Umbral

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I currently have level 30 IO's
1 Acc, 1End Redux, 1 recharge redux, and 2 damage each.

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Yeah, use the procs.

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So, I got my DM/WP brute up to 32 nad have the final slots in Shadow Punch and Smite. My question is whether or not to put the Perfect Zinger chance for psionic damage into these two powers, or a normal damage IO?

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It depends heavily on what you've got slotted in there. If you're near the redzone already, you're better off with the Perfect Zinger proc definitely. If you're not, then it depends. Shadow Punch's damage so low that the proc is better than any other enhancement pretty much. Smite's damage is high enough that it's actually worth the damage enhancement. The important thing to remember is that the Perfect Zinger proc isn't affected by your +dam so it's a static value.

Here are some quick numbers to think about:
An even level SO in Brute Shadow Punch grants 11.7 extra damage. An even level SO in Brute Smite grants 18.3 extra damage. The Perfect Zinger proc grants an extra 14.36 damage (on average) no matter what power you slot it in.

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though i am curious as to why you'd pass up PF with it being a passive +5def ...

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PF gives you 3.75% defesne when solo.

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not for a TANKER

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sorry didn't see it was for a Tanker because you know this is the Scrappers Forums.

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The OP did actually make specific mention of it, so, however you take it...

Anyone else noticing an amusing trend that lots of other ATs are coming to the Scrapper forums to get answers concerning their number crunching/build woes?

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I've gotten my Fire/Fire Blazing Brat up to the 40's, and have learned to auction and craft for fun and profit. To the point where I can actually start buying those shiney purple things. So I'm really lusting after Ragnarok, in a Mila Jovovich covered in chocolate sort of way. I'm wondering if it would work better in Fireball or Rain of Fire. Does the Knockdown proc only work on the initial hit, or does it have a chance with each tick? Seems like that would be too much nerfworthy fun, but wanted to Ask The Experts before plunking that rascal anywhere.

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Procs checks against every target affected by the power once per 10 seconds per individual activation. For instantaneous effects like Fireball and Fire Blast, this means it checks just once. For longer term effects, like Rain of Fire and every toggle in the game, this means that it will check once every 10 seconds. Because Rain of Fire lasts 15 seconds, it will check once upon the first tick and again on the first tick after 10 seconds is up.

Honestly, it depends pretty heavily on what you want the proc to do for you. Personally, I've never really put much trust in it so I don't use the proc at all. If you really want to use it, Fireball is the power you want to put it in. You'll use Fireball more than twice as often as you'll use Rain of Fire from a pure recharge standpoint.

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I'm just used to puttin lotg in a togg or passive, does it auto the same way in an attack or is it a proc.

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It's a static bonus like the steadfast and gladiator's +def, KB protection IOs, and the kismet +tohit. There are 2 easy ways to tell if something is considered a "set bonus" or a proc: when you log in and don't have any toggles turned on, check your combat attributes, if the buff is still there, it's a "set bonus"; the other option is just to look for a duration, if it lacks one, it's a "set bonus".

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Here's the scenario: 47% defense to all positions already, and a level 49 power pick of either phalanx fighting or grant cover.
In your opinion, would the extra 5% defense (this is for a tank, but I find the scrapper forums so much more informative) from phalanx fighting be more beneficial than the 17.3% defense debuff resistance from grant cover? Keep in mind I run an ITF almost every night, so I will be running into debuffs regularly.

Edited for grammar

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Considering you're already above the softcap, 5% more +def isn't really going to do much aside from turn aside a single sword debuff. Grant Cover, on the other hand, will give you other debuff resistance (30% -rech resist), slow down the speed at which you actually feel those debuffs, and keep the people close to you alive (rather than the generally redundant vice versa).

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Certain attacks in the game diminish based on distance, so it stands to reason that it might be possible to have the aura diminish as the distance from the user increases.

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I don't believe that there are any attacks in game that have diminished damage based on range. It's technically possible (creating nested cones), but I don't believe it's ever actually been done.

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The methods he used here are more akin to those used by anthropologists than by legitimate psychologists and sociologists. He personally labels himself as a sociologist but the Twixt experiment isn't really set up as a sociological experiment and reads more closely to an anthropology paper. To me, there seems to be a definite mismatch between what he called himself and how he actually behaves (as far as Twixt is concerned).

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And you know this because you are an anthropologist or sociologist? You are quite critical of those disciplines. Do you have an appropriate background to make the statements that you did?

