gWrath

Great guide esp. the beginning where you laid out the bonuses you thought were significant (e.g. -Rech was "HUGE"). It's helped me identify what I want to go after in terms of bonuses and IO sets. I have a baby Sonic/Eng and other blasters. Your info will be helpful to all of them.

Good stuff, Vox. I like how you presented it.

Awesome guide due to its simplicity! I've delved into Paragonwiki, and found it a bit confusing. Your guide is a much better start for budding inventors.

Just wanted to say what an awesome guide this is. Your guides really help a casual player like me become more and more excited about the possibilities of I9. *thumbs up*

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It seems to me that a simple solution to this issue would be to add AVs/GMs to the player target version of Inherent Taunt effects, so that the tanker has a set % chance of taunting with melee attacks.


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/signed. This seems like a good compromise.

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I may have missed something while I was in Iraq the first time but taunt does not seem to be as effective as it once was. I know they gave us gaunlet now but the most effective taunt I feel is too punchvoke the mob combined with taunt to actually get there attention. My 2nd problem would be the loss of aggro. Once I get them under control they seem to lose their interest in me very quickly. As stated above, I may have missed something as I missed I4-I6 while I was away. And now I have missed I7 so if something changed please let me know.

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I came 1 month before I5, so I cant speak to all the changes. But there were some major changes to taunt, one of them being that it can only affect 5 mobs (individuals) at one time. Still autohit (for PvE).

Punchvoke/Gauntlet duration is not long, at least when compared to Taunt. Unless you have them in your aura, mobs lose the taunt 2-4 seconds (or so) afterward. Tiffany is doing some testing, and it appears the duration is short for punchvoke.

There have been recent (past month or so) complaints about wonky aggro, though nothing confirmed by testing. I haven't experienced that; I do notice a lot more runners.

Circeus also wrote a guide on Taunt - the effect (I'd read that for a better understanding).

EDIT: Stay safe.

Thanks for the response. It seems like the way to go is a SG or such. Like I mentioned, i did have a good xp RPing with my bro (to a degree). We even shaped our story so we wouldnt take duplicating mish, avoiding the "Dr. Vahz again?" conundrum.

Not sure if this is the right venue, but I'll post here anyway. By way of background, I have played PnP RPG (yes including V&V), so RPing intrigues me, but just havent gotten into it yet.

So a noob question about RPing in COH:

1. Do you spend a lot of time just typing text? I would like a balance. Not just running from mish to mish to gain xp, but acting in character through those mish, during downtimes and 'hanging out'. I would like some impact on the story of my toon e.g. my tech blaster (robot) 'unknowingly' had a connection with Citadel. After completing that TF, and defeating Vandal, that 'secret' was revealed (before he was hauled to the Zig).

OTOH, I dont want to just hang out at a zone and just chat. Some chatting is ok (and necessary to set the context for the mish). Just not for hours on end. I would rather do that in person (the pnp rpging).

2. How do you integrate storyarcs into the RP xp? Do you say (in character), "My contact has tipped me off on a lead. I need to get to a warehouse, etc." If so, how do you integrate other ppl's mish?

The closest I've come to my ideal is when my bro and I duo'd most of the time. We stayed in character, and controlled the mish we selected, as part of a growing 'storyline'.

Thinking of running Citadel or Numina for the first time. This guide is invaluable. Thanks for doing it!

As I learn more about how Invul is designed, the more bizarre it becomes. Why not net out the DEF buffs and debuffs, as others have suggested?

It makes me think that they thought of only 8 powers, but had to fill in 9 tiers. So... let's subtract DEF here (UY) and put it over here (TH), to tone down the potential DEF provided by Invinc. Viola! 9 powers!

Truly bizarre.

Eliminate the debuff in UY and redesign TH into a utility power that would not disturb the DEF/RES balance. It's silly to design a power just to break even.

Good guide. Answered a lot of the questions I've had re: this power set combination esp. Burn and Hand Clap. Thanks for taking the time.

Congrats you all. Makes me want to play villains again hehe

Excellent, comprehensive guide. Will be very useful for my baby stone/stone. There were a few things I didnt know that gave me a sense that Stone is quite a defensive set (besides Granite): defense debuffs in Rock Armor. End drain in Rooted.

I was puzzled why it was designed with F/C RES while the other armors (pre-granite) are DEF (thinking out loud).

I liked your detailed explanation of Granite esp the impact of rech reduc. I dont like Hasten so I'll consider that. Maybe 1 rech so the effect in and out of Granite are not so large.

