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Just think tho, if everyone was "lazy and smart", there'd be nothing for sell to just log into WW for.

Now on the flip side, i think the smart ones are the ones like me. I farm and just sell my drops to the ones lazy enuff to pay for them. I don't/won't pay 300mil for anything in game and have several purp'd toons on multiple accounts.

lol at Sardan. Everything does more everything with a /kin.

If u have the accounts, this is what i use: 1 Fire/Kin, 1 Fire/Rad, and 1 Fire/Sonic. Set to +3x8. Can run +4's but miss a bit more due to bosses.

Solo, i run my fire/kin or elec/sd scrapper. Both run at +2x8 solo. Run against Praetorians. Easy to stun and die fast.

First off, Leo, please read the posts before replying with false claims. Claws on the first page said only 3 toggles were needed and the rest were optional. Sharker said you only need 4 toggles on the first page also. Fulmens post was a contradiction. Again, read the posts. He told me i slotted wrong because i slotted for end red. Then said in his build that was so good, that he slotted for major end red. Hmmm.

Secondly, Sharker wasnt to leave a comment saying lrn2bildthnks. Well, your majesty, popping a blue doesn't make an awesome build. Then he says nothing will hit you if you use offensive toggles??? DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME?

Umbral, i agree with you. With IO's i can make it uber like my other toons. But at level 30, running radios in talos with some friends, i couldn't play this toon effectively. Constantly popping blues or resting. But i was attacking, something scrappers do. I may have had too many toggles running but, hey, they were in my powerset to choose from.

I PL all my toons to level 22 and grab level 25 commons. I then play the toons, pl the toons and whatever til i hit 50, then i IO every build i have and my wife has. It's without doubt i can make it work with IO's, but as far as we are told they are not not needed to play.

It don't matter that Cloud and I showed multiple charts on how /DA uses more end than any other scrapper secondary. Show some numbers and/or builds to offset what we are saying. Please. I'd love to see some builds that work with SO's, Commons. I will PL mine and 1 for you to use and see if it works.

Fulmens, you like to reply alot to an iggy'd person. But anywho, I'm NOT trying to take it away from people who like it. Like you ASSUME. I was simply asking if everyone thought it was balanced with all the other scrapper sets. Other than you and Kali, people have replied in here, and more people talk about it in game. Everyone loves the set, myself included, but everyone i've spoken to hates the endurance issues. Unless we do like Kali suggests and only select 4 powers from the set. My reply to that is, but why should we only be able to take 4 powers from a set to make t work? Please start sending broadcasts in your server or in a chat channel you use and see the responses.

Also, this post was centered around to not HAVING to use IO's since everyone loves to point out how they're NOT NEEDED, when people start complaining about the prices of everything continuing to go up. So, Clouded, was "going back to pre-IO world" as you claimed. We were starting from there in my original post in case you didn't read it. And what scrapper uses hover? That just sounds dumb.

You also said in your last post that you slotted everything for end red. Well, when i said that's how i tried to do mine (even in my attacks too) you and Kali said i slotted it wrong and messed it up. Hmm, can we spell CONTRADICTION? Like i said, i had 2 end red in each toggle and 1 per power and still couldn't cycle thru my attack chain. I also had stamina 3 slotted. I was using level 25 commons which offer 32%.

Please feel free to reply to me again, since i'm iggy'd and all. Personally, i think you love me.

blah blah blah is all i get from you. Like i said, just because 2 people replied that don't have an end problem because you only choose 4 powers from the set is fine. EVERYONE else that chooses the powers from /DA has issues but that's ok with you too, because YOU dont.

If you look at the post i left that lists EVERY scrapper secondary, you can clearly see that /DA has 2x the toggles and 2 at .52 and one of those has a VERY low accuracy level to it, too. But all you can say is, don't select the powers from the set. Very practical if you want to select /DA but don't want to select any of the powers from the set. You may as well select a different secondary, honestly.

Also, if you read my posts, you'd see that i've made several diff /DA toons. Does that sound like i don't like the set? Nope. I really do and want to find a combo other than DM to play with it. I know DM has Dark Consumption, but i don't wanna play that combo. I guess that's silly too tho.

Oh, my bad Uber. I usually refer to marketeering as flipping, or bidding low and trying resell higher. If you refer to marketeering as just using WW in general, then my bad. I would just call that shopping. lol. I know its not a store, BUT it's the only way to get everything you need. When's the last time anyone made a build on what they got in drops only? If i did, id have every snipe, stun and sleep recipes out there. lol.

