dugfromthearth
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Posts
2012 -
Joined
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Quote:I'm going to guess magicOriginally Posted by Dark_Respite
What I want to know is how War Witch is helping to carry the casket when she's a GHOST. -
For my last post on this thread I will skip any analysis or comments and just list a rank order of usefulness to a team for non-IO, non-incarnate, characters not going after an AV or GM.
Controller
Defender
Corruptor
SoA Crab
SoA Fortunata
Mastermind
SoA Bane
SoA Night Widow
Dominator
Tanker
Brute
Blaster
Stalker (with new buffs)
Scrapper
Too build specific to rank:
Peacebringer
Warshade
and for the record, I play Tankers and Dominators -
I'm waiting for owl bear with the damage boost for DPS'ing
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I have only been on one DFB team with 8 people who got the Vahz badge
lots of DFB teams with 4 that got it -
Quote:they weren't the exact words used - but I didn't think you would nitpick exact wording.Originally Posted by Tyger42
That's nice, but, you know, those words weren't used.
And I'd say knowingly posting blatantly wrong information then playing victim when people tell you you're wrong falls under your little definition there nicely, thanks.
And you keep saying I am wrong, but post nothing substantive to show that I am. Your continued avoidance of substance simply convinces me further that I am right.
You have posted on this thread multiple times, you are not avoiding it. You have no reason not to post a substantive example of how I am wrong except that you do not have one. -
Quote:This.Originally Posted by Zombie Man
The movement stats for Ninja/Beast Run + Sprint with a Run SO + Swift with a Run SO is nearly identical to Coyote Travel. Purposely so.
But then again, Coyote toggles everything off making it inferior. That's something they had to do because of the lack of animations for the coyote. But they didn't add in anything to offset that, such as our plea to add Stealth to the power.
But then again, you're a coyote.
I find it annoying that ninja run and beast run are better than sprint. It changes what should be a thematic power for fun and turns it into a better than situation. Do I have my robot run like a ninja or beast, or do I use sprint for thematics and run slower?
thematic stuff should be for appearance only. -
I'm voting for Kodos
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moving off of Corrs, I found poison was fun with MM's.
The set is so active that it gave me a lot to do while my pets fought. -
dual blades - I really love the look, but most of the powers are bad and you end up using just a few. And you really have no tricks. You just cycle through a couple of chains. It is a mindless set
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Quote:yes, nitpicking exact wording like the difference between "not useful" and "useful".Originally Posted by Tyger42
Nitpicking exact wording. NO! You're not trolling at all!
as to your continue attacks on me:
"Trolling is defined as deliberately posting derogatory, inflammatory comments/threads in order to bait other users into responding. Trolling or accusing someone of being a troll is also a form of trolling and is not permitted." -
I definitely regard a series of arcs where one contact leads you to another as being a single storyline even if the story does not really continue.
And I see that as a bad thing when they change dramatically enough to change the flavor without being so different that they seem different storylines.
First Ward is the prime example of that. The whole survival of the little group of outcasts from the starting arcs is lost by the end. I'm still in First Ward, it seems to be the same storyline, but they just tossed out most of the "main characters".
I have the same issue with the WWD series, in that they seem unrelated to each other due to the differing villain groups and plots. They are tied only by a cutscene at the end. On the other hand, each is its own TF and I don't do them one after another usually, so I can see each as a standalone story. -
Quote:Yes, this is clearly not a personal attackOriginally Posted by Tyger42
Yeees. Disagreeing with you = "personal attacks" from people who "have no clue and are simply saying what they think they should say". Couldn't POSSIBLY be that you're, I don't know...WRONG.
Personal attacks are not a sign of confidence in your position, they are a sign of either childishness or knowing your position is wrong and trying to distract from that.Quote:Originally Posted by Tyger42
Wow. Made an idiot of yourself on the first one! Good job!
I assume that the posters on this board are not childish, I therefore assume that every personal attack or other content free comment is an acknowledgement that I am right and the poster simply does not want to admit it. -
Quote:Honestly, you lost all credibility when you claimed that I said VEATS are next to worthless. I said nothing like that.Originally Posted by Dark Energon
But, with all honesty, u lost all credibility when u opened with VEATs being next to worthless. Come join us on an all VEAT ITF. Widows, banes, Fortunatas, Night Widows, Crabs and even Hunstman.. either combination of those, and a full team.. will be one hell of a ride.