Good info on Stalagmites; love it for my Earth/Storm controller. If its too watered down, I might skip it.

Build question: I'm finding lvl 18 to be a peculiar "decision point" in the build. If one gets Swift, Health, 2 slots for travel powers, the 3 attacks, Rooted, and EE prior to lvl 18, and is aiming to get Stamina at 20, then at 18 you are left with the following choices:

Brimstone
Crystal
Stone Skin
potentially a power pool

What would be best to get? Crystal does not seem that useful that early. You mentioned Brimstone, but I thought that armor was skippable...or it is better to respec out of it post Granite? Maybe I'll grab Brimstone, then respec out to Stone Skin post Granite...

Stone Melee question: what attack makes the screen shake? I'm certainly going to get that one.

General stone question: my biggest reservation playing Stone (having played the other mobile primaries to varying degrees) is how well can Stone keep aggro? Melee range should be no problem due to MP. But as an invul, if someone uses KB, I just jump after them. I may use Taunt or ranged attack, but I like my auravoke grabbing a lot of it.

Do you just run after them (in Swift mode)? Combat TP?

Nice post. I like reading game lore and have seemed to have missed this one.

I agree that the game needs to focus more on story. I want to play my own comic book. From 1-30, I like the speed of leveling. But what kept me going through the 30s and now in the 40s is my SG. I wish also that there could be some content and story elements (different mish, etc.) that I could look forward to. So I want the major balancing changes to be over as quickly as possible so efforts can be directed to these ends.

PvP...I'm a casual PvPer. It's fun to me but in moderate doses. But, as it stands now, PvP does not resemble a comic book battle, at least ime. I hope that it can get to that point since it can unlock huge potential.

Like having a villain as your nemesis, beyond just fighting each other in a PvP zone or arena (and talking trash). Imagine dynamic mishes linked btwn one hero and one villain (or a group), say 3-5 mish long. The begining mishs are PvE - the villain has to rob a warehouse for a tech device and fight the guards. The hero has to assault the base to recapture the device, only to find that the villain hid it somewhere else. The middle mish are designed where success or failure affects the other ppl's mish and objectives, until it culminates into 1-2 PvP battles.

As i said, the PvP battles dont really mirror the comics imo. But if it did, I would thoroughly enjoy running these "dynamic" linked mishs.

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Please consider changing taunt enhancements so that they will boost accuracy and duration in PvP. I can't stand the thought of slotting a power for PvP use what will provide ZERO benifit in the PvP game.

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Agree here. Would prefer that PvE builds are as viable for PvP as much as possible. Plus, it will confuse the casual gamer who thinks that Taunt in PvE is autohit but still accepts accuracy enh. Taunt enh that increase acc and dur in PvP should avoid that. Ppl also have a way to reduce Taunt duration in PvP (running away/breaking LOS).

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In any case, I'd really like to see tanker taunt brought back up to 100% in pvp and the duration cut short, for pvp alone, to restore some of it's usefullness.

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I like this idea. Changes to taunt make it akin to a "fear power" - making taunt 100%, shorter duration and the ability for ppl to run away or break LOS to reduce its effect even further, seems fair to me and fun.

Hey, I got to this guide late... just clicked on your sig link.

But, it's a great guide. Very easy to read and chock full of good advice with a balanced view of powers (even for me, with a lvl 39 invul/fire!). I would recommend any aspiring tanker to read your general discussions on tanker strategy.

Your pride in your toon and the AT shows!

P.S. I know it's too late to add, but note that REl also has Toxic RES.

Awesome thread folks. Haven't read all of it, but I will. Love this stuff!

Care to elaborate?

Thanks for the good info. I'm thinking of making a TA/A Defender (yea I know) or a Archery/Dev Blaster. So this guide is helpful either way. The concept of archers is just too good to pass up...

BTW, look forward to any updates once you hit lvl 32.

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Anyway, let me know if you think Tanks are working best on smaller teams these days.

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Tanking for a small team is doable. Easy, for the most part. And fun.

I think its larger teams (6 maybe - definitely 8) on high difficulties (Invincible comes to mind) is where survivability becomes a major concern.

COH:
g0dWrath - Invul/Fire Tanker
Darque RaZor - BS/Dark Scrapper
C0ld Shok - Elec/Ice Blaster
Oerth Aegis - Earth/Storm Controller
Doctor Id - Mind/Emp Controller
Mind Witch - Dark/Psi Defender
NecroTek - AR/Dev Blaster

True. Another poster just started a thread on ice/mace so it appears mace needs some love.

