Umbral
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Quote:That's specifically what he's talking about. He said they were taking the outgoing damage down to 10% (i.e. 1 - .9), not down by 10% (i.e. 1 - .1).Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
In fact, by my calculations, increasing your survivability by 900%, or 9 times, would require 90% damage debuff, or:
Of course, this should be prefaced by saying that the massive debuff benefits that most people are experiencing with the Chem rounds are not really a function of the potency of the powerset but more a function of -dam in general and the general lack of resistance to it (since the only things that resist it are purple patch and damage resistance). -Dam is strong, especially when you start fighting hard targets that are supposed to be especially resistance to debuffs but have no defense to -dam. The fact that Chem rounds gets access to it (and Defenders actually get decent values from it) doesn't really make the set powerful, especially when you're pretty much forced to have multiple users focusing fire on a single target to get the vaunted benefit kind of renders the point null. I'm reasonably sure that you're not going to see nearly the same level of usefulness in the broad spectrum game, especially when the slow build up -dam of the Chem Ammunition has to contend with the instantaneous large -dam of similar -dam powers in secondary sets. It's like comparing the -tohit effects of Dark Blast against the -tohit effects of Dark Miasma.
The bigger issue is also that -dam does, and always will unless something changes, have a substantially bigger effect upon NPCs than it does upon players. There is a whole slew of screwiness involved in the debuffs in CoX and how they're horribly imbalanced thanks to how the game works and everything interacts because NPCs and PCs have access to completely different mechanisms.
Getting back to the point, when the only laudable capability of the set is that, if you have a number of other users of that same set, you can stack up a debuff to do some pretty crazy things, that's not really an advantage. Get together a couple of Dark Defenders and they'll do the exact same thing without having to reduce their damage in order to accomplish it. Having to get any number of the same set together in order to accomplish anything isn't a good way to say that a set is balanced.
Moving back to the switching of ammunition, the ability to manipulate damage types is nice, except that, with only 30% changing, you're not generating much improvement. CoT Behemoths have 20% resistance to fire, 20% weakness to cold and no weakness or resistance to lethal damage. When your damage is comprised of 70% lethal and 30% other, the difference between Cryo and Incendiary Ammunition is a matter of 12% (.7 + .3 * .8 = .94 v. .7 + .3 * 1.2 = 1.06). This seems all well and good because you're getting "bonus damage" for switching ammunition except that Incendiary Ammunition actually generates roughly 15-20% more damage per attack thanks to the bonus DoTs. You're not actually gaining any damage by switching off of Incendiary Ammunition. In fact, you're dealing exactly the same damage because it's actually (.7 + (.3 + .15) * .8 = 1.06), assuming that the contribution only amounts to a 15% increase (it's actually substantially higher for many attacks). All you're really getting out of the bargain is DP's mediocre -rech.
Against Carnies, you'd still deal more damage with Incendiary Ammo (discounting PR's -res against a small number of targets) because 70% of your damage is still benefiting from the 20% weakness (.7 * 1.2 + .3 * 1.2 = 1.2 v. .7 * 1.2 + .3 + .15 = 1.29). An enemy group would need to have 50% weakness to lethal damage before it became preferential to use Standard Ammo over Incendiary Ammo (especially if you quick swapped into Standard when firing PR and out afterwards). Changing damage types just doesn't mean much when damage resistances are so comparatively insignificant for enemies and the percent of your damage type you're changing is so small. Incendiary Ammunition is still the best option for outright dealing damage. -
Quote:Gah. >.< You're right. Even so, the OP is talking about assuming the damage cap, so Soul Drain isn't really adding anything. -Res is going to do more than more +dam.Originally Posted by Ethric
Isn't Poisonous Ray's -Res (and -Def) set not to stack from the same caster?
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Quote:You can actually pump out more damage with mace mastery because of Poisonous Ray. A 30 second 18.75% -res debuff on a base 24 second recharge? With decent recharge, you can stack that up more than 3 times. 60-75% -res is nothing to laugh at.Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Check out perma /Fire Doms that cycle Soul Drain and Fiery Embrace every 30 seconds. They pump out damage like crazy. Add in confusion and/or multiple pets for good measure.
