magicj

Terrify Boss Tactic
Powers used: Terrify, Intimdate (Presence Power Pool)

There is no way to fear a boss using only MC powers as bosses require 2 applications of fear and the MC powerset has only one. By taking Intimate, a single target fear, from the Presence power pool, the MC can fear bosses. This adds to the exiting MC boss control abilities given by stacking Dominate with Total Domination, or Confuse with Mass Confusion.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

Red-Headed Stepchild Tactic
Powers used: Dominate, Confuse

Using this tactice the MC locks down one baddie with Dominate and confuses a second baddie with Confuse. The MC and the Confused baddie work together to defeat the dominated baddie.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

Thanks for the wonderful guide cforce. Based on your recommendations I built a Mind/Storm and took her to 50. It's truely one of the most fun characters I've played.

[ QUOTE ]
Any thoughts on possibly updating this for I6?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, there won't be an update. I cancelled my account shortly after I6 due to the endless nerfs. Statesman had said he was done nerfing powers with I5 and explained the I6 nerfs as nerfs to enhancements rather than powers. I decided to give the game another go and lo and behold I find out they nerfed Fireball.

So, I'm cancelling my account again, this time for the final time.

I had planned on updating this guide with several different ways of herding without a Tank. Unfortunately, due to the never-ending changes in CoH i've decided to leave the game and move on.

Here's the updated guide in its current state. It includes and addition for herding with Dark/Dark. I hope you like it.

Herding Without A Tank
This Guide describes methods for herding without a Tank. The methods are useful when soloing builds that have the described powers, or when on teams without a Tank. This guide decribes methods for herding with Force Fields and Dark Misma.

The techniques described in this guide have been used frequently in actual combat.

Picture of two groups of Carnies that have been herded together. Personal Force Field is up and the character has jumped out of the corner used to herd and into the front of the herd.
Picture of the same two groups after being locked down with Mass Confuse. Personal Force Field is down and Stealth is up.

Thanks
I'd like to thank everyone who reviewed this guide and offered suggestions and encouragement. Special thanks goes to P_Dude, Burnard_McBurns, ZinePlex, Mystic_Amethyst, Spark_1, and Breville for their suggestions on how Force Bubble and Luck inspirations can be used to increase the number of groups you can herd, to Greyhame on the importance of stressing that not all types of baddies can be herded using this method, and to Anglican for making sure the Guide was correct from a Tank's perspective.

Know The Tank. Be The Tank.
To figure out ways we can herd without a Tank, we first look at what a Tank does to herd. We aren't interested in what specific powers a Tank uses to herd becaue we won't be using them. Rather, we're looking at the herding process in general and breaking it down into steps. Once we've done that, we'll look at powers that can be used to perform each step. In general, Tanks perform the following functions when herding:

1) Get aggro
2) Survive attacks that aggro brings
3) Use aggro to position baddies
4) Stop the baddies from attacking the team
5) Defeat the baddies

In general, any build that can perform items 1 through 4 is herding. Item 5 is just the natural thing to do once you've herded the baddies. So this guide will look at various powersets and show how the powers in those sets can be used to perform each item on the list.

We can also provide general instructions for herding, regardless of the details of the build. Whenever you herd, the following steps are performed:
<ul type="square">[*]· Examine the area to be herded, building a plan on how the herd will be carried out.[*]· Position your team so that they do not interfere with the herd. Indicate to them the herding location and the signal you will use when it's time for them to attack.[*]· Herd the groups[*]· Lockdown the herd[*]· Defeat the herd[/list]
WhisperWitch's Guide To Herding With Force Fields

Introduction
This section explains the process of herding using Force Fields. It is primarily aimed at Controllers with the Force Field secondary. In particular, the Mind/Force Field combination was used to develop these strategies and proved itself well equipped to both herd and quickly defeat several groups single handedly. In addition to Controllers, any build with an AoE lockdown can perform these techniques.

The following powers are used to herd with Force Fields:

1) Get aggro - Personal Force Field or Force Bubble
2) Survive attacks that aggro brings - Personal Force Field or three Luck inspirations.
3) Use aggro to position baddies - Break line of sight with the baddies, usually by ducking around a corner. If you're using Force Bubble, turn it off and turn on PFF.
4) Stop the baddies from attacking the team - Use any available lockdowns. In the sample build, Mind Control provides the lockdowns.
5) Defeat the baddies - Use any available AoE attacks. In the sample build, Mind Control and the Fire Epic Pool are used.

