kendo

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Because all of us saying this are aware of builds where you could.

You have to view it in terms of the characters that can. The ones who happen to not be able to aren't the problem. You can't just look at how nice it would be for the builds who would end up with middle-of-the-road benefits when there are other builds who would converge on the extremes.

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and you all know this how? as it isn't currently implemented, I don't see how any of you know with certainty what builds, if any, would be able to take it to the extremes for both def and resist. I, for one, give the developers some credit and think they would take that into account when creating new sets and, possibly, modifying old ones.

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on the other hand, along the same lines, if there were IO sets available that gave me more resist bonuses, I would expect to pay the price in slots used also. so I wouldn't have the slots left to heavily slot for defense bonuses.

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Again, this is true for some builds and not for others.

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again, we don't know that for a fact at all. I could just as easily see a system where the expense, in slots needed, to max out one side of the equation, defense or resist, doesn't leave you enough room to come any where close to maxing out the other side.

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as far as the argument that we have way more +def options because there are more -def powers used by mobs. well, players have several powers that have a -resist attribute, would think it very possible to add -resist to some of the mob's powers. they already have a good assortment of -def, -recharge, -to hit; could make things more interesting if a few had -resist.

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Mechanically, -resist is completely different from -defense. Defense penetrators subtract directly from your defense, after you resist them (if you can). DR "penetrators" are, effectively, scale factors on your damage because all DR resists all DR debuffs. The end result would not be the same.

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and mechanics cannot change? power customization? power proliferation? ED slotting? introduction of IOs themselves? mechanics change all the time.

again, I am not saying they should just willy nilly slap a bunch of +resist IO bonuses out there without taking into consideration the very good points and concerns that you and others have raised. but I still believe that it should be possible to create these in such a way as to give us more options when building a character.

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The devs have three choices.

1) Everyone gets to buff themselves heavily with one method
2) Everyone gets to buff themselves heavily with both methods
3) No one gets to buff themselves with either method

We know the devs probably don't want to allow number 2, since that will let characters who can reach both caps be something like 2-5x tougher to kill than they are today.



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except why is everyone assuming that you would be able to buff yourself heavily with both?

for most characters, you have to make a very large investment in slots to get to, or close to, soft capped defense. that isn't going to leave enough slots to also get my resists up to the 70% + range.

on the other hand, along the same lines, if there were IO sets available that gave me more resist bonuses, I would expect to pay the price in slots used also. so I wouldn't have the slots left to heavily slot for defense bonuses.

as far as the argument that we have way more +def options because there are more -def powers used by mobs. well, players have several powers that have a -resist attribute, would think it very possible to add -resist to some of the mob's powers. they already have a good assortment of -def, -recharge, -to hit; could make things more interesting if a few had -resist.

I am not asking for alternatives on how to make the fire tank stronger. I have acknowledged, multiple times, that I know I can add defense to him.

I was using a fire tank as a comparison to something like a SR scrapper. basically the same point that txpoodoo is making. that the game, in my opinion, is becoming too skewed towards one solution for everyone - defense. and that solution is not equally beneficial to all characters due to some of the factors that txpoodoo noted, like SR getting large amounts of protection from defense debuffs.

and I would disagree with the contention that adding + res IOs to the game would be too powerful. you only have a limited number of powers and slots, so you would have to choose between res or def; could go mostly def or mostly res or try for a middle ground.

for example, I can now put Touch of Death in a melee power and increase my melee defense by 3.75%. so give us a melee power IO that increases some of my resistances by a comparable amount. believe the usual ratio thrown around is 2:1, so 7.5%

if you make these either / or you shouldn't be able to make a character that is capped out in both resist and defense. if need be, maybe you reduce the amount of the defense and resistance buffs provided by IOs just a little. say 3 and 6% or even 2.5 and 5%.

with something like this, you would then have more options to tune your character the way you would like. go all out defense, go all out resists or go for more of a middle ground.

as I stated in my previous post, I know that I can add defense to my fire tank as easily as you can now add defense to just about any build. my point, and I believe the point of the OP, is that I think we should be given alternatives.

