macskull

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Pointless? Why? An entire support class is destroyed because so many only appreciate 1 to 2 aspects of that class?

Because the percentages aren't what they were before I13 right? Because squishies should benefit from the maximum (PvE) percentages on top of the 40% resist they already get? Do you really beleive that there is a support toon that is "solely" based on only one type of buff? I think many of us haven't stepped far enough away from I12 to look at I13 PvP from a differnt angle.

I get it. Really I do. We want support toons to be able to turn us into PvP gods and godesses again... and we shouldn't have to stay near that support toon to get the maximum benefit. We feel one buffer's contribution to a team should completely turn the tide and allow us to act foolish, wreckless and be 100% offensive with no worries about getting hit and/or hurt. Buffers and support shouldn't have to *think* about who to buff... who *needs* the shileds more, whether it's the right time to heal, or who isn't at the cap. No... it should just be spammable support powers than offer the ability to put them on auto and win. No, sorry that ship has sailed guys. It's not the end... it's the beginning.

DR does not affect everyone the same. It causes a reduced ammount of buff for the toons that already have enough of that particular buff. Another way of saying this is DR will allow support toons to provide the most def and res to those who lack them the most. For those builds that require def and res the least, well those toons may have to look at, appreciate, and take advantage of other contributions offered by these support toons. This isn't that hard to adjust to.

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I cannot read this and honestly believe that you have PvP'd.

What. The. [censored].

People complained because "Waaaaah the other team's Sonics and Therms are giving +res and we can't do enough damage!" So everyone said "Hey! Let's give all the squishies free resists, so that Sonic and Therm shields are worthless! That'll teach 'em!"

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Since when are blasters to be denied a power just because it has a defensive component? Just look at Cloaking Device -- defense toggle in a blaster set.

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The +def provided by Cloaking Device is negligible, especially when it's suppressed during combat. Its usefulness lies in the +stealth aspect.

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And to counter that sonic has -res which with power boost can be overlapped for a devastating effect

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wrong

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Second with boost range the extra range from psi is less important against a skilled player. If you cant break LOS at 120 feet you just don't know what you are doing.

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wrong

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Projectile delay seems to be just visual effect not an actual effect. The damage arrives before the projectile at least it does in my experiments.

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wrong

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Needing a few attacks to build up damage is neither here nor there. If you cant deliver enough damage in a short enough time to kill it just doesnt matter.

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wrong

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Placate proc vs getting more out of build up procs and damage procs. You pays your money and you takes yer chances.

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and wrong. Anything else?

Lol @ sticking two Blasters into the arena next to each other and pushing buttons until one dies - that's a great way to determine effectiveness in actual PvP. Fact is, if a well-built and well-played Psi Blaster can't kill something faster than a well-built and well-played Sonic Blaster,

Will Dom + TK Blast + Mental Blast (in that order) = three packets of damage (more if you have procs) hitting your target at roughly the same time, from 150+ feet (read: your target is not even in range to return fire). Let me know when you can do that with a Sonic Blaster.

EDIT: I just read your bit about your attack chains on the two Blasters, and I can say with 100% certainty that this

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Mental Blast
TK Blast
Psi Dart
Will Dom

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is why you think the Sonic is better - no halfway decent Psi Blaster will have an attack chain like that.

I think [censored] was what Gers was getting at.

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i don't think its so much wanting an emp defender to have a realitic chance of going 1 on 1 with a blaster, but a redside AT, just one redside AT capable of having a realistic chance.

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Doms, most Corruptors, MMs, pre-I13 Stalkers, pre-I14 VEATs. Don't play like an idiot and you'll beat most zone Blasters who do play like idiots because they have the mistaken idea that if they so much as look at something, it'll die.

Hmm, having the forums down for part of the double XP weekend doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

I plan on spending my time doing lots and lots of killing things (for me, it's double inf weekend since I'm guessing MA missions won't be double XP, and I can get fast XP in the MA any other time anyways). However, crafting and storing common IOs before the weekend, and then unloading them afterwards, will be profitable. I'd place lowball bids on popular items now and see if you can't get a few lucky wins in.