Examining the area
The first step to herding is to examine the area you're in. You'll want to build a plan for how you're going to herd. This means you'll want to know in advance what groups you're going to herd and where you're going to herd them.

Because you'll be herding without Taunt, groups will only follow you for a short distance before dropping off and heading back to their original location. The exact distance they'll follow you depends on their level, your level, and other factors, but in general plan to have about 25 yards to work with. Also, plan to be able to herd no more than three groups, although the author has herded as many as five groups at once. If you have Force Bubble and at least three Luck inspirations you can herd a larger area.

Once you have an idea of which groups you'll be herding, decide where you're going to herd them. You need a location that is within the distance the groups will stay on you and also breaks the line of sight with all the baddies in the herd. Usually you'll want to find a corner that's nearby the groups you'll be herding, but anything that breaks the line of sight, such as trees, can be used to collect the herd. Breaking the line of sight with all baddies in the herd is critical to successful herding.

Positioning Your Team
Once you have a plan for your herding, you need to position the team so that they stay out of the way during the herd. They need to know the location you'll be herding to, which is usually the corner that breaks line of sight with the groups. The team needs to be far enough away from this location to not draw aggro away from you while you herd.

They also need to know when its ok to attack your herd. Tell them ahead of time what the signal will be. The signal could be you sending a team message of 'Now', or it could be you using your lockdown power on the herd. Whatever the signal is, make sure the team knows it and can easily tell when it's time for them to attack.

Naturally, if you're soloing, you can skip this step.

Herding
Now that the preparations are complete, you can begin to herd.

Getting Aggro
Raise your Personal Force Field and visit each group of baddies you wish to herd. Stay close to the group until you have the attention of each member, then move on to the next group. If needed, revisit wandering baddies to again grab their attention.

If you have Force Bubble and at least three Luck inspirations you can herd a larger area, limited only by the area you can travel and return to the herding location before the inspirations wear off.

Clumping
Once you have the attention of all the groups, move to the herding location. Wait for all of the baddies to catch up with you. If you're using a corner, you really don't need to do anything more other than wait. If you're using a tree to break line of sight, you may need to slowly circle around the tree to ensure that all the ranged baddies move in to the clump.

Lockdown
Once you have the groups clumped together at the herding location, they need to be locked down so they don't attack the team. An AoE hold, fear or confuse should be used. This step is critical to successful herding without Taunt or its related powers.

To perform the lockdown, activate any defensive powers you may have. These include powers such as Dispersion Bubble, Stealth, or any other power that aids in your defense while also allowing you to use other powers.

Next, select a single baddie in the middle of the herd, lower your Personal Force Field, and use your AoE lockdown on the herd.

Powers that can be used for this step include a Mind Controller's Mass Confuse or Terrify, an Ice Controller's Ice Slick, a Dark Defenders Fearsome Stare, or any other power that prevents the baddies from running around and attacking the team.

If you don't plan on actually defeating the herd you can use an AoE sleep on them, such as a Mind Controller's Mass Hypnosis. In this case, you would simply continue on with the mission after sleeping the herd.

After the lockdown is complete, signal to the team that it is safe to attack the herd.

Defeating the herd
Defeating the herd simply consists of having the team attack the herd. If any individuals in the herd were not locked down attack them first, or lock them down individually.

Note that the Mind Control powers Terrify and Mass Confuse will both lock down the herd and begin the process of defeating them.

Sample Build
A sample build suitable for herding with Force Fields is provided below. The build uses Mind Control and Force Fields. Notes on the build are also provided. While the author believes the Mind/Force Field combination makes the best build for herding with force fields, other builds are certainly possible. Any build that includes Personal Force Field or Phase Shift and at least 1 AoE lockdown can be used.

Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Controller
Primary Powers - Ranged : Mind Control
Secondary Powers - Support : Force Field

01 : Personal Force Field Empty(01)
01 : Mesmerize Empty(01)
02 : Dominate Empty(02)
04 : Deflection Shield Empty(04)
06 : Hover Empty(06)
08 : Levitate Empty(08)
10 : Confuse Empty(10)
12 : Hasten Empty(12)
14 : Fly Empty(14)
16 : Mass Hypnosis Empty(16)
18 : Swift Empty(18)
20 : Health Empty(20)
22 : Stamina Empty(22)
24 : Insulation Shield Empty(24)
26 : Terrify Empty(26)
28 : Dispersion Bubble Empty(28)
30 : Total Domination Empty(30)
32 : Mass Confusion Empty(32)
35 : Force Bolt Empty(35)
38 : Force Bubble Empty(38)
41 : Fire Ball Empty(41)
44 : Fire Blast Empty(44)
47 : Consume Empty(47)
49 : Repulsion Field Empty(49)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl Empty(01)
01 : Sprint Empty(01)
02 : Rest Empty(02)

Hover provides extra safety when the character drops their Personal Force Field in order to lockdown the herd. Dispersion Bubble is included for the same reason.

Mass Hypnosis can be used to put an entire herd to sleep and move on to another part of the mission.

Total Domination will hold the herd and allow it to be attacked.

Terrify will fear the herd and cause damage to each individual in the herd. When Terrify is applied, members of the herd may attack the caster. Applying Mass Hypnosis or Mass Confusion before Terrify prevents this.

Mass Confusion will cause the herd to begin defeating itself. The caster can let this go on until the confusion expires, or can stop the process at any time using Total Domination or Terrify.

Using Mass Confusion can actually increase the XP awarded in a given amount of time. For more information on this, see cforce's Guide To Confusion

Using Force Bubble and at least three Luck inspirations you can herd a larger area.

Frequently Asked Questions
Why should I herd?
Herding allows you to make more efficient use of your AoE attacks. You can usually defeat herded groups faster than non-herded groups. It also allows you to collect baddies into a single location where the team can focus their efforts, rather than having baddies scattered around an area.

Is herding this way safe?
Yes. With Personal Force Field the herder is in very little danger while herding. Once the herd is collected the herder turns on protective powers, turns off Personal Force Field, and casts a lockdown. There is some danger of getting hit once or twice here, but not nearly as much as you would think.

Will I be able to replace a Tank?
No. Tanks perform many duties other than just herding, and are far better at herding than a Force Field Controller or Defender will ever be. This method is best when soloing or on a team with no Tank.

What does 'Breaking line of sight' mean?
Breaking line of sight means a baddie cannot see you. Going around a corner or standing behind a tree are common ways to break line of sight with baddies.

Do I really need to break line of sight when I herd?
Yes. If you do not break line of sight, baddies with ranged attacks will stay at range and not clump.

Are there groups that I shouldn't herd?
Yes. Groups that mez should be avoided unless you have reliable protection against it. Any group that you cannot lockdown most of its members with a single AoE lockdown should be avoided. Baddies that can attack you through your Personal Force Field, such as Rularuu eyeballs, should not be herded.

Nurse Curse's Guide To Herding With Dark Misma
This section explains the process of herding using Dark Misma. With Dark Misma, we have the luxury of gathering the herd a little at a time if we so choose. We determine a herding location that breaks line of sight with where the baddies are currently located. I refer to this location as the Web. To herd, we build the Web, draw baddies into it, and defeat them. We can draw as many or as few baddies as we wish, and can draw new baddies after we've defeated the ones we've already drawn.

The following powers are used to herd with Dark Misma:

1) Get aggro - Use any available single target attack. In the sample build, Dark Blast is used.
2) Survive attacks that aggro brings - Darkest Night.
3) Use aggro to position baddies - Break line of sight with the baddies, usually by ducking around a corner.
4) Stop the baddies from attacking the team - Darkest Night, Tar Patch, Fearsome Stare, Dark Servant.
5) Defeat the baddies - Use any available AoE attacks. In the sample build, Tenebrous Tentacles, Night Fall, and Blackstar are used.

Examining the area
When examining the area, we want to determine where we'll build the Web and what baddies we'll draw into it. The location of the Web must break the line of sight with all the baddies we want to draw into it.

The number of baddies you can draw into the Web is limited by the range of your attacks. You can travel a short distance from the Web to increase this slightly, but not much.

Building the Web
The Web is built by laying down Tar Patch. This will be the location we draw baddies to. As already mentioned, this location must break the line of sight with where the baddies are located before we begin. Usually, this will be around a corner from the baddies.

Once we draw at least one baddie into the Web, we'll enhance the Web with Darkest Night and Dark Servant in order to keep the baddies in the Web from attacking us while we gather more baddies.

