mauk2
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Posts
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Joined
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/signed
Five slots at 50! It makes a lot of sense, and ends the 'powers peter out' at the top end thing. -
Quote:I said:Originally Posted by Finduilas
Mauk, I really don't think anyone is saying you're incorrect. As a matter of fact, if you had made a statement in your initial post like the one I bolded above, I don't think you'd be having this disagreement.
I rather thought that was quite clear. Apparently I was wrong.Quote:The issue was, your league leader did not want you to drop purple patches on Malaise/Mother Malaise.
This is a skill you can practice against Battle Maiden in the Apex/Tin Mage combo. That battle is not easy, but at least it's not against level 56's.
Okies, I'm out, it's a game, go play!
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I have had the most luck holding doors on my tanks.
1) Have to have pets, you need the extra damage.
2) AOE's and damage aura's with reactive.
3) Confuse protection.
I currently do this most often on either my fire/fire tank, or my stone/ss tank.
On the fire I drop pets at 5 seconds, and start chugging breakfree's. 1 breaky stops the confuse, so I go through seven or eight.
On the stone, minerals stops the confuse, so I chug damage insp's to help drop the lt's. Surprisingly, mud pot's is VERY good here, the minions don't get a chance to take a step.
Stone tanks are very good on the BAF and Lam, I find, can main tank the UG with some buffs and some clarion. Effectively useless on the old Keyes, haven't tried it on the new Keyes yet. Have not run the MoM or TPN on the stoner yet, but I expect it would be less than ideal. -
Quote:....Originally Posted by KnightofKhonsu
The premise of this thread revolves around lack of ranged attacks on Tankers. Your interjection of whatever lvl AV does not take away this fact. I read your statement in its entirety with full comprehension of what you wrote. However, it is your last statement that what I questioned, not if the toon in question is leveled appropriately. Arbitrarily stating a toon is useless "just because..." they may or may not have a level to someone's liking does not pass the smell test.
Really.
Ok then, you take a non-level shifted toon to the MoM and let's see how effective you are at melee, OR ranged.
The reason for this is, years ago, even before issue 1, the Dev's implemented the infamous 'Purple Patch'.
Here, read about it:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Purple_Patch
So when I say fighting +5's and +6's makes you effectively useless, it isn't 'just because', it's because that's how the game works. You don't often see the effects of the purple patch these days due to auto-exemplaring, but it's still there, as far as I know. On the TPN and MoM the purple patch will crush you if you're on a lowby toon.
Although that brings up an interesting point:
Does anyone know if the level shifts effect exemplaring? My anecdotal experience on a few MoM's indicates strongly they do not, but I'm curious if anybody has checked it more formally.
Quote:The fact a person may or may not have the experience in "avoiding getting bombed with death patches" is a completely different matter and off-topic from what the originator of this thread inquired about. Alternatively, a person who lacks such experience will soon gain it if they have the capability of learning. Did you come to play this game with the foreknowledge of the game's mechanics knowing what, when, where, and how to respond from the get go? No, I don't think so. None of us have.
All very true, which is why I recommended in this thread to go play Apex/Tin Mage TF's until you are comfortable with those mechanics.
Because if you are comfortable with the tactics to defeat the death patch mechanic, it does not matter if you have ranged attacks or not.
And you want to learn those tactics BEFORE you have to confront those mechanics against level 56 AV's.
Which are MUCH harder than 54's.
Because of the Purple Patch.
Which demands that you have a level-shifted toon to be effective.
Because that is how the Dev's made the game.
See how all this ties together? The conversation is progressing, people are addressing the opening topic and then trying to lend advice, to make things easier.
Although, come to think of it, the same 'death bombing' mechanic is also in the lowby 'Death from Below' sewer trial, against the hydra. So you could run that a few times for practice as well. -
If you look at it, you'll see that most baddies do either 2 or 3 knockback, or 10. 2 or 3 is most everybody, and 10 seems like the default number for AV's. So 12 points will protect against almost everything, and 4 will do fine against most stuff.
The oddballs are things like 'specialist' knockers, like CoT mages, or the explodey bots. Those usually have mag 5 kb, and will bat you around a little.
I personally don't mind it so much. Makes things more interesting.
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Quote:(blink)Originally Posted by KnightofKhonsu
So let me get this straight. If my tank does not have does not have any ranged attacks at all, then it is useless; as in it serves no purpose and shouldn't be included in any TF?