My Rad/Psi and Night Widow were fun. Hell, I used to use a Kat/Regen and AR/Dev and I wouldn't even think about bringing those into a zone now.

No, Eran, that's the scout oath.

I don't think Blasters will get Dark Pit - it's possible that they could get Petrifying Gaze instead (Ice, Elec, AR, Sonic, Arch, Psi, and Rad being the precedents for having a range single-target control power in the primary).

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Have you thought about sonic ? it plays better pve and works better pvp. (for now)

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Psi is still considerably better than Sonic for PvP.

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LOL is that an I like it post or a by the numbers post ?

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Well, the few sonic/em I've dueled, ive beaten. Granted, MAYBE I was a better dueler, but psy is the least resisted power set.

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Well according to real numbers in RV (your guess as good as mine if that is actually working)

psionic is 28.6% resisted by default (40 % resist bonus and DR kicking in ??) + Charged Armor which brings it up to 35.94

VS my smash/lethal of 28.6 + Charged armor which brings that up to 35.94

35.94 vs 35.94 I think it was the man in the suit that won. Grats.

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1. Psi has 4 attacks in its attack chain. Sonic has 3.
2. All of Psi's attacks have an 80 foot range. Sonic has 2 at 80 and 1 at 40.
3. Animation time on Shout is killer - it makes it hit like a truck but you can throw more damage out with a Psi in the same amount of time.
4. Projectile delay with Psi means that if you use certain attacks in the right order, and time them right, you can have multiple packets of damage landing at the same time (Will Dom + TK Blast, for example).
5. Sonic takes a few hits to build up damage from the -res, Psi delivers it all right away.
6. Psi can slot the placate proc in Will Dom. Sonic can slot it in Siren's Song, which is much less useful in terms of a realistic attack chain.

I fully plan on using double XP to replenish my inf coffers and base storage bins (oh, and make phat lewt off purples).

Maybe we'll finally get a [censored] "no base resists" option so we can start running with DR off again and my Therm will be useful for something other than Cauterize and Heat Exhaustion.

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Not all support is the same for one.

Each layer is rendered more ineffective when it's the same type of support no?

Fire Shields + cold shields + sonic shields + FF bubbles would not = the same exact buffs nor would the combination of these buff go unnoticed.

Frostwork +Sonic shields + Speed boost + IR and ID?

Artic Fog + Steamy mist + Shadowfall... while standing in the AoE patches these sets offer?

Examples could go on and on... not everything is about healing repeatedly. If we as a PvP community consider a set to be the "best" at supportting in PvP and just try to multiply that set several times, (see FoTM) we gimp ourselves in Zone PvP... we fail to look into potent combinations of support that will equal that which we thought was lost.

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Here's something you don't seem to grasp: just like in PvE, buffer synergy used to be important in PvP - it's more effective to stack the same type of buff until you reach a cap, and then add other buffs, instead of trying to go for a mixture (in the case of pre-I13 PvP that usually meant stacking +res until you got to the cap, and then adding on a bit of +def, in terms of survivability). Now, it doesn't make sense to stack the same types of buffs, and it also doesn't make sense to stack different kinds of buffs. Why stack Therm/Sonic shields when the first one adds maybe 4-5% resists, and the rest are just there for show (3 Therms on my team in RV the other night and my resistances went from 40% to 47% with the 3 stacked shields)? Why stack FF/Cold shields when the first one adds maybe 10% defense (need I remind you that without elusivity, defense is largely worthless thanks to DR?)? The only meaningful contribution a buffer can make in terms of survivability is a few percent here and there, unless you're talking about a non-squishy AT, which doesn't really need the buffs in the first place. That's why even with DR and heal decay the only buffs that really matter anymore are +HP and +damage - because that's all PvP is now.

But, I'll humor you and take a look at the examples of non-same-type buffs you listed.

