baron_inferno

Way to take what I said and interpret it into something over the top. Do explain to me how ridding yourself of your inconvenience/problems by handing them off to others (not to mention *expecting* them to be compliant without protest) is actually reasonable and logical? Both sides are making/denying requests for apparent selfish reasons (a point I've already conceded) so show me your logic behind determining which side is more right. Let's not even mention the ridiculous expectations behind asking *everyone*, potentially 20-50 people, in a single Pocket D instance to turn off their toggles. Let's say if only half of those people refuse to comply, and that's being very optimistic, this whole exercise becomes absolutely pointless and strictly academic. It's just begging for needless confrontations when there are other perfectly reasonable (and easier) alternative solutions available.

Secondly, who are you to determine what is considered to be a "minor" inconvenience to me and what isn't? I have 27 characters on 2 accounts, all of them have toggles of some sort. So me having to write "macros" for all of them based on the off chance that someone might ask me to turn them off one day is only a minor inconvenience? Do I have "Hi, I have TONS of free time to devote to pointless remedies for potential issues that will probably never pop up" stamped on my forehead? Did you even think out your the logic behind your argument before you hit the submit reply button? In anycase, I have already mentioned before that bringing that sort of commentary into this discussion would be getting perilously close to passing off opinions as facts. Yet here you are, doing that very thing. I'm sorry if I sound more combative in this post but this kind of obtuse non-sense is seriously getting on my nerves.

Then you would very much have a reason to complain and petition if they don't stop. I know I have petitioned some Thermal jerk at the BM when they kept spamming PBAoE heals and putting Shields on everyone. I never doubted that griefers do exist or claimed that you don't have a right to petition them. I'm just saying to universally ask everyone to turn off their toggles is somewhat unreasonable, especially when there are other plausible options available to you as I have mentioned above. That's all I'm saying.

Take note that I did say your *teammates* and not random people. In fact, I did specifically say that buffing random people for no reason *can* be considered to be griefing. In anycase, sometimes just before a trial run is started (such as people are waiting for queuing window to pop up), people do start casting buffs on their teammates. SB, Cold Shield, etc. This is especially true for Lambda trial because there is no cut scene at the beginning and people tend to start killing as soon as enough people load in.

Might I offer an alternate solution then? If my assumption is correct, graphical lag only happens when you're within direct line of sight of the cause. There are certain areas of Pocket D where direct line of sight to the dance floor is blocked. The area next to the ski chalet door on the upper floor for example. If you believe it's reasonable for you ask people to toggle off their powers, as a counter-argument to that, it is also reasonable for others to ask you to relocate to certain areas out of line of sight to alleviate the issue, assuming you want to stay in Pocket D.

Let's also look at this from a probability point of view.

A. Asking 20-40 people on the dance floor to turn off their toggle powers.
B. Getting your group of folks to move 100 feet to an area away from the dance floor.

I personally think option B would win out every time.

The 30 seconds was just an estimate. Realistically speaking, on my DA brute (the one I'm taking through the trials right now), it probably takes a little longer than 30 seconds. Also keep in mind that this is for *every* trial and I run quite a few each night. The average BAF run only lasts 15-20 minutes these days and I have to spend 3-5% of that time sitting on my bum? As for your comparison with MM, I don't think that's really valid. Having to spend time summoning pets is an established expection for MMs. It comes with the AT. Being defeated is one thing but having to toggle powers on and off for no apparent reason isn't one of the requirements for Brutes/Scrappers/Tankers/Stalkers.

You also are forgetting the fact that while I'm sitting at the beginning at the mission toggling all my powers on, others with less toggles have most likely engaged the mobs already. Since I'm not doing any damage, that could very realistically end up with my group taking a smaller share of the iexp/thread drops at the current league reward format. Yes, people do rush into mobs that fast on trials. Many people even start on the next group before the current one is even finished.

Lastly, let's not get into the discussion of trying to determine whose expectation of "reasonableness" or "consideration" is more correct. That's perilously close to passing off opinion as facts.

Okay full stop. Before you continue your callous use of the "griefer" accusation, let me pose these following points to you.

1. Am I abusing the game mechanic by using my toggle powers? No. As I've already said, I'm using the toggle powers within it's original perscribed parameter. If you refute this, please explain the "proper" way to use toggle powers to us.

