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Quote:Couple of threads about this already.Interesting. It used to work differently. I guess the patch with the new walk feature also changed this!
The general consensus is that too many players were using rep as an insult board to get around forum rules, and the mods had enough of deleting comments filled with profane and vulgar words. -
Quote:Because a lot of people weren't treating it as a fun little game.Hmmm. So now rep is completely useless rather than being useless but entertaining.
So how does that gel with the original comment about it being "Just a fun little forum game"?
I've cracked before about the Windows Fanatics that left rep, but it really wasn't a joke. Most of the neg-rep I got was extremely vulgar and directly insulting. I comments that were censored by the forums filtering software, posted by people deliberately trying to get around the forum rules. I even, I think, coined the term hell-reppers to describe players on the forum whose only intent seemed to be to negative rep and insult anybody who said anything they disagreed with.
Much like Bill though, I'm going to speak my mind. I am going to say what I think is true, and what I think is right. I'm not going to say something I don't believe, or say something I think is outright wrong or a lie just to please somebody who can push a button and leave a cutesy little comment.
So like Bill, I highly doubt that the reputation system actually changed, or modified, anybody's behavior. Even those that got slammed with Negative rep because they posted flame-bait threads generally have held to their guns on their arguments. Just look at the various Lets Merge the Server threads.
Another aspect is the limitations on how often you can negative rep somebody. Now, I know what rep comments I got on what posts, and I know that for the most part, every time I got neg-repped on a post, I got positive repped as well by somebody saying I wish I had the guts to say that in the forums, or your asking for lightning, but somebody had to say it.
Given the way some of the neg-rep comments were delivered, I suspect that much of the neg-rep I got was coming from maybe 4 or 5 repeat players. Given that I also know that you can rep so often in 24 hours, and that you can only rep somebody once before having to rep other people, that suggests that the hell-reppers were actively going around repping other people, or repping themselves, so that they could neg-rep a particular player.
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Another aspect is that the rep system discouraged players from actually participating in a thread. By removing the ability to conveniently leave comments, there is an aspect that the forum mods could be moving people to actually post in the thread and stay involved. -
Quote:Oig.Ok, but...
http://ati.amd.com/products/radeon70...000/index.html
So that's what I was going by. I can't help it if it's wrong. *shrugs*
Not that it matters. We all now know the 7000 doesn't support COH and he's committed to getting another card assuming he can find one.
I just found the list of supported cards on the support site and I've forwarded it to my friend.
I forgot how much DirectX made my head hurt. Yes, I know this doesn't matter, and yes I know I'm being a bit of a pedantic idiot harping on this, but I sort of can't let this go as a matter of documentation for anybody searching the forums for Can I Use a Radeon 7000 or 7500 to Play CoH.
The case in point here is exemplified by both the GeforceFX and Intel Integrated Graphis chips.
The GeforceFX was announced and marketed as a DirectX 9 graphics card, much like the Radeon 9700 / 9500 cards from ATi. However, game developers quickly found that if they used the stock rendering path from DirectX (and from OpenGL for that matter, although at a later date because OpenGL 2.0 only arrived in 2004), the GeforceFX cards were horrendously slow unless they used a special mixed path or vendor specific OpenGL instructions from Nvidia.
The fact was, the GeforceFX cards was actually a DirectX 8 hardware card that had been designed to compete with the presumed successor to the Radeon 8500. ATi's completely mind-blowing and unexpected Radeon 9700 took Nvidia by surprise and they had tried to bolt a DirectX 9 accelerator onto a chip that wasn't designed for full Shader precision. The biggest developer to raise a fuss over this was Valve : http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/13/4
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Intel is a different story. They don't typically try to bolt additional hardware or additional logic onto their graphics chips. Rather, if you actually look into the specs behind the Intel Chips, you'll find that while Intel advertises DirectX 9 and DirectX 10 support with pixel and vertex shaders, their graphics chips actually don't have shaders like you'd find in an Nvidia or ATi card. Rather, the Intel chips largely rely on the main processor for some features, like transform and lighting.
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The point here is a difference between Hardware and Software support.
Hardware support is when all of the features of an API are accelerated in one chip and does not require the use of a co-processor or additional external programming logic.
