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Quote:Well, i apologize to you Uber if you took it that way. The initial post was to the people that try to hurt the market for others. Then the snarkiness came after the posts from others. My B dood. I could care less bout the flippers or anyone just trying to make a buck. But trying to buy crap that other people really want for personal gains (in inf) is stupid. IMO. It's not in my nature, but i guess others view stuff differently. Anyways, back to farm.I'm not taking your posts personally. The problem is that you're claiming that the only people making money around here are (a) flippers and (b) farmers like yourself. It's a foundation of your argument, and I'm evidence that it's not true. I'm pointing out how I'm different not because I feel personally affronted by your posts, but because it undercuts your broad generalized claims about the market, and how it's only usable by people who are willing to flip goods.
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Quote:Why do you take all my posts personally? When i say "people" im not saying ONLY UBER DOES THIS. Yes, i do farm everyday to afford the nicer things in WW and to get rare drops to sell or slot. The thing that you, sir, are missing is that PEOPLE DO, do those things i've said. Do you read all of my posts or pick out stuff to just whine about? So, please keep flaming me and not the ones posting about screwing up WW. Later Gator.Do you even read our replies? I told you in this thread that have 10s of billions of inf, richly IO'd characters, and I have done it while doing none of those three things. I told you that, but you either failed to read it, or you refuse to accept or believe it.
Oh, and you forgot one, in my opinion.
ex 4) farming
I don't do that to any meaningful level, while you've made it sound like it's a pretty full-time engagement for you. -
It's all good. I'm use to dealing with 12 year olds on here. Here's my thoughts.
1st) i don't think i ever said EVERYONE tries to screw up the market by manipulating it. I think i said it's stupid that people try to do that. i didn't include flippers, i said MANIPULATORS. people who purposely set out to mess people over for this "play money" you like to refer to it as. the same "play money" that people spend real money on to afford the market.
2nd) my guess is that the ones all up in arms are the one trying or doing it. it CAN be done with certain pieces and to say it can't is a flat out lie.
3rd) i understand it just fine. if there isn't a certain level of pieces available, then people tend to pay more. what's f'd up is the drop rate sux, imo, and to have as many people play this game that does (not even counting alts) to have 2 pieces readily able to buy, then to have people that DO (because it's very easy with 2-5 pieces) screw up the prices is just stupid to me.
4th) i never said i was better until i was refered to as a saint. but hey, some people can be called worse on here. but i feel like i do the players a justice to list all my drops at 222. at least the people that want it, may get it a tad cheaper.
5th) to use "fair price" don't makes sense either in WW. what's fair to some may not be fair to all. so to say, im the close minded one is funny also. i'm not the one all out for me. but please refer to that statement as im saying everyone else is, since u like to make it sound like that when i say people are. people do, is not quite the same thing as everyone does. (like in my original posts) -
Lmao. Darn, you told me. Thank you for all the kind things you've said about me being a saint. Too bad you can't say the same things about yourselves or we'd all be in a better place. Instead, you show your true colors and how little you can think for yourselves when someone has their own thoughts and don't conform to the markets way of thinking, you can't handle it and freak out and call names like a 10 year old. So funny.
Let me show a couple examples of how little you can think for yourselves and have to use a forum to come up with an idea of how to make inf. instead of "playing the game you love to play".
ex 1) ooh ooh, i want to find a niche
ex 2) ooh ooh, i bought this lower than the other person, imma resell it for 5 inf more
ex 3) ooh ooh, i can buy all these up and bid 5 mil more, and resell all these things and make uber inf.
ex 4) ooh ooh, i can buy this recipe and ruuuuuun to the vendor and sell it for 10k more.
ex 5) ooh ooh, i can buy a recipe go craft it and make and xtra 5-30mil inf.
It's all so simple even for an ignorant person, but yet, i don't have to come in here and ask how to do it. Here's an idea, think for yourself and figure out how to make inf. without
ex 1) trying to whodo players
ex 2) asking a forum for help
ex 3) buying it from rmt'ers
Lmao @ Ironblade. If i disagree with your truth, then i must be wrong too. It works both ways, bud. A massive flow of inf. and 3 pieces to buy shows just how easy it is to manipulate items by people that want to. If i bought those 3 and relisted it for higher, i PROMISE you they'd sell. Esp, when there's pieces that goes MONTHS without sells. Since i've stopped a toon at 35, i've made a killing on "the good pieces" because there's 0 for sell. So, i know i could put 1 up, use and alt to manipulate prices on some of them. It'd be too easy. But i get 9k tickets per hour so i don't feel the need to take advantage of the players that want those pieces.
