Werner
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Posts
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I'd probably go Fighting pool. Stacking Tough and Weave on top of Willpower's resistance and defense will make you noticeably more survivable. Instead of Focused Accuracy, Pick up a Kismet unique for the +tohit and call it good enough for most purposes.
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The soft cap for defense is 45% due to the way the attack mechanics work. Note that someone with 40% defense is getting hit twice as often as someone with 45% defense. Those last five percentage points are huge.
On Super Reflexes, you may want to aim for perhaps 46% to 48% if you want to make sure you've handled defense debuffs. But most of the time, 45% is as good as it gets, and more defense won't help you.
The game takes the best of positional or typed defenses. So the only numbers you really need to care about in most situations are Melee, Ranged and AoE defense. 41% like you have is good. 45% is much better. -
I'd actually drop Divine Avalanche. Here's your basic template for soft-capping SR:
- Take your defensive powers and slot three defense (or equivalent in set IOs)
- Take Weave and Combat Jumping and slot three defense (or equivalent in set IOs)
- Take Tough and stick a Steadfast Protection in it (I recommend slotting and using it too)
- Stick a full Gaussian set in Build Up, Tactics or Focused Accuracy
That pretty much leaves your build wide open for pursuing other bonuses. Normally, I'd suggest going recharge to pull off the top attack chain for Katana (Golden Dragonfly -> Gambler's Cut -> Soaring Dragon -> Gambler's Cut) and to be able to spam The Lotus Drops, but with how expensive recharge is, you're not going to get there on a budget build. I haven't actually looked at low-recharge no-Divine-Avalanche attack chains, so I can't really advise you there. And what you do with the rest of your build and set bonuses will depend on your goals. -
I even jump with low ceilings. OK, maybe not in the tightest of cave tunnels when my cranium is already scraping the ceiling. But I just keep the camera low and use really quick taps to avoid camera-induced seizures. Boingboingboingboingboing. Granted, it took me a while to get used to bunny hopping. But I pretty much can't make a toon without it now. My E key swaps between Combat Jumping and Super Jump for seamless transitions in and out of combat. One jump speed in Hurdle, defense in Combat Jumping, and I'm mostly fast enough.
Sergei is a runner. Again, I had no target speed, but Swift + Sprint + Quickness + Ninja Run puts him over 60mph. It pretty much feels like a real travel power. I just wish I could toggle on/off Sprint and Ninja Run with a single key press. If I played him enough, I'd probably map them to keys next to each other, and get used to pressing both in quick sequence. I should do that.
I suppose if I WERE to have a target speed, I'd say that anything under 40mph is just too slow. But my movement speed gets zero slotting priority. It's just something I pick up as a side effect while working on other things. -
Quote:I'm fine with that too. If something takes more effort, I'm willing to give it higher peak performance as a reward for that effort. (Buff Regen!Originally Posted by Nihilii
Basically, I'd say Brutes are better if played well, and add Brutes SHOULD be better if played well, because player skill plays a bigger role than on Scrappers. Balance discussion between both ATs that disregard this difference can only apply to a very specific subset of players.
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I like Brutes OK, and don't remember having much trouble maintaining decent fury on mine (been a while), but I'm not all that fond of red side overall, and despite having a preference for hard targets, still like to just hop in at full attack strength and not have to work up to it.
Hmmm, other than being red side, I do think I enjoyed my Super Strength/Willpower Brute as much as an average Scrapper, maybe more. I'll probably give Brutes another try with Going Rogue if I can mostly stay away from red side. -
I have no run speed target. For that matter, I have no jump speed target. But almost every character gets Hurdle + Combat Jumping.
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DM/SD
It's gone from flavor of the month to a beloved classic, and for good reason. It's an excellent combination, arguably the strongest Scrapper combination for some high end play. Farming... well, that's not one of its strengths, though the fault lies with DM, not SD. Still, add Fireball to the combo, and you should do pretty well. A lot better than Dark Melee/Willpower in any case. -
I still have Sands of Mu on my bar on pretty much every toon, including a couple Dark Melee. I use it if I've got a crowd in front of me. But once I start cranking up the difficulty, it turns into "Sands of Miss" since it's hard to hit uplevel enemies with it. Situationally useful, though.