Software support is when the features of API can only be partially run on a single chip, and require an external co-processor, or must use the system's main processor in order to complete the functions.
Yes, the original Radeon cards and the clock bumped Radeon 7000 and 7500 series could run a subsection of the graphics API as specified in DirectX 8. However, they could only run a Sub-Section of the API. If you actually made a game that utilized all of the features that could be accelerated in hardware on a DirectX 8 or DirectX 8.1 video card, yes, you could run it on a Radeon 7000... but... many functions would have to be run in software on your central processor.
Which is why ATi can, and did, promote the original Radeon card as supporting DirectX 8. It did. It just didn't support the DirectX 8 Graphics API in it's physical hardware. -
Well, the first thing I noticed was that your display driver is listed as : Driver Version: 8.14.0010.0697 (English)
The current AMD driver should report as 8.14.00.10.0700 in DirectX diag. So, first thing I'd do is update your graphics drivers.
Otherwise, this sounds like a typical Windows memory leak. -
Quote:This line actually says it all. There is a discrepancy here that a lot of people overlook. The developers interaction with the player-base is largely limited. The forums, for example, are largely populated by a small percentage of the entire player-base. If CoH is doing better than other MMO's, maybe, maybe, 10% of the player pop visits the forums on a regular basis, and maybe, maybe, only 7-8% actually posts. That's the best-case-precedent scenario ratios. If Coh is in line with most other MMO's, maybe only 5% of the paying population actually logs into the forums, and the forum-activity is driven by 2-3% of the player population.I wholeheartedly agree with the OP's request for non-unique naming. I, too, am disappointed with the crowd's reaction. However, I hope the devs realize that the people who go to Hero-Con are not exactly a cross-section of the player population.
In the same way, the people who actually visit Hero-Con, are not the average player.
However, there is a difference. One of the reasons why Hero-Con is so important is that the type of player who visits Hero-Con is the type of player who keeps paying to play. It's called Customer Loyalty. The type of person who visits Hero-Con is more likely to be more accepting in changes to the base-gameplay, and are more likely to have better ideas about how the gameplay should evolve.
The forums aren't really a good place for such discussions for one single reason. It's very easy for a single person with no actual time played to advance their cause or make brain-dead requests based on 2 minutes of thinking rather than weighing the pros and cons of the request against the design of the game and the intent of the game.
Hero-Con makes players put their money where their mouth is. The Forums. Don't.
Now, there is the valid argument that Hero-Con's West Coast only approach does unfairly cut-off players from the mid-west, mid-east, and eastern coastline sections of the US, and offers a uniformly high barrier to players in the UK, Europe, Korea, Australia, and New Zeland (New Zeland does have gamers? right?). One of the things I'd like to see as a promotional for Going Rogue is a quick World Tour with somebody like SuperChick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqW8uD6WuLI - Hero), Pillar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgvXRgszvI4 - Original Superman), or Thousand Foot Krutch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueOCAqCWgtw - Break the Silence). Something like Nintendo's Fusion tour, giving a couple of devs some face time with actual players, but also having something else for those who don't "care" about the game to come and see.
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Quote:For me, nothing breaks immersion more than not being able to name your character what you desire. Imagine playing an RPG with a DM who will only let you keep your name if you rolled a 20 on a d20 roll. How long would you stay with that GM? Sticking with an archaic software limitation seems just as arbitrary, even if the limitation served a purpose at one point. -
Quote:The price has already been set. Pay for a subscription and get the reward when the subscribed time has been achieved. That is the reasonable price.
Either way, it's not specifically about me, though I did use myself as an example. My main question, I guess, boils down to "At what price would it be reasonable for people to buy Veteran Rewards that they had missed due to their accounts being closed?"
If you canceled your account, left, or whatever, TOUGH. GET OVER IT.
Sometimes NO means just that. NO. -
Because the powers represent darkness. Dark Melee is the name of the powerset because it describes what the powerset and where the source or effects of the powers come from.
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Disagree : new names are not hard to come by.
The only name I've ever run into that was already taken was NekoStar.
The other salient points have pretty much already been covered. From looking at the various release names nao threads going on, they mostly seem to be generated by Freedom / Virtue players with no imagination, or no concept of originality. Try being, I dunno, original with a name than using the first thing that comes to mind. -
Quote:Mostly to be funny. In the same sense that somebody has to convince both Bruce Wayne and Batman, or both Clark Kent and Superman. I know, horrible joke.
