Wrong_Number
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Quote:You can believe anything you want and use it as it was intended, but that won't change the fact that it's not working as intended. That said, it's your right to rate as you see fit, though the net effect of which can be seen by looking at the first few pages of player rated arcs. The people who write farms do a much better job of promoting the arcs they enjoy. Is that "gaming the system" or just rewarding/promoting what they want to see more of in MA?Originally Posted by PoliceWoman
It's my belief that the rating system should be used as intended: to rate the quality of an arc based on a 1 to 5 scale.
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Quote:The point, at least for me, is to have as many people enjoy them as possible. Since I have no control over DC and it's totally subjective anyways, the rating system, though very broken, matters for now.Originally Posted by Demonic_Gerbil
But with all the "forum posters playing each others arcs and recommending them to the devs" that goes on, there's really no need for anyone else to play those arcs for that purpose, is there?
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Quote:In order to get a DC someone, usually more than one someone, needs to play the arc and recommend it for DC in the first place.Originally Posted by Demonic_Gerbil
But story arcs are pretty easy to find. You just have to search for Dev's Choice and bam! there's a whole bunch of them waiting for you.
¬_¬
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Quote:I don't think anyone is saying it is.Originally Posted by Crysys
^^ Since when does a 1-star rating automatically equate to griefing and/or harassment?
No, a sincere rating is not the issue, but if say all 8 of your arcs are rated 1 star many times each in a very short time (overnight, say), that seems pretty clear that is harassment, griefing or whatever you want to call it. That's what people are talking about.Quote:If someone sincerely ranks you 1-star because the game is asking for them to register their vote/opinion after finishing/quitting an arc, they register it via a single-star, you are going to report them for having an opinion you don't like and call that harassment?
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Quote:Originally Posted by Freitag
Hello everyone!
Today I hopped on Freedom, and alongside some cheerful Freedomites, we ran "A Hero in Need... is a Friend Indeed!" (Arc #375018, by @Wrong Number!) In this arc, we assisted Statesman, who has mysteriously lost his powers (Bet you wouldn't want his enemies to find out about that! Or ... maybe you would?) and is relying on YOU to help him get them back! What could make Statesman lose his powers? Well, you'll just have to find out for yourself! What are you waiting for! The arc has everything, neat custom NPC's, well-chosen maps, and more!
Thanks to everyone that took the time to play the arc. For anyone interested, I have a list of little hints from missions 1-3 that point to the bigger story that's going on. If you want a copy just PM me. Teasers: The first hint is given before you even talk to the contact the first time and one of the clues in mission four spells a secret message if you take the first letter of each line and put it together.
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Quote:You are missing a critical point: anything less than a 5 greatly reduces the chance of an arc getting played. An arc rated 2 or 3 stars does not get any more plays than one rated 1 star (zero) and 4 stars is not much better. Only a 5 star arc and one with a reasonable number of plays under it's belt, will get regular plays.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I really think this notion that the ratings system is "unbalanced" is misplaced. .
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While you are still low level might I suggest mt arc:
A Hero in Need...is a Friend Indeed! #375018
It's intended for level 5-14.
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To more clearly show the math of and how unbalanced it is, here is an example arc that starts off by getting a 1 star play and then 7 5 star plays after that. The rating is shown as each rating is applied.
1) 1 = 1 Star
2) 5 = 3 Stars
3) 5 = 3.66 (4 stars)
4) 5 = 4.00 Stars
5) 5 = 4.20 Stars
6) 5 = 4.33 Stars
7) 5 = 4.42 Stars
8) 5 = 4.5 (5 Stars)
So thats seven 5 star rates to just get to 5 stars, but its worse than that because any ratings other than a 5 will bring it right down again. To continue the example:
9) 4 = 4.44 Stars (rounds to 4 stars)
As others have pointed out, this combined with the less than perfect search system means that for the most part only 5 star arcs that have a decent number of plays already get more than the rare play. The above example should illustrate how easily one person can damage an arcs rating.
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Quote:Read though the "Can I Cry now Thread". I personally got SIX 1 star ratings to all EIGHT of my arcs in one 24 hour period. Overnight they got four each and another two at some point during the day. That's 48 1 stars. Again, all arcs, even the four star ones that I don't think had gotten eight plays total in the last year. This happened to several people (though most of them "only" got four 1 stars per arc) So you tell me, does that sound purposeful to you?Originally Posted by Twoflower
Are other authors seeing a rash of 1-stars and negative reviews? Is this an actual problem out there?