Srsly? Try reading what I said: Fighting +5's and +6's makes you effectively useless. I do not give a rats backside if you have ranged attacks or not. Assuming you have a toon capable of effectively participating (either leveled appropriately or a heavy support toon), ALL toons can do well in either of those battles. If you know how to fight while getting bombed with death patches, it doesn't matter if you have ranged attacks or not.
(Here's a hint: Either move yourself away when the patches are about to appear, or kite the baddie out of them and keep on wailin'.)
Reading comprehension, try it!
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Quote:The issue was, your league leader did not want you to drop purple patches on Malaise/Mother Malaise.Originally Posted by shaggy5
Sorry--I actually don't know how this connect to the question. I never asked, "Should I have good toons? or "What Trials are good" or whatever. I just wanted to know about ranged attacks on tanks.
This is a skill you can practice against Battle Maiden in the Apex/Tin Mage combo. That battle is not easy, but at least it's not against level 56's.
Oh, and you also need a VERY good toon to fight a 56 at all, since even with three level shifts you're looking at a +3. Fighting a +5 or +6 AV is just dumb.
To simplify: You have to have a good toon, IE, at least Alpha'd, preferably with at least 1 incarnate shift, because if you don't you're ranging from "useless boat anchor" to "not pulling your weight."
That clear it up?
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Now, come on guys, be nice.
Just because Tanks get Taunt doesn't mean we have to use it.
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Quote:If you have not run Apex/Tin Mage until they are routine, do so.Originally Posted by shaggy5
I appreciate the response, sincerely. I guess I don't feel I should have to add any kind of fire powers to my tank if conceptually that is not what I am going for. (Or range at all, for that matter!). But I am still wanting to hear from others.
There is no encounter in any iTrial yet that is not foreshadowed in those two taskforces.
In addition, they are insanely profitable. Once you know how it's not difficult to run both in 45 minutes, and you get 80 merits plus reward tables.
Yes, you do need good toons.
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Quote:....Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
...Where do you get the slots to make running all those worthwile?
I mean, sure, CJ, Tough, Weave... yeah, I can work those is. Usually Hasten, although I've left it with only the base slot more often than I care for.
And super speed is personal flavor... I usually go for Super Jump or (now that it doesn't need a prerequisite) Flight.
But I've never had a Brute or Scrapper build where I think I could squeeze the 3/4 slots out of other places to make Maneuvers worth taking.
Out of curiosity, how many attacks do you usually take, and how do you slot them, and why? -
Quote:On a claw/inv, you want them close to you, so a melee cone is much less useful.Originally Posted by Gobbledygook
Happened to peruse the forums looking for any info on my new toon, and lookie what I found!
Luckily I don't have to start a new thread.
One question though.
It looks like eviscerate is skipped. Is it not needed? Same for eviscerate.
With a good build, spin is recharging usually every five seconds. You also need to throw followup frequently for the +tohit +damage buff, focus is your only knockdown and ranged power, and you keep a lowby filler or two for sets.
That's really, truly, all you need.
For the record: I finally got my claw/inv brute to 50, and after I finish a couple other project toons, it's in the pipe to get built out.
400 point spins, glee!
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Quote:Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
I've got some great info out of this thread chaps. I should just point out that my Invincible Woman got to 50 on Saturday and she's now heading to the Rogue Isles for GW's PPP.
I've got to say I've really enjoyed her, and her damage output isn't as bad as I'd expected and there's not a lot that can give her too much trouble except she's weak to End Drain - but I've yet to respec her and IO her out - at which point I expect she'll rock.
I also want to Incarnate her... can't decide on the Alpha yet though, any suggestions?
Oh and for those who've not read through the whole of this thread she's a WP/Dark.
I've got a couple of others I'm working on now - finally after almost 6 years in the game I'm playing melee toons
Agility all the way. -
Quote:OMG, I've hated that name for 7 years.Originally Posted by Vox Populi
Here's a really old suggestion of mine- "Temp Invulnerability" is a terrible name for the power, and could really use a change to something more descriptive of what it actually does.
My suggestion: "Bulletproof"
I would sign onto a change in an instant. Here's an idea, just call it 'Durable.' Short, sweet, accurate. -
Quote:Yeah, I've looked at it before. But /fire has two pbaoe's to leverage the "3 erad/3 cleave trick" for E/N. Dark don't.Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Not sure if you noticed, but I did offer the build on my blog. It's just a Dark/Fire, but it's a template to start with for sure. Let me get you a link. At the time it was built on 300 million.
So I was hoping for a sample build for how peoples got the E/N up.