Psssst... That's the same person. Or did you know that and say it to be funny?
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Quote:Only if they add OS trolling to the ban for a week list. -
Luminara's response was better than the one I had in mind.
No. -
Quote:bingo.But.... door sitters aren't needed anymore since you can artificially alter your team size now.
Ohhhhhh... it makes so much SENSE now! No wonder why people "can't find teams" anymore! Those door sitters aren't NEEDED anymore! That makes insanely good sense.
I'm willing to bet that the majority of the thread starters making these lets merge servers are used to getting on a team and sitting at the door doing nothing. Now that they actually have to play the game... they aren't interested. -
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Quote:I stand clarified.That is only true for patron powers, not ancillary powers.
The issue with epic archetypes is the powers come from the same fictional source, function in the same ways, and presumably should look the same. This is somewhat true of patron powers as well, where the powers are boons granted by a particular patron and aren't really a power of the player character. We haven't made any firm decisions to do or not do customization for Epic Archetypes or patron powers. Ancillary powers is perfectly reasonable, but we wouldn't be able to do those without doing patron powers at the same time...even though we hate villains.
All of them would happen after Pool power customization, and that isn't likely to happen anytime before Going Rogue gets wrapped up (requires tech and UI work). -
Quote:Sometimes I wonder if there's like a group of players that draw straws to see who gets to go make the server-merger thread this week.Gee, is it that time already? time for some whiner to post that it's time for a server merge with no facts to back up the idiocy spewing from his brain?
I wonder if we could talk Mod08 and Ocho into banning everybody who starts a merge thread from the forums and game for a week. -
Quote:there's a good reason why there's no answer. The devs haven't given one.I searched and searched for this answer but didn't find it. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't already covered though.
Will VEAT's and or HEAT's ever be able to customized their power colors? Maybe it's just a bug that they can't now?
Thanks,
Neptus
The basic problem is that with the Epic Archtypes... the powers are not yours. Your are borrowing somebody else's power-set and abilities. Because of this it is possible that Epic Archtypes may not get color customizations. -
In several I want to make a Going Rogue capable machine this Christmas threads I've stated that if you are buying now, buy RadeonHD 5x00 series. Doesn't matter which one, they all are stellar. However, actually finding one of the high end 5850 or 5870 cards in the retail market is a bit like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
Given the number of people wanting one of the cards, HardOCP asked AMD just what the availability was: http://hardocp.com/article/2009/11/1...refor_art_thou
Well, there is good news / bad news. The good news is, TSMC is cranking out new chips on a daily basis, and that Add-in-board partners are air-freighting cards out as soon as they get manufactured. The bad news is that TSMC seems to be running at full capacity on their 40nm process... and it's just not enough. TSMC has some new 40nm machines in shop, but apparently there still are some issues to be worked out.
The other good news is that 57xx cards are also entering the channel... but there is a bit of a issue here.
While the 5750 is a good match for the older RadeonHD 4850, the card that according to Ghost Falcon is the baseline for Going Rogue, the 5770 doesn't exactly have a better price / performance ratio compared to the RadeonHD 4870...
And while a 5770 wil set you back around $170, a good 4870 can be had for around $150. If you do some careful shopping you'll also find a 4890 within the $170 price-point as well.
Unless you desperately need / want DirectX 11 / OpenGL 3.2 support in your graphics card, which won't be needed for Going Rogue, and your are buying right now, if your between the $150-$200 mark purchase mark, it might be better to look at the current RadeonHD 4x00 series.
If you decide to wait until Going Rouge actually launches, or until the Ultra-Mode hits, if it arrives separately from the expansion, it might be better to save up and grab one of the 58xx cards when stocks improve. -
Quote:hehe.I'll preface this by saying that I do actually like Dell computers, as long as people aren't buying the cheapest POS system that is currently on sale on the Dell site. A well researched and customized Dell system will generally last for a good amount of time. I can still play CoH on my Inspiron 8200 laptop purchased in late 2002, although I do have to lower the graphics settings quite a bit to keep it fairly smooth.