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Edit: As Fred correctly points out they could be 1 or 2 star rates since there is no way to tell though you would think that if someone invested all that time they would logically be 1 stars. -
Congrats on your second Dev's Choice. Always good seeing deserving author's being recognized for their work.
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Quote:I have eight arcs. Each received five plays with one star rates. 8 x 5 = 40 1 star playsOriginally Posted by Giant2005
You have been hit 40 times now? Wow that is way over the top.
I'm not saying 1 starring a farm is going to have any meaningful impact btw, I am saying the sentiment sucks.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Giant2005
Sorry I wasn't attacking you, I actually did check who was involved with that thread in a negative way against those who posted here claiming to be victims and I do agree you seem a lot more fair than the majority.
My point is, people are attacking the farmers indiscriminately and they seem to be returning in kind. I certainly believe you of all people don;t deserve this treatment considering you seem to be treating people fairly but I am also quite sure a lot of Farmers are being treated worse than they deserve also.
I guess I don't understand what attacking the farmers means since I can't see how someone saying they don't like farms or for that matter they would 1 star farms in any way impacts farmers. On the other hand, even though I've done neither of these things someone took the time to down rate my arcs 40 times which directly does impact me and my enjoyment of this game.
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Quote:I looked at the thread and nowhere in it (or any other thread for that matter) do I express an opinion for or against farms. I make no comment that "farms should be 1 stared!" or anything even remotely like that. In fact, my only comment was to explain the math involved in the rating system. If the point was to "attack the people who are against farms" they missed the mark because I don't care if people farm, I'd just like to separate them and the story arcs so both sides are equally served. though, I don't think I've even expressed this before now, so why the attack on me? Is it just people that are visible in the MA story community maybe regardless of their views? That seems like a way to make enemies from possible friends or at least people that don't care one way or the other.Originally Posted by Giant2005
Disclaimer: I am in no way condoning the prejudice acts of the few who think 1 starring something without cause is the proper way to act.
I think the forum issues being referred to is the fact that generally, there is an extreme amount of hate thrown in the direction of Farmers by most (not all) of the people who frequent this Forum. The main cause of this hate is the simple fact that the Farms are more successful than the Story Arcs.
Take a look at this thread: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...hlight=ethical it seems the majority of those who frequent these forums think 1-starring arcs without any genuine knowledge of that arc is perfectly fine.
I am not trying to use this as some kind of justification for 1 starring your arcs because there is no justification - those who want to downgrade other's arcs out of prejudice are nothing short of Pancakey Pancakes. But I can certainly understand why they would want to fight back.
Whether you can admit it or not, Farmers and Farmees are easily the most persecuted group in this game.
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Quote:I'm not certain what you mean by this statement? Do you mean you this it was done because of something some people have said? Personally, I've been mostly absent from the game for several months due to some RL reasons and don't think I've said or done anything that could be seen as negative towards someone or even something, but who knows?Originally Posted by plainguy
Does anyone ever think that maybe some are getting 1 star because of forum issues instead ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeHVY...eature=related
All eight of my arcs each got five 1 star plays in a single 24 hour period. That's 40 individual "plays". Half were 5 stars and the others 4 stars, so it's not like they went for just the most successful ones. I guess whoever did it didn't count on some of us tracking play numbers and it's a lucky thing that some of us do. In any case, it's certainly clear I was one of the people targeted with malice, but I have no idea why.
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EDIT: I Checked this morning and it's actually 5 plays each arc, all 1 star ratings. I'm not certain if I miscounted yesterday or they all got hit for another 1 star rate. -
Quote:The difference is that when an arc drops from 5 stars to anything less it's chance of being played virtually evaporates. If an arc is at 1 star to start with a 5 brings it up to a 3 which frankly is no better or worse than a 1 star when it comes to getting plays.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I can understand the issue with drive-by one-stars, but to say that the system is flawed because its difficult to retain a perfect score is sort of missing the point of a ratings system. The system isn't "weighted" towards lower scores; it takes just as few 5-stars to undo a ton of 1-stars as it does 1-stars to undo a ton of 5-stars
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Quote:This will never work as long as the rating system stands as it does now. It's simple math.Originally Posted by PoliceWoman
In the long run, it's my hope that story enthusiasts that play story-oriented arcs will give positive ratings that will even things out via the power of democracy.