I can quote the OP for Arachnos Soldiers and Widows "So you are useful"
Now did you conclude that "you are useful" equates to "next to worthless" or did you simply not read the post? -
Quote:yes, and if low=none then your conclusion would be correctOriginally Posted by Bad_Influence
Well, at least 3/4 of your original list had "Desireability low" right after the AT designation: if a thing is not desireable, I have this odd idea that it might not be really welcome on a team. That seemed to be what you were saying.
but low/=none
Now I can see a problem in that I did not list choosing no one as an option for desirability comparison. So a scrapper is less desirable than a defender on a team, but I did not list "non one" as not desirable - indicating that a scrapper would be more desirable than not having a full team.
In my defense, I was listing AT's and their comparative desirability on teams, not the desirability of having a player on the team at all.
I'm confused by your post on a few counts.Quote:Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Wrong on the first part, right on the second. Desirability is subjective- I don't think it's fair to make a general assessment about an Archetype as a whole because personal capabilities/build/familiarity with content are all equally contributing to the overall notion of "usefulness."
I can certainly tell you that on Minds of Mayhem, my Warshade is out-DPSing all the dead Scrappers and Blasters who were too busy pre-queing their attacks to think while they play, avoid the environmental damage, and stay alive. I can also tell you that I'm more useful than the folks who die at the end of Keyes Island during a badge run, while I'm teleporting held leaguemates out of the Obliteration Beam.
When it comes to non-end game content, Warshades can essentially solo everything, so any argument for uselessness is null and void. My Warshade, and many other Warshades, can solo level 53-54 AV's without temps or Lore pets. We've also been known to solo the hardest enemy groups in the game on 54x8, so there's no logical grounds for dismissing our damage output or survivability.
When it comes to usefulness on teams... If DPS, AOE, and off-tank isn't enough, we can also permanently stun entire even-con spawns at a time (the only time I can't do this on teams is during Incarnate trials, and those enemies have insane mez protection.)
In a nutshell, I'm sensing that the OP is misinformed/ignorant of the capabilities of my preferred AT, which is leading to a misdiagnosis of "usefulness." I'll let others speak in defense of their AT/sets of choice, but this is my two cents.
1. you mention non-end game content and then discuss 53-54 AV's, Incarnate trials, 54x8, etc. That strikes me as end game content.
2. I'm not sure how I am misdiagnosing the usefulness of "varies". It is so vague as to be pretty much guaranteed to be true. Some warshades can DPS, some can Tank, some can do both. Depending on how which forms you use, your usefulness to a team varies.
Lastly, I agree that desirability is subjective. You may have noted that it does not always match usefulness. I would just ask how many times you have seen someone broadcast that they are looking for a warshade for their team. -
In the same sense, there are hardly ever teams in the Hollows or Faultline. It is not because the content is bad, it is because the majority of players are in Steel and those looking for teams go where the other players are.
it is a vicious circle
There are not enough players in Praetoria to make teams
Since that is the case, those interested in teaming do not go there -
I just cannot tell a warrior rank apart by looking at them, especially in a fight.
I have a hard time with hellions as well - the masks are hard to see amidst all of the goings on.
Whereas skulls are a bit more distinct with the black jacket instead of white.
I can sort of see council and sky raiders as military groups not wanting their leaders to stand out - but in a comic book world it seems like they should.
I remember the first time I saw a totem spawn amidst the banished pantheon and thought it was awesome, same with the masks.
Should the bosses for each group be cool? Or should they be sensible? -
Quote:yeah, nothing makes me want to play my tankers more than playing on a team with a bad one.Originally Posted by Vox Populi
You need more Tanks!
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Another mission on a team where I didn't even notice the named boss at the end. They are no tougher than any other boss and don't stand out unless you happen to click on them.
It is always a let down when on a mission to take out Boss X and the mission suddenly ends and I realize he was somewhere in the mass and didn't even register as a speedbump.
EB's are not that much tougher than bosses that a 4+ team or others would have trouble with them. It just seems like it would be more satisfying.
But there is the risk of villain inflation - if EB's appear in normal missions, than EB's are no longer special in their own missions and maybe those need to be raised to AV, and then AV's need to be made tougher, etc. -
Quote:It has been a long time since I played a stalker (my most recent stalkerish was a Night Widow, not a real stalker). I have looked into their primaries again and they do get a lot of AoE with certain sets like electric - the same as brutes and scrappers.Originally Posted by BrandX
I see so much wrong with you post (OP). But let's field one that stands out to me as it's become my main as of late, and looks to be improved in i22.