Positioning Your Team
Once you've built your Web, position the team so they don't interfere with drawing baddies into it. Usually this just means stepping back a bit from the web and not attacking.

Unlike many forms of herding, herding with the Web means that teams can attack the baddies as soon as they're in the Web, or they can wait while more baddies are being collected.

Drawing Baddies Into The Web
Baddies are drawn into the Web with any simple attack, such as Dark Blast. Simply attack the baddie and return to the Web. The baddie and his nearby friends will follow you.

If this is the first baddie you've drawn into the Web, cast Darkest Night on him to prevent him from hitting you with attacks. You can also use Fearsome Stare for this purpose. If available, summon Dark Servant to grab the baddies attention while you lure more baddies into the Web.

If you're using the Web for an extended period of time, remember to refesh Tar Patch.

If the baddie you cast Darkest Night on is defeated, quickly cast Darkest Night on another baddie in the Web.

Defeating the herd
You can defeat the baddies one at a time as they're drawn into the Web, or draw many baddies and defeat them all at once. When soloing, the second option is more efficient. Use your AoE attacks, such as Tenebrous Tentacles, Night Fall, and Blackstar, to kill lots of baddies quickly.

After you've defeated the baddies in the Web, you can draw more baddies into the Web to be defeated or move on and create a new Web in a new location.

Sample Build
Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Defender
Primary Powers - Ranged : Dark Miasma
Secondary Powers - Support : Dark Blast

01 : Dark Blast Empty(01)
01 : Twilight Grasp Empty(01)
02 : Tar Patch Empty(02)
04 : Darkest Night Empty(04)
06 : Gloom Empty(06)
08 : Moonbeam Empty(08)
10 : Howling Twilight Empty(10)
12 : Shadow Fall Empty(12)
14 : Recall Friend Empty(14)
16 : Teleport Empty(16)
18 : Swift Empty(18)
20 : Hurdle Empty(20)
22 : Stamina Empty(22)
24 : Fearsome Stare Empty(24)
26 : Hasten Empty(26)
28 : Tenebrous Tentacles Empty(28)
30 : Night Fall Empty(30)
32 : Dark Servant Empty(32)
35 : Petrifying Gaze Empty(35)
38 : Blackstar Empty(38)
41 : Oppressive Gloom Empty(41)
44 : Dark Consumption Empty(44)
47 : Dark Embrace Empty(47)
49 : Soul Drain Empty(49)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl Empty(01)
01 : Sprint Empty(01)
02 : Rest Empty(02)

Sorry for the late replay Shallow. The build you have looks more like a Blastroller than a WarTroller, meaning I don't see a way to Tank in the build.

Since you've posted this, ED has come out, so you'll probably not want more than 3 of any one type of enhancement in a power.

Terrify is worth 6-slotting, Total Domination, not so much. So you can swap the slots in those two powers to up your damage capabilities and actually keep you team safer due to Terrify's shorter recharge.

Mass Hypnosis makes a nice primer for Terrify to get the 100% Containment damage bonus. If you decide to go this route, slot it with the same number of recharges as Terrify.

Mass Confusion is your #1 damage dealing power and will buff your XP over time. It's worth slotting well. 1 ACC, 3 Recharge is my recommendation.

If you want to deal damage, the Fire Epic will do more for you than Primal Forces. Primal is a nice pool, but damage is not its forte.

I've had a few requests for a post-ED WarTroller. I've put together this template that should work well regardless of the secondary. It's also a nice template for building a Blastroller (i.e. a WarTroller that can't Tank).

Lvl 1 - Mez (1 Acc, 1 End Red, 3 Dam)
Lvl 2 - Dom (1 Acc, 1 End Red, 3 Dam, 1 Recharge Reduction)
Lvl 4 - Levitate (1 Acc , 1 End Red, 3 Dam)
Lvl 6 - Confuse (1 Acc)
Lvl 8 - Hasten (3 Recharge Reductions)
Lvl 10 - Assault (1 or 2 End Red)
Lvl 12 - Travel
Lvl 14 - Travel
Lvl 16 - Fitness
Lvl 18 - Fitness
Lvl 20 - Stamina
Lvl 22 - Tactics (3 To Hit Buff)
Lvl 24 - Mass Hypnosis (1 Acc, 3 Recharge)
Lvl 26 - Terrify -(1 Acc, 3 Recharge, 2 Dam)
Lvl 28 - Whatever floats your boat
Lvl 30 - Whatever floats your boat
Lvl 32 - Mass Confusion (1 Acc, 3 Recharge)
Lvl 35 - Whatever floats your boat
Lvl 38 - Whatever floats your boat.
Lvl 41 - Fireball (1 Acc, 3 Dam, 2 Recharge)
Lvl 44 - Fire Blast (1 Acc, 3 Dam, 2 Recharge)
Lvl 47 - Whatever floats your boat
Lvl 49 - Whatever floats your boat

