macskull

Again, find me that group. Please, I already offered to pay your subscription. Of course I'm not going to approve of a ruleset that cripple's both participants' abilities to fully play their characters, but that might just be the good PvPer in me speaking. If you don't at least take a glance at the ruleset before jumping into a match, you're either naive or a moron. You'll also notice that most of the players who go on and on about fiteklub and how using inspirations is cheating play melee builds. You'll also notice that those melee builds are the ones with gobs of HP, lots of defense or resistance or heals (or a combination thereof), and often respectable damage at range. Of course they want to duel you with inspirations off and travel suppression and heal decay on, because those are the conditions they will most likely win easily under. I prefer to play under a ruleset where player skill still has at least a small impact in the outcome of the match, and which allows a closer match between a wider variety of builds, which is why I refuse to fight without at least the option to use inspirations in case I need to, and why I won't generally fight with TS and HD on (though I've been known to on some occasions).

Not sure what you're getting at here. I did say you're free to build however you want, but bear in mind that some powers are simply more useful than others for PvP so it is to your benefit to build with those powers. That has nothing to do with the players and everything to do with how the system works (it's even worse now than it was before I13 because of how powers work so differently in PvP than they do in PvE).

Why do people build specifically for a particular zone? They spend more time there and only have certain powers available and their IO sets need to be a certain level to keep the set bonuses. Same reason a PvEer might build a character for running task forces or flashbacks - build IO sets and pick powers around the target exemplar level. Why do people build differently for zone or arena? Because the parameters are different and you can't just run back to the base in the arena so you need to be able to stay in the fight the entire ten minutes. Same reason people build differently for farming, AV soloing, or general PvE.

FotMs aren't in existence because players need to use them so much as they exist because they are the most effective at what they do. Try farming as effectively as a Fire/Kin on your Ice/Ice Blaster and see what happens. Get what I'm saying here? I did say there exist useless powers and even useless powersets in a certain environment. For example, Sonics and Kins are largely worthless in PvP because much of what those sets do is negated by free base resistance, DR, and travel suppression.You are right in that I'm not speaking in absolutes here, but I am telling you the facts. Fact: certain powers are bad for PvP. Fact: certain powersets are bad for PvP. I could go on, but I'd rather not.

You can enable temp powers in the arena. In fact, there's a set of temp powers specifically flagged for use in the arena. (The option I'm referring to allows non-arena temps, such as Sands of Mu or other vet rewards). This option wasn't around until I15 (or I16, I don't remember) so for 11 or 12 issues of PvP players only used what powers they had available to them. If someone wants to fight with temp powers on, sure, but it's generally not a threat because most temp powers aren't good. Of course I am admitting I have a preference in rulesets - I prefer the one that's the most balanced for the widest variety of powersets and ATs. Sounds like a solid preference to me, wouldn't you say? Dependence, though? Hardly. As I've said more than a few times now, I've fought under various rulesets and in many of those cases I actually won by more under the ruleset my opponent preferred. And as I've mentioned, inspiration-off dueling is stupid because it's boring, predictable, and unbalanced. I'm sorry for preferring the options that are the most balanced, the most interesting, and still allow for some semblance of skill.


Again. I think the whole thing is funny because it's just a matter of saying "I can't win that way." However it seems that it's easier to some to simply LoL and make threads to cover up the fact.

Sitting in melee range with another melee character requires neither commitment nor knowledge. It does, however, require a good build, so it makes the fight more about the build than the skill. Sadly, the I13 changes managed to reinforce this mentality across the entire PvP system, not just one tiny subset of zone players.

You forgot option C - disagreement is proof of wanting a ruleset that best promotes balance between the widest variety of ATs and powersets. Also, lol @ calling me ignorant and envious. Really, if you're going to try and troll, you need to try harder. Learn the facts, and then come back.

(By the way, I bet you'll never guess how I started PvPing.)

EDIT: Nice job sneaking that last little paragraph on there. However, it's once again proving you need to learn facts before you try to butt heads with me. Read the threads I've started here since I13 about suggestions for improvements to PvP. You'll notice I admit multiple times that I know we're not going to go back to the old system so I'm looking for improvement to the current system. Doesn't sound like being "stuck on I12" or "high-end arena PvP class of 2008" to me.