You guys that get all up in arms because i said that some people can do it tickles me. I wonder why? Hmmmm.... -
Quote:So you missed the part where Donna was told that it probably wouldn't work because no single person could completely cut off supply for most items, and would inevitably get undercut by other people who do things like post their items for 222 and allow the lowballers to get what they want for less than the going rate?
Or did you just choose to ignore it?
The fact that people can come up with plans for how to make inf or corner the market does not mean they will work. Most such plans, if you've followed the market forums at all, result in a loss of inf.
I think you've demonstrated quite a bit of imagination in this thread, yes.
Oh ok. Sorry. I'm sure she's the only one who thought of it or does it. And with only a few pieces to even buy, i'm sure it's really hard to do. It's good that you let me know that. Thanks. -
Quote:I know some stop at 35 and 40. der. I can get level 35 recipes cause i stopped a toon at 35 for AE rolls. I'm not part of the problem when i sell my drops for 222. ALL of them. Do you? I don't even use 35 recipes but that don't mean others don't. (cept for kin com)Level 50? Two of those recipes don't go up to lvl 50, so that kind of blows your argument about knowing what you're talking about.
First off, you're not disaggregating the various recipes in each set. Second, many of the prices have gone down, according to your numbers above.
Some Posi's Blasts (the pool B's) will go for 100k or so recipe. The Posi pool C's (the triple and the proc) have dropped in price at most ranges; they used to cost over 10 million. That price has gone down.
Level 50 Obliterations (you don't say which ones) hovering at 10-30 million? The pool C's (quad and proc) used to sell at lvl 50, uncrafted typically for 40 million, sometimes skyrocketing up over 100 million. At one point, people made the argument that the "big 3" C's, LotG, Numina and Miracle uniques, had become the "big 4" including the Oblit quad. That price has gone down. The B's (D/R, A/D/R) have definitely gone up in price in the middling levels.
My first pool C Impervium armors I ever sold--level 40s--both went for 40 million, as recipes. According to you, they're now 30 million. That price has gone down.
There are many prices that have gone up; more than have gone down. There is inflation in the game. You're just rather unobservant about which prices are inflating.
And if you're gonna complain about lack of recipes in the middling levels, then stop powerleveling your toons on a 50 map. You're part of that problem. -
Oh ok. lmao. I do understand that someone can come in here asking how to buy up all the stuff that is already limited and relist it to cause an increase and that's ok. You act like that wasn't even said and i'm ignorant. Well, if i am then you're stupid to think that don't happen. But someone comes in and calls BS on that and gets flamed, name called, and sent to hell for calling it out. That's ok though. I can handle it and keep farming it up and selling it to you stupid people paying it.
I guess the buying inf with REAL money is ok with you too because i've seen it happen and even wrote down the name of the rmt toon when a guy offered me 1 bill inf to pl him to 50. Then said he'd be back so he could go get the inf he just bought. I'm sure you don't think that helps the increase in WW either when people can just buy the inf to afford the increases that the manipulators have helped cause.
See, you too choose what you want to read and pick apart when i say that certain things HELP to cause this stuff and haven't blamed it on fliipers. Flippers and manipulators are 2 diff beasts. To buy low and sell at the going rate is far diff from buying it all up to sell higher. LRN2REED. -
Quote:Just checked WW. Oblits at 35 are 0 for sale and up to 38mil uncrafted. Tha'ts about 4 times what they were. Level 50's are hovering between 10-30mil.Prior to the AE explosion, most high-tier and some mid-tier orange salvage went for more than a million. Prophecies, Deific Weapons, and Pangean Soils often sold for more than 5 million blueside. AE brought those prices down to a fairly stable 1 million for almost all mid- and high-tier salvage blueside, but also brought some prices up (Military Cybernetic, I remember, rocketed up to a million from under 100k per). I do actually miss the AE days a little, since it was very easy to estimate how much crafting rare recipes would run you. Since AE stopped, some of the expensive oranges have actually dipped in price--especially redside.
