magicj

[ QUOTE ]
grab an ouro mission that exemps you below pet level

[/ QUOTE ]
Great idea. I'll do that with the level 32 test as well.

But I'm holding off a bit before doing it to see if anyone else has some suggestions.

Ishtar
Good point about Spooky. I guess I'm just in the habit of summoning him.

Not sure why the pre-32 one is silly. I guess I'm wondering, do you mean silly as in "I don't really care about pre-32 damage" or silly as in "That's not an accurate test of pre-32 powers".

Zappalina
Thanks. The band is called the Ravenettes and I've been trying to work one of their songs into a video for ages. And then I get two on the same day.

I've just put together a couple of single target damage tests for my various WarTroller builds. You can find them here:

WarTroller Single Target Damage Test Pre-Level 32
WarTroller Single Target Damage Test Level 32

For best results click "Watch in high quality" and full screen mode.

Here's a summary of the results:

Pre-Level 32
Set_____________Time to kill Target
Illusion w/PA_____41s
Mind____________44s
Fire_____________53s
Plant____________58s
Illusion w/out PA__1:34s

Level 32
Set_____________Time to kill Target
Illusion w/PA_____34s
Plant____________37s
Fire_____________40s
Mind____________44s
Illusion w/out PA__1:00

I was hoping the folks who are knowledgeable in the various primaries could take a look at the videos to see if they're happy with the way I did the tests. Let me know if you think they're unfair.

[ QUOTE ]
Oddly enough, I can't stand my Mind/FF. He's 26 at the moment. Mass Hypnosis is useless on kill all teams and Total Domination recharges way too slow for regular use. It feels annoyingly weak.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, at the very least you'll want to pick up Terrify at 26 and use that rather than Mass Hypnosis and Total Dom as you main control. Do that, along with using your 4 single target attacks, and you should see a big improvement.

That said, just rolling a Mind/FF doesn't necessarily make it a WarTroller. You need ways to manage aggro, basically by picking up Provoke and Aid Self. Doing this tends to change the way the toon is played, making it much more engaged with the fight, as opposed to being solely a support toon. You're still a Controller first and foremost, but you become a bit more Tanker-like. In a pinch, you can even "tank" entire TFs by taking the alpha with PFF up, dropping PFF and controlling the group, and using Provoke and single target controls to manage strays.

From there, you'll have to wait for the late build and the Stone Epic before you can really start doing things that are generally considered to be Tanker-only jobs, such as tanking AVs or GMs or standing in the middle of a group Taunting and hitting Fissure and Seismic Smash.

[ QUOTE ]
I enjoy the whole "Omni-trollers" bit, but you should really look into Ill/FF or Ill/Kins, if anything, they where the first "Wartrollers". Keep in mind NO controller blasts. Whatsoever, Don't propel confuse any would be trollers. YOU DO NOT BLAST. You can tank.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've listed Ill/FF as a WarTroller. And the list of WarTrollers I've provided, Mind/FF/Stone, Plant/FF/Stone, Fire/FF/Stone, and Ill/FF/Stone, isn't meant to be an exclusive list. These are the builds I've personally tested and feel they've earned the title.

As to Ill/Kin in particular being a WarTroller, I'm not so sure. Perhaps an Ill/Kin with perma PA. Otherwise, no. Being able to tank only when PA is up isn't good enough unless PA is up all the time. A tank doesn't tank every 3rd fight. A tank tanks whenever needed for as long as needed. It's a "First One In, Last One Out" sort of thing. Even with perma PA, there's the question of relying on computer AI to do the tanking. Is this good enough to really be considered a tank? Maybe.

As to the whole blasting thing, I dunno. High damage ranged attacks aren't considered blasting? A Fire/FF WarTroller even has some of the same powers available to a /Fire Blaster. Now I'm not claiming it's on the same scale as a Blaster, it's not. But it kills quickly and damage is supplimented with pets and Containment.

P.S.
Love your sig

Just added a Fire Imps Tank The AV Infernal video.

Just added a WarTroller RWZ Challenge video.

Just added a WarTroller RWZ Challenge video.

Just found this thread. Here are the videos I've done so far.

