hepheastus

There you hit on it perfectly fei.....

Your secondary is something you NEED to survive.

Our secondaries don't help us survive in the same sense. they help us survive by doing more damage. So compairing the two is apples and oranges.

Our Primary is our defense. God like damage.

And you almost sound like blasters that want to be effective don't already have to arrange our pools well. Like we can just willy nilly take any pool we want....

Stamina..... a must for ANY build.
Hasten.....allows for faster cycling of attacks. which equates to an even chance to take down bigger enemies..
Concealment......to lower aggro response when pulling enemies from large crowds and to help us avoid death from rounding corners to find dangerous enemies right around them.
Hover... to keep us out of melee range.
Superspeed for the stack invis with concealment... and a quick get away.

Taking leaping, leadership, or fighting would make me loose those benefits so in the end everything would balance out the same damn way. A highly offensive build with low defense and sub par damage mitagation.

We shouldn't have to design our builds around pools. Pools should accentuate our builds.

Karass you're waisting your time.

Erratic thinks that having to scrap a build you worked on for hours over months is a fair and equitible solution. When every other AT get's fixes to round out their AT's.

Dark Defenders didn't have to rebuild. Dark Miasma got buffed.

In fact all Defender blasts got an endurance reduction.

Super Strenght tankers don't have to rebuild super strenght got buffed. All tanker attacks got endurance reductions, and more tanker damage is coming down the pipe. Many tanker primaries are getting lots of attention from the DEVs.....

Super reflexes, Dark Armor, Katanna, Martial arts? all got buffs or have them in the works.

Mind controllers also got buffed. and pets are deadilier than ever.


All of these changes came about because players told the devs that certain things were defective. They kept plugging away. They didn't drop their toons and start over. And I'll be damned if we should have to. If the devs are dead set on nerfing my damage I want the defensive tools to be viable. And I don't want to have to take very defensive pool out there to get it. Pools are not defining powers. They are powers that help us round out game play. I have hover, stealth and hasten. my travel powers are super speed and flight. I'm not dropping either. My defense remains my offense. That is what was intended.

went up against a KoA boss. I had hover, 6 slotted stealth, hasten running.... I popped 8 lucks. guess what?

I still got held... you're right.

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My apologies to the thread, I won't continue to roll in the mud.

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You should apologize for posting at all.

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As an aside to Blaster melee damage, it's also the most damaging melee attacks in the game. Even more than the melee classes. Just a random tidbit of info.

[/ QUOTE ] considering the risk of engaging anything at melee range as a blaster they should be the most damaging.....

to tell the truth they shouldn't even be there.

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Just so that my stance is clear, I do think that blasters need some help, since mobs are now tougher. What I have issues with are the scrapper nerf calls. It's ridiculous to say we have better AOEs and overpowered defenses. Not all scrappers are Inv. It sure doesn't help the blaster cause when a few are outright lying and exagerrating or just clueless. And doesn't anyone have a blaster friend or scrapper? Why the heck are we at each other's throats?

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Nerfing scrappers would be dumb. And unnecessary. I don't see all that many people calling for a nerf to the AT. What I see is non blasters shouting for blaster nerfs. Because "we don't need teams" Post lv 32 controllers don't need teams. see them getting throttled with nerf calls? nope.

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I have no problem soloing post release 2. In fact I think the changes are quite refreshing.... fact is I haven't had to change a single tactic or stratagem. I'm complaining about proposed changes. You just ran in and started flapping your gums. And having played a blaster to level 41 of course I'm more qualified to talk about it 's strenghts and weaknesses.

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No, you're more qualified to speak about your build and presumably you'd be expected to have a larger clue. But there are Ph.D.s that I know who have none, and in a like vein there you are.

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zip it.

you're the one who came here with the "change your tactics" crap... You didn't single out any paticular build..... You generalized... At least I have some knowledge of the blaster late game. Maybe I fly a cessna and not a 747.... butI'd still be a better flyer than some moron who hasn't even seen a cockpit....

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JUST GIVE UP AND REROLL

ERRAT DORK SCHOOL OF TACTICS.


defender board ---->

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thank you and good night ladies and gentlemen, Heph will be here all week.