Taking Force Fields as a secondary automatically makes this build a WarTroller. Folks who like to herd with Rad or Storm can do that with this build also.

Taking Total Domination some time before Fireball is probably a good idea. This will let you get double damage on a back to back Fireball/Terrify attack. A single Acc in Total Dom is all that's needed.

Reverse Pull Tactic
Powers used: Mesmerize

1) When encountering a small group, Mezmerize one of the baddies and then draw the aggro of the group. You can do this by walking up to the group.
2) If possible, duck around a corner to have baddies chase you. This draws the baddies away from the sleeping baddie.

This tactic is useful for soloing.

This tactic allows the MC to ignore one baddie from a group while defeating the rest of the group.

Solo Atta Tactic
Powers used: Levitate, Dominate, Mezmerize, Hasten

1) Wait until Hasten charges up.
2) Pop 3 Lucks. Pop 3 Rages. Have 2 Respites and 2 Catch a Breaths in tray.
3) Dominate Atta. Mezmerize Atta. Levitate Atta. Repeat as needed.

This tactic is useful when soloing.

Atta is the second Elite Boss you'll meet in the Hollows. Atta doesn't have pets, but is much tougher than Frostfire in terms of hit points. You'll need the Rages and the extra damage from Mezmerize to defeat him.

Levitate, Dominate, and Mezmerize each had 3 Accuracy Training Enchancements in them when this was done.

The numerous trolls in the tunnels of the Atta mission can be easily dealt with using the tactics in this guide, particually the Conserve Endurance Tactic.

Solo Frostfire Tactic
Powers used: Levitate, Dominate, Confuse, Hasten

1) Wait until Hasten charges up.
2) Pop 3 Lucks. Have 3 Break Frees in tray.
3) Levitate Frostfire. Dominate Frostfire. Repeat as needed.
4) If Frostfire gets pets out, Confuse them, starting with Jack Frost.

This tactic is useful when soloing.

Frostfire is considered to be one of the more difficult villians in the Hollows. He is an Elite Boss and very difficult to kill, even for groups. Using this tactic the MC can defeat Frostfire in a very short amount of time with little risk.

Conserve Endurance Tactic
Powers used: Confuse

1) Confuse a member of the group you're fighting.
2) Continue to defeat the rest of the group as normal, allowing the confused baddie to assist you.

This tactic is useful when soloing.

This tactic lets the MC defeat a mob while using less endurance. The tactic can be used once the MC begins to run low on endurance, or at the beginning of a fight to prevent endurance from running low. The author was able to solo the tunnels of the Atta mission without ever having to stop for an endurance recharge using this tactic.

There'll be an update to this guide sometime in the near future. In the meantime, I'll be posting new tactics here.

The tactics listed in this guide have all been used successfully in I5.

Studies with the Fire/Ice Tank version of the WarTroller are still on-going. The build is currentlly at level 32, and damage is still a bit of a concern, though not as bad as I originally feared.

In the meantime, I'm pleased to announce the latest WarTroller build, the Dark/Dark Defender. I've tested this build up to level 41 and it performs excellently at controlling, blasting, and herding. A draft version of details on how to herd with this build using a technique call The Web is provided below.

Nurse Curse's Guide To Herding With Dark Misma
This section explains the process of herding using Dark Misma. With Dark Misma, we have the luxury of gathering the herd a little at a time if we so choose. We determine a herding location that breaks line of sight with where the baddies are currently located. I refer to this location as the Web. To herd, we build the Web, draw baddies into it, and defeat them. We can draw as many or as few baddies as we wish, and can draw new baddies after we've defeated the ones we've already drawn.