The Infernal Challenge - Plant/FF/Stone WarTroller does the Infernal Challenge
Temp Pets Vs AVs 4 Plant/FF/Stone WarTroller tanks AV
Temp Pets Vs AVs 3 Tanking and Temp Pets with Damage
Temp Pets Vs AVs 2 Tanking and Temp Pets with -Regen
Temp Pets Vs AVs 1 Temp Pets Can't Kill AVs Alone
Stoney Tanks the AV Infernal
Bot/FF Solos Valkyre Part 1
Bots/FF Solos Valkyre Part 2
Chaos Control and Hibernation
Mind/FF Herding Tutorial
Mind/FF Solos Jack In Irons
A Little More Action Mind/FF Highlight Video
Mind/FF solos Rikti Pylon

[ QUOTE ]
Just how much recharge does it take to perma Earth's Embrace (assuming Haste, of course)?

[/ QUOTE ]
The build has 48.8% +Recharge from IOs, and that's just about what you'll need. There's a few seconds of overlap with that amount.

[ QUOTE ]
If one wanted to get the two ally bubbles in there, what powers might one replace for them?

[/ QUOTE ]
Spirit Tree and Spore Burst would be my two picks.

I've also put together a video of that Plant build doing the Infernal Challenge.

I've added a video of that Plant/FF/Stone build above tanking an AV here.

Here's an IOed out Plant/FF/Stone WarTroller build. It's moderately expensive, but still no where near the cost of IOing out an Illusionist for perma PA. It gives a good indication on where to start for IOing out any WarTroller. Emphasis is placed on +Recharge to make Earth's Embrace perma and +Accuracy to increase damage output by making the vet powers hit. Ranged Defense is also buffed up to stack on top of Dispersion Bubble. +Recovery bonuses allow the toon to go for long fights without tiring.

In addition to perma Earth's Embrace, this particular WarTroller can get nearly an extra 400% Regen with Health and Spirit Tree. With 2 Spirit Trees out the Regen is nearly 700%, of which nearly 600% is in the form of an AoE. Health also cuts Sleep Durations in half, Sleeps being the only mez hole in the build.