I'd advise arguing with that one. Anyone who takes the time to lecture others on the defensive possibilities on blasters, while proudly displaying to all in their sig their single blaster build at under lvl 20, should simply follow your sign to the def boards.

Personally, and I posted this thread on the general power discussion, I think the solution to all woes, for every AT, is a powerpool soley for mez fx mitigation. Thats really the trump factor for *every* damage dealer. Mez: it kills scrappers and blasters dead. If there was an adequate mez defense, a lot of folks would be happier and view the coming difficulty changes with less stress.

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You know If they did that.... gave us some status protection so I can actually stay at range.... I wouldn't mind the 3 minion=1 hero equation. Unfortunately the devs seem to think that every group needs a mez spammer. "here comes that refrain.... team up" I've had entire teams stunned, immobiled and slaughtered in portal missions. even after a round of clear mind from an empath. everyon got dropped. except the scrapper.... who was soon overwhelmed then layed out like a lounger.

Man you are a chip eating chimp aren'tcha?

I have no problem soloing post release 2. In fact I think the changes are quite refreshing.... fact is I haven't had to change a single tactic or stratagem. I'm complaining about proposed changes. You just ran in and started flapping your gums. And having played a blaster to level 41 of course I'm more qualified to talk about it 's strenghts and weaknesses. you see me on the defender board mouthing off to them? Did you see me beating up on dark defenders? "Dark Miasma is just fine... you just need to change your tactics." Did you hear me saying tanker damage is fine? you just need to know your roll meatshield? no.... you running in here with that change your tactics crap with your 1337 level 11 blaster experience is an insult.

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since you seem to know how to play a blaster the "right" way.. tell us all the great secret.

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Uh uh, I won't claim to know the right way, I just know that repeating what isn't working and crying about it is not productive and that crying for things to return to what they were isn't likely to work. I suggest focusing more on defense because clearly it works for ATs that don't deliver the same damage as Blasters do (say like that Defender in my sig). If I can go out and solo with her at will, the question that should come to mind for any thinking individual is, "Why?" And when that question is answered, what in that answer can a Blaster then do to make his life easier.

No, Radiation Infection isn't open for Blasters, but other powers that do the same basic thing are. Hmmm. . .perhaps taking them would be a good idea.

Lingering Radiation? Not open to Blasters either (for that matter not open to anything other than a Radiation Emission possessing Defender or Controller), but powers that slow opponents can be found in both Ice Blast and Ice Manipulation.

See the approach?

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Nope. I see someone who hasn't played my build for 41 levels, and has never seen me play telling me to "change tactics".... you know what my secondary effect is...? more damage. guess I should just drop 4 months of gaming and roll an ICE /Elec blaster for the "slow effect"
JUST GIVE UP AND REROLL

ERRAT DORK SCHOOL OF TACTICS.


defender board ---->

Well Put Anachronism.....

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Erratic

Well if blasters are meant to stay out of melee, why do we have so damn many melee range attacks, I can name 10 right off the top of my head.

energy has at least 4
fire has 2, and flame breath is damn close range
AR has buckshot, and flamethrower
etc etc.

I was fighting freakshow tanks last night, had one charging me so i hit slug, he is outta range but coming forward, slug activates and the tank is damn near on top of me now i kite just as he gets to melee, luckily i got away in time with SS.
Now I was lucky, usually they get a swipe and remove 90% of my health.

If blaster are meant to stay out of melee, give us more range with our attacks. Also as far as avoiding said groups well when you do missions like I do, and it say kill 30 freakshows in terra, my mob size choices are limited to groups that are 10 in size.

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The answer to this is very simple. Erratic is an idiot.

Blaze, firebreath, fire sword circle. all close ranged attacks. For that matter so is inferno.... Guess we should just stop using the powers that make up 1/3 of our primary/secondary sets. THAT'S TACTICS DONE THE ERRATDORK WAY......


Know what? at a certain level even defenders start spamming nukes. no one cries foul when my foce field pal strolls up to a group..... sets off darkstar then pops a CaB then Personal force field..... No that's cool. but when blasters alpha strike [censored] NERF THEM.... NERF THEM NOWWWWWWWWWWW.