Blaze->Fire Blast->Incinerate
Thank you Domination for the endurance hack. -
Quote:Ice is nice and elec is decent, but the best I've seen that actually did the math right was a fire/elec blaster that just barely scraped past 300. I believe there was a fire/fire (or it might have been Fire/Psy or Fire/Stone) Dom that managed roughly 325 DPS (or more) without factoring in pet damage contribution. Keep in mind, these assumed only native damage buffs, so they weren't really damage capped.Originally Posted by doyler_
My best bet so far has been an ice/elec blaster, but even that seems like its 373 dps could easily be outshined...?
If you're going for utterly damage capped, a Brute is probably your best bet. Aside from Stalkers (which need to have a full team near by), Brutes have the best peak damage capability because of their obscene damage cap. Combine this with a set like Stone Melee and you've easily got a metric boatload of damage capability. -
Quote:I'm still pretty much sticking with what I've been describing.Originally Posted by theduke24
Does anyone have a build to post? I have no idea what to put in it now lol
Dark Manipulation -
1. New Power - Clone of Ice Manip Chilblain except for neg dmg and 7.5% -tohit for 11.8 secs
2. Shadow Punch - 1.96 nrg/sma base damage scalar, 5.63% -tohit for 9.9 secs
3. Death Shroud - Clone of Fire Manip Blazing Aura except for neg dmg
4. Smite - 2.6 nrg/sma base damage scalar, 5.63% -tohit for 14.8 secs
5. Build Up
6. Touch of Fear - Direct clone of Scrapper version
7. Dark Consumption - Clone of Consume except for neg dmg
8. Dark Regeneration - Clone of Scrapper version except for 120 sec recharge
9. Dark Pit (or new name) - 40 sec recharge, 15.9 sec duration mag 2 stun, 10' radius PbAoE
Dark Blast -
1. Dark Blast - 1 sec animation, 1 neg base scalar damage, 5.63% -tohit for 6 secs, 5.2 end, 4 sec recharge
2. Gloom - 1.67 sec animation, 8 * .22 neg base scalar over 3.6 secs, 5.63% -tohit for 10 secs, 8.528 end, 8 sec recharge
3. Moonbeam
4. Aim
5. Dark Obliteration - 1 sec cast, .9 neg base scalar damage, 5.63% -tohit for 10 secs, 80' range, 15' radius, 16 targets max, 15.184 end cost, 16 sec recharge
6. Night Fall
7. New Power - 1.848 sec animation, 2.2 base scalar damage, 10 sec recharge, 10.4 end cost
8. Life Drain
9. Black Star
Conversely, if you really want Torrent and don't think Life Drain would be a decent replacement for an ST hard control power, Life Drain could be given the Siphon Life treatment and have its damage increased to a roughly 2.0-2.2 damage scalar. The recharge would probably need to remain the same to justify having a hard hitting self heal power, but it would fulfill the same functional role. Either way works for me, honestly. -
Quote:If you don't want to burn a respec or force yourself to go through a number of levels with what is now considered suboptimal slotting, you could always just go to a trainer and switch over to your alternate build and do that one "right". The only costs you would accrue would be buying new SOs, so it's not all that bad.Originally Posted by Athryn
Thanks! I had a feeling that it was something like that, (like I said, it's been a loooong time,) so I'm not too sad. I'll just have to deal with the new order and modify my build accordingly. Thanks for the reply.
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Quote:To clarify, there are actually now 2 "Official Forums" formatting codes in the Mids' formatting list: one at the top and one at the bottom. Do not use the one at the top ("Official Forums (UBB.threads)") because it is the formatting code for the old forums. Scroll down to the bottom of the list and you'll see "Official Forums (vBulletin)". This is the proper one to use.Originally Posted by Silverado
You messed up the code, and most importantly you didn't post the data chunk.
