poptart_fairy1

The AT changes completely when you branch into Bane/Crab (can't say much about Widows but they seem to do a lot better at lower levels than Soldiers). Stick with it, you'll think the effort was worthwhile when you get to 24.

And if you don't fudge the security levels and threat levels (assuming for the sake of argument they've all hit the cap), a guy in a tuxedo is the same threat level as a god who has the same threat level as a medic who has the same security level as a cop who has the same security level as a ten year old kid who has the same security level as a deadly assassin.



This is the kind of thing I'm talking about in regards to consistency.

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The answer? Because Security Level is used in the game world. Your ability to have a job, enter buildings, interact with civilians etc, etc ad nauseum is not.

We fudge aside game mechanics on how powers

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And I'm afraid this is where the argument loses me. Powers have an impact on your ability to interact with the game-world, as does the lack of a secret identity option, as does the lack of AI responding to you in anything other than a pre-defined way, etc. It just seems that, as I said, people are leaping all over the "security level = IC" part of the world but ignoring other aspects of it.

I can see where the argument is coming from so don't get me wrong there, but it's a little jarring to see this kind of inconsistency crop up. :/

That doesn't answer the question.

Why use THIS one mechanic ICly when there are so many others that get cast aside for the sake of simplicity? Where is the line drawn and why? Nobody actually answered the person who originally posted my quote.

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Onus can't be working at Up and Away, I can't even get in the door. Toxic can't be blackmailing NPC's for political gain, as they don't even interact with me and the effect isn't representable in game!

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I'd just like to bring this up again, as the original post seemed to get dismissed after the first example.

Putting aside the main argument for now, why is it that security levels are taken as a strictly IC representation of ability and survival above and beyond other game mechanics? It does strike me as a little unusual, and inconsistent, to roleplay or use things that aren't part of the core experience yet adhere to this one specific instance of it.

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Tell me. If you're tabletop gaming with D&D or similar; or hell, even playing chess or Monopoly. Do you throw the game's rule book down the toilet, or do you work within it? It's the same thing here.

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Bad idea to use DnD and tabletop gaming as examples there, FFM. Almost all of them actively encourage players to abandon or change rules as they see fit...

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There not, it says in teh CoV guide that while he does only some thing to slip, there are alot of things he does. That's why you have abriters and alot of the time you end up in a mission where you have to explain yourself to one or do one a favor (like the patron arcs) Not even his patrons are above his law of the law of the Abriters.

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Yeah, basically. Survival of the fittest, but not anarchy. Attacking civilians, for instance, is something that's highly taboo within the Isles - it's one of the main reasons the Vahzilok haven't got a big powerbase there. Arachnos hit them hard.

Actually, sod this.

Praf, you've shown yourself to be an arrogant, delusional little tosspot. You'll insult and slag people off, but then start crying when fire gets aimed back at you - no matter how often and how thoroughly your arguments are debunked, you'll desperately cling on to them in the vain hope they'll come true. They won't.

You're going on ignore from this point. Continue to lie and rub yourself off over me, but from now on you're not getting any responses.

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Or are you suggesting that there is no connection between suvivability and defense?

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Key word: better. BETTER. Your buff doesn't make them superior, to a worthwhile degree, in any aspect to the other SoA.

As I said, your selective reading skills are impressive.

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No, but it would make them equally as good.

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No it wouldn't, because they'd lack the raw damage or consistent DPS. Having a little extra defense while your core purpose still lags behind does nothing to ease concerns about the AT.

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It's easy, I just don't bother to reply to anything uninteliagable or clear nonsense.

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But you enjoy repeating yourself a lot.

You're a bloody coward, Praf. If you've got the balls to slag someone off, then you've got the balls to face up to them again when your accusations are trumped. It's absolutely pathetic behaviour, and the level of arrogance you attach to it is hilariously out of place.

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No, the big issue with Banes is why would anyone choose to play one when Crabs and Night Widows can do all the same stuff better.

