in attacks. I've actually become so habitual about hitting E to return my bots to defensive follow when running around a mission that I do it alot on other characters. -
Quote:Can't run CoH test, it conflicts with something on my system that I've installed (haven't figured out what yet) and crashes back to the desktop when I try to actually load the server.play both on test server and see which one YOU like more. Now, it is how you enjoy to play and what you like now that you have a plan.
Can run CoH just fine, but not test, can't explain why. I get errors relating to my ATI drivers, but they're updated to current stable release for Windows 7. Im not at the point where I'm about to reinstall windows to get on test or anything, so I've let it be. I've e-mailed CoH, Windows 7, and ATI tech support to try to figure it out, no luck so far.
Even if I could get on test though, I still like the opinions of others who have played the sets, my highest melee is a claws/sr brute atm, at 23. -
Quote:I was just clarifying on a position and being slightly sarcastic. I get that way.I use all three very well and without a problem. I agree with your opinion. I even agree with each point. I did not say take it over FSC or SC. I said take it with them.
I use SC, then FSC. Then I jump away from the herd and fire BoF which will hit most of the spawn. The pure fire damage will take a nice chunk out and will have benefit of AAO when you time it right.
and calling it "teh suck" was not my words... but the poster above me.
Now, here's a question.
Breath of fire vs Cremate.
I've worked up builds with both, and at this point I still think I like cremate more than BOF, because it can replace fire sword in my single target rotation and it does more damage for .2 sec more cast time. I also finally let the "ranged def" thing you guys have kept smacking me with sink into my brain and added two defense IOs to deflection to up its resists a bunch while still maintaining defense. Net loss of like .1 EPS and with the Phalanx fighting bug I'm now at like 47% Ranged 46.2% Melee and 44% AoE. With Aid self and combat jumping on, I'm comfy with the not capped AOE, worst case I'll have no trouble hopping around a pillar or corner to heal and then turning around to AoE everyone who's chasing me.
This is Cremate, currently favored build with everything described above.
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Quote:This is what I was looking for. And yeah, I've got a ton of high level Masterminds, a few controllers, but I'm just now foraying into pure damage dealers, I just like support skills too much.I'd redo the build. If you're not going to take shield charge, make a /SR toon. They're easier to soft cap and allow you to take the fire melee powers you want.
With that said, I'd take shield charge over any of the AoEs you've chosen. Breath of fire is marginal in its usefulness IMO and is completely overshadowed by fire sword circle and shield charge.
The order in which you take your powers bothers me too. As a scrapper, you want to take your mez protection (active defense) as soon as it's available. When I see builds delay it, I automatically think the builder doesn't have experience in making melee characters or it's a concept build gimped on purpose.
I'd also take Battle Agility, AAO and Phalanx Fighting way earlier. You have them way too late in your build.
Also, you have way more positional defense than you need. Anything in excess of 45% is a waste for the most part. I'd move things around to get more recharge, recovery and regen.
Lastly, you have to be happy with your build, and that's all that matters; however, I'd hate playing your build.
Breath of fire = teh suck, thats important information.
So I took the original build and remade it based on some suggestions here. I dropped fire breath for shield charge later, and what I'm thinking is that I'll hump it up to 27 on normal enhancements, and then switch to my second build (that I'll post below) when I can take incinerate to change slotting and start putting some IOs in. I find myself doing that alot lately, like the bots/traps I made recently where I took both personal attacks and switched out of them once I had both protectors.
Sheild charge will be up to open every spawn and I can follow up with fire sword circle and single attacks. I guess if SS can get by with only one AoE from its primary I can do it with fire.
Only one purple set plus some expensive single IOs. The LOTGs will likely be the last addition to the build, but I put them in because given enough time playing a character I will start adding them to the build one by one. I'm no longer ridiculously over the softcap, Kick is no longer at level 6 to provide a power to help level, etc.