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I got 75% of the way through my Bachelor's in Psychology (with a dual major in CS) before deciding there wasn't enough actual interest in the psychological field I was interested in (Human Computer Interfacing, if you're curious) and switched down to a CS degree with a minor in Psychology. Having actually designed and run several psych experiments while helping with several Anthro and Socio studies, I'm reasonably sure that I've been exposed enough to have developed a reasonably accurate heuristic involving all three disciplines.

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Or are we adding restrictions like this the same way that we solo AVs without inspirations - because it's harder?

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I'm completely fine with whatever restrictions people feel like imposing. Personally, I think it makes the building process a bit more interesting and requires a bit of out-of-the-box thinking, especially for those of us that are rather ingrained in our certain build concepts (I never would have though about the idea of a +def based dm/regen until I saw the softcapped kat/regen concept build).

As to what's on topic now, I think it's safe to say that we're now discussing fire/shield, swords only, seamless attack chain, softcapped defense.

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So about how much recharge would i need to run SP - SL - Smite - MG? or possible Smite - SL - SM - MG seamlessly?

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SP has an Arcanatime of 1.056. Siphon has an Arcanatime of 2.112. Smite has an Arcanatime of 1.188. Midnight Grasp has an Arcanatime of 2.244.

SP>Smite>Siphon>MG would require 245% +recharge in Midnight Grasp to run seamlessly (recharge down to 4.356 secs). Shadow Punch wouldn't require anything (has to be under 5.544 secs). Smite would only require 11% (5.412 secs). Siphon Life would only require 123% (4.488 secs). It doesn't matter what order you use the attacks in, as long as the order remains constant, by the way. Smite>SP>MG>Siphon is identical to MG>Smite>Siphon>SP.

Smite>Siphon>Smite>MG only requires 235% in MG (4.488 secs). Smite requires 185% (2.112 secs). Siphon requires 117% (4.62 secs).

Smite>Siphon>Smite>MG is not only easier to slot for, it's also better damage. SP>Smite>Siphon>MG is 473.4 damage in 6.6 seconds (71.7 DPs). MG>Smite>Siphon>Smite is 506.4 damage in 6.732 seconds (75.22 DPS).

Archvillain.

The amount of resistance to the numerous types of debuffs depends upon the AV's level. At 50, the value is 85%, but it's less for lower level EB/AVs and higher for those above (also remember to apply purple patch if there are any level discrepancies).

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How about a BS/WP with soft cap defense (type), no set mules, a seemless high dps attack chain, has to have SoW, and come within 100 of the hit point cap. Epics and fighting pool and leadership pools are cool as long as powers are slotted and will be of actual use. I will not have use for boxing or kick so they would be considered set mules. And no purples or PVP IOs. My alts are poor and everything elese can be gotten with merits.

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Suggestions are not open at this time. Current discussion should remain focused on Werner's Katana/DA until such point as the discussion is concluded, at which point recommendations will be put forth and a new discussion shall be selected from there.

The idea behind this thread is to have everyone focus on a single build at a time Remain on point and be patient. If there is enough interest, the build/problems that you've got will eventually be discussed.

First things first, Rakin, please try to stick to the topic at hand: Katana/DA. When the thread shifts to build suggestions, feel free to toss out other build ideas. If there is a discussion currently going on, please refrain from posting anything except commentary directly related to the build in question.

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Heh. You probably expected me to show up in this thread on the solutions side rather than the questions side. But here's the build that's been bugging me, but I haven't spent enough time on to solve it.

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Not in the least actually. I knew that you would be one of the few people to actually post some of the more interesting and challenging builds that I've seen.

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Katana/Dark Armor:
- Soft capped positional defense (with double-stacked Divine Avalanche)
- Attack chain Divine Avalanche -> Gambler's Cut -> Golden Dragonfly -> Gambler's Cut -> Divine Avalanche -> Gambler's Cut -> Soaring Dragon -> Gambler's Cut
- Sustainable endurance (with Dark Regeneration, so stick a Theft of Essence proc in there)
- Include Oppressive Gloom or Cloak of Fear
- Include The Lotus Drops and Death Shroud so that it isn't just a single-target monster
- Include Tough and slot the resists (Obsidian Shield optional, no specific numeric goal, but more is better)
- 95%+ chance to hit +4s
- Hurdle and Combat Jumping
- Travel power optional
- 1700+ hit points
- Decent passive regeneration (20+ HP/sec?)
- Does not need to be exemplar-friendly
- Unlimited budget

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Here is my most recent attempt. I haven't looked at it for a while, but I think it fell short on the sustainable endurance requirement. The empty slot in Combat Jumping is for the PvP +resistance unique. One of the two Steadfast Protections is taking the place of the PvP +defense unique.

