Wrong_Number
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Quote:Originally Posted by Clave_Dark_5
So, out of curiosity, has anyone thought to PM Dr. Aeon about this thread and/or its topic? I know he might be reading it, but it couldn't hurt if no one has yet.
I haven't, but am pretty sure he follows the forums and it would be nice to hear his thoughts. Having been in a position in the past where you have to deal with a fan base I try to give him the peace I rarely got
To summarize where I think we are:
- The consensus is that the current Hall of Fame requirements are set way beyond what is reasonably achievable. Only 7 arcs have reached it at the current level and all of those were published within 10 days of MA's release.
- The arc has the most plays, is rated 5 stars and was published post I15 will take over 7 years at the current play rate to make Hall of Fame at the level it is set to currently.
- Lowering the requirements to 100 plays 5 stars would instantly grant HoF status to 12 arcs. 11 of these were published pre-I15 so even this change, while a good step in the right direction, larger changes need to be made though these are long term goals.
- Out of the 27,600 plus arc published and in the system since I15 was released only 12 story arcs have received over 100 plays, that's .0004347 of arcs. The arc that has the most plays is at 265 plays and rated 4 stars. The 5 star with the most plays has 165. A detailed breakdown of the data can be seen here.
Hall of Fame, being the only other way other than DC for a player to be granted an additional arc slot should be reduced. The change of reducing the HoF requirements from 1000 plays 5 stars to 100 plays 5 stars can be quickly implemented and would be a step in the right direction. Obviously, additional changes to improve MA and to draw in more players to it are desirable and should be looked at separately from this issue.
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Thanks for all the work you put in doing this series of reviews. It was very entertaining and fun to follow!
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Quote:Originally Posted by PoliceWoman
As a point of fact, I believe you are omitting Guest Author and Dev Choice arcs published since I15 from your statistics, which is skewing your results.
My feeling is that a disproportionate number of arc plays go to the arcs on the "front page" of the MA interface, mostly because that's where casual players look first.
Skewing the statistics how? Neither guest author arcs nor DC are eligible for HoF, which is the entire point of the discussion and the data.
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Flea got me thinking so I went all the way back starting from 6/29/09, which was the day I15 went live, through to 4/30/10 to see the actual number of arcs that have gotten over 100 plays.
The breakdown is by month published. (F) = Farms (all defunct btw) and (S) = Story.
2009
July---------- 24 (F) - 7 (S)
August------ 15 (F) - 0 (S)
September- 5 (F) -- 0 (S)
October----- 1 (F) -- 1 (S)
November-- 3 (F) -- 2 (S)
December--- 6 (F) --1 (S)
2010
January----- 7 (F) -- 0 (S)
February---- 4 (F) -- 1 (S)
March-------- 6 (F) -- 0 (S)
April---------- 0 (F) -- 0 (S)
Some Factoids
- During this time period approximately 27,600 arcs were published that still exist in the system.
- Excluding the defunct farms, out of 27,600 arcs 12 reached 100+ plays or .0004347% of the arcs published.
- Of the 12 arcs to reach 100+ plays during that time 10 are currently rated 4 stars and 2 are rated 5 stars.
- The arc with 4 stars with the highest number of plays currently has 265 plays.
- The arc with 5 stars with the highest number of plays currently has 165 plays.
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Quote:Well, I need to correct myself too. There were 3 arcs since November 09 with over 100 plays and now with the new one reaching this level in the last few days there are 4. 2 are currently at 4 stars and 2 at 5 stars.Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
My apologies. I did read that a few days ago but thought that you only looked at 5 stars. My bad.
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Quote:As noted earlier every single HoF arc, including the most recent one was published within 10 days of MA's launch. Additionally, most HoF were awarded in those first few months pre-15. The only other arc remotely close is yours, which was also published during the first ten days of MA. Would those seven people really be furious if a correction was made now that the numbers can be looked at over the course of over a year?Originally Posted by PoliceWoman
Leaving that argument aside, however, I still think it would not be the correct choice to lower the current Hall of Fame standard from 1000 plays and 5 stars. It is self-evidently possible to achieve this standard -- after all, an arc just achieved Hall of Fame, which I believe spawned this entire discussion. So it is achievable, albeit very rare.