This toon is capable of tanking things like Nemesis on an 8 man team and has tanked various AVs, such as Dominatrix, Marauder, and Tyrant as the team tank. It has soloed Ghost Widow as an AV, killing her in about a minute using temp powers. It's also a solid farming toon. While it won't be as fast as a Fire/Kin, it's still fast. And it's much more survivable than Fire/Kin. Seeds of Confusion being a much better control than Flashfire is just one reason why this is so.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Mutation Controller
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Presence
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strangler <ul type="square">[*] (A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage: Level 39[*] (3) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance: Level 39[*] (5) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge: Level 39[*] (7) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 39[*] (36) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold: Level 39[*] (36) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold: Level 39[/list]Level 1: Personal Force Field <ul type="square">[*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 40[*] (40) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 40[*] (40) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 40[*] (46) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge: Level 39[/list]Level 2: Entangle <ul type="square">[*] (A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage: Level 39[*] (3) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance: Level 39[*] (7) Thunderstrike - Damage/Recharge: Level 39[*] (34) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 39[*] (34) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 39[/list]Level 4: Roots <ul type="square">[*] (A) Accuracy IO: Level 40[*] (5) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage: Level 39[*] (15) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance: Level 39[*] (31) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge: Level 39[*] (31) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range: Level 39[*] (31) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 39[/list]Level 6: Aid Other <ul type="square">[*] (A) Healing IO: Level 40[/list]Level 8: Seeds of Confusion <ul type="square">[*] (A) Coercive Persuasion - Confused: Level 50[*] (9) Coercive Persuasion - Confused/Recharge: Level 50[*] (9) Coercive Persuasion - Accuracy/Confused/Recharge: Level 50[*] (11) Coercive Persuasion - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50[*] (11) Coercive Persuasion - Confused/Endurance: Level 50[*] (15) Coercive Persuasion - Contagious Confusion: Level 50[/list]Level 10: Swift <ul type="square">[*] (A) Run Speed IO: Level 40[/list]Level 12: Hasten <ul type="square">[*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 40[*] (13) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 40[*] (13) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 40[/list]Level 14: Super Speed <ul type="square">[*] (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points): Level 39[/list]Level 16: Aid Self <ul type="square">[*] (A) Healing IO: Level 40[*] (17) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance: Level 39[*] (17) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge: Level 39[*] (19) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge: Level 39[*] (19) Doctored Wounds - Heal: Level 39[*] (25) Doctored Wounds - Recharge: Level 39[/list]Level 18: Health <ul type="square">[*] (A) Healing IO: Level 40[*] (46) Healing IO: Level 40[*] (46) Healing IO: Level 40[/list]Level 20: Stamina <ul type="square">[*] (A) Endurance Modification IO: Level 40[*] (21) Endurance Modification IO: Level 40[*] (21) Endurance Modification IO: Level 40[*] (43) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 39[/list]Level 22: Dispersion Bubble <ul type="square">[*] (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 40[*] (23) Defense Buff[*] (23) Defense Buff[*] (25) Defense Buff[/list]Level 24: Detention Field <ul type="square">[*] (A) Accuracy IO: Level 40[/list]Level 26: Carrion Creepers <ul type="square">[*] (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 40[*] (27) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 40[*] (27) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 40[/list]Level 28: Provoke <ul type="square">[*] (A) Perfect Zinger - Taunt: Level 39[*] (29) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge: Level 39[*] (29) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge/Range: Level 39[*] (37) Perfect Zinger - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 39[*] (37) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Range: Level 39[*] (39) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage: Level 39[/list]Level 30: Repulsion Field <ul type="square">[*] (A) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage: Level 20[/list]Level 32: Fly Trap <ul type="square">[*] (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 39[*] (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage: Level 39[*] (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance: Level 39[*] (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 39[*] (34) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge: Level 39[/list]Level 35: Spirit Tree <ul type="square">[*] (A) Healing IO: Level 40[*] (36) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance: Level 39[*] (37) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge: Level 39[*] (39) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge: Level 39[*] (39) Doctored Wounds - Heal: Level 39[*] (40) Doctored Wounds - Recharge: Level 39[/list]Level 38: Force Bubble <ul type="square">[*] (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 40[/list]Level 41: Fissure <ul type="square">[*] (A) Accuracy IO: Level 40[*] (42) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage: Level 39[*] (42) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance: Level 39[*] (42) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge: Level 39[*] (43) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range: Level 39[*] (43) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 39[/list]Level 44: Rock Armor <ul type="square">[*] (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 40[*] (45) Defense Buff[*] (45) Defense Buff[*] (45) Defense Buff[/list]Level 47: Earth's Embrace <ul type="square">[*] (A) Healing IO: Level 40[*] (48) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance: Level 39[*] (48) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge: Level 39[*] (48) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge: Level 39[*] (50) Doctored Wounds - Heal: Level 39[*] (50) Doctored Wounds - Recharge: Level 39[/list]Level 49: Spore Burst <ul type="square">[*] (A) Fortunata Hypnosis - Accuracy/Sleep/Recharge: Level 50[*] (50) Fortunata Hypnosis - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50[/list]------------
Level 1: Brawl <ul type="square">[*] (A) Empty[/list]Level 1: Sprint <ul type="square">[*] (A) Empty[/list]Level 2: Rest <ul type="square">[*] (A) Empty[/list]Level 1: Containment
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]12.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]12.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]12.5% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]12.5% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]12.5% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]12.5% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]12.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]12.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]3.13% Defense(Smashing)[*]3.13% Defense(Lethal)[*]7.5% Defense(Energy)[*]7.5% Defense(Negative)[*]1.56% Defense(Melee)[*]7.5% Defense(Ranged)[*]4% Enhancement(Confused)[*]12% Enhancement(Heal)[*]32% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]48.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]4% FlySpeed[*]4% JumpHeight[*]4% JumpSpeed[*]Knockback (Mag -4)[*]Knockup (Mag -4)[*]MezResist(Confused) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Held) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Sleep) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Stun) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Terrorized) 11.9%[*]17% (0.28 End/sec) Recovery[*]20% (0.85 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]6.93% Resistance(Fire)[*]6.93% Resistance(Cold)[*]4% RunSpeed[/list]

[ QUOTE ]
have a lvl 25 plant/FF troller i like alot.

Also Magicj - thanks for getting me into FF as i hated them till the last week or so...

But i was thinking wouldn't the fastest killing or herding troller be a Fire/FF with Hot feet and bubbled monkey's, then you can have personal field up to survivability?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I've always had trouble herding with the monkeys. They grab aggro and leave baddies scattered here and there. I.'m currently trying out slotting for +Recharge bonuses so I can despawn the monkeys, herd, and respawn every fight. But I haven't gotten far enough yet to know if it's possible.