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WHAT!!!! NO WAY....I have rolled many blaster AT's....fyi....before the update i could roast 10-15 1+ MoBs with just my blaster 6slotted flamethrower...

I got to lvl16 with a fire/dev blaster before i realized i wasnt having fun...again my tastes.....two words......firebreath...fireball....

hooowheee....not tryin to be uncivil...but plz know what ur talkin bout before you try to make me sound like an idiot....and fyi WE ARE SUPER HEROES....could you imagine Superman being killed by 10 thugs on the street?????

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If he did erratdork would be standing there saying "it wasn't the krypronite in their clubs... you need to change your tactics.

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Aren't you supposed to get creamed by 10 even cons all aggroed at once? I think at 26 it works that way for almost every archetype.

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A tanker can go to sleep while 10 +2minions are beating on him....

A scrapper would skewer 10 +2 minions.

A controller with pets can destroy +2 minions with one hold and a swarm of pets.

and no one cares. it's all good. light one thunderous blast under said minions and suddenly everyone has a problem.

Hate to burst your bubble, fei...... but "intelligent slotting?" slotting what? If you mean attacks there is only one optimal scheme. Damage, and lot of it. Yeah spare a slot for accuracy...... but post stamina that's it. You max damage on everything else. And if the attack has an inherent accuracy factor you forgo that too. just pure damage.... You get hasten to wipe out the need for recharger... and replace that with sweet, sweet damage. Why? because as a blaster optimal damage out put is a must. do you see invincible tankers and scrappers slotting for accuracy or endurance post invincitbility and stamina? hell no. Because they know what I know. the more damage the better. Back to defense. A non dev blaster has only a few defensive options open to him... all of them in the form of pool powers. Of which you can only have 4. Fitness is a given... show me a post thirty build without stamina and I'll show you a broken toon. 6 slotting stamina is a huge investment. Next travel.... A MUST. 2 pools down.... if you slot combat jumping or hover that's 6 more slots toasted. If you took super speed then sadly you're going to need verticality. that means 2 travel powers. The best defense for blasters is tough weave.... 3 powers used to get weave and possibly
12 slots gone.

A non dev blaster built for defense would need

jumping
fighting
concealment
leadership

he'd lose 8 powers for that, and possibly 36 slots. so he could reach an awesome 36% defense bonus against even conned minions.... that he won't be able to kill having screwed up his offensive punch.... and endurance trying to run all those toggles and fight.

Personally I'll stick to inspirations.

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IF the purpose was to slow down the Dev blasters from solo they failed miserable. All they did was make it infinitely more boring thus lowering the time their going to get people to stay here in preference to other, now more fun games. With phase shift and trip mines I can take out the same group of even-+1 mobs that I did before...sure takes a bit longer but still taking them out just the same.

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Sneaky *******....

Of course you know what this means?

NERF TIME BOMB , TRIP MINE AND PHASE SHIFT... OMG OMG OMG.....

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no thanks [censored] hole.

Build like what? Ignore offense and self gimp? There are blasters already doing that. combat jumping, fighting, manuevers, 6 slotted smoke grenade... stealth.... cloaking devices...hover. guess what? you're still flat on your [censored] dead. still stunned and one shotted. Change the way you play? there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way I play. How would you know anyways? Ever team with me? hell no.

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I think you need to calm down, there's no reason to be insulting.

The things you're listing are issues that scrappers have delt with for some time. We, if we wish to solo, often need to partake of power pools and heavily slot our defenses at the expense of offense to survive. My Blaster no longer solos better than my scrapper, but my blaster certainly still dishes out a hell of a lot more damage in a group. Seems like the way the the AT's were meant to be.

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theres also no need for eratdick to be "fixing my statements" That is condescending and insulting. And what you don't understand is that a heavily defensive build becomes pointless to a blaster after a certain point. we're not scrappers.... defensively there is no comparison. our defense is offense and staying out of melee range by all means neccesary. we survive by keeping battles short and sweet. not by lowering ourselves to powder poof offense and praying we don't get hit. i play a scrapper.... They have a hard time of it in the early game... but by the late game they are unstoppable juggernauts. some capable of out tanking a tanker. most capable of out damaging a blaster simply by living longer.

Everyone get's tied up into the anti alpha strike mentality that they forget the risk involved in it.