31 plays on an arc
27 5 Star Rates
04 1 star Rates
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31 Total
27x5 = 135 Stars
04x1 = 04 Stars
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139 Stars Total
139/31 = 4.48 which rounds down to a 4 Star Rating
So, you need 28 5 star rates just to bring the rating back to 4.5 which is certainly a precarious place to be since even a 4 star at that point drops you back down to 4 stars.
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Quote:Confirmed 4 plays with 4 1 star rates to all of their arcs last night:Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I just checked, and both of my arcs have received four more "plays" with no tickets. Oh yeah, that's just coincidence, people really think our arcs suck, and ratings griefing doesn't happen.
Wrong Number
Eva Destruction
Jail.bird
PW
Bubbawheat
FredrickSvanberg
That's around 30 arcs.
I also think the person that started this thread got hit too.
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Last night All EIGHT of my arcs were griefed and each received FIVE 1 star ratings. This pushed almost all of them that weren't already down to four stars.
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I had checked just before all the servers went down. I just got back in and:
All EIGHT of my arcs received FOUR 1 star ratings last night
This pushed almost all of them to 4 stars. Clearly griefing.
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Quote:Anyone who enjoys writing story arcs should be punished because a few people who enjoy them don't like farms? Exactly, who have I, for example, insulted or what done to warrant an attack? What fight have I tried to pick? Please enlighten me.Originally Posted by Demonic_Gerbil
Maybe one got tired tired of being constantly insulted and told that they're going to get bored and leave in a week (constantly, since the AE system came out, even) and their dollars aren't worth as much as TonyV's, for example. When someone keeps trying to pick a fight, eventually they'll get punched by someone.
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Quote:Any experienced author could bang out a "great" farm in under 30 minutes simply because they are familiar with the MA system.Originally Posted by Giant2005
Designing the perfect farm is far more complicated than people seem to realize. I have seen far more failures than successes.
The above statement proves the point that even poor quality farms are rated better than the best player written arc in the system.Quote:Most of the higher rated farms are absolutely terrible but they get their credit anyway.
It's not "paranoia". As I said earlier, if it's intention griefing or just a culture of "1 star arcs that do not grant farm level rewards", it doesn't really matter since the end result is the same. Something you are overlooking is that a single 1 star rating cancels out over seven 5 star ratings. My arc, in effect, lost over 28 5 star rates in one shot. The systems is broken and more heavily weights lover ratings. Since the culture for farms is 5 stars = thanks to the author vs. rate the story arc depending on how good you think it is, story arcs will disappear in time anyways from the first few pages. This is just accelerating the process.Quote:To be honest, I think this conspiracy you guys seem to be unravelling about Farmers downgrading your arcs intentionally is nothing more than paranoia. Farmers don't care about your Arcs one bit.
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Quote:I know you are trying to be positive and cheer me up (it's appreciated), but having been with MA since beta and having arcs fall from a low numbered page to obscurity before, it unfortunately is the case. For example, "Old Dog, New Trick' was getting several plays a month until it fell to 4 stars after a double 1 star hit. Since then, several months ago now, it's not received a single play.Originally Posted by Giant2005
This isn't true.
Regardless of how they are ordered in AE, if I want to find a farm I will find one rather easily. If I want to find a story, I can find one of those rather easily also. It might not be your arc I find but I will find something.
As long as people keep making stories, they will be played as long as someone wants to play them. Regardless of how dominant farms are, stories can still be found.
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Today this arc, along with my other page 4 arc, was greifed with FOUR 1 star ratings pushing out of the 5 star range for the first time since it was published. Since four 1 star rates erase over 28 5 star ratings (I would need 28 new 5 star ratings just to average 4.5), the arc has been effectively killed.
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This morning both of my arcs on page 4, a couple of the last story arcs listed reasonable high, received FOUR 1 star ratings each. This pushed one of them down to four stars for the first time since it was published.
Either a concerted griefing effort is being made to wipe all story arcs from the top of the list or it's becoming standard operating procedure to 1 star arc that don't grant farm level rewards. In either case, something needs to be done, because if things are left as they are I don't see MA surviving as anything other than a farming tool.
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People can insist that they are just "using the rating system as it was intended to be used" and while I can't argue that, it doesn't change how the system actually works. We see this very clearly now looking at HoF and the first few pages of top rated arcs. Put another way, if I'm driving in my car at 25mph and hit my breaks to stop when I get to my destination and the brakes fail to work as intended, do I just step out of the car going 25mph or do I maybe take a different action?
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