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Which is linked to their survivability. It helps if you quote the post entirely, rather than chopping them up. You've, amazingly, agreed with and contradicted the same sentence.

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I sort of agree, but given that the DPS is much the same as Night Widows, if thier suvivability was comparable they would be able to do the same job equally well.

It's far to late into the issue's development to do a major rethink. You can't make major changes, such as increasing base damage, without risking breaking Crab Spiders.

At this stage a band-aid is the best we can hope for.

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A band-aid that should be applied to the wound, not the scratch. A defense buff does not allow them to do anything better than any other SoA.

BTW, kudos to your selective reading skills. You've surpassed GG.

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Explain Gohan's statement then.

Or have a go at him for misrepresenting you.

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He wasn't acting like a complete twit. You launched into ad hominem.

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I think you may have me confused with someone else. I have never argued that Banes where incapable of handling bosses or EBs, or anything else in the game. Give me a few insps and I could solo any EB in the game with any AT and powerset (ok, maybe not the Jade Spider). CoX is a very easy game.

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Then you should have no problem soloing against minions and Lts, correct? The big issue with Banes appears to be their survivability outside of groups, and against stronger foes - something that Placate, brought back to its original level, would help with far more than a minor boost to defense.

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My only issue with banes is there is nothing they do better than the other SoAs. At one time they could placate better than anyone. Now they can't even do that, so I have thown out a few constructive suggestions. Maybe 6% res wouldn't be much help agains an EB. Maybe it would be far to much against half a dozen minions. Maybe someone else could actually do some calculations and come up with some numbers instead of slagging people off.

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Yes, maybe you could refrain from making stuff up about me, launching into woefully arrogant accusations and wriggling away from my counterpoints like you've got half a ton of worms up your backside. That would help somewhat.

Your 6% boost, however, would not. The problem with Banes is not their defense. It's the lack of any significant role. They can't tank suitably, they can't DPS suitably, they can't buff suitably. They need a rethink, not a band-aid.

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So I went back and read the post by Syracuse to see what reasons he game that Bane spiders couldn't possibly recieve a 6% buff to S/L resistance.

And I couldn't find any.

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That's because you weren't talking about Bane Spiders in that thread.



Good idea to link the thread too, tbh.

Where's this mythical hatred against soloers?

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but it doesn't take a brain scientist or a rocket surgeon to work out that the nerf has hurt owie.

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Yeah, exactly. I just don't think a minor defense buff like that is going to make up for it. When have you EVER said to yourself "ah yes, that 6% bonus has saved my skin"? Given how rapidly bosses attack, and how quickly they can do damage...one hit or two, you're going down if your damage doesn't make up for the loss in survivability.

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And increase from 30% to 36% would be a small buff.

An increase from 7.5% to 13.5% against the most common damage types is a significant buff.

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Not if you haven't got the damage to back it up. Get hit once hard enough, wham. It's over. Placate didn't just act as defense, it was complete nullification of an enemy's attack - far superior, and far more suited to the Bane playstyle. Letting you get shot by a damage type few bosses deal (or deal in enough quantities for the bonus to make a difference) is not a suitable trade for trebling Placate's cooldown.

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I never claimed the nerf to Placate was a "massive gaping hole", just another knock to a set of powers which was already not as good as anything comparable.

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Good thing I didn't say anything about you making the comment then.

You don't crack someone over the skull and then offer them a plaster. The placate nerf is the cracking of said skull, your suggestion is the plaster.

No, it wouldn't. You're going into the same logic you were using in the other thread (which had nothing to do with Bane Spiders, BTW, contrary to your hilariously ignorant snark aimed at me earlier). i.e. You're claiming a small boost against two damage types is enough to make up for a significant nerf against all damage types.

Placate mitigated basically every source of damage from a target out there, and gave you a damage boost. Your Holy Grail of 6% smash/lethal is a situational band-aid that isn't anywhere near the gaping wound.