Theres a reason whay the dev's gave us attacks like that....

Because all we are is damage. If the dev's had wanted to they could have given us lowered offense.... and medium defense. but they gave us high damage and low defense for a reason. "OFFENSIVE JUGGERNAUT." Now everyone seems to want us to do minimal damage while retaining our fragility.

That's pure [censored].

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Making the game more difficult won't be the end of blasters. It will just be the end of blasters farming hazard zones with alpha strikes/massive AOEs. You'll have to stick to small groups of minions/lts for advancement like alot of the other ATs need to do.

Look at the way the game is now. It's heavily favors those blasters who can insta-kill large packs of near even-con mobs. With the ability to do so, grouping is not necessary and even discouraged to some extent since xp rewards tend to go down in groups. This game was meant to be done in groups, while having the option to solo. Currently (well, pre-update. I haven't done much testing post-update), most can solo almost anything of value. Obviously, this warrants some change.

The front loaded AOE damage also makes alot of the support classes unimportant. You don't need a tank, controller, or defender if you have blasters who drop everything in a few secs. Sure, they may make it a bit easier, but realistically they aren't needed.

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I don't solo because I can alpha strike. I solo because I like to solo. remove the alpha strike... guess what? I'm still going to solo. If this game ever turns into a morass where I'm at the whim of what other players want to do I will retire my cape. I also like the fact that I can just turn on the game and play without having to wait for an invite. I also don't like falling prey to lousy team play that dosen't take into account my fragility. as for farming hazard zones... I don't think you'll see a lot of that post smoke grenade fix. I'll note that no one complains when they see a grav, fire, or illusion controller soloing in crey's folly.
this is a common site. No one minds that controllers grow to become really powerful. Yet people want blasters to grow up and be gimpy. [censored] that.

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God.... morons like you just don't get it..... If Statesman goes through with his plans we won't be able to solo ANY groups with any resonable reliability so long as we continue to build and act like we did in the past.

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There, fixed that for you.

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no thanks [censored] hole.

Build like what? Ignore offense and self gimp? There are blasters already doing that. combat jumping, fighting, manuevers, 6 slotted smoke grenade... stealth.... cloaking devices...hover. guess what? you're still flat on your [censored] dead. still stunned and one shotted. Change the way you play? there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way I play. How would you know anyways? Ever team with me? hell no.

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stop trying to solo huge mobs above your lvl if you want a game that you can solo go play doom III. /end rant

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God.... morons like you just don't get it..... If Statesman goes through with his plans we won't be able to solo ANY groups with any resonable reliability.

And honestly "the game is easy post lv 30"

I DON'T SEE IT.

Post 30 the game for blasters is a never ending battle to stay debt free. That's why so many SG users are complaining.... The game was ALWAYS hard for the rest of us. If they want to challenge players they should have more challenging missions (elective missions) that people could embark on that would give higher rewards than normal. Even mission sliders so people can adjust difficulty....

Making me = to 3 even level minions however is a lousy idea. And people say... well if there's more xp for those minions then what's the big deal?..... The big deal is you won't live long enough to get that xp and in missions post level 40 you routinely run into red bosses.... yellow minions..... Orange everything.... what am I supposed to do? go beg for help everytime I need to complete a mission?

The thing Statesmans plans are going to solve.... is the descision to keep playing this game or canceling my subscription all together. which is a shame because I really enjoy playing CoH. Probally more than any game to come out in the last 10 years.

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Ah - therein lies the issue. Personally, I see the level 40 minion in a whole class than a level 5 minion. They're from other dimensions. They're equipped to the teeth with experimental weaponry. They're giant robots bristling with missiles.

When you say "they're not different", it's straw man because I never said that the rank (i.e. minion) changes meaning over levels. To me, the difference is, and should be the level.

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Well, then it breaks down to you doing the exact same thing for 50 levels just with different graphics...

Not sure how much I enjoy that prospect myself though. Course for myself, it's particularly worse, since as I advance, I become less fit and able to combat equal level minions (silly hit point escalation without damage escalation).

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oh it's worse than that. they scaled up the damage even level cons do too. you got folks getting one shotted by even level bosses. bosses that hold you.... through hold resistances.

