hepheastus

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Everyone knows you have to use Blazing Aura on him. That'll make him think twice about...
uh...
well it won't stop him from hitting you... and I'm not sure he's even thought in the first place...

... um, "you're obviously a crappy player if you can't figure it out"? yeah that must be it. Its not that combustion and BA are useless, its that we don't know how to use them. Proper herding techniques would let us make use of our extreme defenses to...
..

waaait a second here...

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FTD or flowers.com?

Bingo..... A +2 tank swiper has you in his sites... you got no room to run and your blasts ain't gonna stop him... You reach into your bag of tricks and whip out your ultimate lv 38 secondary power....

Hot feet.

someone send flowers.

bah.

that matters. statesman has range on the brain. he thinks it MEAN'S
something....

it dosent.

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CuppaJo said:
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The "roles" question is best addressed by Statesman - AFAIK scrappers dmg > Tanks. Tanks def/res > Scraps. Blasters = dmg via range. These are gross generalities.

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I started by PM'ing Statesman and his response was less than optimal. I know he's a busy guy, wife, job, company, comicbooks, the list goes on and on... I just wanted clairification. I know severl of my Tanker and Blaster friends do too.

Statesman said:
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Scrapper - takes out the boss while the Tanker holds him down...

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While I love ya Jack (in that paltonic, you're very cool kinda way) this just didn't answer my question. I don't know any scrapper over 12 that needs a Tanker to help him/her with a boss. Over 22-ish 2-3 bosses can be handels via kiting (sometimes without). And, Blaster + Tanker will always take bosses down far faster than Scrappers.

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This is actually a very sad way to balance. It reeks of EQ if he responds with that. When I form teams I see heros not ATs. Id like to think that I can grab whoever is available to play and just do a mission or TF. My SG is typically a late nite crew.

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Not very heroic either is it? beating up on someone while a big guy holds him down.

That's not heroic... that's thuggery.

Tanker: Powerful, plodding powerhouse. The first line of defense for a team. Not a front line fighter..... The tanker IS THE FRONT LINE.

Scrapper: Prescise, lethal, fast. Incarnate warrior who can take down or disable foes with dispatch. Master of the decappatack.

Controller: Master of his environment. Specializes in confusion, misdirection and strategic control over large areas.

Defender: Force multipier and enabler posessing a fair amount of ranged support. The tanker may protect, the controller may control but the defender puts things back together when they go wrong.

Blaster: Overwhelming Ranged force. Irresistable and vulnerable at once. Master of mass destruction, lacking the prescision and combat prowess of the scrapper while maintaining a more versatile arsenal of attacks.

That's the way things SHOULD be.

Not you hold him down while I give him a wedgie.

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I guess what they don't understand is that movement is our defense. If we don't move we die. Ignoring how much we move to attack because this varies by build as do scrappers, we move more just because of defense. Either retreating from an enemy and dragging him back to the tank or trying to move around the tank to make sure that anything you agro goes through the tanks aura. Of course if the tank is moving then so is the blaster. The scenarios go on and on about why blasters move more. At first brush it seems like blasters wouldn't have to move more but if you ever watch them you will find that they never seem to stop moving except to fire attacks.

There are scenarios where a blaster does not have to move much. Playing with a D3 in the early levels means that mobs won't be moving much due to fear and tentacles. This doesn't apply to some of the later levels but it works against early mobs. While the blaster is not moving much beyond positioning for AoEs the scrapper is not moving much either. If the mobs arn't moving for a scrapper they arn't moving for a blaster and nither AT is really moving much. Even in that scenario the blaster if he was trying to maximize damage would still move more.

To maximize damage a blaster must get in melee. Of course he can't stay in melee which means he will be darting back and forth attacking, retreating, attacking. If he has any Cones he will be darting backwards then going forwards to melee then darting back again.

I don't what it will take to cinvince someone who has not played a blaster to the upperlevels that blasters move more than scrappers but I think I have layed out the arguements pretty well.

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Nah man they're just be stubborn to prove a point. a point that dosen't bear a whole lot of thought. and to top it off they're arguing with people who've been there when they have no point of refrence besides "speculation". The only way these people can envision blasters in combat is

A.) spamming AoE's while tankers maintain complete control (rare)

b.) Spamming AoE's while controllers maintain complete control

(rarer still)

c. Hovering and laying down massve destruction from on high while the mobs somehow ignore them.

(Very [censored] rare)

The truth? Mobs peel off tankers, high level mobs can't be held forever, blasters draw a lot of aggro, blaster have to avoid damage to the utmost of their ability in any situation. Many times when the melee types are scrapper-locked into opponents they don't see the blaster hopping about like a [censored] mad man in the back.

it's harder than any scrapper's bud.

it's not me who's lost his sense of balance it's you. and you're the one who inserted the bit about +4's at 30. I know blasters aren't supposed do that. they don't have the DEFENSE for it. you know that defense that says I don't have to be all that mobile in combat?

who has to move more. the guy who can't survive melee or the guy that can? It really is that simple. we can have this argument forever... but I've played a scrapper to 45 and a blaster to 50. you need to try this on someone else.

if you don't know enough to manage your endurance you deserve a face plant.