I would like the option to build a tank that doesn't rely on defense but resistance. one that doesn't care if it gets hit because it will shrug off 80 - 90 % of the damage.

if I have a def based character, I can easily build upon it's core mitigation tools. but if I have a resistance based character, I cannot. the only good way to increase his survivability is by adding defense, not more resistance.

not saying adding defense doesn't make him harder to defeat, but looking for other ways to get there

was just getting ready to open up a similar thread when I happened to open up this one. not even sure why as the subject doesn't give any clue what it's about.

but subject wording aside, I could not agree more with the original poster. finally getting the funds to start improving several of my characters with IOs

SR scrapper - goes from good to almost godly with the abundance of easily available defense buffs from IOs. from having to work to get above 30 def to all positions, it's a snap to get at least 40 - 45 or more def.

blaster - goes from very squishy with little defense, mezz protection or resistance to many times more durable as I can get at least 30 % def with little effort.

shield tank - durability with soft-capped def even more noticable than my SR scrapper.

and then there's my fire tank -- whose resistances were apparently designed to help him survive like the defenses do for my defense based characters.

so if they can increase their defense by upwards of 50% and survivability more like 4X, then I should be able to do the same with my fire tank and IOs, right? I will just go out and get all those nice set bonuses that raise my resistance from 60 or 70 % to the cap, for tanks, of 90%.

let's see, that would be a set of the ..... hmm no, guess it would be over in ...... hmm guess not there either. in fact, with very few exceptions like toxic resists for the 6th piece of purple sets, there is almost nothing you can slot to provide passive bonuses to your resists.

some resist buff IOs really need to be added to help balance things out a bit. yes, I can make my fire tank tougher to take down by slotting for def but that's not his thing. he's big, he's slow, no he can't dodge 90% of what you throw at him. but he doesn't care because all you can do is tickle him as you beat on him.

I like having the options to play different ways and I think there are many other people out there with the same opinion. how can it be bad for the game to have more than 1 way to feel like your hero is actually, you know, heroic

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There is not a 2nd tier badge for any day job location.

Their IS a 2nd teir power for most if not all. Taking the arena as an example

Until you get the badge, you get the 'duelist' day job power which is +4 endurance
Once you get the badge, time is accumulated on the 'expert duelist' day job power, which is +6 endurance.

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you are absolutely correct cat. I know there isn't a second badge, misspoke there, but there is a second tier which can be nice. like vanguard vet giving 2 extra vg merits instead of 1 at mission complete.

but regardless of my incorrect choice of wording, do you know of a list of which day jobs have a second tier. as you noted, it may be most but don't believe it is all. and as it's not a badge and, therefore, no bar to look for it would be nice to know so I don't log off in places where it is not doing any good.

thanks

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running both at the same time is rarely useful (not never -- you can trap a foe in a corner and use both, but there's not much benefit to that).

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I haven't used AA much at all, but I am very familiar with Hurricane and that's why I was wondering whether people picked one over the other. I just couldn't see them being used at the same time

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But my favorite use is in the cul-de-sacs on many maps, where I can use Gale to throw the foes into the back, turn on Hurricane to keep them trapped and unable to hit me much, then unleash Tornado and Lighting Storm, Freezing Rain and my APP AoE damage powers. Then I can pick off foes one by one with BoI, Chilblain and my APP blast.

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I have run several characters with storm and this is my favorite use for hurricane and try to bunch things as constantly as possible. which would mean that AA would be off a substantial amount of the time and why I was wondering if it was worth taking both.

looks like it's definitely worth testing out. either on test server or with alternate build.

to throw out one more combination here, how many of the ice/storm folks use AA and hurricane? I have a mid level ice/storm and am finding almost nothing for recent guides. lots of /storm and some ice/ but not the combination

and while most of the ice guides recommend AA and almost all /storm guides recommend hurricane, I question having both, especially in light of the other discussions here about snow storm and shiver.

I am thinking that if I use hurricane, I should skip AA and get either, or both, shiver and snow storm. those 2 operate at range and hurricane will keep them at range.

if I want to use AA, then leave out hurricane though I am leaning towards the camp that suggests getting shiver or snow storm to complement AA

thoughts? suggestions?

and if someone has a more recent guide that you could point me to for an ice/storm combo, I would love to see it

the wiki lists also do not include the 2nd tier day job badges. does anyone know where there is a list of which day jobs have a 2nd level

for example, there are 2 levels of Vanguard - the Vanguard recruit, which is listed in wiki and a Vanguard Veteran, which is not listed in wiki. I have also gotten a 2nd level for the AE Architect badge and a 2nd tier in Wentworths for the teleporter.

do all day jobs have a second tier? they don't show a progress bar like the 1st tier badges do but after (I assume) a second 21 days in the location, you get the badge notice.