The price of most Touch of Deaths and Positron's Blasts have gone down recently, actually (throwing out the AE interregnum), though I've seen ToD go up just recently a bit. Some of the Impervium Armors have gone down, too. Obliteration doesn't seem to have changed much, though I haven't bought any in the last couple months. I don't know Numina's other than the unique, which has increased, but only that and Kinetic Combat have really increased in price. (The Kinetic Combat triple, lvl 35, once could be had for a million in recipe form, blueside.) So you're not telling the truth, or not very observant, or haven't been paying attention long enough to make a qualified statement about prices.
The main reason prices have gone up and up on the purple end is all those people powerleveling their toons to 50, using farming builds all the time, and generating enough influence to pay the silly prices.
Posi's are decent.
Imperv's are up to 30mil on 3 pieces.
Kin Com are up to 60 mil on a couple pieces. (which is half of what you need)
Numina's are up to 40 mil on 3 pieces. (half of them aren't avail at 35)
LotG are all over the place on 35 and 50's. (cept for 7.5)
So, compared to the low 10's of mil that we used to pay, yes they are up quite a bit. Maybe you're the one that hasn't been around long enough to know what the prices use to be. These again were UNcrafted.
Kin Com's crafted are up to 100mil on 2 pieces atm. Im looking.
Imperv Armor are ave of 40mil
Numinas are ave around 40-50mil
Those are at 50. So, yes, i do know what i'm talking about. I've paid as little as under 10mil per for these before whatever is causing the increases. So, please tell me again how the prices are going down. Or shall i buy u a new compass? -
Quote:hehe i am fast learning that I am the type of person that makes flipping work :P
Impatience is the key... It's funny cause i always look at the last sold figues and bid the highest because i usually can't be bothered to delete a bid that doesn't get me the item and retype the figure... haha.
So you probably would all make a mint outta me on union, :P
Well here's an idea, is it possible to change the price of an item when people are unsure what the value really is... say there is something with no bids, but a small supply.
20 IO's for example.
What would stop me buying them all, and reposting at a price + 20 Mil over the original...
I would use another toon to buy 5 at the new price so that the sale history was consistant.... and there after all sales would be at the higher price???
Or would that just be very destructive to the market ?
Read this. Now i guess i'm still the ignorant one one because i think this type of thinking is killing the market by keeping people away from it. This proves every post that i have left about how the prices get raised and stay raised or go up. You don't have to keep lieing about the prices not going up, i know better. I visit WW and sell often and i know the difference in what i sold for in the past and what i sell for now. That's why we need not to see what people pay for stuff or show 30 sells like someone else posted.
People actually do this, and i'm sure this person isn't the only one that thinks that way so to say it doesn't or don't happen shows the lies being told in the market section. So, i'll play the ignorant part and keep farming and selling at the inflated prices that people like this DO cause.
I don't need inf. To make posts about me not knowing how to make inf in game is just talking out their bums due to the fact you don't know me. To want better for the game or other people in this game to be able to enjoy IO'ing toons, getting sets, and what not doesn't make me the bad guy that you people want me to be. I know how the system works and to try to make me look bad just shows how scared the market people are of people wanting a better system for EVERYONE. -
Quote:eryq2,
I know people that play this game for less than 10 hours a week that have billions of influence and IO all of their characters very well, through smart shopping and crafting things themselves.
One of my best friends started playing and in less than one month, just from buying recipes and crafting them for sale, had more influence available for buying IOs than some of us that had played for years.
Influence is literally created in this game. That is where the inflation you see really comes from, the fact that more currency is created by the minute.
In this topic, as with others I have seen you discuss, you simply refuse to see reason if it does not cater to your world view, regardless of the facts at hand.
The thing that you are railing against the most here, the idea of buying all of something and then being able to set the price, cannot even be done for than a few hours here and there on specific things.
The reason prices are high on things really is simple.
More currency is printed rapidly and people are willing to pay high prices. Add to that, it is play money in a game (that many of us realize that) and you have the market as it is today.
This overall greed you speak of does not do to the market what you claim.
But, by all means, continue to espouse the nonsense you enjoying spreading around so that people who really understand how things work can use you as an example to educate others.