* Therm + Sonic + Cold + FF. Good luck finding a Sonic or FF in a PvP zone these days. Sonics are worthless because the shields grant a negligible amount of extra resistance, the bubble no longer provides mez protection, Clarity is useless, and the cage lasts 4 seconds (8 seconds if you're a Controller). FFers are worthless largely for the same reason (though their AoE repel toggle can be useful for messing with Stalkers). You might see a Therm, and you might see a Cold, but most won't have their shields because again, they're making a more meaningful contribution by simply giving up on that and focusing on damage and debuffs.

* Frostworks + Sonic + SB + ID/IR: Frostworks is somewhat useful but its full functionality is largely wasted when most PvP builds are only a few hundred HP off the cap anyways. Again, haven't seen a Sonic around much since I13. Kins are very much worthless other than debuff and disruption - unresisted travel suppression took care of that. These days you might see a Kin tossing around ID to help with knockback or TP foe.

* Arctic Fog + Steamy Mist + Shadow Fall: the +res and +def get DR'd, and relying on those as part of your survivability is kind of stupid especially given the fact that moving around means you'll often be outside the radius of those powers. Can you turtle? Sure, but you won't get kills that way. Turtling is for MM huddles and pre-I13 Storm teams.

You don't know what you're talking about, and I'd be very surprised if you said you played any sort of support role before I13. So please, spare us your wisdom and let us continue to demonstrate why buffs by and large suck now.

Eh, Rad Blasters soon enough.

I figure closed beta starts near the beginning of August, and runs a month, followed by 2-4 weeks of open. Last time there was powerset proliferation the closed beta lasted quite a while, if I remember (though there were also two new ATs to test at that time).

I think that someday we'll wake up and this thread will just be

I'd put in a good word for option 3 - I'd rather not relive the monkey cage match.

That's what I've heard as well - RMT spammers were using them to get names, so now they don't work.

Lemon-scented pledge?

Hey, training room's going down for I16 beta Soon (TM). Remember when PvPers used to care about that?

I'd slot it 4x Devastation (all but the Dam/End and hold proc), Explosive Strike proc, and Gladiator's Javelin proc. There are some people that slot it for knockback but I'd rather have my target dead than KB'd and leave the KB to the Mind and Grav 'trollers, YMMV.

wut

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Have you thought about sonic ? it plays better pve and works better pvp. (for now)

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Psi is still considerably better than Sonic for PvP.

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I think both sides were right.

In PvE changes are made and adjustments can be made by an entire community almost overnight. The changes made to Hamidon a few issues back comes to mind.

PvP was changed dramatically, but many zone PvPers are still hell bent on this arena/Solo fotm mentality.... Instead of a "team fotm" mentality.

before ED, just about any and every guide out there listed the standards of 1-2 Acc/5-6 Damage... 6 slotting rech and recovery in hasten and stamina etc... It's almost like the devs had to force us to slot better and get more out our powers by introducing IOs and capping stadard enhancement bonuses.

They've done the same to PVP in a way.... Many pvpers could not see what adjustments were needed in Zone pvp to make it fun again... many didn't even try to see. So naturally things just graviatate towards the builds that can solo the best or stand up to more than 2 opponents at a time. This isn't the devs fault imo... it's ours. We've gimped our ownselves by believing and stating certain sets are useless and gimped in pvp... because these beliefs and statements are based on solo builds instead of team builds.

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Yeah, lemme know when Sonics and Kins are useful again, then you might have a point.

The changes of I13 were supposed to eliminate FotMs. Instead, they've done just the opposite - because everything is supposedly all the same, those sets that are even just a bit better than their counterparts are simply the best option. They've gone from "trying to eliminate FotMs" to "making FotMs even more important for success, and making less builds viable in the process." Thanks to DR and heal decay, the role of buffers in a team setting has been severely reduced. That is why you see more "solo-oriented" or "damage-oriented" builds - not because the players necessarily want to, but because they've been shoehorned into playing them by the rules imposed on them.