Also, with PFF up HotFeet isn't going to be affecting anything and you can't throw out Fire Cages, so you lose a big chunk of damage there as well.

And, for me at least, the general idea of "hide in PFF while other stuff does all the work" hasn't worked out well. The Devs have done a good job of making sure that PFF is useful without turning it into an "I Win" button.

That's fine.

I'll just say that none of the temp powers used reduce incoming damage. The WarTroller's ability to survive comes from the build, not the temp powers.

As to the general idea of using temp powers in the video, the whole original intent of that video was to show just how much damage a WarTroller can do in the rare cases where extreme damage is needed. Yes it's true other builds could use those same temp powers. But most Controllers couldn't survive the return attacks. And if you can't do that, the pylon (or AV, or GM, or whatever) will just focus on your temp pets and kill them.

The concept is identical to a Tankermind holding aggro while the Henchmen do the killing. It's only needed in rare cases. For most cases the WarTroller has plenty of damage in the build itself.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can see how tough this will make your toon in my Mind/FF solos Rikti Pylon video.

[/ QUOTE ]

You used two nukes, a shivan, and an HVAS. I recommend replacing that vid with one that shows what a 'naked' Mind/FF can do. As it stands, its more of an advertisement for CoH's temp pets than for your build.

[/ QUOTE ]
First, I'm not getting into arguments over the definition soloing.

Second, the video shows how using Earth's Embrace and PFF + Aid Self lets the Controller survive repeated hits from the pylon.

Here is a list with a few notes on the similarites between an Ice Armor/Super Strength Tanker and a WarTroller.

Ice Armor/Super Strength_____________WarTroller
Hoarfrost___________________________Earth's Embrace
Frozen Armor_______________________Dispersion Bubble/Rock Armor
Chilling Embrace_____________________Any AoE control
Wet Ice___________________________Dispersion Bubble
Permafrost_________________________None
Icicles_____________________________Any AoE damage
Glacial Armor_______________________Dispersion Bubble
Energy Absorption___________________None
Hibernate__________________________Personal Force Field/Aid Self
Jab_______________________________Any single target attack
Punch_____________________________Any single target attack
Haymaker_________________________Siesmic Smash
Taunt_____________________________Provoke
Hand Clap_________________________Any AoE control
Rage_____________________________None
Hurl______________________________Hurl Boulder
Foot Stomp________________________Fissure

Notes:
* Earth's Embrace gives the Controller more Hit Points than the base Hit Points of a Brute and can easily be made perma with Hasten and +Recharge IO bonuses.
* Dispersion Bubble does not protect against Sleeps
* An Ice Tanker will have 26% DEF(S/L, Energy, Negative Energy). A WarTroller will have 11% DEF(ALL) and up to 35% DEF(S/L)

Here is a list of similarities between Force Field powers and the powers of Illusion/Storm. The intent is a to give a feel for how FF can be played.

Illusion/Storm Power__________________Force Field Power
Blind_______________________________Detention Field
Spectral Wounds_____________________None
Deceive____________________________None
Flash______________________________Force Bubble (in some cases)
Superior Invisibility___________________Personal Force Field
Group Invisibility_____________________None
Phantom Army_______________________Personal Force Field
Spectral Terror_______________________Repulsion Bomb
Phantasm___________________________None (But Shiv temp pets can be used when needed)
Gale_______________________________Repulsion Field
O2 Boost___________________________None (but Aid other can be used)
Snow Storm________________________Force Bubble in some cases
Steamy Mist________________________Dispersion Bubble
Freezing Rain_______________________Repulsion Bomb
Hurricane__________________________Force Bubble
Thunderclap________________________None
Tornado___________________________Force Bolt
Lightning Storm_____________________Repulsion Field