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Quote:THAT I agree with. Much as I'm a numbers guy, and as much as I love DPS discussions, I also recognize that single-target DPS isn't very important for most of the game. I believe that burst and AoE both tend to be more important, just more difficult to quantify. And then of course you have survivability, utility, general contribution to teams, data mining of various things that only the devs can do properly, and so on. A Brute vs. Scrapper balance discussion should involve MUCH more than single target DPS comparisons. As Bill points out, that wasn't really the intent of the thread, but to some extent, it is what it became.Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Comparing Brute damage output vs. Scrapper output in basically a ST test vacuum was followed with a great deal of complaining about 'Brute Damage' output combined with their higher survivability potential and thinly veiled nerf/buff sentiments.
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Generally, the main point of the recharge bonus with SR is to do better damage. Shield Defense still beats it for damage, so not really a positive in favor of SR.
Honestly, I can't think of anything that DM/SR does better than DM/SD.
Maybe one... if the nerf comes, it won't be SR getting nerfed.
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I'll generally slot either the Kismet + Tactics or Kismet + Focused Accuracy. I fight uplevel, and I hate to miss. But you should be fine for most content with just Focused Accuracy and some decent slotting.
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Quote:In a team setting, we're talking mostly about AoE damage and possible buffs, and everything gets VERY murky.Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
I'd be very interested to see comparisons of damage output in a team setting, with external +damage bonuses applied.
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So, you like Sands of Mu? How much more would you like it if you could enhance its damage, accuracy, endurance and recharge? You want Shadow Maul.
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Really only Super Reflexes and Shield Defense make the soft cap fairly easy, and it's easiest on Super Reflexes. But compared to Shield Defense, you're giving up a lot, particularly for an AoE scrapper.
Also keep in mind that while we seem to spend a lot of time taking about soft-capped defenses on the forum, you can have a perfectly-viable scrapper without them. Secondaries that make soft-capping difficult make up for it in other ways - damage, heals, resistance, etc. There is very little you'll see in the game where the rule would be "go soft cap or go home".
Besides, purples are plentiful. Want to be at the soft cap for a particularly nasty fight? Take purples as required. -
Quote:With Katana/Regen, you avoid most of the melee attacks, and assuming you're also built for defense, a lot of the ranged and AoE attacks as well. You're also at the hit point cap from Dull Pain, so that when big attacks get through, they don't kill you. And being Regen, that which doesn't kill you fast can't kill you at all. So yeah, it can hold up rather well. Perhaps not the ideal combination for the job, but a good one.Originally Posted by Janel
Even though from first hand experience of soloing AV's i have to say Kat/Regan can hold up rather well.
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I don't have a catalog of AVs and damage, but I'd guess that a typical big hit is probably something like 1500 damage before resistance. They tend to have a lot of smaller attacks, of course.
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Quote:Yes, I think I get what you're saying. But in that case, you perhaps should have said "On a Dark Armor Scrapper I wouldn't suggest it" instead of "On a scrapper I know you can't."Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Well, In General I don't consider that a "build" with softcapping. Its a toon that'll just sit there softcapped, but is by no means a "build" if you get what i'm saying.
The first is your opinion on how people should build for maximum effectiveness. That's cool. I probably wouldn't soft cap a Fiery Melee/Electric Armor or a Spines/Dark Armor either. But to say that you can't is incorrect, which is why we gave you counterexamples. You don't have to LIKE the builds for them to be counterexamples.
I half agree with you here. The conversation was more about Spines/Dark, or at least about doing some serious AoE damage, which isn't one of Broad Sword or Katana's strengths. So yeah, we're probably not talking about Broad Sword or Katana. But again, the stated question was simply if it was possible to get to the soft cap with Dark Armor as a secondary. And your answer was that it was not possible. Except that it IS possible. When no primary is stated, Katana and Broad Sword are possible primaries, and thus seem relevant to the question. We can of course debate whether it's advisable or not. I'd say yes it's advisable with Katana or Broad Sword - my soft-capped Katana/Dark is my toughest Scrapper. I'm not sure about other primaries. I'm going to guess that it probably isn't advisable, particularly if, like the OP, you're looking for a hard core AoE scrapper. But there's really no debate on whether or not it's possible. It's possible.Quote:Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Again, that is not softcapping. For one, ranged isn't fully there, on a tiny note neither is aoe. Two, that's ONLY because of parry/divine avalanche, you can't consider those when someone is mentioning a general "softcapping" unless they are explicitly asking about techniques on doing so for a BS/Katana user. -
Quote:Well, if not a fix, I'd at least call it a decent kluge and a gigantic buff. It significantly improved the DPS of the weapon sets. It also made them flow a lot better visually. I was worried that it was too much of a buff, but it turns out it wasn't overpowering.Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
AHA, thank you!