That being said, I don't see anything that jumps out as being a problem specifically. I don't know if the 4670 will handle ALL of the Ultra Mode goodies topped out, but it should handle most of them. I was told at HeroCon that my ATI HD 4850 1GB card should handle all but one of the settings maxxed out, and that I'd likely never visually notice that I couldn't get all of that one other setting. Not knowing all of the differences between my PCI-e 4850 and your Mobile 4670 card, I'd think it "should" handle most of Ultra Mode.
If it were me, the things I'd look at customizing on the system (keeping price in mind as well) would be top out the Graphics card (if this isn't the top), increase the CPU if possible, maximize the memory (depending on price). Often, it's cheaper past a certain point to buy the memory elsewhere and put it in yourself but if it's a reasonable price differential I'll go ahead and bump it up until the cost differential is higher than I'm willing to pay.
BIG DIFFERENCE between the 46xx cards and the 48xx cards.
If the 4850 is the baseline for Ultra-Mode, the 46xx isn't going to be able to handle it at all. The 46xx series is a low-end graphics card. I had a couple of RadeonHD 4650's that I mentioned in another thread. In DirectX 9 titles on WindowsXP the 4650 only managed about 90% of the rendering power of the Radeon x1900 or the Geforce 7900 GT KO. In Crossfire mode, due to the lack of a hardware bridge, they weren't exactly performance competitor.
Under Vista on DX10, it didn't do much better. I can't find the numbers I had typed down, but compared to the HD 3870 on Vista, it wasn't even reaching half the speed. The 4650 struggled to maintain a 1440*900 playable resolution across titles like Unreal Tournament 3.
While the 4670 is a bit faster, it's got a higher clock speed and I think a Higher memory speed...
It's still way, way, way slower than the 4850. -
I'm fairly convinced that those who honestly believe the idea that there's no QA going on don't actually understand game design.
And that additionally, they deliberately ignore people who explain basic game design.
As a tech support person I can generally fix problems when people genuinely don't know the subject material by explaining the problem and the solution to them. To quote Don Wood, Stupid is forever, ignorance can be fixed.
To use myself as an example, I cannot fix problems where the person deliberately rejects the explanation or simply refuses to accept explanation given. Case in point? I had a client who kept getting a virus infested computer, and on an average of 2 weeks after a full re-install of the operating system, it was full of junk again. The client kept visiting certain... Dutch... sites using Internet Explorer, and even directly telling this client that it was his choice of sites that kept filling up his computer with virus's... he never got it. As soon as Windows was reinstalled, he promptly went right back to the sites, and promptly got a virus filled computer.
Now? What does this little story have to do with this game? Or with this thread? Well, it's the same principle. We've explained to a great extent that game development is complex. Other previous threads have gone into explaining the changes between the developers incremental builds and the development branches of code.
Yet, we still see people who are hung up on the idea that there is no QA, that all Code development is separated that that no scripts or underlying code are linked to each other in any way shape or form, and that there's only one branch of code development that everybody is working on at the same time.
Now, I can't explain this refusal to accept basic facts of game design and how MMO's work. I really can't.
I can however laugh, because the option is crying. -
The server merge idea comes up quite often... and since I haven't seen anybody post this in...
From Memphis Bill
Quote:Why server consolidation is not a good idea.
Welcome to the forum. You have posted one of the oft repeated suggestions, "Consolidate the servers."
Disclaimer
Yes. This is a cut and paste reply that I keep handy, as well as a quick bit of instruction on how to search. Neither are meant to cause fights or to be insulting. The search instructions are in, not just because forum rules say flat out to search, but to help you and anyone else reading this use the search tool effectively.
The body of the cut and paste reply is the way it is because we've seen these arguments numerous times before. They're a summary of the salient points that come up each time. They are not here to insult you, make you feel stupid or otherwise "bring you down a peg." Instead, they are meant as instruction and information. Please read through the points and the explanation behind them to see the issues that are commonly brought up in response. They may not always match your suggestion 100% - in fact, you may have explained around one or two of them - but they're there for consideration and refinement of your idea.
Yes, I do look forward to the time, with some of these suggestions, that someone not only addresses all the points, but does so exceptionally well. It'll probably be added to the end of the cut/paste reply, with credit. For now, though, read and consider the points. They really are just there to help you, and move discussion along to help ideas evolve.