If you're Scorp, I'd bring oranges instead of purples. DR will eat pretty heavily into even one small purple on a squishy so they're just a waste of tray space. Factoring in the base resistances and DR you're losing about 10-15% resistance to everything by taking the defense shield instead of the resistance shield, and that is noticeable (which is why oranges should help cover it).

Given that choice of PvP characters you listed, I'd personally try the Ice/Cold or Earth/Fire but I'm not a very good dueler so don't listen to me.

Way to completely miss the mark as well as any of the facts surrounding what I said. During the I13 beta, there was quite a bit of feedback from existing PvPers on why the proposed changes were not going to accomplish the changes the devs wanted to make, and some even offered suggestions to actually accomplish those changes. For the most part, feedback was ignored.

Please find me a "group of PvPers that requires a certain build, certain powers and excel at PvP only under certain rules." In fact, I'll pay your sub for the rest of the time you play the game if you can do that. Now, here are the facts (listen, I know this is hard for you):

* PvP has never required a certain build except in very high-end organized arena team PvP. Why? Under normal circumstances (zone, random arena, etc.) a good player can make just about anything work. In high-end arena, on the other hand, you had two very skilled teams competing against each other, often to the point where a split-second lapse in judgment would mean an 0-1 loss. In situations like that, you needed the very best players playing the very best builds in order to stay competitive. (Note that this kind of PvP doesn't exist anymore, as I13 managed to kill organized arena PvP.)

* PvP has never required you to take or skip certain powers. Of course, PvP is a subset of the whole game, just like farming or AV/GM soloing. You're not going to skip all your AoEs on a farming character because you need to build for the situation at hand. PvP is burst-damage single-target focused, so the best powers for PvP are ones that adhere to that focus. In the case of Phase or Hibernate... no, they're not required, and I'm not going to make fun of someone for not having such a power in their build, but thanks to heal decay and travel suppression the desirability for such powers is exponentially higher than it was in the pre-I13 days.

* PvPers have never required a certain ruleset to "excel." DR on or off, travel suppression on or off, heal decay on or off, I'll do just fine. Of course, high-end PvPers have a preference for arena options simply because they want something as similar as possible to the good PvP this game used to have, not dumbed-down and slowed-down combatants-tied-together-with-rope-and-knives PvP. Again, I realize this is hard for you to understand, so I'll try and get it across in a way you can understand: a good PvPer will do well no matter what the ruleset. In fact, there've been a few times where I asked for no TS/no HD matches against an opponent, won, and they requested a match with TS and HD on... and I won the rematches by even more. Now, of course you'll say "a good PvP will be able to duel without inspirations too" and you'd be right. I've gone through many arena matches without ever using an inspiration simply because I didn't need to. However, PvPers use inspirations because they help to even out situations which would otherwise be clear-cut rock/paper/scissors matches. I go up against something that slows my recharge to a crawl? Okay, I need to kill it fast, so I'll bring reds and try to get the kill before they completely remove my ability to attack... and so on.

Why do the serious PvPers laugh at fiteklubbers? It's quite simple - the fiteklubbers are only limiting themselves by not being open to the variety of tactics that makes PvP interesting. No-inspiration matches are boring and predictable because it's usually clear from the very beginning who will win. Melee vs melee duels (regardless of the settings, or who's playing the characters, really) are just boring because it's two big bags of HP with self-heals hitting each other until someone dies.

Get wrecked.

Don't take Parry, it will reduce your damage output and only helps assuming you're standing in melee range the entire time (you shouldn't be).

Domination and Power Boost don't affect KB. A squishy will be able to resist slotted Power Push provided they've got around 41 points of KB protection with DR on (with DR off they'd need something like 47). KB isn't "king" because most of the bad players are running on melee characters who never get KB'd anyways. KB is unbalanced in its current form because it's all-or-nothing and you need to spend many millions of inf buying IOs to counter the effects of a few powers that can be slotted with SOs.