Personally, i don't think it takes a genious or any guide to be able to make inf in WW. Look for uncrafted recipes, add the salvage to it, craft it, then SELL it. Easy peasy. Or place 15 low bids on something, get it, relist it higher and wait for it to sell. Which ones? You may ask. Well, any of the good recipes that you want on your toons. Posi, Oblits, Imperv Armor, LotG, Numina, Doctored Wounds, ANY PURPLE, Decimation, MOST UNIQUES, PROCS...

What is there to really learn? My wife even made 900mil on her toon this past week. Actually in 4 days just farming and selling her drops. Again, easy peasy.

As if marketeering is the only way....

Welcome to the game.

My first 50 was a katana/regen scrapper. Katana has your weapon, does really good damage and has nice unlocks in the future. While /regen gives you a heal, kb and sleep protection and extra enurance if you need. Very easy to solo with.

As far as MM's go, my first was a thug/dark. It got very easy in the mid 30's. I ended up deleting him.

The only server i play on is Justice. If you visit, look for the Justice United channel. TF's everyday, teams, weekly Hami and Mothership raids. And an occasional farm, if i'm on. lol.

That's really another topic. Everyone plays to have their own kinda fun. Some peoples fun is just trying to make inf. Others like to just play the game. IMO, WW is a totally different game than CoH. Some run mishes, some farm solely. I fall into the farming category. I only play with the same 5 people. If they're not on, i farm. But i'm having fun doin it.

I think it all depends on what you want in game and how many hours you can play.

Couple examples:

If you want the purple builds, then yes, they are expensive and it's only going up. Can you get them? Depends on how much you play. 1 hour a day prolly wont cut it any time soon.

My wife ran a few farms while i was at work this week. (her own fire/kin and bm map) She went from 70mil to 930mil in like 4 days. NO MARKETEERING NEEDED. All she done was craft and sell her drops. (5 or 6 purples included) Although they were sleep, stun ones, she still made almost a billion inf in less than a week.

Now, is that alot? Not if you wanna go purp out a build but it's a ton if you just use really good sets to better your toons.

Depends on how you like to play, too. If you enjoy placing bids and reselling, go for it. If you feel like playing the toons you're trying to better, then go for it. Don't be fooled that one way is better than the other.

Claws, i did bring it up to complain about it. I wasn't seeking help from 2 people that are fine with it and thinks EVERYONE else is wrong. Like i said, i deleted it before you and Fulmens had the opportunity to tell me that I was wrong and didn't know how to build the toon. To say, "i NEVER take advice offered", you act like you tell me stuff everyday. LOL. I don't need your advice on anything. I can see for myself that the set has 2 times as many toggles and 0 auto powers to help mitigate end usage. I could care less about the regen power, it fills my health all the way. Maybe i'll rerun it and just take half the powers of the set to make it, "ok".

And what about toons that solo the majority of the time like myself. I don't like PuGs, so i solo alot or play with a few of the same people. I guess i should just say the set is awesome and it don't have any issues as long as i'm on a team, like Fulmens said. Every toon works fine like that though.

I have a personal friend i play with every week, and has over 50 level 50 toons, 60+ vet and several purpled out toons and has also deleted several dark toons and laughs at me every time i make a /DA set. He must not know anything either. I doubt that though, i've seen his toons at work.

CLOUDED, i like the way you think. Some very valid points, other than endurance issues.

Either way. Twice as many toggles and 0 autos still don't seem balanced to me no matter if 2 people here says it is fine as is. You're right, noone can run 7 toggles so why have that many? None of the other sets do and i wonder how they'd run if they did, huh?

Ok, let me see here.

Dark Armor- 7 toggles. - before tough, weave. =9 toggles. highest tic is .52x 2 powers
0 auto powers- no end.

Electric Armor- 4 toggles - before tough, weave = 6 toggles highest tic is .52 x1 power
2 Auto- no end.

Fire Aura- 3 toggles- before tough, weave =5 toggles highest tic is .52 x 1 power
1 auto- no end

Inv --- 3 toggles- before tough, weave = 5 toggles (all others highest tics are .26)
4 auto - no end

Regen-- 1 toggle- before tough, weave = 3 toggles
3 auto- no end

Shield- 3 toggles- before tough, weave = 5 toggles
2 auto - no end

Super Reflex- 3 toggles- beofre tough,weave = 5 toggles
4 auto - no end

Willpower- 4 toggles- before tough,weave = 6 toggles
3 auto- no end

The only other power that is even close is Willpower and it has 2 stamina powers to support it. Theres no doubt that /DA has way more end usage than any other power in the scrappers armors.