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Quote:You may have missed it earlier in the thread, but I did some research on arcs published since 11/1/09 to now. There are a grand total of 3 arcs in the last 7 months with over 100 plays and 2 of those are at 5 stars the other is at 4 currently. That's out of over 11,000 arcs. There are a couple old defunct farms with over 100 plays in there too. This I don't see as an issue since if they were exploit based they should not be in the system anyways.Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
I wonder how many arcs that are sitting below the radar with an average of 4 stars would jump to HOF status if the requirement were changed to 100 five star votes?
I'm not saying it would be good or bad to have some arcs fall into that category and gain HOF status. But I have no doubt that it will make some players upset that these formally 4 star arcs leapfrogged into HOF status. Especially if one or more of those were farming arcs.
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Quote:The only issue with making 100 5 stars (basically ignoring anything lower) is the other part of my initial post that's gotten glossed over. Arcs published before I15 have a GIANT advantage over arcs published after. I have not researched it, but would assume that 100's if not 1000's of arcs published pre-I15 would instantly meet this requirement just because of the volume of plays then.Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
I agree with Airhead's suggestion, Hall of Fame shouldn't be acquired from an average vote being in the 5 star range, but the total number of 5 star votes. 100 is probably a good number, though I haven't looked at some of the high play 4 star arcs recently to know if there's anything less than stellar. Though I suppose it wouldn't be that bad of a thing if a lot of great arcs became Hall of Fame along with a couple less than stellar ones. Heck, Wild Hogs grossed over 100 million, so there's no accounting for some people's taste.
This is clearly illustrated by the fact that 9 of the 10 (now 9 out of 11 since another arc hit over 100 plays 5 stars last week) are all from Pre-I15 and 7 of those were published in the first 2 weeks of MA launch.
100 5 stars regardless of other ratings for arcs post I-15 I would support, but if you include pre-15 stuff I feel it would be too skewed.
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Quote:It's worse than that. It takes 7 stars just to bring the average up to 4.5 which will round to 5, but even with those 7 stars just 1 4 star at that point drops it back to a 4 star.Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
The Hall of Fame requirements has two big problems.
One is that 5 stars is somewhat easy to get but almost impossible to maintain, since, as we have pointed out a billion times, a single 1-star rating for some reason carries a much greater importance than a single 5-star rating. One 1-star "weighs" as much as five 5-star ratings.
I think this is another workable idea that should be easy to execute. I do fairly regularly get replays, though I have no idea what arc(s) are getting them. It would be nice if they counted for something.Quote:The other problem is that an arc may be extremely beloved and have very dedicated fans but if it has 999 fans who play it religiously once a week for two thousand years, it will still never get a hall of fame ranking. A farm that someone made in 30 minutes and thousand people played once, 5-starred as a "gratuity" to the author, and then forgot about can make it into HoF in an afternoon.
Every completed play of an arc should count, even from the same account. That's the only way to really know how popular an arc really is. Of course this wouldn't include the author's account. Sure, someone might sit around and play their own arcs on their second and third accounts, but unless their arcs are good enough all it takes is a few (very few) people to rate below 5 stars and it will drop out of the Hall of Fame in no time.
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This morning I was thrilled to receive the following feedback along with my 100th play on this arc:
@Remianen: Feedback on Architect Mission A Hero in Need...is a Friend Indeed!: That was awesome! "Wow, you thought it was the car? Really?"
I wanted to note this mile post by thanking everyone who has played and who helped in creating the arc. I was very disappointed not to win, place or show in the challenge, but the reception and feedback I have gotten on this arc has made me proud to have created it. Thanks.
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What a cool resource, excellent! Thanks for putting it together and picking several of my arcs.