Rangle's nastier build caps S/L/E/N and also has 123 end, on a darkity dark. This comforts me. I'm not super excited at how many 5-slotted attacks it has, but that's the problem that enhancement boosters were created to solve.
Although any build that needs to build to 120+ end to be viable makes me shake my head at what the Dev's were thinkin'......
Hrrrrm. Ok, I have fuel for this project, methinks, we'll see where it goes. -
Wow, awesome! I've never bothered with attack chains, because I frankly don't care THAT much, but this might actually force me to figure a few out.
(idea!)
OMG, you should speak to the Mid's guys and get this integrated right into Mids as a popup window. THAT would raise the awesome to QUANTUM AWESOME.
(faints) -
Quote:(watches video)Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
I have a Toxic thing. Feel free to tell me how awesome it is!
Video:
(watches video again)
....thats pretty darn awesome. -
Quote:Thank you, good sir!Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
I've got a few Dark/Dark builds that I've sprinkled through the tank forums. Search for the name "Interruption" and posts by me.
I found two builds: Not terribly happy with how expensive they are, but ehn, that's a personal problem. I've thrown more than this at my Stone Tanker and I'm still not pleased with it either, so maybe I'll try one of these out.
If these are not the builds you meant, I'll look some more, although they are admittedly hellacious nice builds. I've never seen a toon with 123 end before.
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Quote:This.Originally Posted by Death_Adder
Jump kick is actually quite good if you are lacking damage in your primary or secondary sets. It's lightning fast recharge and the fact that it benefits from containment make it an excellent soloing tool for controllers. It does the same damage and animation time as air superiority but with a much faster recharge. It makes up for that by only having a 20% chance to KU instead of 100%. However, if you are a controller, you don't need the extra mitigation and do need the damage more frequently.
Many people pan jump kick. (Honestly, so do I but that's due to the horrible animation.) However, by the numbers, jump kick is an awesome attack for low-recharge builds that need attack chain filler. It's pretty much ALWAYS up and ready to go.
With combat jumping, spring attack, and superleap, leaping is a hella nice pool.
I also have a soft place in my heart for flight, because, well, YER FLYING. How cool is that? Hover is more than decent, and afterburner makes it solid awesome with a plating of uber.
Superspeed accepts stealth procs, and hasten is the best pool power there is, period.
Teleport is fantastic on stealthy support toons. Sneak in, find baddy, drop angry tank on said baddy. What's not to love? Teleport is also useful as hell on granited toons. As a travel power, teleport is cumbersome in confined spaces, but is a godsend for crowded hallways and curbs.
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Oedipus, WHAT is that emote you're doing, with your hand on the grounded sword?
BTW, that toon still makes me laugh my brains out every time I see it.
As for me: I will not play any toon that does not have a strong theme and back-story. Indeed, the first thing I do is work out the backstory, and write a full Bio entry.
Yes, I'm weird.
One of my latest concept toons is a fire/wp/soul brute. She was a pretty girl from Appalachia who also happened to be a near-genius who likes inorganic chemistry. She rebelled against peer-pressure to be a cheerleader, and instead got a doctorate in Analytic Chemistry and took a job at Holston Arsenal manufacturing dynamite.
During a Malta attack, (a dynamite factory? get it?) she got turned into living Oleum. Now she's beating up bad guys in Paragon, and the utter hilarity for me is she has both a Doctor's uniform, and a cheerleader's outfit.
Ah, the simple things that make me laff.
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It's always fun watching Dech's tilt at his favorite windmill.
Now, that said:
I have a 50 Darkity/Dark tank that stinks on ice. (I know Dech's, it's only because I suck as a player.)
However, I love this guys costume and concept, so against my better judgement, I got a theft of essence proc. Now, all I need is the rest of a build.
Anybody have a reasonable dark/dark tanker build laying around? I'd be highly appreciative. -
Quote:Yeah, I got the AOE using a Ruin, which I'm pretty comfortable with.Originally Posted by Doomguide
I'll toss out another possible tweak even though I'm not sure I'd go with it. Swap in a Detonation for the Posi's in Howl. It does push AoE defense over 32.5%, but being over 43% with a luck and keeping the Posi set bonuses is pretty dang good already. And you'd lose the second damage proc as well in Howl. Probably not worth now that I'm seeing it in print so to speak.
Only other thing I'd have on my wish list would be getting Hasten closer to if not Perma in turn minimizing Heat Loss downtime. But that probable takes Purple sets or a major rebuild.
This toon is probably going to become one of if not my main UG-runner. I currently run it on a tooled up Stone tanker, and it's a miserable experience every time. The UG is unkind to tanks.