Grant Cover got pushed to the very top, I didn't think it was too big a deal though. If I'm wrong, correct me, as I'm still working this on theory and my fire/SD is at like level 6 atm.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Fighting
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- (A)(3)(3)(5)(5)(7)
Level 1: Deflection -- (A)(7)(9)(9)(11)(11)
Level 2: Cremate -- (A)(31)(31)(34)(37)(39)
Level 4: True Grit -- (A)(13)(13)(15)
Level 6: Battle Agility -- (A)(15)(17)(17)(19)(19)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- (A)(27)(27)(31)
Level 10: Active Defense -- (A)(21)
Level 12: Build Up -- (A)(21)(23)(23)(25)(25)
Level 14: Super Jump -- (A)(29)(29)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- (A)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- (A)(39)(39)(40)(40)(40)
Level 20: Hurdle -- (A)
Level 22: Health -- (A)(42)(42)
Level 24: Stamina -- (A)(42)(43)
Level 26: Incinerate -- (A)(43)(43)(45)(45)(45)
Level 28: Aid Other -- (A)
Level 30: Aid Self -- (A)(46)(46)(46)(50)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- (A)(33)(33)(33)(34)(34)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- (A)(36)(36)(36)(37)(37)
Level 38: Phalanx Fighting -- (A)
Level 41: Kick -- (A)
Level 44: Tough -- (A)
Level 47: Weave -- (A)(48)(48)(48)(50)(50)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- (A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- (A)
Level 1: Sprint -- (A)
Level 2: Rest -- (A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
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Set Bonus Totals:- 19.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 19.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 9.88% Defense(Smashing)
- 9.88% Defense(Lethal)
- 8.94% Defense(Fire)
- 8.94% Defense(Cold)
- 11.8% Defense(Energy)
- 11.8% Defense(Negative)
- 6.13% Defense(Psionic)
- 16.8% Defense(Melee)
- 20.5% Defense(Ranged)
- 14.9% Defense(AoE)
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 33% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 65% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 10% FlySpeed
- 85.3 HP (6.37%) HitPoints
- 10% JumpHeight
- 10% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -8)
- Knockup (Mag -8)
- MezResist(Held) 8.8%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 15.4%
- MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
- 6.5% (0.11 End/sec) Recovery
- 10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 7.56% Resistance(Fire)
- 7.56% Resistance(Cold)
- 3.13% Resistance(Negative)
- 5% Resistance(Toxic)
- 10% RunSpeed
Feedback always appreciated, thanks for those who've helped thusfar.
::Edit:: Forgot Data Chunk
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Quote:Since the topic is already here, I'd like to submit mine for critique as well.I would move the Miracle +recov to Health. You also have a free slot or two in Combat Jumping. There is an error with Phalanx Fighting not counting Ranged damage. No need for the Blessing of the Zephyr in CJ.
The build looks good otherwise. I went a different route for mine, but I like Breath of Fire. It really helps with farming IMO.
I wanted a /SD build with Aid self, and I had to make sacrifices to fit it in. I gave up shield charge, which I am definitely not happy about.
What I'm thinking is that I'll have two builds, one being for exemping. At low levels I can't help but take both cremate and fire sword, but once I hit the 30s and get both incinerate and fire sword and get them slotted I'm thinking I won't need it, which would clear up a power slot and full slotting for shield charge, and I could just take my secondary powers earlier to fit in the build. That would give me three single target and three AoE attacks.