"Ice Arrow and Moonbeam are in there purely to hold IO sets for the bonuses, I don't use either power. When the next freespec comes, I'll replace Moonbeam with EMP, slot EMP with 4/6 Basilisk's Gaze and move the extra slot... I don't know yet, still trying to decide what to do with that slot. Might save up some merits and pick up a level 10 Blessing of the Zephyr -KB, then pair that with another IO from that set to put me over the soft cap for Ranged Defense. Or I might put the slot in Soul Drain and stick a +Perception IO in it. Or... *shrug*"

or here's a crazy idea, Luminara.

as you weren't using moonbeam as an attack. drop it, move maneuvers do that spot, add in tactics. 3 slot tactics with 2 from the adjusted targeting set and the + perception IO from reticulated.

the other two freed up slots go into dark blast and gloom, last piece of the thunderstrike set.

you lose a couple seconds of recharge bonus from the manticore that was in moon beam. but you gain the + perception IO and a little over 3% more ranged defense. also get some nice extras from tactics itself, including even more + perception. which could free up that perception IO for use in a number of other places.

of course, you also don't have EMP arrow. but as you have commented in another ta/dark thread - if nothing can hit you, do you need everything held?

anyway, I am having fun playing around with all the "what if" scenarios in Mids. amazing how many different ways you can slot things when you have powers doing so many different things

thanks Luminara for the very detailed reply. I think I have a pretty good understanding of the concept with to hit debuff vs. defense, though I hadn't put together the exact numbers.

mainly just wanted to make sure that I wasn't totally overlooking something in the builds in relation to ranged defense.

though one other difference I see between having high range defense, like a SR scrapper, and getting it via THDB like here is the initial strike. you start at 17, add in 9 for flash but when the first damaging attack hits, you're defending at 26 or maybe 35 if you get credit for the debuff before they return fire.

but on the other hand, like you mentioned, you can stack attacks faster than some of the previous debuffs would wear off. so could actually reach higher levels of protection, especially on anything that's around long enough to get hit more than 2 or 3 times

but based on this analysis, would you recommend a bit higher than normal accuracy in these attacks, whether through actual enhancements in the powers or set or global IO bonuses? as your debuff is tied to hitting, it makes hitting twice as important - need it for both the damage to land and your debuff.

thanks again for the ongoing education. much appreciated.

but now I need to think of a good name for a new TA/Dark defender, darn you

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When the next freespec comes, I'll replace Moonbeam with EMP, slot EMP with 4/6 Basilisk's Gaze and move the extra slot... I don't know yet, still trying to decide what to do with that slot. Might save up some merits and pick up a level 10 Blessing of the Zephyr -KB, then pair that with another IO from that set to put me over the soft cap for Ranged Defense. Or I might put the slot in Soul Drain and stick a +Perception IO in it. Or... *shrug*



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very interesting idea with the TA/Dark combination. may just have to give that one a try. but question about your comment regarding the Blessing of the Zephyr putting you at the soft cap for ranged defense.

according to the numbers in Mid's, for your build as shown before swapping in Blessing, range defense is only 17%. that's a long ways from the soft cap of 45%. are you factoring in some of the to hit debuffs from various powers? or am I missing some other major piece here?

hope you keep providing some updates on your various posts about archery and trick arrow. have found them very useful and much appreciated

thank you so much for posting this. have used the original numpad guide since it came out, but was doing a lot of searching around to add in things like the more recent body guard function. having it all in one place now is fantastic !!

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just made a arch/nrg, like it alot....devices? not a chance....the only useful power there imo is targeting drone and archery already gets a acc bonus of what? 16%?

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well, web grenade and caltrops aren't totally worthless to a blaster. keeps those melee mobs off of you or let's you run away and regroup.

but yeah, I tried to make an arrow/dev. got him to around 24 and he wasn't too bad. then I made a second arrow with energy secondary and enjoying it a whole lot more.

devices, in general, just seems so weak since ED. I used to have several DEV characters because I could slot targeting drone with 4 or 5 to hit buffs and then slot attacks with 5 or 6 damage. was a reasonable trade-off for not having build up but with the current effective limit of 3 damage in attacks, it just isn't worth it any more (IMHO, of course)

hi all,

wanted to come and give a bit back to this wonderful guide. after a bunch of trial and error, found the .ogg to silence crytal armor.

it uses: glow5_loop.ogg under the Powers folder.

thanks again to everyone that has contributed to this thread. it has made the experience much more enjoyable

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I hope people are still paying attention to this thread. I have found it SOOO useful.