Me I slotted for endurance reduction, and I have conserve power, and unstoppable. my toggles don't drop. For that matter by the time I got dragon's tail I had a pretty good handle on endurance use. one of the cool things about being a scrapper is being able to stand there in harms way while your endurance regenerates.

a blaster who misses is in danger no matter how much endurance he has. In fact the blaster is just plain in danger. if what he hit dosen't die likkitey split he just might be in trouble.

Do you think I'M MAKING THIS STUFF UP? Do you seriously think blasters just stand around tossing out massive AoE's?

Yeah. At least scrappers have defenses worth taking TO DROP if they run out of endurance. Your comment about fighting +4's in your thirties. I couldn't fight +4's in my 30's as a blaster. hell I can barely do it now at 50... and that's only with lucks and a maxed out inferno. If it's a +4 boss.... yeah right.

whatever. a few missed mobs to a scrapper don't spell death.

nuff said.

I didn't say I ONLY used him for solo purposes. read the post. and I never said I NEVER team with him. There's been PLENTY of times when I've herded for blasters.... and stood there killing while blasters help mow mobs down...

And I STILL don't agree with your assertion that scrappers have to move more. sorry.

there's that "good team" caveat again. and let me guess... it involves a tanker with mobs glued all over him.

I keep saying... An AT that can't even function unless mobs are autistic and can only concentrate on the tanker... or there's a full time controller locking everything down that moves.... is gimped.

Why? the tanker can function without the blaster. the controller can function without the blaster. Every AT can benefit from the powers of the others but they can also stand alone in almost any situation. kinda [censored] up if you ask me. Get right down to it blasters are the most replaceable AT in the game. For the most part all they provide is damage. Everyone deals damage. Blasters deal solid damage.... but when balanced against their fragility and lack of utility blasters need OBSCENE damage.

never said It didn't.

Still dosen't mean you can just stand there using them without moving. wether you're moving to engage or moving to avoid retribution for all those great AoE's you're moving. or you're meat.

Ahhhh there's the rub.

I barely play my scrapper teamed. I use him for solo purposes and helping sgmates deal with archvillans. He's the "I don't want to be bothered with a team toon" The other 3 characters that I actively play are geared towards teaming. but they're not scrappers. 2 defenders and a fire/ss tank.

wrong. just shows that I don't buy into the scrappers have to move more bit. My scrap barely moves in combat at all...... Mostly when crane kick knocked something back a bit. and "positioning" means jack. combat jump into the middle of the pack and lay waste, wash rinse repeat. You're a fire blaster... You should know how tricky it is lining up for your opening salvo. If your personal experience leaves you to believe otherwise then so be it. but don't go trying to define my reality for me.

I'm not evading jack.

I Just think you guys are nuts. know what my scrapper does in combat? wraps mobs around him like a security blanket and stands in one place going toe to toe with anything dumb enough to step up and get beat down.

My blaster is flitting about like he's on crack..... 2 attacks... fireball and fire breath... then it's time to make like someone put jumping beans in my pants to deal with the survivors. I'm I'm standing still it's on a bonfire patch that I layed before starting the attack. My scrapper isn't repositioning. he's standing there while I dole out pain. If he's jumping it's because something flew away. and what flew away had better be a sapper because otherwise it's not important enough to go after.

there's no comparison RR. Dragon's tail, why? it's being used by a hero who can deal it with damn little risk son.

And you might want to ask some other scrapper. Mine has invincibility. I can get a whole rooms attention and deal out my one pbaoe with impunity.

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blasters don't have to reposition themselves?

you're smoking the good [censored].

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He's not arguing that as an absolute. Rather, he's saying that Blasters don't have to meticulously position himself because of a small range (PBAoE compared to the larger AoE of a Blaster target AoE attack, 5ft cone range compared to 40ft cone range)

He is also saying Blasters don't have to move around as much to acquire, and fire on, new targets. Read again this part:

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When fighting a large group, the blaster can continuously pump out ranged attacks without spending much time positioning himself. This (plus their noteable disposition towards AoEs) suggests that blasters are better suited at doing damage to multiple minions. Overall the blaster is throwing more raw damage downrange than the scrapper, usually multiplied over groups of targets.

When fighting a single target, a scrapper excels over a blaster as the scrapper must spend an initial period closing with the target, then may hope to remain there. Switching targets and repositioning for melee reach slows the scrapper's attacks down, decreasing DPS

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Thank you, Rooftop. While my [censored] is indeed good, that's exactly what I'm saying.

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and as someone who relies on a cone pbaoe combo I disagree.

besides. scrappers move to engage. blasters move to save their damned lives. At worst the scrapper has to chase his foe. with the blaster enviromental control and awareness are paramount. one mistake and you're pushing up more flowers than an FTD gift shop.

blasters don't have to reposition themselves?

you're smoking the good [censored].