If you're going to see this and say an "evil forum vet is just shooting down your idea," or "You think you're the last word because of your post count," you're wrong. Heck, if you say the second, you've just worried more about my post count than I have in the last four plus years. Tongue-in-cheek comments in here are meant as hummor, not put downs.
TL,DR section.
First, my stock answer, one which I stand by and repeat with all due fervor. HELL NO.
Searching effectively
1. Click on "Search" up at the top of the forum.
2. On the left, under "Forum(s) to search," select "Suggestions and ideas."
3. On the right, Keyword Search Terms. This is probably where your problem was if you did search. Try the following, exactly as typed:
+server -pvp -"re: "
This will search for anything with "Server" in the title, including Servers, Combine Servers, Consolidate Servers, and The Server At Mcdonalds Is Rude. it will eliminate "PVP," so you won't see PVP server requests, and the -re: portion of it removes replies, so you'll see the root of every thread that comes up, letting you see just how many threads there are on this. (The last helps for other subjects, as well.)
4. Click the "In subject" radio button. This is a search, not a cute blonde in a bikini. Here, you want to ignore the body.
5. Leave Username Search blank.
6. Date range, Newer Than, change the 1 to a 3, and the time to Months.
7. Result format doesn't matter. Click on "Submit."
As I try this now, (12/3/08,) we have:
Consolidate Server
Server Stats RSS Feed
$server modifier ofr chat
Fix the forum server
Earlyissue server
Merging low population server
Combine slow server
Server status
Global chat on the Character and Server Screens
Rated M server
Add Ponies, Nerf Vills, merge Servers, PistolMelee
Server Visiting
Display Central Time on Server Status Page
Ignoring the smartalec reply, that's three full discussions about this topic.
You should have read one of them if (inevitably) something similar comes up in your search.
Now, on to the topic at hand....
Why server consolidation is not a good idea.
1. Just because YOU like living in New York City doesn't mean I can't like Kansas.
Yay, you love having huge lag spikes as you get near the black market/wentworths and a busy broadcast. Congrats. Enjoy Freedom. Some of us - many of which you will get replies from with this subject - like *low population* servers. If we *wanted* to be on Freedom, we'd *be* on Freedom.
I have characters on Freedom. I rarely play them (and actually moved a character OFF of Freedom to finish leveling it to 50) because *I DON'T LIKE FREEDOM.* I dislike the banality of broadcast, the high percentage of *horrid* teams I've come across there, the lag around any gathering point- and I've got a decent connection and system. For much the same reason, I typically startin Galaxy City instead of Atlas Park - I don't *want* to log in to a costume contest with several 50s spamming powers and nonsense arguments in broadcast.
Some of us *like* nice, quiet servers.
2, Kansas, part 2.
In addition, servers have their own personalities. No, I don't mean that literally, there's no AI to worry about if you start hearing "Daisy, Daisy" over your speakers or headset. Freedom's a crowded mess. Virtue is the RP server. Pinnacle is the "Drunk" server. Others have specific communities, such as those from Australia/NZ, Europe, etc.
3. "I only saw one other person. World of Conancraft has eleventy billion!"
So what?
We don't run around camping spawn points in this game. People are in missions. People are spread across many zones. Search on a map or do a /whoall and you'll miss those in missions, as well as those who are, for whatever reason, on /hide. Your "search" there didn't give you a full picture, not in the least.
I understand the "feel" of things being "not very populated," but take a good look around when you're in game. Typically, you don't really have a lot of visibility. Standing in steel canyon, there could be multiple, full 8 person groups surrounding you, and it's likely you'd never see them. We have buildings, walls, architecture, trees and more limiting our visibility. Yes, it can make you feel more alone... but that's rarely the case. Add to that that the population is spread between many, MANY zones, most quite large, and among two sides... well...
4. "I put up my LFT flag and nothing happened!"
Learn to search. Don't just wait. Form a team yourself.
5. "I AM SPARTACUS!" No, not any more.
Remember logging in and seeing all those slots? Everyone has those - some buy more than the base 12, you get an extra one each year, you could have a total of 36 on any server. Everyone does. Every one has a character with a unique name. Maybe not a *good* name, but a unique one. Every one has a character with a unique name. Maybe not a *good* name, but a unique one.