2. Am I spamming someone else with unwanted powers? Debatable because PBAoE toggle powers tend to have that unavoidable side affect. However, this is not the same as auto-casting unwanted PBAoE heals or spamming someone with Flame Shield. Those are what I consider to be actual griefing attempts if they refuse to stop.

3. Let's expand this beyond the use of toggle powers. Would you ask people to not pre-buff their teammates just prior to starting a trial? That causes graphical burden as well, sometimes even more so. What if people just finished a trial and exited into Pocket D with a plathora of buffs on them? Sometimes those buffs last for 4 minutes and they can't just toggle them off. What happens then? Would you ask them "politely" to leave the zone or hide in a corner away from you? If they refuse, petition!

4. Am I somehow obligated to bow to your every request? If you feel that my posts are detrimental to your enjoyment of the forums, should I stop posting per your request? If I'm running through a mission at too fast a pace to let you take in all the scenery, should I slow down to a snails pace just to appease you? Asking "politely" doesn't automatically equate to being reasonable.

5. You don't think that asking others to be considerate to your needs without recourse is hypocrisy? What happens to their convenience? You don't think it's a hassle to have to turn their toggles on and off for every, single, trial? Just what makes you believe that your convenience trumps theirs?

I'm sorry but the self-centeredness in your posts are rearing its ugly head. Now I'm not saying my reasons for not wanting to turn off toggle powers aren't selfish but again, it's not my fault that your computer can't handle the graphical burden. For you to try to place that burden onto my shoulders is absurd.

So I should inconvenience myself by wasting 30 seconds per trial toggling powers on and off or risk being petitioned? This despite the fact that I'm using my toggle powers in a fashion that is consistant with its original intended purpose. Yeah, I'm glad that your convenience supercedes my convenience. It's almost as if it's my fault that your machine can't handle the graphical burden.

The moment you back your requests for others to be considerate of your needs with actual threats, it ceases being reasonable. It's flat out intimidation with no logical basis and reeks of selfishness. Thanks but no thanks.

I don't know. If your hot wife is willing to leave you for someone else, you just might be better off without her. Besides, if you are able to get a hot wife in the first place, why not just get another one. An upgrade if you will.

It doesn't. Usually 4-5 people is enough. Often times I would see a couple of the ambush team members go help out the AV killing teams and end up with a share of the iexp there as well. Conversely, the AV killing teams could send one of their members to help with ambushes to get a share of that iexp of course but this just overly complicates the whole raid setup and is completely unnecessary in my opinion.

Well, personally I think it could also due to the fact that are a lot of people out there who would list their Tank/Brute/Scraps as their favorite characters to play. That is the case for me at least with my Doms/VEATs tied for 2nd place. It would make sense for people to prioritize their *favorites* on top of the incarnate to do list. If we take a look at the AT & Powers section of the forums, you would notice that the 3 most active sub-forums are Scrappers, Brutes and Tankers. Just a passing thought.

That's going to be the name of my next new character. Thanks for the inspiration.

On second thought, it's probably already taken. Salty Twins it is.

Well see, I have 18 level 50s and 4 lowbies on my main account and 5 level 50s on my second account. With my 50s (comprising the vast majority of my characters), the other contents I enjoy are red side SFs which coincidentally, all have cut scenes. And I have seen them all about 20+ times as well, particularly ITF, LGTF, BSF and LRSF. If I want to avoid repetitive cut scenes, all I have left are regular arcs, papers, AEs. None of those choices really appeal to me anymore since I don't need to outfit my characters more. Frankly, I only look at regular content only as a necessary evil to get new projects to 50 at this point. Of course I could just take some time away from the game which I do and quite regularly. Perhaps a little more than half a dozen 1-3 months breaks since I started CoV nearly 4 years ago.

Ironically, I do have a rather high tolerance for doing repetitive content. Such is the byproduct of playing several MMOs during the past decade. Now I'm not tired of the new trials *yet* but I haven seen them enough to want to run through each of them as quickly as possible. The cut scenes are not helping in that department. So yeah, if I am complaining about a part of the game being too repetitive, that's saying something.

Hmm well, there's only one way to find out for sure. I'm going to have to ask her for a close up examination. I am however fearful that due to her penchant for referring to herself as "mother", I might end up with some rather severe psychological scarring from the whole experience.