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I still maintain that, say, %80 of the aggrivation with Blasters could be dealt with by the following two changes:

1) Ranged attacks in the primary power sets no longer root while activating. Don't even need to change the actual activation times, simply make it so you can continue to dodge/run while firing. This can't be impossible to implement, as you can already do so with a proper leap-joust. And even Ice, with its fast animations, needs to hold still for the second they take to fire. With this, you'd actually be able to keep enemies at range, and thus have range be a viable defense.
2) Scale Blaster damage upwards as they level so that net effectiveness remains the same. Post SOs, Blasters actually decrease in effectiveness, as mob HP and resistances continue to rise, while there's no further way to self-improve damage. This leads to being able to obliterate yellows with a snipe at 22, but only being able to one-shot whites with a snipe at 50. Since offense=defense for blasters (more or less), this steady decrease in objective effectiveness is a big harm.

Boom. These two changes alone don't seem that hard to implement, but they'd go a long way to improving the 'feel' of the AT without (presumably) requiring drastic code rewrites.

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1. You can already do this, take the Speed Pool Power "Whirlwind" and run it before any other animation changing toggles(fly/hover) and you will no longer root when attacking. You will also knock up enemies who close to melee.

Be careful on the endo cost though

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lol

man that's no freaking answer. I've done that. waste of endurance.

If you have superspeed or combat jumping you can just jump kite and let inertia take you as you blast. not optimal but it beats the hell out of whirlwind. Of course I could just use burn and whirlwind at the same time and let the mobs laugh themselves to death.

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they're full of breakfrees because the damned things last 30 seconds. something you said you didn't mind. In fact I said you wouldn't have room for other inspirations because of them and you pshawed me. said you had gifts left over from christmas.

Which is it man?

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My point was that just giving us back disciplines is thinking too small. We don't need to fill our trays with even one row of insps just to survive, we need mez protection in our powersets, because we are a damage AT that generates hate, and the level 35+ game is nothing but mezzing attacks.

I'm not disagreeing the proposed change to mezzing insps is bad, i'm disagreeing that it's a big deal. It's not. What IS a big deal is that we absolutely need them to survive.

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dude the problem with that is the developers don't know WHAT the hell we're supposed to be. of COURSE where a combat AT. but the developers treat us like support. When the only thing we offer to a team for the most part is mobs getting dead faster. If anything it's WE who need support.

Right now where not ranged combatants... were practice dummies.

Sometimes I think the developers are waitng for us to get the hint so that they can just let the class die out.

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It's not my opinion that the immobilize is nearly 100%, that's what alot of testing showed. I kept mobs locked in place for a long time with it just letting them try to hit me, follow me, etc.

Regarding Heph, you're going to have to build a better case against him than that. He's argued for modest defense and in particular in the Blaster Update thread he's argued against status protection. He went to great lengths to argue against scrapper-level durabilty.

Now, I generally disagree with Heph on alot if things, but you're out of your mind if you think he wants a) Godmode or b) scrapper-level defenses.

I defy you to find a quote from him saying he wants just that.

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Forget it RR. ILR came to these threads with an agenda. That's why he's on my ignore list. ILR is a nutjob anyhow. I ask for a ranged mass slow on the order of caltrops for the fire secondary and he asks like I just asked for instant healing and unyelding with unlimited endurance.

Laff...it's sad really. I think blasters need some tweaks. and Minor survival tools in their secondary. some thought put into them. I never once asked to be god. He's just doing what he does best. flapping his gums... and since the only thing he has coming out of them is garbage I have to invoke the idiot screen.

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I imagine the scrappers who cant are either dark or invuln, and relying on their decreased resistance caps? or is 75% enough to take on reds and make sandwiches? I don't know, maybe not. But then dark gets cloak of fear for added defense, and invuln gets invincibility for added defense... so.... I don't know if its true that not all scrappers can do this.

let us not forget: everyone loves sandwiches.

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On my Dark/Inv Scrapper I most assuredly can not walk away and make a sandwhich and expect to come back to anything other than a defeated character. Not saying that I don't expect to win normally but that will require interaction on my part.

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My invul build is further along. I can go make a sandwich.

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My point was that ranged damage is USUALLY nothing. However, 35+ ranged damage also comes with a nice mez package attached, and that's what really messes us up. Ranged damage is bad enough, but we could get by if we were able to use respites and lucks and what have you. But we're not, because trays are full of break frees.

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they're full of breakfrees because the damned things last 30 seconds. something you said you didn't mind. In fact I said you wouldn't have room for other inspirations because of them and you pshawed me. said you had gifts left over from christmas.

Which is it man?

speak for yourself.

I am very much worried about ranged damage if Statesman thinks that I'm safer at range than a scrapper is in melee.

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Only two of the snipes open to Defenders have longer range, and one of those is in a set that is not heavily played due to substandard activation times.

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What is your point Erratic? Are you saying that the sets don't have a longer snipe range in them? Or are you saying don't generalize and say that only two sets in the defender line have snipes longer than blasters?

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My point Concern is that of all the things that are woes for Blasters, whining about not having 25 more range on a Snipe is not really a good thing to focus on, especially when the claim made--that Defenders have longer range on their snipes as if every Defender does--isn't true.

Would 25 more range on snipes (which not all Blasters get) suddenly make Blaster's woes go away? No? Didn't think so.

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of course not. you could still get return alpha striked even at that range.