Your "solution" would be akin to increasing a Tanker's tier one offensive ability after they'd just lost a portion of their primary powerset.

I fail to see how 6% S/L damage resistance would cover their placate nerf.

"One of my core abilities had its recharge time trebled! But no matter! I can fail to kill for a bit longer than before thanks to this increase in my smash/lethal protection!"

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That's a good point actually. We have to remember that when we're chopping at a bad guy with a ruddy great axe, or setting fire to his backside; we're actually attacking someone who, assuming they're even con, are JUST as superpowered as WE are. In fact, they're often MORE powerful.

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Yes, but in what way? A Hellion might be able to command the forces of Hell Itself(tm), but how much sturdier are they? Likewise, someone may be able to conjure up your most horrific nightmares and thoughts to use against you, but that doesn't mean he's going to be stronger than a normal person when it comes to physical health.

Take a look one of your favourite examples of Hero "brutality", the Clockwork King incident... >.>

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That's not to say that he wouldn't use them to meet his own ends, just that he's not going to keep his word on any sort of pact or treaty he makes with another Recluse.

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^ aye, this is what I meant earlier. Though using patience as the main point was a bit cryptic, admittedly.

As far as canon goes...I definitely think the SoA has nailed it quite well in terms of what you are and what you aren't. The story arcs make it fairly clear that rather than being a Super Villain who joined Arachnos, you're a normal person who joined Arachnos and works his/her way up to becoming a Super Villain - all because you were given a lucky shot at breaking away from your rank and station. It's all about proving yourself, making your mark, punching the stuffy "supers" on the nose with the butt of your Arachnos-approved assault rifle.

Makes for a very different feel, IMO.

No, I'm just disillusioned by the sheer flood of roleplayers I've come across in MMOs that want it all but refuse to give anything back.

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Well if you are so offended by them claiming to have stolen the armour why not actually try roleplaying that offence and go grassing them up to the nearest arachnos agent - of course you may have to deal with their ways of getting the whole truth about how you sold the armour to them in the first place

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Not before the thief has to deal with the levels of torture and interrogation Arachnos are known for - physical and mental.

You're gravely over-estimating how great the "he sold it to me " argument would be. It'd be the word of a registered Destined One and Arachnos soldier, with Arachnos' Fortunatas and possibly even an Arbiter intervening, against some thief. Even if someone did consider this, I have no doubt they'd wimp out and fudge some excuse as to why they're just not executed on the spot.

/edit - And if someone's strong enough to resist that kind of treatment, I'd have to wonder why the hell they'd downgrade themselves by stealing a soldier's uniform.

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I think it's more that they don't want Bane Spider's treading on Stalker's toes too much in Villains than wanting Bane's to be worse than Khelds.

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No, you heard him. It's all Heroes. The developers have inscribed the blue side's every wish atop the finest asian silk with the most beautiful ink and quill that can be sought across the globe. After such delicate work, these slivers of material are sent under heavy guard to Elysium itself, whereby the gods smile upon the Heroes and grant them their desire.

Villain requests, however, are tossed in the trash and forgotten about without so much a look.

Ah, you'd be surprised. He isn't quite as mindless as you'd think - quick to anger, quick to punish, quick to kill...but he's sharp of mind and will use/abuse anything he can if it benefits him.

Yeah, those are the lines I'm thinking along. If Recluse will trade with the Rikti and encourage them to continue their war on Paragon City, I think he'd up for taking advantage of cross-dimensional troops. I doubt, however, he'd offer them the same level of patience as his "proper" servants.

Crab Spider backpacks become your only back option if you select the Crab Spider powers. There's no way to get rid of them either once the choice is made - though I'm not sure what happens if you respec into the Bane branch.

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You mean: Banes should suck without a team because Syracuse hates people who solo?

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Agree praf, syracause can get a life and learn to play, he's probably just a leecher who likes people doing the worlk for him when he sits back and does nothing.

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You two should get together and perform a stand-up routine. You'll hear the laughter from Australia.