Now merge servers. Suddenly, CoolBlasterDude from server 1 is getting merged with CoolBlasterDude from Server 2. Who gets to keep their name? Nobody has been able to answer this with any degree of satisfaction. Add a number? But I am NOT CoolBlasterGuy1. And what if the name's too long? Does the older character keep it? What if they're not as active?
People are *VERY* attached to their names. They are, quite obviously, part of their character.
6. "This Is SPARTA!" Sorry, Sparta exists already. You are GenericSG 8734 287 9798.
What else has a name? Supergroups. And I can *guarandamntee* that the same name is in use on multiple servers. Sometimes it's 'branches' of the same SG, sometimes it's coincidence. But with *everything* involved in an SG - from its identity and reputation on the server, to everything stored in the database about what it owns, what its base is like and such, this would be a disaster in the making. And no, auto merging them when the servers merge, even if they have room to, is not an option.
This, of course, assumes that they *CAN* move supergroups as a unit. More than likely, it'd just be a mass character move, with bases, prestige, anything stored in bases and all SG affiliations just gone forever.
7. "I am... where'd Spartacus go?"
Remember all those slots? Well, you start with 1/3 of the available ones. You can buy up to 36 total (24 on top of the ones you get initially.) Now, what do you suppose would happen if you merged two servers, and someone has, say, 20 characters on each? Not unusual. In fact, before those extra slots, I had *filled up* several servers. Do those characters just disappear? Do they move? Free move to another server sounds great, right... well, except you now kick them from their supergroup, remove them from their friends lists and more. This makes for angry and unhappy customers. Or rather, ex customers.
8. I will play where I damn well want to. And you can too.
And that should be blunt enough. If I want a crowded server, I'll go to Freedom. If I want an RP server, I'll go to Virtue. I do NOT want to be shoved onto another server I *don't* like. If I wanted to go there, *I'd be there.*
If the server you're on isn't "busy" enough for you, you have two options that won't bother anyone else.
(A) If it's low enough, reroll. You have a ton of character slots for a reason.
(B) If you don't want to reroll, server transfers are available, and relatively cheap. They also finish fast - you should be up and running and being spammed to join someone's SG on the new server in a few minutes, in most instances. So YOU can go to the server of YOUR choice without screwing ME over.
9. "It'll free up server hardware for Freedom!" No, no it won't.
Freedom, because of the load it tends to have, already has more resources dedicated to it than other servers. And ALL of the servers have been upgraded multiple times. The servers are not allocated exactly the same. The servers that handle less of a load have less dedicated to them. So this argument doesn't fly.
10. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
Last but not least (at least until better points come along to be added,) server consolidation is widely viewed in the industry as an MMO going on life support. No, we don't have WoWs numbers (and you should actually pay attention to when and how they got those.) They're an abberation in the MMO industry. COH has had and does have a very successful, sustainable population even at its lowest points, so there's no economic need to combine anything. The flip side of that, of course, has been suggested above - you crowd people together, break up their SGs and friends lists, cause characters to go missing and poeple definitely *will* quit, both out of annoyance and a sense of "The game is almost dead!"
In conclusion....
As stated before, when it comes to server consolidation... HELL NO. -
don't worry. It's not that the devs don't like you.
I think the word loathe was used. -
Borderlands.
It's like somebody at Gearbox was playing Phantasy Star Online, and thought: This would be great as a first person shooter -
Quote:I haven't logged into check this... but it's something I like'd to see.I made the Vanguard Katana available to Broadsword and Dual blades, the Broadsword available for Dual Blades, and the Blades available for Broadsword.
Now that I think about it, that would only work in the MA.... I forgot about there being powerset restrictions on players being able to unlock those custom weapons with Vanguard merits.
Look for that to be working with player characters Soon(tm).
I've got a katana / sr stalker, and when I unlocked the Rularuu Blade I got this /massive/ sword almost bigger than my avatar. I love it, it just looks so right swinging this massive blade around.
I've also got a DB / WP scrapper, and I've been working on the rularuu badge unlock for the blades... but evertime I see somebody who has Rularuu blades on a Dual Blades, they always look really small, like they're about half the size of the katana version.
Is there a difference in rularuu blade sizes?
And if there is, can the large katana blade be added to the dual blades set?