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Quote:Reminder! This is today!Originally Posted by Wrong_Number
The new Hero arc's were great and a good time was had by all. So....
What: Will be running the New Dev Villain Arc
When: Saturday May 15th Noon EST
Where: Meet at the contact in Sharkhead
Everyone is welcome.
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RD,
You may want to check out Bubbawheat's thread about Dr. Aeons Second Challenge arcs which were all 5-10 (though some go a little higher than 10 now). Here is a link.
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Quote:Two points. One, the plays need to be from separate 100 accounts and two, HoF unlike DC can be lost if enough people play it and find it unworthy. Also, though I'm not from a big SG, I assume many people that are have written arcs and yet there is a grand total of two written in the last 7 months (could be longer, that's how far back I checked) with over 100 plays (excluding old farms).Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
The only problem I have with 100 is that it's still low enough to be "gameable." A few popular people in a big SG could get that in a night.
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Quote:I have to mostly disagree and in fact I found almost the opposite to be true. For my current 5 stars 100+ plays arc at I did almost no advertising for of any type before it was at over 100 plays and then really only very select advertising. Also, I was away from CoX for an almost two month break. It was also released after I stopped doing reviews.Originally Posted by Dalghryn
Something else to keep in mind is the fact that most everyone that has created arcs with over 100 plays with a five star average have advertised the heck out of those arcs. Had the authors not created threads devoting their time to critiquing other arcs or spend innumerable hours hawking their arcs to these people and actively critiquing these people's arcs, most of the over-100-play arcs would likely be wallowing in limbo, too..
The no hard selling was an experiment on my part because in the past I had really "donned fur coats and twenty pounds of bling." What I found before was that by seeking reviews, plays, etc. I would often draw people to play an arc that maybe was not their cup of tea which resulted in all of my arcs settling at 4 stars. This time, beyond getting friendly MA authors and a few friends to play it (this got me to around 10 plays) I just let things happen organically. That way people who read the description and liked the idea of a Golden Age style comic book arc would play the arc before it got visible enough for the more general public to give it a shot just because it had 5 stars with a decent number of plays. A side benefit of this was that the feedback I got was all of the very helpful type and I was able to tweak things early on that really made the arc solid.
My feeling now is really you're best off taking the more organic route then hard selling.
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Quote:Eva is correct. The last rating you click will be the one that counts, however each time you click a rating it is applied. What that means is if you click 1 star by accident and then 5 stars the author will receive no tickets for your rating even though it is 5 stars. Some people like to "click up" to the rating which makes it a mystery to the author (along with getting no tickets).Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I do not believe this is true. The last rating you click should overwrite any previous ratings. The first rating counts for tickets awarded.
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Quote:I understand and agree that ideally increasing the pool of MA players to the level it was in April of last year (where all of the current Hall of Fame arcs are from) would be fantastic. However, that is a goal I see as very unlikely to be achieved in the reasonably near future, if ever. That's not to say things can't or won't pick up in time, but that seems like a long term goal (and a worthy one). On the other hand, removing a zero to change the HoF from 1000 to 100 would be a simple task that could be done and implemented in almost no time.Originally Posted by PoliceWoman
Personally, rather than asking that the devs lower the bar for the number of unique plays required, I would much prefer that the devs work on growing the pool of active MA players, by making story-oriented MA arcs something that players want to do, and are excited about. More people actively playing MA arcs would mean more arcs would get more plays, and more HoF arcs being crowned would naturally follow.
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Quote:My impressions were that originally they were meant to be more frequent than DC, however I agree with you that equal to would be about right, though I don't think that is even possible. As it stands now there are 34 DC arcs vs. 7 HoF.Originally Posted by Coulomb2
Or, another way to phrase the question independent of DC arcs would be what should be the average rate HoF arcs are appearing? One a month? Six a year? One a year?