Try exporting the build using either the vBulletin code or no code at all (plain text) and make sure you include the data chunk/link next time. -
Quote:There is a difference between having a power move in relation to an anchor point and shifting an anchor point. Both of those actions describe what amounts to moving in relation to a specific anchor point. I specifically remember BABs telling us that actually shifting an anchor point so that the weapon is anchored to a different location on the haft wasn't possible, or, at the very least, was incredibly complicated.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Well, precedent for weapons moving away from their anchor points already exists in the game in a few powers. Broadswrod and family have a Taunt which sees the character juggling the sword, which visibly leaves the hand. More recently, Dual Pistols' Piercing Rounds sees you toss both guns through the air and see them do spectacular spins and twirls. Obviously, animating weapons that have a non-static link between model and anchor point position and orientation is POSSIBLE. That was never in question. The question is if this is a viable mechanic to use for more complicated actions.
The problem isn't so much that the calculations are difficult. The problem is teaching the game to make those calculations based on the incredibly varied models that the game has. The biggest problem with animations and models in CoX isn't making sure they occur. From what BABs, Jay, and other have said, the biggest problem is making sure that they work across every body type. This problem is exacerbated by the long hafted weapons because the margin of error (as defined by how difficult it is to see that something isn't right) is substantially smaller.Quote:The theory behind this is actually relatively straightforward mathematics, but this is more a question of how City of Heroes implements those animation systems than how such motion would be described in 3D space.
The animation would have to be substantially more complex than the animations you mentioned because it's forcing the rest of the weapon to orient itself to the relative placement of two different hand positions rather than the normal orientation that is used by the simpler animations. In other terms (in case that doesn't quite make sense), rather than having to be oriented based on single point of balance, the long hafted weapons would have to be oriented based on the relative positions of two different points. It's a lot simply to say "make a perfectly straight line" when it only has to go through one point because, no matter what angle it passes through at, it's straight. As soon as you add a second point that the straight weapon has to orient itself towards, a problem arises because there is only a single line that passes through both points at the exact same angle. There is a certain amount of leeway, but the fact that the distance between the two of them is longer means that it has to be much more precise. -
The problem with long hafted weapons in CoX isn't easily addressed. BABs has, on multiple occasions, pretty much said it's not happening because of the inability to do the crazy spinny things that players would want from such powers and sets.
The problem has to do with locational anchors for the weapons. It's possible to anchor a single weapon to multiple body points, but the problem is that, unlike real life, weapons are anchored to body points, not the other way around and, because of the very nature of a game in which the models can have a near-infinite variety of body shapes, it's impossible to force every linked body point to form a straight line with the line of the weapon itself.
If weapons were anchored to multiple body points, if the other hand was off even a little, the entire area of the weapon between the two body points would be bent compared to the rest of the weapon.
Another problem is that, as far as we know (and I think BABs might have actually explicitly told us this as well, but I'm not sure), it's not possible to manipulate an anchor point. Essentially, you'd be holding on the same spot on any long handed weapon with whatever body anchor it was attached too. When you're dealing with a long hafted weapon where grip shifting is actually a rather large part of learning to fight with it, this doesn't really look good or make much sense, especially when you're trying to do many of the more spectacular and visually stunning attacks that people would probably expect. Now, one workaround that I conceived of (though I'm not entirely sure is possible thanks to not having an intimate knowledge of the system), is to simply leave the anchor points alone but manipulate the weapon itself with each attack so that the portions of the weapon would extend or contract based on the needed weapon grip. If your grip were shifting down the haft, the game would act as if the shaft below the anchor point was shrinking and the shaft above it was growing. Visually, this would look pretty much identical to just shifting your grip. Even so, this isn't really an effective solution because there are other problems unless the devs can manage to generate some pretty sophisticated calculation functions to calculate angles between each body point and force the angle of the weapon to follow that angle rather than the angle specified by the normal animation.
Now, the current animations that look like there are 2 body point anchors accomplish this by making one of the other hands move roughly to the right spot without ever anchoring onto the weapon and simply using the clipping mechanism the engine uses to make it look like it's holding on to the weapon. It's actually possible, thanks to this lack of anchoring of the other hand, to have the unanchored hand completely unattached to the weapon itself. There was a rather famous screencap a few years ago of a katana wielder that had manipulated the body scales to such an extent that the left hand (the unanchored one) wasn't touching the Katana at all, even though it was making a fist.