Lol. Ok. I haven't been here playing for 5 years. I also don't sell recipes everyday. I also haven't made billions by listing my recipes at 222 instead of trying to buy up all of the products to force players to pay more. I also haven't seen the increases in everything worth actually buying. I am so sorry i don't know how little the availabilty is in the mid range level of recipes so a SG was created to stop toons at certain levels to try to supply some. I also don't know that with only 3 for sale, that i couldn't buy all 3, log a 2nd account and buy 1 for a higher price, then place all 3 for that price to try to manipulate the market. I'm sorry that i have to play with people on a game that tries to do that and make it harder for the players that don't have the time or the influence that i do.
I guess i should laugh at those losers like the manipulators do. If it's so easy to make inf. or find the pieces that you want then why do people have the need to buy everything and list at higher prices? Just for giggles? But, instead of negative posts for those that attempt to do this, feel free to ridicule the one, me, that says that's a BS thing to do for the game. Go ahead, i'll wait. (how's that last line for a Katt Williams line, Loh) -
Quote:People who don't understand how to shop cleverly make stupid mistakes. Like people who don't know how to use plural state-of-being-verbs.
Until you can provide proof that the numbers are universally migrating upwards and that it's legitimately driving people away, eryq, all you're doing is what you've ever done, which is complaining about a problem you imagine because it makes you feel good.
Wow, really? Well orange salvage went to 2mil after AE from a couple hundred thousand AND hasn't really came down. (even with EVERYONE listing it lower to sell it) Hm, purples went from 30mil to over 200 and up to 400mil. Crafted and/or uncrafted. (cept for the sleep ones or confuse) And every other set that people like... Numina, Touch of Death, Oblits, Kin Com, Imperv Armors, Positrons Blast. Heck, anything with good bonus %'s. Maybe you haven't been around long enough to see the old prices and all you see is the manipulated market prices.
Imagine? Yea, that's what i do when people come in here trying to post a way to manipulate the market by buying everything to relist higher. But yea, it's my imagination. SO, think it isn't happening all you want and the next time i sell one purple for the new 300mil i'll keep in mind how you could've got it alot lower. -
Why do many people refer to it as a "mini nuke"? Is it refering to a blasters nuke? If so, i think it does just as much damage. I can easily drop everyone in a 0x8 mob with 1 SC. To me, that's not mini. lol.
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I get ok rolls with bronze, but i get really good rolls in 30-34 silver or 35-39 gold.
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Well, if everyone lists the item lower than the last 5, then how is the prices steadily going up and not down? When i do get ready to IO a toon, i try to bid creep. You know what happens? I may get it for 1 or 2 mil less than the last 5. That's hardly a "deal" when it's 20mil or more from the last time i IO'd a toon.( i prolly do 1 a month) So, i see not how if everyone lists it lower the prices keep going up. Maybe my up and down cursor is screwed up.
If the last 5 aren't shown it'll force everyone to bid creep and not just throw up the last sale number. You won't be able to manipulate what you have no idea if it'll sale because you've listed it too high or higher than people are willing to go. The beauty about it is that's where the "vaue" comes in to play, imo. What's worth 2 mil to 1 person may be worth 200k to someone else. Nothing's wrong with random prices because recipes aren't worth the same to everyone but everyone has to pay the same thing. When's the last time you seen an Oblit or Kinetic Combat or Numina sell for less than 1 mil or 5 mil? I haven't looked lately but the last ones i sold were 20-50mil. I remember paying hundreds of thousands for them but i guess with people selling less than the last 5 shown, that less has got us to 50mil. -
Quote:I think if the bids aren't shown, then the "value" of something is placed solely on the bidder. Not the seller. You place bids on what you think it's worth, they sell at what they think it's worth. Not, hm, that person paid that so i'll list mine at that, too. History has shown us that this happens, hence the increase in everything. That's how it goes now. Show me a case where someone seen something sell and the next time they go to sell the same piece, it gets listed at the new higher amount.How the heck does lack of information help anyone? That REALLY puts the power in the hands of an ebil marketeer, who will know from tracking their niche what things will sell for, and takes it away from the casual buyer, who will have no idea what to bid.
What you want is to have a listing of last 10, or last 15 sold. That would make it harder for someone to manipulate the market as you seem to believe they do (I don't think its as easy to make money that way as you think, but either way it helps prevent manipulation).