I really like the fact that with two clicks every two minutes I'm giving everybody within 40 feet of me 35 percent defense and MAG 6 confuse protection BEFORE I activate any Incarnate goodies.
I suspect this toon will make UG's a LOT easier.
Thanks for all the help! -
Ok, latest revision. Swapped out a Thunderstrike for Ruin, to get AOE defense above 32.5.
Seems pretty solid at this point, I think I am pleased.
I'm 5 tips away from HOOOOOOOORRIBLE VILLAINY, so I'm about to freeze this (heh) and start assembling sets.
TY all! I am a mallet-headed melee player, your advice has been invaluable.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Winters Maiden_I20_3: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Cold Domination
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Ice Shield -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(7), LkGmblr-Rchg+(15), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(23), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(37), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 1: Shriek -- Ruin-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Ruin-Dmg/Rchg(3), Ruin-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Ruin-Acc/Dmg(34), Ruin-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 2: Scream -- Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(9), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(37), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 4: Howl -- Posi-Dam%(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Posi-Acc/Dmg(5), JavVoll-Dam%(31), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(31), Posi-Dmg/Rng(36)
Level 6: Glacial Shield -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(7), LkGmblr-Rchg+(15), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(23), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Aegis-Psi/Status(46)
Level 8: Frostwork -- Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(11), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(40)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40)
Level 12: Arctic Fog -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), LkGmblr-Def(13)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Shout -- Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(17), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(34), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 18: Benumb -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 20: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), LkGmblr-Rchg+(21), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 22: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(25), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(43)
Level 26: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27), LkGmblr-Def(27)
Level 28: Sleet -- AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(A), AnWeak-DefDeb(29), AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(29), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(39), Achilles-ResDeb%(48), AnWeak-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 32: Heat Loss -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(33), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(33), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(39), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 35: Scorpion Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 38: Tactics -- GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(A), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(45), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(45)
Level 41: Infrigidate -- LdyGrey-DefDeb/EndRdx(A), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(42), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg(42), AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(42)
Level 44: Amplify -- AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(A)
Level 47: Web Cocoon -- G'Wdw-Acc/Hold/Rchg(A), G'Wdw-Acc/Rchg(48), G'Wdw-Hold/Rng(48)
Level 49: Vengeance -- RedFtn-Def/Rchg(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Cryonic Radial Final Judgement
Level 50: Reactive Total Radial Conversion
Level 50: Spiritual Radial Paragon
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(34)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(19)
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I was reading over this thread, and the various notions tossed out have INSPIRED ME.
How's about this:
For every enemy on a tanker's aggro list, the Tanker gives his league a 1 percent damage buff. Namely, since the bad guys are discombobulated by the Tanker, he and all his buddies can hit it harder.
To address the 'stacking tankers' issues, make it stack.
This is nicely self-limiting too: As baddies die off, the buff drops, it can never go higher than the number of bad guys engaged which (in my experience) is rarely more than 80-odd at a given time, and it re-affirms the tanker's role as aggro machines: If other toons are grabbing aggro, they're debuffing themselves.
I think I rather like this one. It helps tanks solo, it helps teams and leagues, and it's fully stackable. Simple!
I still think the tanker's aggro cap should be raised to let a tanker compete somewhat against pet classes and AOE controls, and I think a tankers damage caps should be increased to pull their buffed maxima closer in-line with the other heavy melee archetypes.
But this seems a simple, fully-automatic mechanism that directly rewards tanks and their allies.
Inspiration OVER. Time for caffeine.
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Quote:This is correct: Vahzilok Zombies were Untyped damage, and pure horror to fight on a team. (shudder) The game is much harder these days, in many ways, but much easier in others.Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Odd. Hmmm, admittedly i was going by the descriptions of the combat system as provided by players like Iakona and Arcanaville from back in the day. Cadavers dealing "untyped" damage was a common complaint back then and why all armor set users, including Fire, avoided Vahzilok like the plague. Super Reflexes users didn't complain because for the most part their toggles were generally considered not really worth using against anything at the lower levels.
These days, I love tackling toxic baddies: I whip out one of my fire tanks and start pumping on the ole' Healin' Flames button. 90 percent toxic resist, for the win!
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Quote:Yes, Aett has been updating the OP as people toss things out there.Originally Posted by New Dawn
All comments that are applicable to the OPs initial posts could be updated to the initial posts. All other comments are just padding. The OPs posts might continue to be updated unbiasedly therefore arguments and derails might waste Aetts time. I trust a Dev to look at something and take a 1 sec decision on it where necessary.
Yay him!