Now, Katana gets away with this because the distance between the two hands isn't significant. It takes a lot of scale manipulation in order to generate a significant visible difference in hand placement. When you begin attempting to do this with long hafted weapons, the distance between your grip is going to be orders of magnitude larger than the difference in grip distance with a Katana. Because of this, you'd have to do a lot less than you would for a Katana to make it apparent that your off hand isn't even touching the haft. -
Quote:Okay, let's go over this really slow for you.Originally Posted by Scythus
You'll also note that only lethal, cryo, and chem rounds are slightly below AR and Archery on that list. Fire rounds; however, surpass all three and then some. The set's fine. Great way to disprove your arguments about DP being weak.
Incendiary Ammunition sacrifices any mitigatory secondary effect for additional damage.
Cryo, Chem, and Standard do not.
Fire Blast sacrifices any mitigatory secondary effect for additional damage.
AR, Archery, and Rad do not.
Incendiary Ammunition should be above the other sets because it's sacrificing secondary effect, which all of the other sets have while being fully effective AoE sets. Cryo, Chem, and Standard should be on par with those because they're providing a secondary benefit. -
Quote:My build uses purples but that doesn't mean the math requires purples. 55% +rech is actually quite easy to get. I would personally got for 5 5% +rech set bonuses (3-4 Doctored Wounds, 1-2 Obliteration, 0-1 Crushing Impact) and 4 LotG 7.5% +rech, which gets you a nice, clean 55% +rech global. The math I did assumed 95% +rech in both Hasten and Dull Pain, but 3 level 50 common IOs give you 99.08% +rech from enhancement and 5 piece Doctored Wounds (all but Heal/End) would give you 97.5%, so the requirements are actually a little bit less under those conditions.Originally Posted by Shadowraithe
I believe his build uses purples though. I've been trying to do it without purples and I don't think it is possible to pull off recharge, regen and defense without them.
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Quote:Enhancement Diversification. Get a tissue if you need it. It will make you wail and begin gnashing your teeth.Originally Posted by Athryn
I have noticed a lot of builds don't have Hasten or Quick Recovery 6-slotted anymore, I assume that's no longer necessary?
You can't respec out of your primary or second.Quote:Also, I was thinking about respeccing out of Regeneration (if I even can) since I am playing exclusively with a Empathy/Darkness Defender now.
I would just go with the Kat/Regen build I posted earlier.Quote:Anyway, any tips on how to fine tune this character for leveling (with above Defender) would be awesome. -
Quote:Considering the set is used by Blasters, Corrupters, and Defenders, I'm going to say "no". The animations may be inspired by those movies, but the game effects aren't.Originally Posted by MentalMidget
If the dual pistol is designed after Wanted/Equilibrium type style of combat, it would make sense that the attacks be defensive as well. The +def would be only active during the longish animations.
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Quote:One reason would be that you can't have 5 power pools (the build I gave you has Speed, Leaping, Leadership, and Fighting). Fitness got kicked in order to bring in Leadership.Originally Posted by Shadowraithe
Good stuff, Umbral. You da man. Thanks alot. I was trying to work into something like that but I couldn't get it quite right. Good eye.
One question. Why no stamina? I thought stamina would be better than physical perfection?
The other reason would be that, the way I've slotted Physical Perfection, it actually grants more +recov than Stamina does because the Heal set procs benefit from the slotting of the power they are in, and, before anyone tries to tell me the devs "fixed" that, they didn't: all the devs changed was a bug wherein enhancing either healing or end mod enhancement in a power was enhancing both of the Numina's proc's attributes. It has been fixed so that it now only enhances the single appropriate aspect (heal enhancement benefits +regen, end mod enhancement benefits +recov), and all of the other procs were left completely alone. -
Quote:Not really. Remember, you should focus on either positional or typed defense. Getting both is rather pointless since the game takes only one or the other. Secondly, the only */Regen power that benefits from the +heal set bonus is Dull Pain, and the only part of that that gets any benefit is the heal portion, not the +hp. +Heal set bonuses are pretty much only useful for empaths, therms, and pain doms. Another point, stealth sucks. Don't grab it. It's much better to just go with Fighting because Tough + Weave is awesome.Originally Posted by Shadowraithe
I take it this would probably work out better then?