I'm theory crafting the entire thing though, and I have no experience with fire melee. Of the first three attacks, which two are most skippable? Is shield charge worth only taking one of them? Advice would be great.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Medicine
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- Dam%(A), Dmg/EndRdx(7), Dmg/Rchg(9), Dmg(9), Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 1: Deflection -- Rchg+(A), Def/EndRdx(3), Def/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Def(5), ResDam(5), ResDam/EndRdx(7)
Level 2: Cremate -- Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), Acc/Dmg(17), Dmg/EndRdx(17), Dmg/Rchg(19), Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 4: True Grit -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(19), ResDam-I(21), ResDam-I(21)
Level 6: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 8: Breath of Fire -- Dam%(A), Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Dmg/Rchg(23), Acc/Rchg(25), Dmg(25), Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- Rchg+(A), Travel(11), Travel/EndRdx(11), ResKB(13)
Level 12: Build Up -- Build%(A), ToHit/Rchg(27), ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(27), Rchg/EndRdx(29), ToHit(29), ToHit/EndRdx(34)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Travel(A), Travel/EndRdx(15), ResKB(15)
Level 16: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(45)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 20: Health -- Heal/+End(A), Rcvry+(40), Regen/Rcvry+(43)
Level 22: Stamina -- End%(A), EndMod(40), EndMod-I(40)
Level 24: Battle Agility -- Def(A), EndRdx(37), Def/EndRdx(37), Def/Rchg(39), EndRdx/Rchg(39), Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 26: Fire Sword Circle -- %Dam(A), Dmg(36), Acc/Rchg(36), Dmg/Rchg(36), Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 28: Aid Other -- Heal-I(A)
Level 30: Aid Self -- Heal(A), Heal/Rchg(31), Heal/EndRdx(31), Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(31), EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 32: Incinerate -- Dam%(A), Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Acc/Dmg(33), Dmg/EndRdx(34), Dmg/Rchg(34), Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 35: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Phalanx Fighting -- Rchg+(A)
Level 41: Greater Fire Sword -- Dam%(A), Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Dmg/EndRdx(42), Acc/Dmg(42), Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Tough -- ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 47: Weave -- Def(A), EndRdx(48), Def/EndRdx(48), Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), EndRdx/Rchg(50), Def/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- EndRdx-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
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Set Bonus Totals:- 15% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 15% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 15% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 15% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 15% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 15% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 15% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 15% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 8% Defense(Smashing)
- 8% Defense(Lethal)
- 7.38% Defense(Fire)
- 7.38% Defense(Cold)
- 11.8% Defense(Energy)
- 11.8% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 13% Defense(Melee)
- 20.5% Defense(Ranged)
- 11.8% Defense(AoE)
- 67.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 55% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 10% FlySpeed
- 95.4 HP (7.12%) HitPoints
- 10% JumpHeight
- 10% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -8)
- Knockup (Mag -8)
- MezResist(Held) 6.05%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 12.7%
- MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
- 13% (0.22 End/sec) Recovery
- 10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 8.82% Resistance(Fire)
- 8.82% Resistance(Cold)
- 5% Resistance(Toxic)
- 2.5% Resistance(Psionic)
- 10% RunSpeed
Set Bonuses:
Hecatomb
(Fire Sword)- 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
- 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
- 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 5% Resistance(Toxic)
(Deflection)- 10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 15.1 HP (1.12%) HitPoints
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Deflection)- 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
(Cremate)- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
- 15.1 HP (1.12%) HitPoints
- 7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 2.5% Resistance(Psionic)
(Breath of Fire)- 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
- 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
- 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Combat Jumping)- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Combat Jumping)- 3.13% Defense(Ranged), 1.56% Defense(Energy), 1.56% Defense(Negative)
- 3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)
- Knockback Protection (Mag -4)
(Build Up)- 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
- 25.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints
- 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
- 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
- 2.5% Defense(Melee), 1.25% Defense(Lethal), 1.25% Defense(Smashing), 2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative), 2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold)
(Super Jump)- 3.13% Defense(Ranged), 1.56% Defense(Energy), 1.56% Defense(Negative)
- 3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)
- Knockback Protection (Mag -4)
(Stamina)- 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
(Battle Agility)- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
- 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
- 2% DamageBuff(All)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative)
(Fire Sword Circle)- MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 3.75% Defense(Melee), 1.88% Defense(Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Smashing)
(Aid Self)- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
- 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Incinerate)- MezResist(Immobilize) 3.3%
- 20.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 3% DamageBuff(All)
- MezResist(Held) 3.3%
- 3.75% Defense(Ranged), 1.88% Defense(Energy), 1.88% Defense(Negative)
(Phalanx Fighting)- 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
(Greater Fire Sword)- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
- 20.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
- 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
- MezResist(Held) 2.75%
- 3.75% Defense(Melee), 1.88% Defense(Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Smashing)
(Tough)- 3% Defense(All)
(Weave)- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
- 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
- 2% DamageBuff(All)
- 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative)
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MA/SR was the default Batman from early beta on. Its almost as cliche as a Invul/SS/PM tankers with fly as superman.