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Honestly, I'd agree that it does pretty much everything you're asking of it rather admirably, though I'd contest the issue of it not having sustainable, though it depends heavily on what weight we give the various endurance powers you're using.

First off, we've got to figure out current costs and recoveries. The attack string you want costs 28.19 end over 10.428 seconds for an average drain of 2.703 end/sec, combined with your toggle costs of 1.51 end/sec for a total of 4.213. Your baseline recovery is 3.69 end/sec. That leaves only a rather small drain of .523 end/sec. Assuming you don't have to use Dark Regen at all (which is rather likely considering the amount of defense and resistance you're packing) and aren't using Conserve Power, it would take 213.77 seconds in order for you to run out of endurance.

The Theft of Endurance proc grants, on average, 2 endurance per target hit. There's more than enough accuracy and +tohit to assure 95% chance to hit, so it's only a question of how many targets we're going to assume are present for each click in question. If it's for AVs, it would make the most sense to assume a single target available, which pulls the average cost of Dark Regen down to 16.9 end (95% chance to hit remember). If it's for saturated fights, at which point we can expect to ignore the chance to hit thanks to streakbreaker requiring 20 targets to be in range to ensure 10 hits, the average cost is actually a benefit of 1.2 end. If it's used every recharge cycle (15.8 + 1.32 = 17.12 secs), it's going to cost roughly .98 end/sec (16.9/17.12). At saturation, it's not large enough to count for much but still functionally free (-1.2/17.12 = -.07 end/sec). For single targets, it's still got a rather significant cost.

Now, the big thing that is going to be your saving grace is Conserve Power. It's got an uptime of 22.8%, but, during this time, your endurance costs are pulled down to .87 end/sec from toggles and 1.581 end/sec from your attack string (16.49 end over 10.428 secs). ST Dark Regen cost gets reduced to 9.4 end/use for .55 end/sec (9.4/17.12), and saturated Dark Regen cost actually becomes a substantial net benefit (-8.7 end/17.12 secs = -.51 end/sec). Totaled up, without Dark Regen, you've got a net cost of 2.451 end/sec offset by a net gain of 3.69 end/sec for a net gain of 1.239 end/sec. With a loss of .523 end/sec outside of CP and a 1.239 end/sec net gain when it's active along with the 22% uptime, you've still got a minor net loss (.25 end/sec), but it's much less than you'd think and only whenever you're fighting a single target, at which point you're actually gaining substantially.

The best way to actually get completely end sustainable would be to drop a slot in some other power (re: Build Up) and put it into Conserve Power. This would increase the uptime percent to 28.8%, allowing you to have a net loss of only .166 end/sec overall.

The only times you should ever have endurance issues is when you're facing a single hard target and plan on only facing that single target for night upon 3 minutes. Any other time (numerous targets, faster kill, etc), you should be more than fine.

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This is why I have a horrible dislike for Anthropologists. They liken themselves to Psychologists and Sociologists insofar as using observation to determine relationships and effects yet believe that, in order to properly observe, one must actually join said system, completely ignoring the fact that their very presence alters the system.

[/ QUOTE ]And this is why I have a horrible dislike for generalizations. No Anthropologist that I have met has ever held this to be a necessity, and I've met a fair few, seeing as both my parents had strong backgrounds in it (one an Anthropologist, and the other an Archeologist).

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Considering all of the Anthropologists I've met (and I've met a number of them at my school since I tend to hang out with the grad students rather than hanging out with the undergrads like I'm supposed to), it's turned out to be a rather accurate heuristic. Of course, I don't mean to apply it to everyone, but a vast majority of the Anthropologists I've met (which is a rather specialized subset considering my location) act and think in this way.

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Where does it say he's an anthropologist? All I see is that he is "media professor" and his website says he works in the Department of Mass Communication.

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The methods he used here are more akin to those used by anthropologists than by legitimate psychologists and sociologists. He personally labels himself as a sociologist but the Twixt experiment isn't really set up as a sociological experiment and reads more closely to an anthropology paper. To me, there seems to be a definite mismatch between what he called himself and how he actually behaves (as far as Twixt is concerned).

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Umby, think you could beat it with your build if someone offered like a FFer?

(hey, the scrapper got to use monkies )

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Considering I don't have a Fire/Elec, much less one decked out in a rather expensive build, I doubt it. The build was simply a demonstration of number crunching.

(And stop calling me Umby. I'm a Scrapper not a house pet. )

Shadow Punch: .83 secs >> 1.056 secs
Smite: .97 secs >> 1.188 secs
Siphon Life: 1.93 secs >> 2.112 secs

2 Shadow Punch + 2 Smite + 1 Siphon Life = 6.6 secs

Mainly because I've been a bit bored, but also because I like a challenge and having people set me up with them rather than finding myself (I'm a problem solver, not a problem finder), I've decided to start a thread to serve this.