Try this build on for size. It's focused on positional defense for 32.1% +def(melee), manages 120% +rech (just shy of perma-DP), and plenty of endurance. You'll have great damage by running the Incinerate>Scorch>Cremate>Scorch attack string. If you really want more AoE damage, you could switch out GFS for Breath of Fire (probably go for a 5 piece Posi so that you'll that little bit of +rech you need in order to get perma-DP; the extra slot could go into Tough for a 4 piece Impervium Armor or SJ/SS for the 3 piece BotZ), but I found FSC to be plenty on my FM/SD.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.621
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Scorch -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), T'Death-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Heal-I(A)
Level 2: Cremate -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(7), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(9), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), T'Death-Dam%(11)
Level 4: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(13), EndMod-I(13)
Level 6: Reconstruction -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(15), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Dct'dW-Heal(17), Dct'dW-Rchg(17)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50), Winter-ResSlow(50)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(19), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Dct'dW-Heal(21), Dct'dW-Rchg(21)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(48)
Level 16: Integration -- RgnTis-Regen+(A), Numna-Heal(25), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(25), Heal-I(27)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Oblit-%Dam(31)
Level 20: Build Up -- AdjTgt-Rchg(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(31)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(33), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 26: Incinerate -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(33), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(34), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), T'Death-Dam%(36)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(36), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Dct'dW-Heal(37), Dct'dW-Rchg(37)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(39), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(39), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), T'Death-Dam%(42)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(40), LkGmblr-Def(42)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(42), RechRdx-I(43), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(43), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(45), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(45), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(45), GSFC-Build%(46)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(46), P'Shift-End%(46), P'Shift-EndMod(48), EndMod-I(50)
Level 47: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Resilience -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 4: Ninja Run -
Quote:Cycle time doesn't really mean much unless it's the cycle time you're operating under. If a power recharges in 1.5 seconds, but your attack string requires that its cycle be extended to 1.848 seconds thanks to using a 1.67 sec base activation time power after it, then assuming a calculation based off of the 1.5 second + animation time cycle isn't really going to be effective.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
what of attacks that I don't use very often, like Lightning Clap? Or, indeed, Charged Brawl, since it's a melee attack that isn't always appropriate to be used. Wouldn't that end up lowering the expected benefit of slotting endurance reduction in the power if I end up not using it as often as I could (and probably should)? I know using powers less often than their cycle suggests would drastically lower their EPS, but even though it won't affect EPA, won't that still be less of a difference?
"Small" powers end up costing more than "big" powers in an attack chain simply because fast powers add up in a long string, but if I always emphasise the the big powers and end up often all but neglecting the small ones, wouldn't this lessen the impact?
The important thing to remember is that everything hinges upon how you use your powers. If you've got Charged Brawl and Lightning Bolt and you use Lightning Bolt a lot more than Charged Brawl, it's going to make more sense to slot Lightning Bolt than it will to slot Charged Brawl (and this doesn't just apply to end redux). The various weights of the attributes of each power can weigh the benefits more heavily towards slotting one or the other but the final determiner, even when comprehensively analyzed, isn't damage, activation time or recharge: it's how often you actually use the power. Cycle time just determines how often you can use it. Whether you do or not (and how often you do actually use it) is a much more influential variable. -
Personally, I don't slot any of my attacks for endurance reduction until I start moving into IOs. I have no problem popping some blue candy if my bar goes low.
However, if I did, I would most definitely slot it into those attacks that I use often and have the highest damage per activation second simply because I'd be getting the best bang for my slot. Because endurance and damage have a rather direct relationship thanks to the dam/rech/end formula, this also means that those attacks that have the best DPAs also tend to have the worst EPAs. Of course, because of the dam/rech/end formula ignoring animation time, the attacks with the best DPAs, fastest cycle times, and worst EPAs also tend to be those attacks that have short animations.