Here is a simple Plant/FF WarTroller. Note that the build does not have Deflection Shield or Insulation Shield.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.4006
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Presence
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- Empty(A), Empty(3), Empty(7), Empty(15), Empty(37)
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- Empty(A), Empty(39), Empty(39), Empty(40)
Level 2: Roots -- Empty(A), Empty(3), Empty(5), Empty(11), Empty(34), Empty(50)
Level 4: Entangle -- Empty(A), Empty(5), Empty(7), Empty(11), Empty(15)
Level 6: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- Empty(A), Empty(9), Empty(9), Empty(29), Empty(29), Empty(34)
Level 10: Aid Other -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- Empty(A), Empty(13), Empty(13)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Aid Self -- Empty(A), Empty(17), Empty(17), Empty(19), Empty(19), Empty(25)
Level 18: Health -- Empty(A), Empty(46), Empty(46)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A), Empty(21), Empty(21)
Level 22: Dispersion Bubble -- Empty(A), Empty(23), Empty(23), Empty(25)
Level 24: Detention Field -- Empty(A), Empty(43), Empty(46)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- Empty(A), Empty(27), Empty(27)
Level 28: Repulsion Field -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Provoke -- Empty(A), Empty(31), Empty(31), Empty(31), Empty(40), Empty(40)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- Empty(A), Empty(33), Empty(33), Empty(33), Empty(34)
Level 35: Spirit Tree -- Empty(A), Empty(36), Empty(36), Empty(36), Empty(37), Empty(37)
Level 38: Spore Burst -- Empty(A), Empty(39)
Level 41: Fissure -- Empty(A), Empty(42), Empty(42), Empty(42), Empty(43), Empty(43)
Level 44: Rock Armor -- Empty(A), Empty(45), Empty(45), Empty(45)
Level 47: Earth's Embrace -- Empty(A), Empty(48), Empty(48), Empty(48), Empty(50), Empty(50)
Level 49: Force Bubble -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]


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Here is a simple Illusion/FF WarTroller. Unlike the other WarTroller builds I'm listing here, Illusion is not a particularly good farming build.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.4006
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(5), Dmg(7), Dmg(9)
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(36), RechRdx(36), Empty(39)
Level 2: Spectral Wounds -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(7), Dmg(9), Dmg(13)
Level 4: Deceive -- Acc(A), Acc(5), RechRdx(13), Conf(15), RechRdx(15), Conf(40)
Level 6: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 8: Aid Other -- Heal(A), RechRdx(46)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(11), RechRdx(11)
Level 12: Group Invisibility -- DefBuff(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run(A)
Level 16: Aid Self -- RechRdx(A), Heal(17), RechRdx(17), Heal(21), RechRdx(29), Heal(31)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- Acc(A), Dmg(19), Dmg(19), RechRdx(21), RechRdx(29), RechRdx(31)
Level 20: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 22: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(23), EndMod(23), Empty(43)
Level 24: Dispersion Bubble -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(25), DefBuff(25), DefBuff(37), Empty(39)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- Acc(A), RechRdx(27), RechRdx(27), RechRdx(37), EndRdx(37)
Level 28: Deflection Shield -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(31), DefBuff(34), Empty(39)
Level 30: Insulation Shield -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(34), DefBuff(36), Empty(40)
Level 32: Phantasm -- Acc(A), Acc(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(34), Empty(40)
Level 35: Repulsion Field -- RechRdx(A)
Level 38: Force Bubble -- EndRdx(A)
Level 41: Fissure -- Acc(A), Acc(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(43), EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Hurl Boulder -- Acc(A), Acc(45), Dmg(45), Dmg(45), Dmg(46), RechRdx(46)
Level 47: Earth's Embrace -- RechRdx(A), Heal(48), RechRdx(48), Heal(48), RechRdx(50), Heal(50)
Level 49: Rock Armor -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]


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|:.C3|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|</pre><hr />

Here's a simple Fire/FF WarTroller.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.4006
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Presence
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(5), Dmg(7), Dmg(9), Hold(37)
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(37), RechRdx(39), Empty(39)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(5), Dmg(7), Dmg(9), EndRdx(37)
Level 4: Deflection Shield -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(29), DefBuff(36)
Level 6: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 8: Aid Other -- Heal(A)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(11), RechRdx(11)
Level 12: Hot Feet -- Acc(A), EndRdx(13), EndRdx(13), EndRdx(15), Dmg(15), Dmg(29)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run(A)
Level 16: Aid Self -- RechRdx(A), Heal(17), RechRdx(17), Heal(19), RechRdx(19), Heal(27)
Level 18: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21), Empty(40)
Level 22: Dispersion Bubble -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(23), DefBuff(23), DefBuff(27)
Level 24: Flashfire -- Acc(A), Acc(25), RechRdx(25), RechRdx(39), RechRdx(40), Dsrnt(40)
Level 26: Insulation Shield -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(36)
Level 28: Repulsion Field -- RechRdx(A)
Level 30: Provoke -- Acc(A), Acc(31), RechRdx(31), Taunt(31), RechRdx(34), Taunt(34)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- Acc(A), Acc(33), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(34), Empty(43)
Level 35: Detention Field -- Acc(A), RechRdx(46)
Level 38: Force Bubble -- EndRdx(A)
Level 41: Fissure -- Acc(A), Acc(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(43), EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Hurl Boulder -- Acc(A), Acc(45), Dmg(45), Dmg(45), Dmg(46), RechRdx(46)
Level 47: Earth's Embrace -- RechRdx(A), Heal(48), RechRdx(48), Heal(48), RechRdx(50), Heal(50)
Level 49: Rock Armor -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]