Not sure I really call that a fix. -
Quote:Probably any Scrapper can soft cap. Shred Monkey posted a quick and dirty Fiery Melee/Electric Armor build (below) with soft-capped defenses to prove the point. Whether it's the best approach or not is a lot more debatable, but possible, yes.Originally Posted by Windenergy21
On a scrapper I know you can't...Quote:Originally Posted by squishor
Thanks. Is it possible to get soft cap if you know with dark as a secondary?
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Quote:You're doing it wrong!Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I slot my regens for lots of passive regen, even though I'm constantly told I'm wrong for doing it....but I don't care because I like being able to mow through minions all day without ever clicking a heal. And I did it wrong too. I'm with you on wanting to be able to mow through basic content without thinking about my heals. Sometimes I just want to relax and kill things. Though at this point, I play Werner so rarely that if I respec'd, I'd probably go for less regeneration and more recharge. I would just play Werner when I WANTED to have the sort of focus that's required for that. I'd play some other character when I wanted to relax, like Sergei, who's kind of mind-numbingly simple. But at the time I put Werner's build together, he was pretty much all I wanted to play.
I did roughly the same thing on Alexei, though. Built in quite a bit of passive regeneration (22 HP/sec) even though it is completely dwarfed by Dark Regeneration. But I don't want to have to use Dark Regeneration for basic content. Wish I had more passive regeneration, but there was only so much I was willing to trade for it, because, well, numbers. A lot of my fun is in the numbers, too, and in what pursuit of those numbers allow in the game. -
Keep in mind that the majority of the DPS difference you highlighted is from the power activations, not the redraw itself. And as you said, you won't be firing off those powers that fast. Chain and slotting choices are going to make a much bigger difference overall. I really don't think redraw is much of an issue in that regard, though I won't deny that it's SOME issue.
Some people just hate redraw, though. Maybe it's the constant visual reminder that you're not being all you could be. Kind of like how I can't stand hearing that "still recharging" noise in my attack chain, even if I know it's only a 0.05-second gap, say. Drives me nuts. If you find redraw annoying, then... well, then it's annoying, and you may find yourself pretty frustrated with a Claws/Regen. -
Quote:Yes. The proc is worth about 0.2 EPS on average, and its recovery can't be debuffed, though you also can't count on it since it's random. The common IO is only getting you 0.1 EPS. I'd definitely go with the proc.Originally Posted by FallenValkyrja
Question: Would I be better served with another PerfShift + %End in Physical Protection?
The recharge in your Gambler's Cut is going to leave you with tiny gaps. You want it at 1.58 seconds for DA>GC>GD>GC>DA>GC>SD>GC. It's at 1.63 seconds now. Granted, an extra 0.2 seconds across the whole chain isn't much, but you also need to consider that the chain already has a fraction of a second where the double-stack of Gambler's Cut drops. I wouldn't settle for that, but of course you don't want to break up the Mako's set either.
Since you don't have an Achilles' Heel in it, it isn't so important to spam Gambler's Cut. Can you pull off DA>GD>GC>DA>SD>GC? Golden Dragonfly wants to be at 6.60 seconds for that, and is as 6.95, so you have a gap there too, though at least the double-stack doesn't drop. I guess I'm suggesting that you put more recharge in Golden Dragonfly. -
I'd laugh at any Tankers thinking they can out-DPS any of Shred Monkey's Scrappers, of course. Easily proven - point them towards the nearest pylon. A few Tankers should be able to take down a pylon, but not many, and it'll be slow going even for the best of them. But some Tankers WILL outdamage some Scrappers, just like some Scrappers have better survivability than some Tankers. The two ATs do overlap.
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Let's see, on paper, I got a near perma-Hasten Invulnerability/Super Strength Tanker up to 135 DPS. On paper, I got a near perma-Hasten Martial Arts/Super Reflexes Scrapper up to 216 DPS.
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Idono. Because the rest of the pool is so great? Yeah, I know that's not a valid reason.