See, noone here will agree because it may help lower the prices and all they care about is all they can get. 100 bil is worth no more than 100 mil if the prices continue to rise and it takes more and more to IO a toon. -
Quote:if you suddenly took away the last 5 bids, what you would have is people keeping lists out of game for prices sold and then you'd see alot more of the kind of people you seem to hate most : price gougers. Why ? because now no one knows what anything is worth and they have no choice but to keep bidding til they get it.
How is that different from now? With last 5 sales shown, people have a ball park of where an item might sell at and can know what a high or low bid is. Now sellers and buyers know what other items have sold for and they can sell/bid lower than that if they choose. Without the last 5 sold, it's 100% a guessing game for buyers and a "lets work together to set prices" game for sellers.
Things would be so much worse off if this got implemented.
Of course a better option for people like you is to implement a magic IO elf that dispenses any IO for 1 inf. This way you never have to work for anything at all.
You don't know me or what you're talking about. How many hours of game do you log a week? I log around 50 on average. Not work for anything? 90% of my hours are farming and pl'ing others in AE. I don't want it for 1 inf, i just hate to see people take advantage of the system due to poor drop rates. When there's only 3 recipes or 0 for sale on ANY item is ridiculous on a game that's based on making alts and playing them. When people have 3 pages per server full of alts and no way to slot them makes the system broken, imo. -
Quote:If people don't buy it at the new, high price, the recipes sit unsold and the manipulators take a bath de-listing and losing their list fee, then re-listing lower. And that happens; I've been caught overpricing stuff several times (I'm not much of a marketeer, actually).
What's "reasonable?" Some players want it more; some players have more money. How can we determine what's "reasonable" in a world where supply is limited and random (which is the world the Devs seem committed to; we'll never be able to buy set IOs at a store for a fioxed price).
Here's how: The market exists mostly to determine what a "reasonable bid" is. We ask everyone what they're willing to pay -- for real, not what they'd assert in a forum argument -- and by God, we find out.
My fix to determine "reasonable" would to have blind bids. No last 5 seen. If you think it's worth 10mil, list it and when someone pays it you'll get it. If you think it's worth 100mil, list it. To show bids does nothing to help anything.
As far as the middle level stuff, the rolls should drop in the level rolled, not a 50 just because you're 50. (or 30, 40 if it only goes that high) To have people gimp thier toons to 35 for best rolls vs. inf paid to get it is stupid, imo. Notice i said, IMO. -
Quote:I agree but it doesn't help when people try to manipulate the prices of the market though. Buying low, selling high is one thing if you can get it low then sell it for whatever someone pays is totally different than the people who intentionally try to make it hard on others to make a quick buck. Someone said they were trying to do it to afford higher priced recipes. Don't they realize they're having to do what someone done? Like i said, it's a circle. Makes sense in a willy wonka world i guess.Prices tend to go up because there's inflationary pressure on the supply of INF. Players gain INF by defeating mobs and completing missions, but those activities only have a chance of dropping an item to sell or use. The supply of INF is greater than the amount of things to spend it on, so prices go up as the purchasing power of INF erodes.
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Quote:I agree with you. I've become 1 rich **** with alot of alts since dual boxing. I only use it for solo purposes tho. I hardly team with it unless its globals that are dualing also. It has made alot in game less complicated. I actually run 3.What? You came to THAT conclusion?
I think it is the opposite. I dual box to make it LESS COMPLICATED to transfer loot between toons. I dual box to make it LESS COMPLICATED to get accolades on several toons. I dual box to make it LESS COMPLICATED to run long TFs in big zones or with no movement. I dual box to make it LESS COMPLICATED to PL my own toons.
I went three years playing this game without dual boxing. The game is much LESS COMPLICATED since I started. -
I have the scrapper version IO'd on Justice if you ever want to see him in action. He's soft capped on defense and both charges are up for each mob in a farm. Add a /kin = xtra juicyness. Although, he is pretty awesome solo. Soft capped will allow you to stand in the middle of 2 0x8 mobs and health bar not move. +1's barely touch you, BUT if they do you'll know it. I can solo +4x8 w/o bosses easily. If the Brute is better, i want one.
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Oh another name caller. Nice. Grow up. Nothing about buying up all of one thing is contructive to the market or productive on it except for the greedy person doing it. That's whats wrong with the market. It's too easily manipulated.