Alpha striking greys is looking more and more like the way to go.

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I'll check in with the AR/DEVs I know and find out if any of them, too, "has found that he gets killed by 3 white minions--EVERY TIME."

If that game is too big for him, personally, I'd suggest smaller packs, lower levels, and/or hitting the forums to see if (gasp) there's something he might be doing wrong where he dies every time under those circumstances. If it's too big for everyone, well then it's a balance issue. As long as the XPs balance, life is (theoretically) good.

Hmm, I wonder how he'd fare with a Scrapper by his side. Or a Tank. Or Defender or Controller.

Never mind, this is heph we're talking about. Just keep the negativity coming and try to make us all feel miserable about a game you hate so much you refuse to stop playing and discussing. Or will you stop it if we take up a donation to PL you to 50, since that seems to be the alpha and omega of your hostility?

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oh [censored] off. I shouldn't have to go find a team mate to take on 3 whites. this game is turning into gimpsville. If states man said that three whites should be a challenge and three whites wipe the floor with a blaster then that's EXACTLY what I'm complaining about.

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Have your much vaunted balance.... but please don't relegate me to getting my *** kicked by 3 minions at level 40.

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WHERE did he say this was going to happen? WHERE?

NOWHERE!


Geeze!

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Whether he said this or not, it HAS happened. A good friend, who was an admittedly overpowerd AR/DEV blaster (started before it became the FOTM) has found that he gets killed by 3 white minions--EVERY TIME, before he even gets a chance to fire off his second attack, Full Auto.

Sorry, but this nerf was heavyhanded in a way that reminds me far too much of DAOC. Hopefully, unlike DAOC, they'll realize this and scale the nerfage back.

Q

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and there you have it folks. our hero owned by 3 thugs.

the magic is gone. welcome to the grind.

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I think as far as "forced" grouping goes, it all depends on how one perceives the force involved.

WHY are you forced to group, in other words. If you perceive that you're being "forced" to group in order to maintain the same XP/min ratio, then, yeah, the game will be changed so that you can't accumulate XP as quickly on your own as you can in a group (potentially -- we've yet to see even the test version of this).

If by "forced" to group you mean simply that you cannot tackle ANY mob that grants XP without being in a group, then I disagree. Statesman's comment is that the three cons will give you a challenge, not that they're guaranteed to defeat you.

See here's the thing. People like to make blanket statements. "I can't solo." "I'm being forced to group." What they often fail to include is the unspoken additions to those sentences. "I can't solo as well as I want to or as well as that guy over there." "I'm being forced to group in order to maintain the same XP accumulation rate I had when I could kill seven guys as fast as I now kill three."

If you want to call rebalancing the game so that risks actually equal rewards nerfs, then yeah, I guess you're being nerfed. But again, I define nerfs as being made USELESS and POINTLESS in the game. This just makes the game more difficult. Adding a challenge to the game isn't a nerf necessarily.

And again, I still say this can be solved by making high-end minions really reflect that they're powerful beyond simply "I hit harder than the identical guy at lvl 10 did."

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If I can't solo an even con mission because I am constantly chain stunned, and beat into submission.... then I'm forced to team.

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opening up the game for all builds..... okayyyyyy. Tell that to a contoller or defender who already catch hell soloing. Now that minion is going to be all the harder to drop. Controller PA/Fire Imps just got borked.... So solo for them just hit the garbage can. Unless they do it against blues... or greens....

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i dont understand. yes, they can do exactly what they do now. if they want to solo blues and greens, they can. they should get similar xp to what they get now hunting whites.

plus the added benefit of they actually will have some ability to contribute in a fight against white minions while teamed, where, currently, they are situationaly useful at best.

not sure i understand the issue/problem.

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And now that I think about it how does this "fix" anything. What's to stop me from abandoning PI for now.... going back to bricks and beating down blues and greens enmasse?

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who would want to stop you from doing that?

the point is that it would create options for doing other things if you wanted to. you could team with others and actually contribute. if you want to. you can solo if you want to. the only thing that would be changing is the color of the mob, and... how does that hurt? i see it only helping.

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I don't see it helping. because people will look around and go.... man those blasters STILL out level me.

Nerf them some more. and some more... and some more...