This problem could be fixed, I think rather easily by dropping the last 0 off of 1000 reducing it to 100. That would give 12 arcs HoF (those outlined in my first post).
I know 100 just seems like a low number, but in looking through all the arcs in the last seven months since "Golden Age Secrets..." was published I found a few defunct farms and just one other legitimate arc (currently at 4 stars) that had over 100 plays. So that's 2 arcs out of the approximate 11,320+ published in that time (and one of the 2 would not currently qualify).
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I have been meaning to write something about the current Hall of Fame requirements and Quinch's arc (congratz again!) reaching it has finally motivated me to do it.
The current Hall of Fame requirements are ridiculously out of proportion considering the current level of plays arcs are receiving since I15 was released. Since there has been no mention of any changes happening at any time in the future I'm going with the assumption that no new revisions to it are currently planned in the near future.
Some data:
There are 7 HoF arcs. All were published between 4/8/09 and 4/18/09.
Currently there are only 12 out of tens of thousands of arcs with over 100 plays that have maintained a 5 star rating. Of those, 10 were published during 4/09, 1 in 5/09, 1 in 6/09 and 1 in 11/09. So 11 of 12 were published pre-I15.
The arc published in 11/09 in my arc The Golden Age Secret of the Paragon Society so I am very aware of number of plays it gets from week to week. Additionally, the arc closest is Teen Freedom Phalanx Forever! by PW who is a member of the MA Super Team and a person I am very friendly with so I tend to notice TFP! plays.
Paragon Society was published 7 months ago and in that time has received 161 plays. this is an average of 23 a month. Assuming the arc maintains it's rating and continues that average, which will never happen since 50% of the plays the arc got were in the first 2 months, it will still take over three years to achieve HoF.
Teen Freedom Phalanx Forever! is currently at 847 plays. The day I published Paragon Society, seven months ago, I noted that it had 778 plays. This means in the last 7 months it has received 69 plays. Rounding slightly up that is 10 plays per month on average. At that rate assuming it maintains it's rating it will take over 15 more months to reach HoF.
Applying that more realistic 10 plays per month to Paragon Society means about 84 months or 7 years to reach HoF.
In summary, it appears that any arc not published before I15 has no real chance of achieving Hall of Fame status. Seeing that this is the only way other than receiving a Developer's Choice that a player is granted another free arc slot I feel it needs to be adjusted to a more realistic and achievable goal.
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Wow congrats.
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Quote:Good question. The character is only 3 bubbles in so we should be good for the first story at least. After that I guess we need to play it by ear.Originally Posted by Zamuel
However, is it just the first mission or the whole arc? Just checking in case there's some weirdness where it starts the arc and then the contact decides to act like they don't know you. Furthermore, we may get through the first arc but would it give the second??
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Quote:I love this idea and feel it would be a godsend to MA. It removes the need for any great Dev monitoring and provides an simple way for authors to insure there arc don't end up on the MIA list. It also would help make 4 stars not the no play basement it is now.Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
How about this then: the arcs can still be found by searching for the author or ID, and the first time they are played (completed) after the purge they get unmarked and shows up in searches once again. That way anyone can "reinstate" an arc by simply looking it up and playing it. Admittedly a few arcs might be lost because nobody can remember its ID number or the author.
I also agree with Arrowrose and others that MA is at an extreme low point right now and do fear that bundling the fix with GR will be too little too late. As a matter of normal course AE arcs see sharp drops in plays each time a new issue is released for a week to maybe a month or so. With such a large addition to the game like GR I would expect at least a month of slow time. Combined with two plus months of slow time post patch may put MA in a place it can't bounce back from.
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I have a villain that is level 30. I just checked and the contact will still give me the mission so we are good to go.
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The new Hero arc's were great and a good time was had by all. So....
What: Will be running the New Dev Villain Arc
When: Saturday May 15th Noon EST
Where: Meet in the MA Super Team Villain Base
Everyone is welcome.
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Quote:Square's ville man.Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
I will be away from my computer but you guys have fun.
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