The whole competing thing for lower prices don't work. Want proof? Look at how everything keeps going up. If it was a good competitive lowering of the prices, then, well, the prices would be going down. Not up.
Like i said, once a "baller" pays a top dollar bid, everyone starts listing at that price to get a higher sell price. If it didn't work that way, then teh last 5 sold would be all over the place. But they aren't are they? They hover at one spot until someone pays more to get it nao, then that becomes the last 5 listed. Why else would everything keep going up?
There's nothing on the market i can't afford. But i made my billions by listing everything at 222. Odd ,huh, that one can make inf like that without trying to manipulate the market.
Also, Lohenien, i got your PM. What was the point of sending me a PM? The only thing that made any sense in that whole post was the Katt Williams part. He's a funny ****. -
Quote:Except that tactic only works in the imaginations of the clueless. Not in the market.
And now the entitlement factor shows up. Who defines a reasonable price? You? hmm.... How about the market?
Hello? Duh! Supply is only one side. Demand is the other. No one said the drop rate decreased, but that doesn't make greed the only other possibility.
Yeah, yeah, you're a saint and a paragon of altruism. You made that clear in a previous post.
Yea, im a saint. I'm just not all about me, like these market folks it seems. The market doesn't set a reasonable price, like i said. The playerbase buys at what the big ballers sets the price to. They have no choice. I do. I farm everyday. I don't team often at all. I pl my toons, and farm ae tix and pi for drops with my accounts.
If the drop rates were high enough that players actually had a chance to get what they want, you'd see. You wouldn't see people bidding 200mil per recipe. You don't see them bidding it for the crap ones. Why? Cause they drop more than an elephant in a parade. Meaning they can't be as easily manipulated by big baller 'tards.
And someone called this a "constructive" thread. Buying up everything to jack the market up isnt productive. Oh, i guess you mean its productive to keep the rmt'ers in business. I know 2 people has told me that they buy inf in the past week. Good job guys. -
So you've got examples of forces from classic, high-school-level economics: decreases in supply and increases in demand. Either one causes an increase in price. Both cause a more dramatic increase.
Supply and demand has nothing to do with people that just wanna buy it up and resell it for higher prices. That just don't make good since to me, given that the supply is already low on certain pieces. All it's doing is hurting everyone because one day when u decide to IO a toon, you're gonna have to pay the same price the you helped drive the price up on. And i'm not refering to only purples, prices have increased 10x across the board on most recipes.
You can say it's because there's more inf, but what good is having more inf if it takes more inf to actually build a toon? Pointless if you ask me. It's like a circle. -
Greed has everything to di with it when someone says, "hmm, what if i buy it all and relist to a stupid price so MY pockets get phat". That's out and out greed for inf.
I don't have a problem with being broke. I run 3 accounts and farm alot. I have several toons IO'd with purples, 7.5's and everything else. I've made billions by selling at a lowball price and getting what people pay me. I have no need to try to buy it all from other people that may want it for their toons.
The market is a joke. It is really unproductive to have recipes only available through luck or other people. At some point, the devs need to realize the greed that is involved with "i have what you want, NOW PAY UP". To me, that's ridiculous.
And the players don't set the prices either, imo. If someone with a ton of inf pays an astronomical amout for an IO, that's cool. But when that price gets seen, then EVERYONE starts listing at that price in hopes of getting paid that amount, there's the inflation. It becomes the norm. There should be no last sells seen. Why else can someone not place a "reasonable" bid and get it? Why else have purples went from 30mil -300mil? The drop rate didn't decrease. Everyone seen what someone could afford and now everyone has to be able to afford it or they don't get what they want. Like i said, greed.
Can't we all just IO and get along? You pat my back, i pat yours. Na, not 'round here.
As far as my global friend that was complaining. He runs 3 accounts also. (where i got the idea) He IO's the crap out of his toons but when he seen the inflation lately, he said he wasn't gonna bother. 1 bill for 1 set is too much for him. I agree, hence the reason i hoard now. I craft and keep and if someone needs something, they can just ask me and i'll sell for 1/2 the market value if their build needs it. Same with salvage. I got 8 bins full of orange. If someone needs a piece, just holler. That's the kind of person i am. Can you compare? Doubtful.