Wicked_Wendy

I agree Adeon And You may be right about most of those green names but I have seen a few that I knew were already members being unsilenced and I have seen some message traffic stating that SO n SO was silenced by Moderator ___________. It seems a little silly is all since I have rarely seen much conversation in the channel to begin with and even when its "Off Topic" it usually has something to do with a players build or something similar. But its their channel so what they want is fine as long as it continues to help me when i use it

Hey Forbin I happened to check in and see there is an issue on what can or can't be done while waiting in the queue. I am on line so I did a little experiment

it is possible while in the queue to access full screen menus

I typed in /respec and wound up in the RESPEC menu however when I clicked back out I had been dropped from the queue and had to re-enter

Then I tried the tailor, I am in the RWZ at the moment so this is all very easy, and again I was able to access the costume design menus but once again when I left I was not in the queue any longer

I think we are all aware that trying to run any sort of door mission isn't possible

I entered the queue again and tried to enter my SG. I did get inside but when I came back out again I had been removed from the queue. While I was inside the SG base the LFG tab was totally blank not showing anything at all but the message that I could not enter my SG or run missions while in the queue.

Then I tried zoning. I went to the portal in the RWZ and went to FF. I'd been removed from the queue. To test I re-entered the queue and zoned back into the RWZ. once again I'd been removed.

Then I hit the store and tried to enhance. Now this seemed to take a bit longer but that may simply be due to the number of people here in RWZ 1 right now but two times I opened up the window to view my enhancements and both times when I came back out for about 2-3 seconds it appeared like I was still in the queue and then the button went green again and I had to rejoin the queue.

Now to make certain any of these things were not pure chance I tried them all several times and the result was always the same. It's not that you can't access these screen while in queue but if you do essentially you are removed from the queue and now need to re-join and start all over waiting for an invite to join a trial

So for any and all interested that's the story. Once you click and join the queue don't plan to visit you base, enhance your character, or even travel from zone to zone or you lose your spot in queue and get to start all over again.. of course running anything but street hunts is out of the question and you can't even waste a little time tweeking your outfit.

Now I did an experiment the other day and joined the queue just to see how long I might need to wait to get an invite.. 20 minutes later I was still waiting and a league leader in the RWZ announced a 16 man BAF was forming. I left the queue and joined that league finally getting inside.

I'm not exactly sure what the Devs had hoped to accomplish with the queue but standing around in one spot unable to do much of anything for 20-30 minutes waiting to MAYBE get a team is not my idea of fun. Basically a lot of pre-planning better be done and all chores accomplished prior to joining or else every time you do anything that brings up a full screen menu it will kick you and you have to start all over again. Hope that helps anyone that wasn't sure

I belong to a group like that on Virtue Yunalesca. heheh to be honest at times I have to turn them off because they are chatting so much about everything that I miss some stuff and have to scroll back up to see what TF is forming on another or whatever but when i am just in base crafting etc. I enjoying seeing the banter.

Oh and Psylenz no I have all my character on Virtue so it is not any particular channel on triumph

While some players from Virtue may have guessed which channel I am referring to I prefer not to name it. The channel provides a very valuable service and as Zombie Man pointed out they created it and have the right to run it as they please.

It just strikes me as funny from time to time when I see 9 or 10 members being unsilenced and allowed to chat again. Almost seems like one mod has one set of standards and another has his or her set. The nightshift shift guy silences 10 players for not staying on topic. Then day shift guy comes in, shakes his head and mutters "Not again!" and opens everyone back up.

I like the comments I am seeing though obviously different people have different views of what is or isn't good moderating and guess what .. that's a right we all have here. headed back into the game for a while take care and have fun!

NO actually she isn't The funny thing is since he can't see what I post he has no clue .

Hello all to be perfectly honest I was pretty much done with this thread and moved on. I think my last few posts more than covered how I feel on this topic and from what i have read the past few days with only a very few exception most of you feel the same way.

I don't know if we will ever convince the Devs to give us a lock system. Personally I'd prefer if they just found a sloution to the lag and unless it was 2AM and a leader just flat out couldn't find anyone else to join almost every team out there would have 24 players heading into the BAF or 16 ot Lambda. One thing I think I can just about guarentee is this will never be the case....

There is no way the Devs will ever create a situation where we have absolutely no control over the teams we join. It hasn't happened in 7 years and the very fact that we can form teams prior to ever joining the queue illustrates nicely that while the devs did add a feature to help solo players find teams they still understood that many of us like to build our own teams.

Well I'm pretty much done here. I wasn't planning to even make this post but after a bit of thinking on the subject I felt I had to throw in one more. MR. GLOBE has seen fit to post at least two times mentioning my name after supposedly stating he was ignoring me and while that suits me fine I felt I needed to drop by one last time and post just so no one, including him, gets the idea that I have in some way conceded and he WON? Trust me my opinion on the matter stands and I'm quite happy with the situation. Since he no longer sees my post he can no longer respond to them so in my mind I lost nothing by aggrevation. Take care all and have fun here and in game

This is actually the case of the channel I refer to. It was created for a very specific purpose and I use it quite frequently for exactly that purpose. To be honest in game I don't spend a lot of time just "chatting" in any channel I am too busy running missions, looking for a task force or whatever. But on occasion if I see someone in any of the globals I belong to asking a legitimate question about something I will do my best to answer it for them. I have never even been given a warning in the channel I am referencing to the best of my knowledge unless someone asked a question I knew the answer to and I responded and we both got told Shhhhhhhh because that was not on topic. And if they did you can see how devastated I was I don't even remember it!

The players generally follow the "rules" and I can't recall every seeing any lengthy just completely silly or stupid chatter. The thing is unless they come here and post a set of guidelines for everything they expect and everything they don't want on their channel. How does anyone know what is right or wrong? There is the Message of the Day of course but that doesn't provide a lot of room to list a series of do's and don't.


I just know the DEVs will love me for even suggesting this but maybe what we need is a sort of information page like the ones an SG can create. It doesn't need to be huge.. Heck I would hope whoever creates a channel can make the rules for using it fit into a small screen (say 1000 words). If they need 15 paged of text .. maybe they ARE just a little crazy

My opinion? If a channel is created for a specific subject then that is what it should be about. Now I think some fleixibility should be displayed along those lines. Sure if you have created a BADGE finders channel and you have people on there talking about their RL jobs or the movie they watched Friday night.. BUZZ that's WAY off topic. But let's say a brand new player with about 1 week in the game has joined the channel because someone told him about it and suggested he join. Now suddenly our brand new hero, or villain, has a question about task forces or how to use the access window for Wentworths. I don't really see the crime in him asking for a little help. Maybe that ONE channel is the only one he belongs to and has no idea there may be others that are dedicated to just the topic he needs help with. In that case if the Moderator answered the question and then said something like "If you have more questions like that why don't you join this channel.... (insert name here) They discuss that sort of thing all the time. our "Kinder Gentler" Moderator has just accomplished two thing.. He answered the Newbies question which undoubtably made hium happy and now if he makes other friends new to the game he'll refer them to the channel if they need help .. and he guided the player to the right channel so IF and WHEN another question like that comes up that player will go there instead of asking it in the wrong one. Mission accomplished and no one had to be rude or obnoxious.

The problem is with a lot of channels is again do to no clear way to determine what is and whats not okay is where do you draw the line?

There are two badge channels on Virtue that I belong to. Okay so its a channel about babges BUT task forces and trials award badges and some even lead to accolades that grant powers. So .. is it okay to discuss task forces on a badge channel or do I switch to one of the two TF channels that exist on Virtue. Now I personally know that people even advertise they are forming a task force or a trial team on some badge channels and no one cares since it is giving members a heads up that a chance to earn the badge is now available.

There is one Monster hunters channel on Virtue but sadly its membership has dwindled. I have seen people advertising on LFG, Badge and even TF channels when they spotted a GM and were recruiting a team to battle it. Don't recall anyone ever complaining about that anywhere but if you get REALLY technical aside from say Babbage none of the other GMs is tied to any task force so is it okay to advertise a GM team there?

LOL I don't think there is any real right or wrong answer. Whoever owns the channel has the rioght to make the rules. But they need a better forum to display them so players know what they can and can't do in THAT channel. Shhhhh don't tell the Devs it was my idea or they may do something to my account so I lag horribly... oh wait on a full sized BAF I do that now anyway

Oh I agree with you. Not so much on the AE since that actually was them responding to something at least enough players asked for here on the forums that they found a way to make it happen (and now spend an ungodly amount of time and effort trying to keep people from using to farm and PL). But I have said for years they need to fix what's broken before adding more stuff. The trouble is a message saying "we don't plan to introduce any new content for about a year while we correct all the problems and bugs we have now" doesn't excite the player base and make them want to stay. What we see now is a good many older players that allow their accounts to go inactive until a new release and then they re-up and frantically speed through all the new stuff until it bores them and then .. they leave again.

I know exactly what you mean with the final mission of LGFT I get that too

Not sure about Seer Marino its been quite a while since I ran her arc.

I just discussed this elsewhere... I still have times when I zone and my Mastermind's pets wind up stuck at the door. and I am sorry /releasepets is not a fix its a stop gap measure instead of solvinf the problem.

Here's a new one we reported just last night. Joined a league in the RWZ and the leader invited a player than had just left AE. Somehow all at once an entire team showed up in our league and as it turned out they were a team inside the AE building preparing to go in and do a Ma MISSION. The leader had to kick each member individually to get rid of them. ??? wonder how long it will take to track down what caused that and actually fix it. LOL

One I still can't understand is why they can't find a way to stop the problem with certain powers with knockback tossing an NPC into a wall. This is always fun on mission maps where its a kill all .. like the fist few missions of the Moonfire TF 9one of this weeks (WSTs). I have had that happen on that TF before and after waiting almost 20 minutes for a GM the entire team logged off and back on and repeated the mission so we could complete.... About 3/4 of the way through the second attempt the GM finally contacted us.

I could go on for days but your right .. they need to fix what's broken. One of my SG mates is in IT and he has even told me on numerous occasions that adding NEW content or programs while the bugs still exist in the old just compounds the problem and .. generates even more bugs!

The fact is thought they had already committed to the path they are on and supposedly the Anti-Matter trial goes into closed best testing this month. They are probably well into developing Issue 21 and may even be laying the ground work for issue 22. For years they have stuck to not adding more levels like THAT OTHER POPULAR MMO and I suppose we should be happy they at least finally gave our 50 levels something to do. The trials aren't bad actually and obviously they do plan to add more. I am getting sick of watching Mother Mayhem, Siege and Nightshade chat. LOL

Ehh No its a pain in the ____. and /releasepets is not a fix its a band aid. When I zone into a mission and while everyone else is rushing forward to attack while I am lagging behind while I /releasepets to desummon and then have to resummon and equip all of them. Its not convenient and its not acceptable. LOL

Years ago every time an MM went from one zone to another or zoned into a mission they had to resummon and equip all their minions. And the other players hated waiting while we did it. SUPPOSEDLY they fixed that so all pets could follow you anywhere. Ones with short lives simply despawned when their time was up. The current.. OPPS my Pets are all stuck at the entrance! we have now is a BUG and one that needs to be fixed. When that will happen...sorry Skorp I haven't a clue. It took forever to get them to fix it so we didnt have to resummon constantly. SIGHS Until then sadly /releasepets is our only recourse.

Agreed.. while it seems simple to just say "Lets just add ten levels and let them go to 60." The game isn't geared for it and it would take ?? who knows how long to create critters to give a 60 level a good fight. Considering the design of the rest of the game it might even require 2 whole new zones.. one blue and one red side with 53-62 level villans, a whole new set of contacts, new story arcs and quite possible even new enemy groups to battle or at least new factions of older groups. Then we get into is 60 level enough? I picked it sort of assuming we'd gain one of the current incarnate powers every other level BUT realistically the rate beyon 32 in one power every 3 levels so 1 at 49 (that we have now) a 2nd at 52, 3rd at 55, and so on... using that scale we'd get the Omega power at level 79. Now we seriously need a new zone and potentially new enemies.. No way the current 50 levels survive long roaming a zone with 80+ level villains. So now we are talking between 10 and 30 new level , new zones new enemies and .. what NO Task Forces or Strike Forces through 30 levels of play???

See just like Lothic said they's be better off introducing COH2 with features like that built in than trying to add that much new content now to what we have.

First of all people in that, and several other, MMOs complain because the GUILDS you refer to are their version of our Super Groups and from what I know its very true that in THAT MMO if you don't join the right guilds you may as well forget about raiding. With very few exceptions here in this MMO the "Leagues" we are referring to are basically PUGs that form based on nothing more than players that are available and looking for that particular trial or just any trial at all. Comparing the two is nonsense. Once a trial is completed people leave and if those that remain want to go again they start recruiting using exactly the same format.. are you on line, a 50 level, and interested in participating in a trial? Hardly seems like a system that is discriminating against anyone except those too lazy to transport their characters to the places where teams are being formed or to bother joining any of the half dozen globals on Virtue, at least, that team leaders advertise when they need team mates.

And this

http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2010/05/perfect-mmorpg-raiding.html


is the sort of resources you use to come up with your ideas? From the comments I read below Tobold's BLOG even people that play that MMO don't necessarily agree with his writings and it also appears that the only MMO he plays is THAT one. So basically he knows as much about City of Heroes as a one day old player just arriving here in Altas or Galaxy. Now I am perfectly willing to admit that my knowledge of THAT MMO is limited to what I have heard from talking with a few SG mates that play it as well and one even runs one of those Guilds. So I would never assume to know all that is good or bad about it. I know its different. I know, as Bill mentioned, you don't even think about raiding unless you have all the right gear. I know it can get expensive since they don't have free upgrades like we do.. you want the ability to do X then pay us more money.

The LFG is flawed and broken PERIOD. As mentioned people don't want a system that just throws randem players together and if they get lucky they may have enough damage, control or whatever to be successful. I mentioned it before I will mention it again.. Even before I-20 left Beta players realized it wouldn't work and they started to form teams before joining the queue.

When it went live the LAST thing I wanted was to get shoved onto a team with absolutely no one that had no idea what was going on or what we needed to do. Fortunately I hooked up with some one that had run successful trials numerous times on Beta and she showed us all the ins and out of the Lambda and then the BAF. I played with other leaders and after a while knew several different strategies that were successful and knew exactly what to do and where to go. On Beta I joined the LFG once and was tossed onto a 12 man BAF league (two 6 man teams). No one had a clue what we were supposed to do and it even took us a little while to find the door to get inside. We managed to take out the WarWalkers and then repeated like got killed by the towers while we tried to figure out where Nightshade even was. By the time we did she'd been reinforced so many times we got slaughtered over and over until the timer ran out and TRIAL FAILED.

THAT is the sort of thing that is possible using the LFG. Forming a league where you can sit comfortably and move players from team to team to ensure all three have good damage and protection before entering the queue eliminates that problem. It doesn't necessarily promise success. I have been on leagues that failed and the usual reason? Players that didn't listen to what the leaders asked them to do. And to clarify I am not talking some bossy jerk that was barking out commands from the time we formed up until the time we failed. I am talking about an experienced leader that had been on trials and knew what needed to be done explaining what each team needed to do and then when we got inside.. numerous players that apparently thought they knew better just did whatever they felt like doing and then couldn't understand why we failed.

This could be as simple a detail as check your folders for grenades or acids we need to seal the portals or get over run. Even after we took out a couple weapon deliveries in the courtyard we still had reinforcements pouring in and sending us to the hospital faster than we could defeat them. In the BAF.. not staying close to your assigned door or not sticking to your assigned chock point. "Gee that's great you chased down that one lieutenant and managed to stop him just before he escaped.. while you were running half way acros the map 5 others escaped in the other direction! GREAT work!"

The LFG doesn't care about making sure each team has that experienced player to guide the new ones. The LFG doesn't care if it puts 8 scrappers on a Lambda and they have no buffs, debuffs, or aggro control to assist them. All the LFG does is throws together the absolute minimum number of players needed to start a trial and drops them at the front door. I used it a few times the first week 20 was released and fortunately a few of us knew what to do by then. We also knew there was no way 8 of use could defeat Maurader but we took out everything on the street, everything in the courtyard, all of the tower guns and the Security Guard. Then we grabbed all the acids and grenades giving us three, sometimes even four Astrals and then.. .... We all quit and left the trial. Didn't get any end bonus but we did manage to get IXP and converted those Astral into threads. Heck on my first incarnate I opened Interface that way. But joining a league and going in and completing the entire trial was a LOT more fun and a lot less risky.

A Lock isn't going to defeat the intent of the LFG the design of it has already accomplished that. The few players using it need to get over being shy and just start LOOKING for leagues. I don't know what other servers are like but I know anyone is welcome on the leagues forming in the RWZ on Virtue. Before I came here I used to play on Infinity and knowing the people there I can't imagine the same thing isn't true there. I'd be curious to see the figures I am certain the Devs have as to exactly how many people are even using the LFG as opposed to the number of full leagues that join the queue. My guess, at least on Virtue, would be its a very small percentage. That team I was on earlier today was the first I have ever seen that picked up ADDs. And at this point I'd estimate I have run about 150 BAFS and probably around 100 Lambdas and that may even be low. Now most of those league, until the LAG started, were full going in but even the shorter ones I have been on recently.. 2 adds total and both on one trial. Doesn't seem like a lot of people are lining up to use it to me.

................ No you know what I don't care. Doesn't stop me from disagreeing with any post you make here that I disagree with and allows me to completely ignore agreeing with any you make that I actual agree with.


No instead of responding let's give one more GOOD example of why league locks can be beneficial.

Earlier today I logged on with my Rad/Rad defender and joined a BAF advertsied to be 2 team (16 members only). My computer can handle 16 so I joined and in we went. We got inside and picked up 2 ADDS. You'll be happy to hear the leader didn't bother to kick them. We got to the escapee portion of the trial and naturally I dc'd from the lag. When I returned I didn't go back on to the 8 man team I had crashed off of.. I ended up on the 2 man ADD team (now a three man team). The escapee portion ened and we moved to battling Siege. The league leader was busy and never did stick me back where I was so NOW instead of being on the 8 man team getting IXP I needed to open my Lore slot I am on a 3 man team and trying my best to attack as many things as possible to maximize my possible XP. Finally a couple more people crashed and never returned and I don't know if the leader did it or the game just auto assigned us back to two 8 man teams but we eneded the trial that way. AMAZINGLY.... I somehow managed a Very Rare from that mess and went on to do a very good Lambda afterwards with the same 16 players..

But I got practically no IXP thanks to that and I got tired of waiting so I used threads to BUY XP and open my Lore slot. Those two extra players were anything BUT non-entities to ME. They increased the size of every spawn which added to the lag that crashed me to begin with. Then because they were there instead of returning to the team I left I found myself on a mini team and fighting desperately to get IXP while the 7 and 8 man team had more than double the players helping earn it. Now not once during all this did I SCREAM kick those two they are hurting us or hurting ME! and as I mentioned while the league leader allowed them to stay.. he didn't waste valuable time rearranging teams so they had more help so until I crashed they were a two man team and just had to live with it... No one but the queue invited them so live with what you get!

THIS is the kind of crap players are putting up with that has prompted the call for being able to lock league. It's not some elitist notion that we are better than you and don't want you in our league. Its a necessity to allow the teams that form to actually enjoy what they are doing.

If it ever gets adopted will some players abuse it? Sure they will. Some players abused the AE which has all but ruined it for most people. Some players abuse the Market. Some players abuse any little thing they can find to cheat the system and gain some advantage that allows them to increase wealth, levels or whatever. Frankly I consider those players to be Jerks and fools... "I found a cheat that let me level from 1-50 in 4 hours in the AE without ever leaving Atlas Park!" Hurray for you! Considering how many recipes and salvage drops you get in AE missions and the restriction now in place on XP and INF earned.. how much cash do you have on hand ? and is your build completely IO'd? I level my 50s using mission contacts and TFs. By level 47 almost every one has a 50 level IO in every slot and my Badger now has 1.9 Billion in INF and has given away probably another half a billion. I enjoy my way better but as I have told many people MANY TIMES there are a thousand ways to play this game and as long as the way you pick doesn't violate the rules there is nothing wrong with any of them.

Fact is the vasy majority of players feel the same way that I do or have similar values. We aren't looking for a speed course to the top we are enjoying the ride. Why anyone thinks a League Lock will automatically result in thousands of little cliches that never team with anyone else and use the lock to ensure the so called riff raff can't join them is beyond me.

This is a very friendly and helpful community, with the usual few exceptions, and its one reason I have stuck with this game for going on 6 years.

Now back to my on line experience. Lets look at those two ADDs that wound up in OUR league. Two guys joined the Queue and may have stood around for 20-30 minutes waiting to get an invite to a trial. Times vary but just to see how long it MIGHT take I joined the Q solo ealier today as well. Twenty minutes later I still hadn't gotten an invite and when I saw the Leader setting up a small BAF I dropped out and sent a Tell asking to join. So lets say these two got lucky and only waited for 15 minutes. They enter a trial and find themeselves on a two man team through almost half the trial. I can only imagine how little an amount of IXP they got if they were still after it. I have left BAFs on an 8 man team that only gave me 10 -12 %. So lets be REALLY generous and say each one earned 9% during the trial IF they weren't among those that crashed later on and never made it back. Considering how few an amount of defeats they probably had anything to do with based on their team size I can't imagine what reward table they got and it could easily have been the dreaded 10 threads or an inspiration table. I know during the time I was teamed with them at least one of them always seemed to be dead and trying to get back from the hospital. I'll be generous again and say they both somehow managed an uncommon.

Now if they had just gone to globals and looked for a league or come to the RWZ and joined one .. they'd have been on 8 man teams that whole time and who knows how much more IXP and what level of reward drop they might have acheieved. They probably would have had half the wait time before being inside a trial and would have still been on a team when they emerged that may have turned right around and gone back inside. My question here is almost everyone is well aware that leagues are forming constantly in places like the RWZ, Pocket D, Cimerora, etc. Why waste you time with the LFG? Like I said I stood around in RWZ 1 for over 20 minutes without an invite. I couldn't go to my base, Couldn't access the tailor and create a new outfit. Couldn't run solo missions while i was waiting .. I had to stand around doing pretty much NOTHING waiting for the queue to find me a team. A little bit ago I logged back on after dinner and in 4 minutes I found a BAF and was inside defeating Warworks in another 5-6. So in half the time I wasted getting NO invite from the Queue i managed to find a league on my own and get inside and start earning threads etc.

The queue is flawed. It puts together the absolute minimum sized team required for each trial and doesn't care what ATs they are. Now a 12 man VEAT league would probably have a lot of fun in a BAF but a 12 man Blaster team could easily spend more time waiting for the door to the hospital to unlock than fighting anything. (please keep in mind I said COULD . that same team could blast things to bits and rock. I only used them because I play Blasters and know how much defense we have. NOT MUCH AT ALL LOL). Before it even left Beta players were already ignoring it and forming league before entering to make sure they had the weapons necessary to be successful. I have seen other threads here where players complained about spending 30 minutes or more waiting to join a trial And their biggest complaint.. they only had a couple hours a day to play and just wasted 25% of it trying to get one mission. Leagues are a definate advantage.. Being able to assmble three 8 man teams that can all communicate through league chat has made the COP much simplier. I know its being used on Rikti Mothership raids and even Hamidon raids for the same purpose and with the same results. That new feature is great but they need or NEEDED more time to work out bugs before springing a program that just throws whoever together on a team and says "Good Luck the bad guys are -----> THAT WAY!"

And now if you will excuse me I have an SG night starting up in a few minutes so i will be hitting send and heading back into the game.

Bill

First of all thank you for sort of defending me Not that I cant do that myself. Your right Snow and I have a tendancy to constanty get on one another's nerves. I think its mainly because he always comes off with an attitude that no one else could possible be right and his view on anything should be accepted as COH law without question. LOL I have seen the man actually tear apart, line by line which is his style, posts from other players, myself included, that were BASICALLY agreeing with him.. but one tiny element of our post didn't mirror his total viewpoint. I am not even going to bother arguing this issue with the man anymore.. He still can't even accept the fact that he didn't get onto a BAF trial map solo.. using the technicality that he entered the q solo and was on a one man team when he arrived.... the other 11 players (minimum) on other teams had NOTHING to do with it! LOL

Now I do find it amusing that he actually had to leave a global channel in game because he was being personally attacked. Hmm considering the way he treats anyone here that had the audicty to disagree with his opinion I wonder why that came about?


I do agree he has a very dim view of players in general. While I understand the reason why, at the moment, some leaders want to limit the size of theri teams do to lag, ect I personally have never kicked anyone off a team I led. And I am a PUG queen which is how I met most of the people on my friend's list. Do players get kicked off teams from time to time? Sure they do. And for a variety of reasons spanning everything from Went AFK without saying a word and now is holding up the TF becasue he/she is still standing at the entrance of the mission we just completed. To being a complete drone that is insulting other team members and ruining everyone else's time. But I have never seen a team leader just blantantly kick people for no reason at all.

I don't see the point of opposing league locks. I'm sure some people will abuse it but name me one thing in this game that someone hasn't abused or tried to anyway. AE.. gave us the 1-50 in one day babies that couldn't find PI on a map without help. Wentworths and the Black market.. we all know there are players out there buying up certain salvage and recipes at low rates and then trickling them back so they can jack the prices up to unreasonable levels. Even the old PI farmers took a simple click the glowie to complete mission and turned it into a way to farm for XP, INF, Drops and .. even charge players for the right to join them in semi cheating the system. using Snow's logic all of us would be sitting in the AE building in Atlas creating new stories to work around the limits in place and earn 5-10 level an hour, then rushing off to PI to farm and grab as much INF as possible so we can run to WW and buy up all the Luck Charms at 10,000 INF and then sell them back 1 or 2 at a time for 500,000. Funny thing is the majority of us are out running missions, including the new trials, and never do any of that.. But if they allow us to lock Leagues we will all be elitists that never team with anyone we don't know! Gee I have 5 incarnates now with all 4 new powers open and at teir 3 or 4, a 6th with judgement and interface open and the only people I team with that I KNOW are the ones I have met running trials since they started. I enjoyed their leadership style and added them to my friend's list. IF they are on and running trials I will look for them.. If not I will team with anyone!

If they'd just FIX the dang lag this would be a non issue to begin with. The first two weeks after the trials began i didn't have a single problem with lag on either trial and quickly had 4 characters at 50 (+3). Since then the patches they made to solve other issues have made even trying the BAF on a full team almost impossible for me (may be my computer but I still lag horribly and even crash during the escapee phase). I can usually get through a Lambda but sometimes even crash on that during the battle with Maurader. What has all that meant? Well the last character I got to teir 3s easily was doing the runs where Seige and Nightstar are pulled to the helipad and all teams can battle the AVs and the ADDS. That Mastermind had 5 rare drops and 3 very rares. The best I have gotten recently thanks to missing battles while I relog or lagging so bad my powers dont fire off is some uncommons. Now I have tons of INF and lots of time so I don't worry about it I will BUY what I need to get by but I am not the only player with this issue. Team leaders are throwing together smaller BAFs and smaller Lambdas so the team actually has a chance to get through the trial without lag and potentially get better rewards. Fix the lag and we all go back to being quite happy with 24 player or 16 player trials. If they can't fix it then at least give us a way to limit size to compensate for it (like a lock). Until then on the rare occasions that a team winds up with an ADD or two from the queue .. there is a good chance that league leader will kick those players.

Anyway have fun fighting with Snow. You'll never change his mind but it can be fun watching him spend hours cutting and pasting to throw together those posts where he answers ever little bit of your post to TRY and show you how wrong you are. He's supposedly a computer tech so I imagine he can do it fast but i sometimes wonder when he actually finds time to play the game. he's always in here posting twenty times to try and convince everyone how RIGHT he is. LOL

Suggestion one seems like it could be a coding nightmare. What sort on incarnate stuff gets dropped? Shards? Threads? Components for the Alpha slot? or ones for Judgement, Lore, Interface and Destiny? Will there be some mission they need to run to gain access? I mean when the Alpha slot arrived we had an entire arc to complete before we could start getting shards. With the new stuff we get Incarnate XP to open each power and now apparently you can use that XP to open the Alpha without doing the arc. Still a 50 level is required to do SOMETHING to gain access to this stuff so I can't see them just suddenly giving it to a 10 level. Not saying its a terrible idea they just need to give players some mission or arc to complete and they occasionally get a drop to horde till 50 level.

Like Tech and Bill I don't see your second idea at all. We have players that get upset over the smallest details I can just imagine the screaming if suddenly players on Freedom or Virtue are suddenly not getting the EXACT same drop rate as less populated servers. And as Bill said there are no dead servers in this game.

Your third idea is interesting and I'd enjoy seeing it. Give Veats their own set of Epics that fall in line with what they already have now. Of course the AT powers themselves are awesome and at one point my Crab Spider had a build that didn't even have any Patron powers.. I wanted more of the one's available too much. After Stamina became inherent I did a respec and picked up a 6th Spider pet

Should have added something like this to my first post.. If you are looking for a trial anywhere use the following globals. We all do on Virtue>>


Virtue TFs 2010
Virtue TFs (second channel started when the first maxed out)
Virtue LFG Beta
Virtue Badges
Virtuebadges09
Virtue Forever United
and Radio Virtue

All are public access so anyone can join.. Okay so Virtue TFs 2010 is full but join the second along with most or all of these others and very little that is happening on Virtue will get past you. League Leaders use some or all of these to recruit all the time.. of course the biggest ones are the TF channels. It certainly beats running to 3 or 4 RWZs, then to Cimeroroa and finally to Pocket D looking for a team!

And let me guess you are such an outstanding player that you didn't ask to be placed on any of the larger teams so you could actually get Incarnate XP and stand a chance at getting a better reward table when the trial ended? So far the duration of the trial you stayed a SOLO one man team. The POINT was regardless of you hitting LFG and entering the queue solo once inside the trial you TEAMED up with people. Unless you just enjoy standing around watching other people have fun!


I'm curiuos do you always twist everything around to make your self look right? Everyone knows you CAN'T invite once inside the trial. Oh and you also can't invite once inside a TF sort of sounds like a same system is in place doesn't it. THE POINT was if I build a team for any purpose.. including just REGULAR MISSION ( so I make it CLEAR ENOUGH . those are ones that don't have anything to do with a TF or any TRIAL). It's my team and I have the right to invite OR not invite anyone I please. And I really hate to rain on your parade but the same is true of a Task Force and a trial (including the Incarnate ones)


Well NEWS FLASH Snow we are not talking about Beta. We are talking in game LIVE as in right now. But you just keep right on clinging to that tiny little thread you have as a life line and claim that you entered the LFG solo and when you arrived in the trial you were a team of one SO you entered the trial SOLO. Now CRASH that was the sound of it breaking. If at least 11 other players on OTHER teams weren't on that same map for the purpose of running a trial for IXP and rewards is there any possible way you could be inside? NO BECAUSE THE BAF TRIAL HAS A LIMIT OF A MINIMUM OF 12 PLAYERS. Oh and frankly if you consider yourself a team of one during an event that requires 12 people to even have a chance at success I am very glad we play on different servers.


Don't think I'll even respond to that one since you don't converse you dictate to anyone that doesn't blindly agree with you what YOU think they should THINK.


And again show me anywhere that these so called terms of your are spelled out by anyone? Even entering the Q screen and clicking on each choice which brings up a brief description all it says is players must be level 50 and a minimum of 12 (BAF) or 8 (LAM) must be available for a trial to begin. WHICH by the way .. except in your mind means it is completely impossible to end up inside a BAF or LAM trial map unless those minimums are met.. you can THINK what you like but your part of an 8 or 12 man team or you are still outside looking in

Interesting so you would boot a player that wasn't holding up his end? Even more interesting since the few here that agree with you seem to view private leagues as elitists and being prejudice yet you almost never in 75 months of play have teamed with anyone but friends. And yet you see no problem in telling the rest of US that we can't decide who we want to team with.

And after the trial was over I'd one star you and and make sure I never teamed with you again for letting a jerk sit at the entrance and grab up IXP, INF and potential salvage and recipe drops while I was out helping take out ADDS, battling AVS, and helping prevent escapees from walking out that same front door. If it was a Lambda I might even quit the trial and find another team. When I am playing a squishy character and getting multiple trips to the hospital trying to find the grenades and acids no way I'd put up with a team mate sitting outside waiting for us to finish and I sure wouldn't team with the leader that let him.


And since when are 1, 2 or however many extra players suddenly showing up inside a mission a NON-ENTITY? They add 1, 2 or whatever more sets of powers being used including auras, ect that produce more lag. They increase the size of the mob spawns on the map which increases the lag. In short.. They increase the lag. Now if the lag didn't exist no one would be TRYING to build smaller leagues to begin with since the MORE ADDS you take out the more threads youo potentially earn, the more IXP you earn, and the better your chances are for a Rare or Very rare drop. And during slow periods where finding 24 players gets hard a team may start with less and gladly accept any add ons the G may send theor way BUT until they fix the lag players are running smaller leagues so they can actually move and PLAY the game. If extra people show up and no one wants them.. They get kicked.


Once again you twist whatever you like aroound .. No Leader I know would kick someone they just recruited and invited to their team and I NEVER said they would. WHICH is why they will always kick the people forced on them by the queue.


And your's is wide open to new fresh ideas. LOL


First I seriously doubt those figures are accurate. More likely the person that wrote that has a flair for exaggeration. One guy kicked 16 people out of a trial? and his reason was so he could play with his friends? So what he planned to tackle Siege and Nightstar together with 4 or 5 players? I refer to them since kicking 16 people off a Lambda is called quitting the trial .... no one would be left inside. AS you have pointed out NUMEROUS times, like anyone that has lead or run a trial isn't alreasy aware, once inside a leader can't invite anyone. So this guy either had a death wish or was so stupid he assumed that the QUEUE was going to invite all his buddies to join him after he made room for them. Now I have had the misfortune of playing with some pretty DUMB leaders in my time but I never found one THAT stupid or totally in the dark.


Well fortunately I have rarely been on a league that had any open slots until the LAG MONSTER struck. as for exaggerating until you move a character from Triumph to Virtue and deal with the lag we get in the RWZ just building a league let alone trying to run one with 20+ players running auras etc Don't tell other people what they know they have seen. I have had times where I can't get a single power to fire and can't even get my character to move much less stop escapees (the worst lag of the entire trial). I have dc'd numerous times do to lag and come back to find i missed an Astral and at the end of the trial because I wasn't there the entire time gotten common drops while others got rares or very rares.

LAG is an issue on these trials and just a bit earlier I was on line and ran a BAF with a team of 18. even with 6 slots unfilled the lag was still awful during the Escapee portion. And all your arguing hasn't convinced a single person here that they don't have the right to run trials, tfs or whatever with however many players they like. From the sounds of that I almost never play with people i don't know line .. you don't even really believe it yourself.

Agreed actually players have even made comments about how much easier TFs like Statesman and Recluse have gotten since almost everyone is 50(+1) on them these days and some even have and use tier 3 or 4 Judgement, Lore, Destiny and Interface powers on them.. the added level shifts dont apply but those extra powers still exist.. I have an MM that now has 9 pets she can summon. Heck there was even a thread asking for a way to SHUT off incarnate powers because someone thought it was getting to easy to do Master of Runs

While its not as fast or simple you can get shards from anything now including exemplaring down. Shards can be turned into threads and threads build components for enhancements.. heck threads can even be used to BUY Incarnate XP. The trials are the fast track but there is nothing stopping a 50 level from using influnece and shards to accomplish the exact same thing.

Depending on the time of day and day of the week i have also seen teams form on Virtue in all of these locations..

Pocket D
Cimerora
Studio 55
The Midnighter's Club (this one is about the worst since the club is very small and at best will hold one 24 player league before hitting its cap)


So just about anywhere heroes and villains can assemble together and team up.

I've even been in a league that left Studio 55 and was running missions from Imperial City.

hehehe no I thought the Sarcasm was cooked to perfection. BRAVO my compliments to the Chef!

Makes mental note..

1. log on and delete all friends from global and sever lists

2. Post note for team search.. "Willing to accept any invite. Yeah go ahead and blind invite me I have no standards at all."

3. Quit all 4 SGs I belong to and help run. explain to Leaders I can no longer be a part of an elitist organization that discriminates against the downtrodden. Wish them all well and ask that my prestige earned be donated to help catgirls that need a home (Apologizes to all cat girls LOL)

4. Hey what the heck I can earn XP and even Shards now anywhere so why bother ever leaving Atlas Park again. Just join one Sewer team after another and mindlessly kill Vahz, Lost and Hellions forever. If I hang out in PI all the time, or Grandville, someone may get the idea I am against 2 levels

Was that sarcasm to heavy on the sauce? heheh

Funny I didn't see it that way. He rattled on about being able to join ANY mission anytime.. Sure as long as you have the same contact you can get the exact same mission that I may be on and possible even enter the same door. But unless the team I am leadeing has less than 8 players and I specifically INVITE you there is no way to join a mission I am running from say Boreas in the RWZ. yeah there is an option in the LFG that says willing to join trial in progress and I suppose IF someone dc'd and a league dropped below the minimum one player MIGHT be invited into that trial.. But how often does that occur? I'd venture to say rarely Of course I am POSITIVE you'll say it happens all the time. Well guess what NOT on Virtue it doesn't.


as usual you miss the point.. I didnt ask how many time have you joined the Q and entered a trial winding up ON A TEAM. I asked you how many time have you.. JUST YOU ... entered the trial solo. No one else was there and you were free to roam around the map? before you start the massive evaluation let me tell you..NEVER because as you and others have already stated there is a set minimum number of players that have to join before the Q will teleport you into a BAF or LAM. NOW .. can you access the Hive or the RWZ as a solo player and go inside? YES. and you can roam around without any mission and do whatever you like.

Fail to see your point here? of course once a league froms everyone has to accept joining the Q to get inside. That's what the count down to 16 or 24 is.. players clicking the green button.


Apples and Oranges Snow. Yeah the LFG allows you to enter the Q solo but before you wind up onm the instance map and start battling Warworks you have been assigned to a team and a league. Sounds to me like grasping at straws to make your point.


I already discussed this above


As mentioned numerous times in this thread there is nothing in the TOS that states a team leader can't kick any player from any team.. the fact that the option exists to begin with proves that the Devs have no issue with it. To the best of my knowledge the only "TERMS" for running an Incarnate Trial are ..

All players must be 50 levels. From what I have seen and heard this doesn't even require those players to have run Mender Ramiel's arc and opened their Alpha slot. I have seen 50 levels with no Alpha in leagues.

Before entering the event a minimum number of players must join the team/leaque (and before you start up again this refers to the fact that once the Q assigns them to a specific trial they will be on a team once arriving inside the mission.. I have stated several times I KNOW players can join the QUEUE solo)

I don't know of any other terms that need to be met to begin a trial and don't recall seeing any pop up screen saying anything about "League MUST accept any and all players assigned by the LFG even if they don't want them on their team!"

Just because its a TRIAL doesn't mean a leader MUST accept anything he or she doesn't like. the same feature to KICK players exists during trials which, as I already stated, means the Devs and GMs have no issue with this situation. let me TRY to put this another way for you. TF, SF, Trial or regular mission .. you are the team leader and after a short period of time you realize a player that joined your PUG is basically sitting at the door stealing XP, INF, Recipe drops and salvage while the rest of the team actively participates in the mission. Now I am not talking a player that come on chat and says I have a RL phone call BRB and disappears for a bit.. I am talking they basically just sit there doing nothing. Your saying you'd let this player stay on your team mission after mission doing nothing to support the team rather than KICK him the heck out and recruit someone that will help? Or would you boot that player like the rest of us? Now I am NOT saying a player that enters the Q via the LFG is a slacker but if he TEAM leader only wants 14 players on his Lambda run to cut lag and only recruits that many and then by some miracle, since he is already well over the minimum, a 15th player shows up that has hindered the intent that leader had when he only recruited 14. There is nothing in TOS or in these mythical Terms of the Trial you describe that prevents that leader from kicking that player. Why should he keep someone he had no say in recruiting and toss out someone he actually did recruit?

You stated somewhere in this thread that you hoped a leader that kicked players was reported to the GMs and given a time out, so to speak, for his or her actions. I challenge you to TRY that and see how far you get. Since there is nothing in TOS prohibiting a leader from kicking a player or having to even explain WHY they kicked a player if challenged. I doubt you'd even get a GM to come back and reply. At best you might get an email explaining that no action was taken since the TOS was not violated in any way. Your argument is based solely on the rights of an individual player and they have rights its true. But every player has rights not just the ones that are too shy or that can't be bothered to go to the places where leagues are forming and actively join a league. If those players want to ensure they get into a trial all they need to do is hit the RWZ, POCKET D, CIMERORA, STUDIO 55, heck on Virtue we have even had league form up in the MIDNIGHTERS CLUB. ... and respond to the leaders andvertising BAF forming looking for 10 more! There is absolutely nothing stopping any of them from going to one of those places , or any place they like, and starting up their own league.

People like to SUCCEED not FAIL in this game. Joining the Q and being assigned to a random team of players that has no thought process involed in team make up ect. does not lead to a good shot at success. Building a solid league of 2 or 3 teams first and then entering the Q dramatically increases the chance for success which is way this has become the popular way to join these events. That league leader that spent X amount of time recruiting and buiulding as many as three well balanced teams to do a BAF has as much right to have things done the way he wants as any TF. SF or regular mission team leader does.. and JUST as much right to kick any player that doesn't follow instructions or jepordizes the success of the mission.. and no matter what you may think 2 or 3 extra players that were not invited and are now causing added lag is a perfectly legitimate reason since that lag may cause the trial to fail.

Okay Bill tore this apart already but allow me to add my perspective. The Hive is a ZONE. even if there isn't a raid taking place I can enter and collect badges or just fly around exploring. The RWZ is a ZONE. Mothership RAIDS take place in it but it also has numerous contacts offering door missions and one giving out a task force. NO you can't kick a player out of those because they don't need to join a TEAM to get in.

Now Snow tell me exactly how many times you have gotten inside the BAF or Lambda Trial without joining a team attached to a league? Did you fly around and check out the place. Maybe head over and visit Siege in his office?

No because the ONLY way anyone can get into that MISSION that TRIAL is by joining a team. Which by the way is the same with the Terra Volta Trials, Eden Trials, Treespecs, the COP, etc. no one just waltzes inside and looks around. Heck to see the inside of a COP you not only need to join a team the SG sponsoring it needs the raid teleporter and the mission computer. Yeah go tell those guys after they spent the time and prestige to set up their base they don't have a say in who they invite.

You can't compare an unwanted player showing up in Eden for a Hami raid to players being assigned to an established league without the league leader having a say. As mentioned here repeatedly, and ignored completely by you, all any leader needs to do to avoid this is FILL a team to maximum before entering Q or kicking unwanted and uninvited players from the team once inside. So why not just avoid the hurt feelings and allow a lock that bars outsiders from joining once the league is set? It allows those leaders trying to avoid lag by staying at a set size to accomplish that with less grief and it protects those in the Q from being kicked because they weren't invited. I fail to see a down side here.

Hundreds of Trials are forming a day on Virtue and the vast majority are built before the team goes near the LFG. If that's not accomplishing exactly what you say they can't or don't have the right to do then what is? Look I did several trials on Beta and the first try was by just joining the Q. I wound up on a minimal sized team with no Tank/Brute to pull the AV, very few controllers or Defenders to buff/debuff, a league leader that had no idea why he even had the star, and not a soul that knew what we were supposed to do. Wonderful experience we failed miserably. Next trial I did I joined a league forming in Pocket D. The leader built each team to be sure the had a good mix of ATs and we joined the Q ready to begin. You can imagine how much better that one went. Sort of like the way most trials run right now and with the same successes. fact is the Q has become just a way to enter the trial and occasionally pick up one or two added player IF they are availbale. almost every trial can be classified as a "private league" since they have the maximum number of players allowed when the click Join the Q.

Believe it or not there are still SGs out there that like to get together and team. If an SG wants to hold a private league with just its members and perhaps members from their coalitions .. I don't recall a thing in the TOS that says they can't. Especially since they have probably been doing it with TFS and other trials for years.

Right now, thanks to lag, a lot of trials are going smaller to avoid the constant crashes and long waits for a power to actually FIRE. They don't want or need 4-5 extra people showing up inside. If they wanted a team that size they'd have recruited one to begin with. I've never seen it happen on a team I was on YET but if the league leader booted a couple of players that ended up in mission after we zoned. I'd have no problem with it.

Have to totally agree here. I tried out the LFG on Beta test and wound up on a minimal sized team doing the BAF. Not a soul in that league had a clue what we needed to do and the leader stated almost immediately.. "I only got the star cause i joined first I don't know what to do!" Obviously we failed miserably. The Q doesn't bother to organize teams so they have a good mix of ATs. The Q doesn't recruit to ensure we have enough DPS, controll, etc. all it does is tossed the first 8-12 players that join up togther and drops them into a trial saying "Have fun boys and girls.. oh the hospital is that way!" ---->

People in game were all excited about using it to join any sort of team imaginable. Now lets assemble an STF using the Q. Ohh look 4 scrapper, NO tank or Brute, 2 blasters, one good controller and a EMP defender that thinks his only job is to heal and didnt bother with any of his secondary powers. Instead he took three different types of travel power! No offense fellow EMPS I play them too but you know the type of H3al0R I am talking about. So we have no aggro control at all, half a team of melee which should make Ghost Widow a real JOY to battle and a Defender that may as well stand at the door and hand out towels. Yeah that will work! LOL Now I have seen leagues form that got close to 16 or 24 and then just went ahead and entered hoping to pick up whatever from the LFG or simply go with what they got and I did a few LFG teams after it went live that had people that knew what they were doing and we did very well but don't COUNT on that. If you want to be in a league and do trials there are, on Virtue at least, no less than 6 or 7 global channels to join and advertise you are building a league or looking to join one. Why let a computer program decide what your team will look like when you can build one yourself?

As for the limited trial sizes . lag alone has made many people chose to run with 16, 18 or whatever on the BAF rather than 24. They CHOSE to go with less to cut the lag so I can certainly see why finding 2-3 uninvited team mates once they get inside would upset them and result in some kicks. IF they gave us the option to lock in a league size limit it would help spare a lot of bruised egos when the KICK ME sign gets taped to your back and you wind up back outside. I have seen Master Of Lamdba teams advertsing for 50 (+3) only members and specifying what they need and want. So while zoning one guy crashes and the LFG assigns a 50 + nothing that entered the Q in his place? Don;t you think that League leader wants that guy GONE? he didn't recruit him and chances are with not even an Alpha slot open let alone tier 3 or better in three power slots how much help will this replacement be? Bye Bye Mo Run!


Now as mentioned what ANGLE are we missing there? and as Lothic mentioned earlier if it involves some goofy exploit that will eventually lead to restrictions like what they had to do with AE then I am sorry I don't consider that an angle ..that's a cheat and the people that ultimately suffer from those are the good players not looking to exploit the system. If its the feelings of the players that are getting kicked... well if leagues had the option to limit size to their desired level to begin with no one would be getting kicked so how are their feelings being hurt? this is more than just a game its a social network.. stop blindly joining the Q hoping to find a team that will help you and try actively asking "Anyone forming a trial? Willing to join BAF or LAM!" in globals. You'd be amazed how many leader are looking for fill slots and will grab you in a second. TOO SHY to advertise? fine WATCH the globals and send a quiet little tell to the league leader 'I'll join" in most cases that is all it will take. now.. how hard was that? cause if THAT frightens you maybe you are better off not joining a league. We can be very loud and excitable. We woot when we win and we love to call villains nasty names while we pound on them. Your delicate personality may never be the same again. LOL