<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy &amp; Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|</pre><hr />

And here is a simple WarTroller build for I13. It's designed for team support and soloing, including farming and soloing AVs. The only chaos control power is Repulsion Field, which is also used for coming out of PFF safely when herding. You may want to get Seismic Smash rather than Hurl Boulder, but that option wasn't available in the online planner.

If you look carefully, you'll notice some empty slots. They're for single IOs like Global +7.5% recharge. To IO this out, I'd focus on +Recharge to get Earth's Embrace perma and a little +Accuracy so your vet powers hit. A Knockback Protection and Stealth IO would also be useful. Mass Confusion, the two 6-slotted heals, the Defense powers, and the AoEs are all good places to put IOs.

I'd recommend trying to always have Shivs on hand to contribute to AV fights when needed.

To turn this into a team support build for dual builds, swap the Earth Epic for the Primal Force Epic and get Power Boost. Drop Provoke and replace it with a Mind AoE control.

Another option is to use this build only for soloing. If you do that you can drop Deflection Shield and Insulation Shield and pick up Detention Field and another AoE control.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.4006
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Mind Control
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Presence
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Mesmerize -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(9), Dmg(13), Dmg(25)
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(39), RechRdx(40), Empty(40)
Level 2: Dominate -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(5), Dmg(9), Dmg(15), Hold(39)
Level 4: Levitate -- Acc(A), Acc(5), Dmg(7), Dmg(13), Dmg(15)
Level 6: Confuse -- Acc(A), Acc(7)
Level 8: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(11), RechRdx(11)
Level 12: Aid Other -- Heal(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run(A)
Level 16: Aid Self -- RechRdx(A), Heal(17), RechRdx(17), Heal(19), RechRdx(19), Heal(36)
Level 18: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21), Empty(43)
Level 22: Dispersion Bubble -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(23), DefBuff(23), DefBuff(25), Empty(40)
Level 24: Deflection Shield -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(27), DefBuff(27), Empty(46)
Level 26: Terrify -- Acc(A), Acc(29), RechRdx(29), RechRdx(36), RechRdx(37), EndRdx(37)
Level 28: Insulation Shield -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(37), DefBuff(39)
Level 30: Provoke -- Acc(A), Acc(31), RechRdx(31), Taunt(31), RechRdx(34), Taunt(36)
Level 32: Mass Confusion -- Acc(A), Acc(33), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(34), Conf(34)
Level 35: Repulsion Bomb -- RechRdx(A)
Level 38: Force Bubble -- EndRdx(A)
Level 41: Fissure -- Acc(A), Acc(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(43), EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Hurl Boulder -- Acc(A), Acc(45), Dmg(45), Dmg(45), Dmg(46), RechRdx(46)
Level 47: Earth's Embrace -- RechRdx(A), Heal(48), RechRdx(48), Heal(48), RechRdx(50), Heal(50)
Level 49: Rock Armor -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]


<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy &amp; Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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|WMP`|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|</pre><hr />

And here are a few notes about using Knockback as a control.

Chaos Control
This really means nothing more than knocking things around in order to make as big a mess as possible. It's extremely effective at keeping a team safe, especially when you can start knocking things in the Z direction on a 3D map. Repulsion Field and Force bolt can be used for this. Here's a video of Chaos Control in action

But you don't want to do this as a regular practice. Use it only when the team is in serious danger.

Sculpting The Battlefield
This technique uses the same powers as Chaos Control. But instead of knocking things around to make a mess, you're using the Knock powers to clump things together. Examples include Knocking things into a corner or against a wall, or knocking baddies that are heading to the "back row" toons back to the Tanker.