The following powers are used to herd with Dark Misma:

1) Get aggro - Use any available single target attack. In the sample build, Dark Blast is used.
2) Survive attacks that aggro brings - Darkest Night.
3) Use aggro to position baddies - Break line of sight with the baddies, usually by ducking around a corner.
4) Stop the baddies from attacking the team - Darkest Night, Tar Patch, Fearsome Stare, Dark Servant.
5) Defeat the baddies - Use any available AoE attacks. In the sample build, Tenebrous Tentacles, Night Fall, and Blackstar are used.

Examining the area
When examining the area, we want to determine where we'll build the Web and what baddies we'll draw into it. The location of the Web must break the line of sight with all the baddies we want to draw into it.

The number of baddies you can draw into the Web is limited by the range of your attacks. You can travel a short distance from the Web to increase this slightly, but not much.

Building the Web
The Web is built by laying down Tar Patch. This will be the location we draw baddies to. As already mentioned, this location must break the line of sight with where the baddies are located before we begin. Usually, this will be around a corner from the baddies.

Once we draw at least one baddie into the Web, we'll enhance the Web with Darkest Night and Dark Servant in order to keep the baddies in the Web from attacking us while we gather more baddies.

Positioning Your Team
Once you've built your Web, position the team so they don't interfere with drawing baddies into it. Usually this just means stepping back a bit from the web and not attacking.

Unlike many forms of herding, herding with the Web means that teams can attack the baddies as soon as they're in the Web, or they can wait while more baddies are being collected.

Drawing Baddies Into The Web
Baddies are drawn into the Web with any simple attack, such as Dark Blast. Simply attack the baddie and return to the Web. The baddie and his nearby friends will follow you.

If this is the first baddie you've drawn into the Web, cast Darkest Night on him to prevent him from hitting you with attacks. You can also use Fearsome Stare for this purpose. If available, summon Dark Servant to grab the baddies attention while you lure more baddies into the Web.

If you're using the Web for an extended period of time, remember to refesh Tar Patch.

If the baddie you cast Darkest Night on is defeated, quickly cast Darkest Night on another baddie in the Web.

Defeating the herd
You can defeat the baddies one at a time as they're drawn into the Web, or draw many baddies and defeat them all at once. When soloing, the second option is more efficient. Use your AoE attacks, such as Tenebrous Tentacles, Night Fall, and Blackstar, to kill lots of baddies quickly.

After you've defeated the baddies in the Web, you can draw more baddies into the Web to be defeated or move on and create a new Web in a new location.

Sample Build
Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Defender
Primary Powers - Ranged : Dark Miasma
Secondary Powers - Support : Dark Blast

01 : Dark Blast Empty(01)
01 : Twilight Grasp Empty(01)
02 : Tar Patch Empty(02)
04 : Darkest Night Empty(04)
06 : Gloom Empty(06)
08 : Moonbeam Empty(08)
10 : Howling Twilight Empty(10)
12 : Shadow Fall Empty(12)
14 : Recall Friend Empty(14)
16 : Teleport Empty(16)
18 : Swift Empty(18)
20 : Hurdle Empty(20)
22 : Stamina Empty(22)
24 : Fearsome Stare Empty(24)
26 : Hasten Empty(26)
28 : Tenebrous Tentacles Empty(28)
30 : Night Fall Empty(30)
32 : Dark Servant Empty(32)
35 : Petrifying Gaze Empty(35)
38 : Blackstar Empty(38)
41 : Oppressive Gloom Empty(41)
44 : Dark Consumption Empty(44)
47 : Dark Embrace Empty(47)
49 : Soul Drain Empty(49)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl Empty(01)
01 : Sprint Empty(01)
02 : Rest Empty(02)

This looks like it could work, Ylixian. Herding with Hurricane would take some pratice, but I've seen players do it.

I was also sent a PM where it was pointed out Mind/Kin can herd with Repel. So it looks like even with the nerf to Phase Shift, there are ways to build a WarTroller without Force Fields.

[ QUOTE ]
falls below the Mind Controller and Force Field Defender versions in terms of damage.

[/ QUOTE ]
I just realized what an incredible statement that is. I'm refering to I5, not I4, of course. Burn has been nerfed to the point where many Fire Tanks are considering dropping it, and I don't see a power in the set (not just my build, but the set) that picks up the slack even a little.

I'm new to Tanks and I5 isn't even live yet, so we'll see how that damage washes out in a few days.

The WarTroller concept is an ongoing experiement. While the Mind/FF version works very well and the FF/Rad version should also be good, I'm continuing to search for more ways to build a WarTroller.