Now, there's the FACTS. Granted, you take the powers offered. Not all powers may be taken by different players. But personally, i like to be able to pick the powers from the set i choose to play.

Actually, that's a rule of thumb for *any* character you run with. OP, if you screwed up DA the way you did, every other set minus Regen, will drain your endurance just as badly.

That's what i disagreed with, Leo. Like i said, not all AT's endurance usage are the same. Therefore they all won't drain ednurance just as badly.



And Fulmens, i HAVEN'T changed any. I'm not a flip floppy person and have no reason to change. If you hadn't been an *** and was like, "i know i have this person on iggy, but" ..... That was an uneeded comment to start off with when replying to a post. Just reply and shutup about extra useless info. So, please, keep me on iggy and don't reply to my posts with useless crap.

Thanks for the replies. I need to clarify a couple things. I can/do know how to slot toons, as i have many, many toons i play just fine and never use/need blues like i have with /dark armors. You're welcome to team with me any time if you doubt me. I've prolly PL'd half of you on Justice, so you should know.

1) I was 30, when i deleted. I had 1 acc in each attack and 2 end red and 1 damage in each attack and 2 end red per toggle. Still missed alot on mobs my level to +1 and would run low on end thru 1 attack chain.

2) Like someone mentioned earlier, i should've just pop the toggles as needed. I was running a few at one time. I love the look of dark, so i tried to use each toggle. Like i said, if using the powers hinder the performance, i think that sucks because no other build i've ever played done this. (after stamina)

Now on a side note, i have an elec/sd IO'd out the rear with all the recov procs, 4 sets of purps and 4 7.5% rechs, and so forth and so on. I run 6 toggles with him and never touch a blue. Now, where's the argument on not "needing" IO's?

3) I disagree Leo, big time. ALL OTHER powers aren't the same. Many have way lower end ticks per power and nowhere near as many toggles running. Take INV for example. It has what, 3? Before pools. No end issue there, even if i did screw up the build, huh..

4) And, Fulmens, i really don't care if you put me on iggy. It doesn't make my day one way or the other. But thanks for pointing that out. Maybe someone else will follow suit. Please, feel free to iggy me for not agreeing with you. Having ones own opinion is rare these days, i know. Esp, in the market forums where "its all me" or "how much can i make"... Have a good life, sir.

/DA isn't exceptionally end hungry.


First time i've heard that on /DA.

Turning toggles off/on may help but i deleted already. Went the way of Plant/Storm. Got an Ill/Storm, and tho /Storm can be big on end, it is more managable in my experiences. Also made an Ice/Fire tank to try. Not sure on this one tho. New to the sets.

I gave one away the other day. I dont need it for pvp and am not built from the same greed mold around here. Was a CC gift.

I ran him some earlier. I know all the powers are optional, but i like to select my toons powers. I'd hate to pick up CJ when his actual powers look so cool but hurt the toons performance more than help. It sux, too, that i can't even slot accuracy in my powers due to all the end red's. If i do save some end, i miss every foe. I'm so disappointed in the dark sets performance.

If this game is still based around SO's, then how can a toon manage the endurance comsuption of a dark themed toon? I've deleted 2 b4 and looks like i'm headed to a 3rd and i REALLY want a dark toon. 2 Spines/Dark and now a Fire/DArk

1) I always get stamina and the proc. (although, it shouldn't be NEEDED if the game isnt based around using IO's for toons)

2) I have 2 level 25 common end red's. per toggle and 1 or 2 per attack.

I feel like it needs a couple Auto powers or lower ticks of end usage. Every 2ndary is a toggle and i can't even pull off an attack chain w/o popping blues. Most of the people i talk to in-game agree so i thought i'd post about it and see if anything can be done.

Also, if anyone has any ideas as to how to manage it, please feel free to share BUT please, don't just say get him some IO's. I can do that, but it shouldn't be needed, like people love to point out how IO's aren't needed.

You are always killing the most optimal targets in terms of endurance per XP point. And that is +2 bosses


Not every toon can run mishes at this level.

Ima try it tomorrow. I was thinking the same as Fury said. Buy level 50-52 SO's for 1k each and resel at vendor for 13-15k each to get started. See where i go from there.