The rules are as follows: come up with any pairing of primary and secondary for a Scrapper. Then, give some quantifiable requirements for the build (seamless attack string, maximum functional defense, end sustainability, perma-Hasten, etc) and then anyone who wants to (most definitely myself) will post builds, suggestions, hints, and other useful commentary on how to achieve those goals within the assigned parameters (key word "useful").

As to how we'll get other builds, after general consensus (re: ~2 posters call for it), the floor opens to suggestions and the current discussion will end. Anyone can suggest whatever they feel like (as long as it's within the guidelines) as long as it's not a rehash of something that's already been done (unless of course there have actually been some game changes that make the discussion sensible). When general consensus (re: ~3-4 people) agree that it's time to discuss one of the suggestions, we'll hop to it.

Basic process: suggest>choose>build/discuss>repeat

To get us started, we'll let loose on the first suggestion that appears. Any takers with some interesting problems?

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so, theoretically Umby's build could do it in about 4:20?

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Yeah he could but he'd be using inspirations in order to survive.

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I would actually expect the offer of "If you can manage a build that does this, we'll get you survivability assists to make sure that you do" still stands. It's not a question of DPS while solo, which is a completely separate issue. It's not a question of functional DPS which is a completely separate issue and only really important in the absence of any other -regen effects. It was simply a question of pure DPS in an environment ignorant of survivability issues.

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*/Anything.

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Most entertaining scrapper I've played.

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Fixed that for you.

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I think what I was more getting at is this: in making generalizations about Anthropologists, you dissed mah momma! I'ma getchu for dat one!

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Ooh! A threat by the child of a pair of soft scientists! I'm so scurred!

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Well why can't they make it not to throw bananas? And I didn't exactly want colour customization.

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And now you need to do some research on how the game performs the various power animations in order to answer those questions because I don't feel like explaining it to someone who doesn't know the least bit about how the game engine actually operates again. You may as well be asking why the energy blasts animate as they do, electrical blasts look the way they do, and every other variant thereof involved ranged animations.

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I am feeling a little left out in the RWZ and in the Vanguards because I'm a spine/reg. Stalker. I've been thinking why no custom spines? I think it sounds stupid, but when you think about it, it could be a good idea. I mean customizable spines like:
Normal spines(current)
Rigid Spines(Spikey, notched)
Metalic(Dark sharp spines, shiney)
Metalic Rigid(Dark sharp, spikey/notched, shiney)
Talsorian (Metal plugs that stick out from the body that emit the laser type spine weapon)

I hope this is okay. I'm sure there will be problems, so please help me out here so we won't be left out.

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The reason why the Spines aren't customizable is because, if they were, you could have purple spines on your body and the spines you'd be throwing/using would still be brown bananas. With power customization in I16, it might be more feasible to get some customized spines, but, as it stands, there is a reason why it's not done.

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Personally, I think they should have included debuff resistance as a baseline set bonus. The mez resistance is pretty meh, but being able to stack up some decent debuff resistance would actually be useful.

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fixed.

Sorry Umbral, but after you caught my snafu, I couldn't resist.

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This is what I get for posted right after work...

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You're so precise 99.99% of the time, this doesn't even budge your scrapper cred.

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I can't even post my response right. >.< Umbral not having a good day today.

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Personally, I think they should have included debuff resistance as a baseline set bonus. The mez resistance is pretty meh, but being able to stack up some decent debuff resistance would actually be useful.

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fixed.

Sorry Umbral, but after you caught my snafu, I couldn't resist.

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This is what I get for posted right after work...

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This is why I have a horrible dislike for Anthropologists. They liken themselves to Psychologists and Sociologists insofar as using observation to determine relationships and effects yet believe that, in order to properly observe, one must actually join said system, completely ignoring the fact that their very presence alters the system.

[/ QUOTE ]And this is why I have a horrible dislike for generalizations. No Anthropologist that I have met has ever held this to be a necessity, and I've met a fair few, seeing as both my parents had strong backgrounds in it (one an Anthropologist, and the other an Archeologist).

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Considering all of the Anthropologists I've met (and I've met a number of them at my school since I tend to hang out with the grad students rather than hanging out with the undergrads like I'm supposed to), it's turned out to be a rather accurate heuristic. Of course, I don't mean to apply it to everyone, but a vast majority of the Anthropologists I've met (which is a rather specialized subset considering my location) act and think in this way.