Here's a build I'm playing now. It's based on a Fire/Ice Tank.

Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Ranged : Fiery Aura
Secondary Powers - Support : Ice Melee

01 : Frozen Fists Empty(01)
01 : Blazing Aura Empty(01)
02 : Fire Shield Empty(02)
04 : Healing Flames Empty(04)
06 : Combat Jumping Empty(06)
08 : Consume Empty(08)
10 : Taunt Empty(10)
12 : Provoke Empty(12)
14 : Super Jump Empty(14)
16 : Hurdle Empty(16)
18 : Health Empty(18)
20 : Stamina Empty(20)
22 : Plasma Shield Empty(22)
24 : Ice Patch Empty(24)
26 : Hasten Empty(26)
28 : Burn Empty(28)
30 : Acrobatics Empty(30)
32 : Intimidate Empty(32)
35 : Greater Ice Sword Empty(35)
38 : Invoke Panic Empty(38)
41 : Char Empty(41)
44 : Fireblast Empty(44)
47 : Fireball Empty(47)
49 : Fiery Embrace Empty(49)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl Empty(01)
01 : Sprint Empty(01)
02 : Rest Empty(02)

Because this build is based on a Fire Tank, there's absolutely no question about it being "as good as a real Tank".

For control, the build offers Taunt, Provoke, Ice Patch, Intimidate, Invoke Panic, and Char. This is four AoE controls and 2 single targets.

For damage the build has Frozen Fists, Blazing Aura, Burn, Fireblast, Fireball, and Fiery Embrace.

This WarTroller is very strong in the tanking and control department, but falls below the Mind Controller and Force Field Defender versions in terms of damage.

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A sad day indeed for the WarTroller. Phase Shift has been nerfed to have a 30 second duration. This means that of the builds posted here only the Force Field build remains a viable way to build a WarTroller.

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What makes PFF so great for this? Not like the defense you get from it is any better than the accuracy debuff from RI or Hurricane, and you can actually attack while using those. Which is a downfall of Phase Shift as well.

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I've tried Radiation Infection in particular (and Darkest Night) and the problem I've had is it only affects baddies in the cloud. Everyone else is taking shots at you during the entire herding process and clumping process all the way until you lock down the clumped herd. Perhaps this is just due to my lack of skill at the technique and another player could do better. If it's doable that's fantastic because it expands on the ways you can build a WarTroller.

But with PFF, you don't need to affect all the baddies, you only need to protect yourself. This is a much easier problem to solve and PFF does it very well.

Edit: At worst, you could pop 3 lucks and use RI to herd. But I don't think that's sustainable over, say, an hour's play because you'll just run out of Lucks.

For Force Field Defenders, here's a WarTroller build that uses Invoke Panic for locking down the herd and Rad blasts to defeat them.

Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Defender
Primary Powers - Ranged : Force Field
Secondary Powers - Support : Radiation Blast

01 : Neutrino Bolt Empty(01)
01 : Personal Force Field Empty(01)
02 : Deflection Shield Empty(02)
04 : X-Ray Beam Empty(04)
06 : Irradiate Empty(06)
08 : Insulation Shield Empty(08)
10 : Air Superiority Empty(10)
12 : Dispersion Bubble Empty(12)
14 : Fly Empty(14)
16 : Hurdle Empty(16)
18 : Health Empty(18)
20 : Stamina Empty(20)
22 : Hasten Empty(22)
24 : Proton Volley Empty(24)
26 : Provoke Empty(26)
28 : Cosmic Burst Empty(28)
30 : Intimidate Empty(30)
32 : Invoke Panic Empty(32)
35 : Neutron Bomb Empty(35)
38 : Atomic Blast Empty(38)

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01 : Brawl Empty(01)
01 : Sprint Empty(01)
02 : Rest Empty(02)

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Now you tell me, after I've got my Mind/Rad up to 19.

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LOL! Not my fault. This is a new nerf that just came out.

On the other hand, it's looking like with the heavy nerf to Tanks a Mind/FF WarTroller will be very close to a real Tank in I5. Plus the WarTrole gets containment double damage bonuses that are applied after the damage cap, plus has probably the best set for control in the game.

It looks like in I5 that Phase Shift will be nerfed to have 30 second duration. This means that only Force Fields remains a viable way to herd using the method described here.