Feel free to use this technique whenever you like.

Here are a few notes I'm adding about tanking with a Mind/FF/Stone build.

I just want to stress that tanking doesn't _replace_ your typical controlling duties, it supplements them. Teams will still be expecting you to lock things down and to bubble them. Also realize that while you can build a pretty good tank with Mind/FF (and especially Mind/FF/Stone), a real Tanker will almost always be a better tank than you.

The Line Of Immortality
If you do only one thing from this post, do this.

I'm listing this one first because it's the single most important aspect of everything else in this post. "The Line of Immortality" is a phase used by Arcanaville. It represents the situation where incoming damage is less than your own damage mitigation, healing and regen.

It's not hard at all to achieve this with an FFer. Slotting PFF with +Recharge and picking up Aid Self from the Medicine pool will do that for you. You'll be able to turtle up in PFF and heal more often than an Ice Tanker can Hibernate. This technique is so useful that I now pick up Aid Self at level 16 on my FFers as religiously as I pick up Stamina at 20.

Once you hit the Epics you can add Earth's Embrace from the Stone Epic. In addition to being a heal, Earth's Embrace will take you to the Controller Hit Point Cap, which is higher than the base Hit Points of a Brute. With EE, you'll be able to survive direct attacks from even AVs. You can also make EE perma with +Recharge IO bonuses.

You can see how tough this will make your toon in my Mind/FF solos Rikti Pylon video.

Taking The Alpha
An FFer is actually probably the best toon in the game for taking the alpha. With PFF up, you're going to have better self protection than a Stone Tanker in Granite.

The trick is determining what to do _after_ the alpha goes off. The easiest answer is to drop PFF and hit the baddies with an AoE. If you do this immediately after the alpha the baddies are pausing for their next attack and you won't get shot back at very much, even if you use something like Terrify as your AoE.

Another option is to have the team rush the baddies after you've taken the alpha. This splits the aggro amongst the team and lets you safely drop PFF and apply Terrify.

A third option is to prevent the alpha from ever even happening by opening with Mass Confusion or Total Dom rather than rushing in with PFF.

In the late game you can open with Fissure, followed up with an AoE control.

Leapfrogging Tankers
The phase "Leapfrogging Tankers" refers to having two Tankers on a team. While one Tanker is managing the aggro for the team, the other goes off and grabs another group of baddies and brings them back to the team. The idea is this reduces the time it takes to clear a mission.

To play the role of a Leapfrogging Tanker with an FFer, raise Dispersion Bubble and Force Bubble. Go off and find another group and jump right in the middle of them. Immediately raise PFF and head back to where the team is located.

Keeping The Pace
This phrase is used to describe the Tanker leaving the team while they are still finishing up a group. The team is almost, but not quite, done defeating the group. The Tanker heads off and aggros another group, moving them into a bunch for efficient AoEs if needed.

You can do this with an FFer by simply raising PFF and heading off to the next group.

Managing Aggro
A Tanker wants to keep aggro on them at all times. You can do this with your FFer as well by picking up Provoke and using it to supplement your more standard controls.

Your first choice should _always_ be to lock things down with controls. But if your controls are recharging or missed a few guys, Provoke is a fast recharge AoE that lets you easily fill the gap.

Even when there's a Tanker on the team, having Provoke can be useful for managing things that get by the Tanker. And Provoke (and Earth's Embrace) is absolutely required if you want to be able to tank AVs in the late game.

When you're managing the aggro on a team with no Tanker, don't be shy about asking the support toons to treat you just as if you were a Tanker. This means you get first priority for things like Fort and heals.

Herding
FF is actually a very good set for herding. I've put together a herding video tutorial of how to do it. Herding is probably best used to speed up soloing, but you can also use it to grab a few groups if you're on a team having a Blaster with a nuke and no Tanker.

Farming
Using herding, Mind/FF is actually a good farming toon. You just herd up a group, hit them with Mass Confusion, and then proceed to kill them. Having Detention Field available is a nice plus for when you aggro more than one boss.

You can see an example of this at the 2:00 mark in this Mind/FF overview video.

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone play plant/storm, or plant/ff?

[/ QUOTE ]
I have a 50 Plant/FF and a 38 Plant/Storm.

If you have questions, you should probably ask them in the regular part of the Controller forum, rather than on the guides thread.

A very good guide that fills an important need. Thanks Ishtar.