That would work if anyone actually used those matches.

lol @ using tier 3 inspires in a duel. Your build must really suck if you need to carry tier 3's around.

(See what I did there?)

A "real dueler" will be ready to go as soon as the match starts. There's a 30-second countdown before the match starts, which is more than enough time to buff (hell, that's enough time to buff your entire team in an 8v8). When that "buff players" timer is done counting down, the match has started. If you're not ready, tough. The situation being described was someone wondering why their travel powers weren't working, because they didn't know the lister of the event had disabled them. That's not an issue with attacking before your opponent is ready, that's an issue with knowing settings before you go into a match.

You can already look at the rules before the match starts. Join, click the "more options" button, and if you don't like them, quit the match before it starts and send the other player a tell asking them to change stuff.

Nope, neither my Emp nor my Therm have customized anything, and they're still getting rooted periodically. Seems to be completely random - at first I thought it was like every other time but the more I toyed with it the more I realized it's just random. Funny thing is, I can't get it to replicate on a PvE map.

For what it's worth, I wasn't referring to your post when I mentioned ranting. I'm talking more about the random people who pop into the PvP section and make a new thread ranting about this-or-that power or AT is broken and it should be nerfed, and never come back into the thread again. My apologies, I should've been more clear.

Agreeing with Flea here. The pentad plus last summer (before I13) was kinda cool because there were actually enough PvPers on Justice to field enough unique teams to make that work, but I'm not sure if that's the case this go-around. Heck, the last attempt at a tournament on Justice didn't end well and that was a 3v3. Finishing it over one or two nights is probably in everyone's best interests. Of course, depending what time of day it is and what day of the week it is, I won't likely be able to attend unless I know a few weeks ahead of time (need to ask time off work if it's in the evening), but I'm hoping I can make it and I wish you luck in getting this off the ground.

EDIT:If you're going to stretch this out over several weeks instead of getting it done in one or two nights, you might be better-served by turning it into a ladder instead of just a tournament. Have a set of round-robin ranking matches to determine initial standings and then set up rules for challenges from there (i.e. one team challenges another and the challenged team has two weeks to accept the challenge and play a match or the challenged team forfeits that match). Dunno how well that'd work, but just throwing it out there.

So you're okay with enabling the temp powers in the arena but you don't like it when people use inspirations, travel powers, or phase/Hibernate. Got it. Remind me to lol next time I roflstomp you in RV.

Why would you ever use Hibernate or Phase to wait out a damage burst? That's what moving around and breaking line of sight is for. Hibernate and Phase are for when you actually need to use them. Using Hibernate or Phase "offensively" in the instances you continually describe should never have to happen for a competent player.

We caught this Blaster with double HE right outside the hero base and he hit Hibernate, didn't regain any HP during the 30 seconds he was in it... so as soon as he came out, it was just a matter of plinking him once and letting Scourge do the rest.

no.

It does, in a way - you can have up to 5 of each kind (15 total, were you able to actually slot that many).

Now that I'm looking in Mids, Elec/SS is actually kinda tough to fit everything in... I threw together some power picks quick, but I'm not sure if skipping Fitness is ultimately the best for a Tanker (I did in this build, as in a team scenario you'll basically be a tauntbot that uses Fossilize to contribute to spikes occasionally). I was able to build up a sizable amount of KB protection outside of Grounded via Acrobatics and Steadfast -KB's (in your armor toggles and Grounded, possibly one in Power Surge as well), Karma -KB's (Combat Jumping, Stealth, Grant Invis), and Zephyr -KB's (Super Speed, Combat Jumping, Super Jump). Obviously you won't need all of them, just enough to get 40-44 when Grounded isn't in effect, or closer to 30 if you plan on always staying on the ground.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 48 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Electric Armor
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Earth Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Armor -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Jab -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Conductive Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Haymaker -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Static Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Grounded -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Taunt -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Energize -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Super Speed -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Lightning Reflexes -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Super Jump -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Power Sink -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Rage -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Acrobatics -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Hurl -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Stealth -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Grant Invisibility -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Stone Prison -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Fossilize -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Phase Shift -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals: