Whovian

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Also, if you're doing this with behemoths, be sure to watch if they cast invincible before they attack you as that is a tohit buff. Are you checking your their tohit rolls?

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Actually, I should clarify, these aren't behemoths I was talking about...these were Behemoth Overlords which don't have invincibility...but you're right that further testing is still needed.

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be sure to watch if they cast invincible before they attack you as that is a tohit buff

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This can make a huge difference too.


Unlucky streaks just happen. During a mission the other day fighting council I ran into a LT class Wolf who managed to hit me 3 out of his 4 attempts all due to his tohit rolls.

As far as your herding ITF mobs I am leaning to believe you were running the mission fighting +2s or higher. I farmed the walls around Cim pretty often when I get bored and have gone to the restroom in the middle of a full spawn of even level mobs to come back at just above half health but been in the middle of a mob of +2s with 1 boss who hit me hard enough to almost equal the damage all the other even levels managed to accomplish in several minutes.

My recommendation is about what others have said and I believe you may have answered and dismissed the idea. Eat a few oranges. All I carry when playing my highly defense based toons are a few greens and buncha oranged. I know I am going to get hit and besides my DM/SD none of my defense based toons have any real resist outside of just tough or scaling resist which do nothing at full health. Hell I used to run my SS/EA through the ITF pulling lead and using Taunt and /EA has crap DDR when compared to /SR

back to what Mojo said though you need to do more test and pick a mob without tohit buffs before you conclude your defense is broken

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Actually I was more concerned with mobs frequently rolling low numbers under the defense value. I'm more concerned there's something up with the random number generator for some of the enemy attack rolls. To roll under 6% with such frequency is a bit odd. But I take your point. I'll do some more testing and see how the numbers add up.

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Look, the bottom line is if you were given a choice of power sets and these were what they offered, which would you choose?

Column A: Soft cap defenses. Some resistence after you lose more than half your life, some resistence to slow effects.

Column B: Soft cap defenses, a self heal, additional HP, 90% resist to smash / lethal, and decent resist to all other dmg types, an oh @#$ button which caps all resists for 3 minutes, resists to end drain and the same resistence to slow effects.

SR is really just Invuln without any real resistance. Given that, doesn't that mean that SR is pretty well garbage? SR should at least have higher defense than invulnerability...that's their whole point. If a set doesn't offer any benefit and is only lacking compared to another power set...why's it an option in the first place?

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That's so skewed and biased I'm not sure it deserves a response.

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How is it biased or skewed? Honestly...compare the two sets and explain to me why SR is better than or on par with Invuln. What reason would someone have for legitimately choosing SR over Invulnerability? If all SR has is pure soft capped defense with little to no other migitating ability...why shouldn't we all just take Invuln? SR needs something to set it apart. Right now it is just a drastically weaker set than an existing one.

Ok, I just did a run through a Grandville door mission. Here's another theory. I kept track of the number of opening attacks from behemoth overlords. Of the 14 opening attacks I was subject to they should have only had 6.6% chance ot hit me, though they succeeded in rolling under that 6% a total of 6 times. That number seems oddly high. So I ran other door mission to test it again. And of the 15 opening Behemoth Overlord attacks, they managed to roll under that number 5 times in the opening attack. Perhaps there's a hole in defense on initial attacks, or there's something bugged with the random number generator that calculates some of the enemy attack rolls. Out of 31 opening attacks, 11 hits seems a bit high when they should only hit me 1/16 times. That or there's something buggy with my account.

Look, the bottom line is if you were given a choice of power sets and these were what they offered, which would you choose?

Column A: Soft cap defenses. Some resistence after you lose more than half your life, some resistence to slow effects.

Column B: Soft cap defenses, a self heal, additional HP, 90% resist to smash / lethal, and decent resist to all other dmg types, an oh @#$ button which caps all resists for 3 minutes, resists to end drain and the same resistence to slow effects.

SR is really just Invuln without any real resistance. Given that, doesn't that mean that SR is pretty well garbage? SR should at least have higher defense than invulnerability...that's their whole point. If a set doesn't offer any benefit and is only lacking compared to another power set...why's it an option in the first place?

"Brutes are extremely durable, but not really built for tanking."

Why aren't they? When did herding and tanking get erased from game play? That tanks can't herd anymore is a myth. I have more than a few members of my SG which herd and maintain aggro just fine.

My SG mates and I are simply wondering why it is that the higher your def value is, the more likely it seems you are to get hit. When my def is at or near the 45% soft cap I can dodge somewhat against level 50+ enemies. But when I pop some purple inspirations or hit elude, all of a sudden I start getting hit more frequently. I think defense is bugged. And I'm not the only one finding this. After a certain point higher defense seems to be causing problems.

Nothing anyone has said has been able to explain how two different defense based toons could be so easily dropped on a task force when their defenses were so high. And when I got dropped this wasn't a single lucky one shot... I was actually hit by three consecutive attacks that dropped me.

I was rez'ed...got back up, hit my toggles again, ate some purples...my defenses were back up to almost 200%, and bam...it happened again. I was dropped in 2 or 3 hits...didn't evade a darn thing.

The same thing happens during the ITF. I get hit alot, as does my friend's Widow...and before you say there's something wrong with my build...all my defense toggles are slotted up to 59.2% defense bonus to base defense...I have all of the auto defense powers, along with combat jumping and the universal defense piece from steadfast protection. My defenses are at 46.6% AOE defense, 51.3% melee defense and 49.6% ranged. Elude is six slotted and with it activated my stats are pretty close to 130% across the board. But it certainly seems that I am getting hit more than 5% of the time. And in the case of the LRSF finale I was getting hit by 100% of the incoming attacks.

Other enemies and situations are problematic as well...a single layer of nemesis vengeance let's anyone hit me through my toggles. Bane Spider Scouts and Executioners have little trouble hitting me, as do rikti drones, Nemesis snipers, Malta Gunslingers...and heaven help me if there are DE quartzes about.

I've had my SR scrapper for 3 or 4 years now, and I don't remember Defenses being this ineffective. I'm certainly getting hit more on my SR scrapper than I was a year ago...and my brute despite dumping hundreds of millions into sets gets hit far more often than I think he should. This can't just be bad luck.

If the best I can hope for is that 1/20 hits from enemies will get through at full damage...then what's the point. I might as well be playing my Invul Tank who gets 90% resist to 100% of the attacks, plus 45% defense in a herd. SR is significanly less useful than invuln at this point.

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As stated earlier in the post, that'd be evasion, not a passive aura that only SR brutes have. I'm 50 levels familiar with both SR and brutes (and quite a few more in brutes, SRs, and SR Brutes who haven't made it to 50). My brutes aren't tankers, my SRs don't suck ITFs or otherwise. If you were killed at the defense hardcap, you were either ridiculously near death anyway and they scored a lucky hit (a 5% chance to be hit at all times, after all), that isn't a problem with defense. If you're talking about the autohit nictus, no fix to defense is going to save you there.

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Nope. Was on a LRSF (repeating this yet again). My SR Brute and my friend's Widow were both at or near 200% defense from sets, powers, purples and bubbles...and we were both instantly killed in combat never having dodged or evaded a single attack. When I herd up a group on an ITF I still get beaten down quickly despite having 51% melee defense. I get hit fast, and often. This is what I'm trying to figure out. How can this be? And doesn't this make SR Brutes of questionable value?

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P.S. And if MM's are supposed to be the tanks of COV, why don't they get taunt? Why bother giving taunt to brutes at all.

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Don't ask me. It was a dev announcement that, if we had to compare Blue and Red AT's, the Tanker and MM would be closer partners than the Tanker and Brute, which would pair better with the Scrapper along with the Stalker.

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And it couldn't possibly be that Brutes are just as capable at herding as Tanks? Same resist cap and all? That's completely outside the realm of possibility?

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Actually, Evasion does have a built in taunt aura that is delightfully unadvertised. Brutes only, to be clear.

And on that note:
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And brutes do have a taunt aura...just by being brutes. If you don't believe me, park your brute next to a grey enemy who would have no business attacking you...and he'll take a swing at you.

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Don't spread silly rumors. This is false. They have a slight, ST gauntlet effect on hit, but brutes do not have a passive taunt aura.

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Sorry, was only speaking to the experience of my SR brute who does apparently have a taunt aura. Having no other brutes I was unaware that this was SR only.

[/ QUOTE ]No. Because I've played a defense set, specifically super reflexes to 50 and still play it I'm very knowledgeable about SR's capabilities. And if someone with less defense then you is finding it a rare occasion to be hit while fighiting things that debuff defense, what's your problem then?

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That's why I started this thread. Because lower defense values seem to be more effective than higher defense values. Read Winchetta's post...my SG mate...they also have the same problem...they, too, are getting hit more often post 45% defense than they were at lower levels.

I'm trying to figure out why my Brute continually gets hit so much. Nothing anyone has posted has helped, and your simply stating this can't be possible isnt' helping...because it is happening. Maybe it's a problem with Dual Blades + SR, but that doesn't explain the difficulty of my friend with the Widow who's getting hit just as easily.

"Not to mention as a brute, all that time you spend herding is time your NOT building up fury."

Brutes do get fury from herding. Even if the attacks miss, SR brutes' fury goes up from things taking a swing at them. Just by being in combat the fury bar moves. Usually at the end of a herd I have full fury and can open up with my AOE attacks. But none of this matters. If I choose to herd with my brute that's my perrogative. You still aren't talking to the issue at hand, and nothing you've said has helped to explain what I, and my SG has noticed about SR time and again.

P.S. And if MM's are supposed to be the tanks of COV, why don't they get taunt? Why bother giving taunt to brutes at all. And brutes do have a taunt aura...just by being brutes. If you don't believe me, park your brute next to a grey enemy who would have no business attacking you...and he'll take a swing at you.

"I'm surprised no one has called him on having at least 160% or so defense from IO sets."

I never claimed to having 160% from sets. I said I achieved almost 200% defense on a LRSF. Which I, and my friend's Widow, both achieved through bubbles, purple insps and powers.

"I have to wonder, since brutes are damage dealers and not intended to be meat shields?"

Why aren't they? Properly slotted they are just as resilient as tanks...they have the same taunt auras...why can't they be played as meat shields?

"Notice how he conviniently lets the replies he can't answer without admitting he's quite possibly wrong fade into the background.

I'll pose the question again: Why would you herd with a Brute, which is designed to be the Scrapper of CoV?"

Because you're arguing a point on opinion. Brutes IMO, are not just damage...they are the herders of COV. They have the same resist caps as Tanks, they have taunt auras...why aren't they the tanks of COV?

"By the way, just logged into my ice tank. He's currently got about 22% defense to smashing lethal, and already smashing and lethal attacks don't scare me due to missing most of the time. Why are you so worried again?"

Oh yes, more about your wonderful Level 17 Ice Tank. I'm guess because you've played an Ice Tank all to way to double digits you must be an expert about SR brutes. And I'm sure enemies at that level are comparable to enemies at level 50+...they have about the same chance to hit at both, right?

"And I don't want to hear from brutes who's job is to do damage, and who get BETTER defense then a scrapper with the same set due to having better modifiers."

Do brutes really get better defenses than scrappers? I don't think so. I have both an SR brute and an SR scrapper...they have pretty much the same defense, with only a % or two difference due to design choices. I'm pretty sure brutes get the same base values as SR scrappers.

"By the way, I also have an ice armor tanker. So don't even talk to me about not being attacked very as often as a brute. My ice tank's entire job is to get attacked instead of the rest of the team. And outside of energy damage (don't have energy defense yet) at level 17 he is barely getting hit already."

You can't compare the experiences of an SR scrapper or a level 17 Ice Tank to what a level 50 SR Brute has to endure. They're not the same thing. And your original argument was that your SR scrapper could live just fine through a TF, which does not compare to the role of the main herder.
And how do you know defense works perfectly the same for all ATs? I'm not sure that it does. This is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. What your level 17 Ice Tank deals with, as well as your SR scrapper is fairly irrelevent. Do you have an SR brute? That's what I want to hear about. Does anyone here have an DB/SR brute that can compare like scenarios?

"Sorry, I have 2 /SR at 50, and I haven't noticed this."

Two SR what? Brutes, scrappers? Do you herd with them?

More info please.

"A couple hits in sequence on /energy, /inv, or /ice can be devastating, but I've never had anything like a cascade failure on the ITF on my SR."

Well, I have. Many, many times. My level 50 SR/DB brute gets hit a lot whenever I try to herd. His melee defense is at 51% and he continually gets nailed, when he rounds up more than one group of mobs.

"I'm wondering how you think you get hit so freaking often anyway."

Because I do. =p

"The final chance to hit is 32.872 from an AV. So your avoiding more then half the AV's attacks. Hit elude, and the AV will only hit 7.5% of the time. Or soft cap defense via IO set bonuses and team mates and the AV only hits 7.5% of the time. This is the lowest chance an AV can have to hit someone. Those minions your worried about? They have a lower chance to hit soft capped defense."

This is why I'm posting, because this is not what I'm finding. LRSF, my friend and I were playing Defense based toons, and never once did we dodge a single attack from these AVs you claim only hit 7.5% of the time. I was hit three attacks in a row that dropped me in a matter of seconds...and that was with elude popped, all toggles slotted with sets that put me above the soft cap, and with 2 bubbles from force field bubblers. My friend was also dropped without ever dodging a single attack.

There are numerous enemies that pretty well laugh at defense...not just Rularuu, which you're not likely to see red side anyway. Nemesis after vengeance, or Nemesis Snipers, Malta Gunslingers, Rikti Drones, Bane Spider Scouts and Executioners, just to name a few that hit me as though I had no defense at all.

The real reason for this thread is to voice whether or not SR is a viable set for herding types...as it stands right now herding requires a ridiculous amount of support or inspirations to make possible. No brute should have this much trouble performing their basic duty.

"I'm having trouble believing you. Why? Because my main hero side is claw/sr"

I don't want to hear from Scrappers whose only job is to do damage. You can't compare scrapper survivability to that of someone whose job it is to actually draw enemy fire. You don't get attacked as often as my brute does. You don't herd like I do. Stand in the middle of a herd that you grouped hitting the aggro cap and see how long you live. That's the job of a brute. SR brutes take more of a pounding than some scrapper who's only there for damage add.

"Huh?? Nothing wrong with /Sr If you do get debuffed enough on the itf, you still have your scaling resist."

You're joking, right? The scaling resist is only substantial when you have next to no hitpoints. Sure at some point your resists are going to be upwards of 70%, but at that point you also only have about 100 hp. How long do you suppose you're going to live? The scaling resist will not save you from doing your job as a herder. Not to mention that the first few major hits (which if you're fighting Bane Spider Executioners or Cimeroran Bosses can be 800+ dmg) gets no damage resist at all.

"This whole complaint is just...well...bs."

Please explain.

"If the OP is complaining about DE or the Eyeballs, or even Nemesis soldiers, I think it is more of an issue with them learning the game, what does what, and what the little orange shield in the insp tray is for."

I know what the orange inspirations are for, and I shouldn't need to eat a ton of inspirations to be effective. Any toon who eats enough orange inspirations can call themselves a tank...brutes shouldn't need to. And I don't understand why they soft cap the defenses at all. I was on a LRSF and even with double bubbles and elude I was getting hit as though I had no defense whatsoever. I had a friend who was playing his Widow and they had comparable defenses and were having the same problem. Same went for the ITF where I was getting hit regularly with 85% defenses. If having 45% defense (capped) means anyone cimoran can hit without issue then what's the point of SR on the ITF at all? The toggles are effectively pointless.