A sad day indeed for the WarTroller. Phase Shift has been nerfed to have a 30 second duration. This means that of the builds posted here only the Force Field build remains a viable way to build a WarTroller.

I wanted to paste this here so I don't lose it. It's notes I made on how you can build a Tank without actually rolling a Tank.

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1) How do you get aggro?
2) How do you survive attacks that aggro brings?
3) How do you use aggro to position baddies?
4) How do you stop the baddies from attacking the team?
5) How do you defeat the baddies?

I'd say if you can do items 1 through 4, you are a Tank. Item 5 is just the natural thing to do once you've tanked the baddies.

Given the reordered list, here are a few possible answers. Some items have more than 1 answer.

1) PFF. Attacking. Debuffing. Pets.
2) PFF. Debuffing. 3 or 4 Lucks.
3) Move to a desired location that breaks line of sight with baddies.
4) AoE lockdowns. AoE Debuffs.
5) Mass Confusion and Terrify. Your teammates.

The list is mix 'n match. So you could 1) Attack. 2) Raise PFF. 3) Break line of sight. 4) Lower PFF and throw out AoE lockdowns (eg Mass Confuse). 5) Let Mass Confuse do damage and Terrify baddies to defeat them. Or you could 1) Raise PFF and walk to baddies. 2) Lower PFF and debuff baddies. 3) Break line of sight. 4) Keep debuffs going. 5) Your teammates defeat baddies.

Note that TK can perform items 1 through 4. So using TK is, effectively, tanking. Unfortunately, it's probably the most difficult form of tanking there is.

With this list, figuring out all the ways you can be a Tank means you add options for each item, 1 through 5, and then pick the options that best suit your build.

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Very, very interesting guide. I'm thinking of rolling a Controller when I5 goes live, and I'll be going either Mind/something or Gravity/Kinetics. There's plenty of advice as far as Mind goes, but what would your thoughts be on Gravity? It doesn't have to be a lot, just something short and sweet. It lacks a nuke, but it's got more direct-damage options, and a pet. Think you could make a somewhat feasible WarTroller* out of Gravity?

Again, very interesting guide.


*Capital t, always a capital t...

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I think Grav is a fine set and Grav/Kin is a nice combination that plays well. The knock usually given Gravity is that is lacks control. Kin helps overcome this with Siphon Speed. Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift add to the damage a Grav Controller can produce. Two other sets, Rad and Trick Arrow, also look to me like they'd be good matches to Grav. Both offer debufs that can be used to fill in Grav's "control gap" and Rad can increase the damage a Grav Controller can do and add an extra AoE hold to Grav in the form of EMP Pulse. Trick Arrow also has an extra AoE hold in EMP Arrow and has Oil Slick Arrow as well.

But I have to add that Mind/Kin and Mind/Rad may be some of the best Controller builds of all in I5, with Trick Arrow near the top as well.

The hard part, as I see it, about building a WarTroller with anything other than Mind is the pets. Herding with pets is difficult. Their aggro interferes with yours. And it's not clear to me that pets offer enough fire power to defeat herds single handedly. Maybe Fire/Kin could do it, but I'm not sure. Also, defeating the herd is only half the problem. You also have to lock them down. Maybe Earth could do this part. But as far as I know, Mind offers the best combination of raw power and lockdowns that you need to defeat a herd by yourself.

If Contollers who play sets other then Mind would like to chime in on this, I'd love to hear their opinions.

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Magicj,
What r ur thoughts on the big DamRes reductions on the ForceField set? A freind told me her FF toon is going to be drastically reduced
She seems to think the set won't be worth taking now. I bet u think differently.
Your thoughts?


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You're right, I think differently.

For the usual, defensive, way of using bubbles, the "big three" got hit with the nerf bat in I5. Deflection Shield, Insulation Shield, and Dispersion Bubble all had the protection they provide reduced. Some bubblers think this will put them out of business. I think that all the numerous other defensive nerfs will cause bubbles to be even more important in I5 than in I4. Players in I5 will be wanting all the defense they can get. We'll see how that goes once I5 hits live.

More importantly, a WarTroller uses bubbles differently than most Force Fielders. For a WarTroller, bubbles are used for offense. Personal Force Field and later on Force Bubble are used to manage aggro, move baddies around, and herd. So for a WarTroller bubbles are as useful as ever as neither PFF nor Force Bubble got nerfed.