Stalkers bring AOE.
Certain sets accessable by Stalkers lack AOE.
You are correct, stalkers bring AOE. I have edited the OP to correct this. -
Quote:I love Crabs. I think SoA's are amazing, having finally gotten around to trying them. I am amazed they are not more popular.Originally Posted by Dark Energon
Buffs that people not recognize?
Dual leadership pools aka, dual Tactic, dual Damage buff and dual Maneuvers.
Yeah, so not useful.. LMAO.
Oh, don't forget about Venom Grenade, Suppression, Longfang, Channel Gun, Arm Lash and Omega Maneuver. Most of the Crab powers debuff defense.
Come to Guardian server, join an Incarnate trial with a Crab named Nephila, you'll change your view.
But then I also realize that the leadership buffs are amazing - and the simple fact is that the vast majority of players do not. If people realized how great they were, every team above low levels would have at least maneuvers from every character.
even with the low buff that's almost +20% def for everyone with no enhancements.
SoA buffs and leadership buffs are amazing. But most players are not really aware of them or how good they are. -
Quote:Because aggro management is a nice to have.Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
That's exactly what stood out to me the most... Brutes do aggro management almost as well as Tanks do, so why is Brute lumped in with Scrapper as "only" a damage dealer?
In fact, that's the main reason I like playing Brutes more than Scrappers: thanks to Pokevoke in the primaries and taunt auras in the secondaries, opponents are far less likely to run away.
I listed tankers as high desirability - teams want them, but medium usefulness - they are not all that helpful.
Brutes survivability is far lower, unless buffed. The real value there is the buffers, not the brute.
In a more nuanced system I would but brutes above scrappers, but the difference just is not that great. -
Quote:According to this list all AT's are desirable, some moreso than others.Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
According to this list the only desireable AT on a team is/are Controllers. Can't say that I agree.
According to this list Controllers, Corruptors, Defenders, and Tankers are all the most highly desired.
Unless you are responding to a different post, which would actually explain a lot of the responses. -
While it is nice to get a lot of responses, it is clear by the large number of personal attacks and lack of specificity that most responders have no clue and are simply saying what they think they should say. Every character is a unique and precious snowflake. Every AT is awesome. All AT's are equal.
Of course that is simply stupid, and pretending that it is so does not make you wise or knowledgeable.
There is no way that a scrapper is as useful on a team as a defender or corruptor, unless the defender or cor are incredibly incompetent. I know scrappers do not like to hear that. They like to think that everyone is thrilled when a scrapper joins the team, but in fact they are just filler.
If you disagree with me, list in order the usefulness of AT's on a team. If you say they are all equally useful, you are either delusional or lying. -
Quote:You misunderstand, which is no doubt my fault.Originally Posted by MisterD
Ahhhh Damage..that thing EVERYONE does (genius observation that one) but no team actually needs. Odd considering..ever tried killing something with heals? With controls? With taunts?
Also sounds like you really need some more experience with blast sets other than fire/archery. Dp and Ar will do just as much aoe as them.
And..ALL controls have heals and buffs? I guess Ta doesnt count..
Of course every team needs damage, but every AT has it. If you have a team of 8 different AT's you have a team with 8 characters that do damage.
It is incredibly rare that anyone asks for or even considers that they need more damage on a team. It is just there.
I should also point out that desirability low does not mean that no one will play with them, but that no one asks for them or is excited to get them. No one ever says "great, we got a scrapper on the team" and means it. They will play with a scrapper on the team, but they were not wanting one. -
Quote:I am going off their buffed version in test, not their current live state. It is very different.Originally Posted by Necrotron_RO
False. Dominators, Brutes, and Scrappers often bring more single target sustainable damage versus AVs. Also, any AT with a force multiplication effect (buff/debuff) is vastly superior to a Stalker versus AVs.
The only usefulness I really see Stalkers thriving at is taking out a single leuitenant pre-alpha from the mob. They cannot AS and outright kill a boss (although a Dominator in domination mode can hold them). I really hope they get a superior buff in this current reworking of them to make up for their shortcomings.
I would like to see them become even better assassins to this effect, with vastly superior single target damage to everything else. They should really hit bosses, elite bosses, and AVs hard. But as fun as they are in their current state, I doubt they will ever see AT parity with Brutes, Corrs, or Defenders.