In short, yes, even though it seems counter-intuitive, slotting your "small" attacks will net you the most bang for your buck.
Now, if your curious as to why this seems so counter-intuitive, it's actually rather simple: humans suck at paying attention. We really do. 25 endurance for single power seems like a lot, especially compared to that other attack that uses 5 endurance. However, when you're using that 5 end attack almost 8 times more than you're using that 25 end attack, you finally see why. 25 just seems to be so much more than 5 when you don't have a relative context to put the two of them in. -
Quote:Which most sets have. The only set without a ranged hold or stun is Fire. And that's because Fire's schtick is absolute burnination.Originally Posted by Dispari
It has a stun/hold (depending on what you want).
Except that you can only have some of those active at any one time. You get chance for KB/DS, -def and -res or -dmg or -rech and -speed or rolling fire DoTs. Of course, all of these effects are of lower value than you would have with a single secondary effect option. You don't get to list the suite of effects that DP has without mentioning the rather significant "but".Quote:It has KD, KB, -DEF, -RECH, -speed, -DMG, -RES, and the flexibility to adopt more damage.
Except that those damage types aren't particularly large. You get 30% damage choice. You're still going to be stuck with 70% of your damage being lethal the entire time. The fact that you get 30% damage modification is a giveaway for theme. The difference in gameplay isn't particularly spectacular unless you're fighting an enemy group that is deathly allergic to one of your ammunition types and laughs away the other, and that assumes that you're not referring to having to lose out on Standard Ammo's substantially better Piercing Rounds or Incendiary Rounds' rolling DoT that is going to give you a lot to weigh out. The devs have pretty much stated that damage type doesn't mean much because even the "best" damage types still follow the exact same dam/rech/end formula as every other power out there. Psychic Blast didn't get some major nerf just because it deals psy damage.Quote:It has four damage types which you can pick at will. You'll never be fighting fire with fire or having to stick with something that does nothing. You can just switch.
I then challenge you to prove that this vaunted flexibility is as valuable as you seem to claim it to be. Sure, you can change your damage types, but it's only 30% of your total damage. Sure, you can change your secondary effect, but it's going to be less than you'd get elsewhere. Does the ability to choose between a suite of inferior secondary effects really balance out the lower levels of damage, especially since I don't think you could reasonably prove that they actually contribute to survivability or damage in a manner greater than provided by the secondary effects of every other set out there.Quote:So for your own words, DP may be "low" in one area (damage), but "compensate in others" (extreme flexibility not seen in any other set to date).
Keep in mind that it is still, and always will be, a blast set and blast sets are designed to deal damage. When sets start sacrificing their primary functionality for external benefits, the set isn't doing its job (such as was the case with Dark Melee before the buff). Utility is nice, but it's not going to kill things for you. When the utility is overreaching, the set needs to get reoriented and get its damage on. -
Quote:Bad troll is bad. :POriginally Posted by Dispari
Weren't you the one that forced DP, and all sets you compared, into an arbitrary attack chain regardless of the difficulty involved in doing so or even if it was the most efficient DPS chain for that set?
If not, forgive me.
(If you're curious, Disp is pretty much quoting almost word for word a criticism I gave to a really and pretty much useless analysis for DP in the beta) -
Quote:Considering I did comprehensive damage analysis for DP under both conditions and it didn't perform very well under either, I'm going to have to disagree with you. I saw the numbers in both conditions and compared them. The open beta was better, but it still isn't quite balanced with the other sets.Originally Posted by Scythus
I frankly think the detractors of Dual Pistols are trapped in some bizarre alternate dimension where the set didn't get the boost it received in our dimension at the end of closed beta. Seriously people, the damage and recharge times used to be WORSE. Now they're fine.
The only times that DP is actually a respectable contender for DPS is when it is using either Standard Ammo (thanks to PR's -res) or Incendiary Ammo (thanks to the bonus DoT). Chem Ammo and Cryo Ammo are actually substandard for damage specifically because they're not getting either of those benefits. It makes even less sense when you consider that Incendiary is giving up a mitigatory secondary effect in exchange for bonus damage without actually getting much out of the deal. It would be akin to going from Energy Blast to Fire Blast and only getting a paltry 1% increase in DPS.