I've got one that has stumped me now though, and it's driving me batty (literally, I have replaced my villans face with the bat face until I get this silenced)...

Can anyone help me figure out how to silence the power Shockwave? It's neat the first few times but it's really loud and annoying. I've silenced EVERY file with Sonic in the name, along with Repulsion, Resonator, and a few others.

Please oh please figure this out guys/gals. I have a villan who will die horribly if he doesn't quit making that horrible noise.

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any luck finding this one?? didn't see where there were any replies later in this thread and I would also love to find the switch to turn this one off

thanks to anyone who can help

sorry if I missed it, but didn't see any info regarding the crystal armor from the stone armor set. does anyone know which power loop controls that one??

why do you link the effectiveness of Aim and Build-up to having a snipe attack??

if anything, I find that Aim and Build-up are even more helpful to a fast cycling stream of attacks, like Ice. you can easily get off 4 or 5 attacks within the 10 second window of these 2 powers and get around 40 - 100% damage/accuracy bonus.

after ED, that extra damage bonus is very, very nice on all attacks, not just snipe. in fact, I find it less useful on Snipe now, because with ED, you can't slot enough damage enhancers in Snipe to be able to take our higher lvl LTs like you used to with BU + Snipe.

if you are concerned with having to get closer to Mobs before activating Aim or BU, then get stealth as one of your power pool choices. let's you position yourself right where you want to be. hit aim/BU, then unlease Icy Death

nice write up North Star,

and for really, really sick damage, partner with a fire/dark corrupter

by lvl 12, you have snow storm + tar patch. snared to a crawl + debuffed. then throw ice storm + rain of fire, with a fire ball appetizer. sit back and watch all the damage numbers float up and the bad guys go down

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In my opinion, I’m not sure how useful this is given that Fire is probably the most resisted damage type in the game.

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since when has fire been recognized as the most resisted damage type in the game?? always thought that smashing/lethal held that distinction, especially if you have any intention of going PvP.

not trying to argue with you here, just really interested in how you arrived at this conclusion.

agreed,

I seldom spend much time on test. just figure what will be, will be and I will adapt to the changes when they go live. but I have spent many hours on test with I5 because I was so looking forward to bow sets.

was having a real tough time trying to choose between making a bow blaster or a bow defender. thank you for helping make that decision. R.I.P bow defender cuz with these changes you will never be played.

devs - would you please answer 1 question. you already know how to keep powers from stacking, you do it already with things like FF bubbles. so why can't you just say that things in this set, like glue arrow can not stack from the same source?? let me have it available and let me decide when to use it. if you feel that stacked glue arrows are too powerful, fine, just code it like a FF bubble and make them not stack.

all this does is make the low levels before 6 slotted hasten and SOs way too painful and forces us even more into having to have hasten. something I thought you said you didn't want to have to be "mandatory"

oh well, it was fun for a week on test :-(

dark one,

very nice review of most of the powers. but I would question, just a bit, your review of aim and build-up, especially aim. you basically dismiss this power, except for bosses or AVs because you don't need the extra accuracy.

to that extent I agree with you, but as I understand it the two components of aim are: greatly increases your accuracy (this = 100% increase) and slightly increase your damage (this = 66%). a 66% increase to your damage !! not sure I would consider that a "slight" increase. I know you are just repeating the wording that's on the power, but (to me) that wording is very misleading.

build-up is reversed. it grants you a 100% increase to damage and a 66% increase to accuracy.

with the fairly quick recycle times on ice attacks, you can usually get off several blasts, bitter ice blasts, freeze rays, etc in the 10 second duration of those powers.

think about it this way. Aim basically = 2 damage SOs and Build up = 3 damage SOs. that's pretty significant starting as early as lvl 4.

to each their own, but one of the big advantages of the energy secondary is that you get build up at lvl 4, by far the earliest of any secondary. I slot both of those with at least 2 recharges, would probably go 3 here without hasten, and use them in every battle.

if there is one mob I really, really need to hit I might wait until both are ready and hit aim + build up. normally, I just alternate with which ever one is up.

knew that fly caps out at level 50 with 4 SOs. actually, it is so close to capped with 3 that most people recommend slotting for 3, or slot for 4 for lower levels and swap out for endur reduction late.

however, Katah's post was regarding Hover, not fly. from what I have read in several other posts, Hover does not max out at 4 SOs, that you do gain additional travel speed going with 6. if you have tested this and believe otherwise, I would like to hear about your testing.

thanks