I started an Ice/Axe and I'm liking Axe, prob since I'm used to no status effects from fiery melee (Air Sup was my only KD power). Plus its kinda fun seeing blue/green minions being KB. Maybe not the smartest thing combat wise but it sure looks cool.

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anyhow, without getting too far offsubject my point is .. umm, k what was my point.. err balance the offensive sets please.

[/ QUOTE ] I would suggest posting your suggestions in JohnPreston's "Tanker Issues" thread. I'm quite happy with fiery melee, tho BoF could be improved. Other sets have status effects but DoT is fine with me.

You brought up some good arguments which I wanted to address. I also am up in the air on some of them, but I offer these points for discussions sake.

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But it's more than just anyone can be buffed, but Tankers usually have more than just a head start, they have higher resist caps, insane levels of status protection, aggro-generation tools (better than what any other AT gets).

[/ QUOTE ] I wonder if there will be any concensus about these concerns since it deals mainly with "meaning" versus "facts".

Stateman, and other posters, have correctly noted facts e.g. Tankers have punchvoke, Auras and taunt, all of which are superior aggro control tools. They have noted that tankers have the most hp and start off with the most defenses (DEF and RES). All these are facts that I think can't be refuted.

But the important question is: "yeah, and so what?" in relation to the role that they are supposed to play. The fact that tankers are aggro kings means little if aggro mgmt, to the extent that tankers possess, is not needed. A better example is one posted by Iron_Vixen:

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Thread: The silence hurts the most 12/11/05
Just look at Invuln's (as an example) non-S/L resists. Invuln Tanker with 3 SOs in Uy and R/En:27.5%, Invuln Scrapper:20.5% (rough estimates). That is a mere 7% difference.

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True, invul tankers have more RES than an invul scrapper. But does the 7% benefit mean anything? Will it ostensibly increase your survivability over a Scrapper, for the role you are supposed to play (let's assume meatshield)? Or will an invul tanker die only 7% seconds later than an invul Scrapper? Imagine:

Tanker: Ha! I was the last one standing by 7 seconds!
Scrapper: So? We're BOTH dead!

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Also the same arguement for saying multiple tankers being redundant is the same for defenders...
Either way it's going to be an extremely safe experience.

[/ QUOTE ] I like the phrase "safe experience". That's what trollers/def/tankers (the "support AT's) really offer (or should offer) to a team.

I think the consensus as to how many tankers is necessary for a large team is still open. I see no problem if two tankers (or any support classes) are necessary for an 8-man team. But you should be able to mix n match so two tankers = 2 def = 1 troller + 1 def = 1 tanker + 1 def, etc.

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I also agree with Statesman that no one AT is a requirement...
Not knocking any AT here, but I don't think any are a requirement as a rule.

[/ QUOTE ] I agree with this design consideration. No AT should be required. But many posters don't really argue this (i.e. "tankers MUST be required on ALL teams from heroic to invincible!"). The majority of the arguments are "I want tankers to contribute something to the team that is unique to tankers".

Again, it is a fact that tankers can do dmg and ergo, can be argued that "we contribute". But since other ATs far overshadow us in this regard, it's not something I would want to hang my AT's hat on.

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The anyone can tank arguement also applies to blasters and scrappers, as anybody can do damage.

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True. But there is an inherent design in the game that makes damage dealers more desireable than support ATs: coh is a combat game whose ultimate goal is to defeat mobs. You cannot "buff/debuff/tank/control" mobs to defeat them. Someone must attack the mob to do that.

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Anyone can mitigate damage, like Controllers, Defenders and Tankers. But offense is a good way of doing that, too.


[/ QUOTE ] True. I think other posters have argued such under the rubric of "aggro mgmt". Every AT learns (or should learn) how to manage aggro. The sytem is designed at heroic that no AT is needed. Ergo, a tanker, someone with high levels of aggro control, is not needed on heroic. Again, one could argue that blasters and scrappers also are not needed. OTOH, they help defeat mobs faster which is the point of this game ultimately.

A better argument can be found btwn trollers vs. def vs. tankers. All three are support classes so both should bring something to the table (e.g. "safety") but in different ways. But as some have argued and as some posters have admitted, teams tend to want trollers/def over tankers.

Some posters have indicated that tankers do well on small teams (<= 4) but a def/troller is preferable on larger teams. This is sad, since I would think, on larger teams, there are larger spawns. Larger spawns would require better aggro control - tanker's supposed specialty.