What makes it worse is that DP isn't actually all that spectacular at AoE damage (mostly thanks to long animations that forcibly extend cycle times) and Hail of Bullets is substantially weaker than it should be (if you want to argue this, I can give you a link), considering existing precedent. The set isn't so completely borked that it's unplayable. The set is simply having to compete for mediocrity. The fact that it's pretty is currently bolstering its playability by a large amount (not to mention the shiny newness) but that doesn't really do much when, by all empirical accounts, the set is underperforming.
Balancing by "feel" and "enjoyability" is all nice and good, but when all a set has going for it is "BABs did an awesome job!", Castle and Synapse probably have some work to do. -
Quote:There isn't really a problem with Soul Transfer except that there isn't any precedent for including self-rez powers in Blaster primary or secondary sets. There also isn't precedent for allowing a character to have more than one non-temp self-res power. Combine the two of those you'll see that, while it may be kewl, it's doubtful that it will ever happen. It's much more likely to be included in a Darkness Mastery ancillary.Originally Posted by theduke24
Soul Transfer, Soul Drain, Siphon Life.
Soul Drain is problematic not because it would be too powerful but because it wouldn't really operate quite as well for Blasters. It would pretty much require a team in order to be useful, which isn't really all that great when you're talking about a power like Build Up which functions as a Blaster's primary form of frontloading (Aim is nice, but BU is way better).
Siphon Life isn't really problematic at all. A 10% enhanceable heal in melee isn't really all that spectacular for a Blaster when you consider their base hp is only 1204.8 and they don't really have anything substantial in the way of mitigation. SOs are what sets are based around so the claim that it might be obscenely overpowered with IO'd out blasters doesn't really hold much water (especially when you look at IO'd */MM blasters with perma-Drain Psyche). -
Holy crap, we have the same birthday?
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Quote:Back in the days when you could go afk in the middle of an mob consisting of an AV and his entire cadre of guards and come back with them still beating on you for 10 minutes still at full health.Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Back in issue 3 (where I came into the game) conventional wisdom was that if something couldn't kill a mature regen in 10 seconds it couldn't EVER kill it.
Yeah, toggle IH needed a hardcore nerfing. Of course, you had to slot the hell out of it just to make it even remotely usable because it cost so friggin' much. -
Quote:I'm not adverse to adding some soft control to powers that don't have it anywhere, though I'd probably want to see some playtesting first to see if it were really needed. What I'm contesting is the logic you're applying in order to legitimize that addition of it.Originally Posted by Leo_G
Geeze, Umbral. You're really getting bent out of shape for such a simple addition as a 'chance of knockdown' to a new made up power >_>
I'm not actually forming Dark Manipulation based off of Ice Manipulation. I never said that nor am I sure where you got that idea. The only precedent of any kind that I was using where Ice Manipulation was concerned was the modifications to Dark Pit to make it follow what we know is "allowable" in manipulation sets. The primary mitigator for not having an inordinate amount of soft control like Ice Manipulation has is the fact that the set would have a substantial amount of pure utility in the form of Dark Consumption and Dark Regeneration. Of course, the set is still going to have a boatload of -tohit running around because virtually every attack is going to toss around a goodly bit of -tohit.Quote:I won't try pressing the argument but just say that, compared to Ice manipulation (the supposed parallel you're forming the set after), your version lacks *any* soft control. No slow, no kb, no terrorize, nothing. If faced with a boss, all you've got is Touch of Fear or bust >_> -
Quote:At the very least it would require the teleport prompt. Best case would be providing its own prompt like the Mystic Fortune that informs you what is about to happen.Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
Kewl idea. It means anyone with this power can grief lowbies and others by throwing them into a large mobs, or even GM's! "Hey Lusca, how about a nice DP blaster for lunch! "
Not saying I'd do it, but you know there would be lots of folks who would abuse this idea.
Honestly, this power would be way too gimmicky to be placed in a primary or even ancillary power set. The best place for it would probably be a booster pack power, a vet reward, or a temp power of some kind.