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Quote:You're on pretty much the right track. The big reason that constant survivability on that scale is broken because you're reducing risk almost to nil while still able to generate reward, even if it is at a slower rate (reduction in reward).As for Granite: Do me a favor. Humor me. Talk to me like I'm stupid.
I challenge you to make a non-IO'd character that can survive as well as a Granite tank. Don't use anecdotal evidence, either. Try comparing the outright survivability numbers: hp, defense, resistance, etc. I can assure you that it won't happen.
Granite Armor is just that strong. It's that strong because god mode powers are all that strong. Every other god mode power has an enforced downtime, generally paired with a substantial negative side effect as well. Granite has a not-particularly substantial negative side effect (it's remarkably easy to get around them compared to the others) along with a complete lack of any real downtime. Unlike almost every other god mode power which has substantial reasons why you wouldn't want to use it as often as you can, Granite Armor doesn't. -
Quote:And I like it that way!You're wasting your time, Sam. If I had a dollar for every time someone tried pointing that out to Umbral I could probably retire.
Honestly, ask yourself, if I acted with as much tact as everyone thinks I should, would I be nearly as entertaining or loveable? My preferred lack of utilizing tact when dealing with most people is part of my indelible charm! -
Any particular reason why you posted this in the Scrapper forums rather than the much more appropriate Triumph forum?
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Quote:The very fact that you're assuming that most of the people on the internet are smart enough to play around with even the most cursory of number systems is pretty friggin' stupid. The very fact that you don't know how long and how much effort is involved in rebalancing a set without simply scrapping it and starting over thanks to the incredible amount of interplay between powers within a set simply shows that you don't have a clue about what's going on.If you think "rebalancing takes as long as creating" the power, then you have no idea what you are talking about. I didn't say it was easy to do nor did I say that it didn't take time, but the time you are thinking it takes is just stupid.
Quote:This would not be like AE... The difference between what this would be and what AE is several orders of magnitude. It seems pretty obvious to me with this comment and the several others you are not actually paying attention to what is said
Quote:and you have a negative out look on a lot of ideas proposed by your own admission thus it makes your opinion less credible and not to mention contradictory.
I don't have a problem with players generating powersets and suggesting them for fun. It happens all the time, and I've done it on more than one occasion. However, do not confuse the fact that I have no problem with powerset suggestions being posted on the forums with any admission that even half of the ideas posted are even remotely well balanced, intelligent, or, much less, feasible.
People are stupid. Half of the people in the world have a double digit IQ. Most people don't even know what balance looks like and even fewer have any idea about what the mechanics of the game are even when you explain them slowly and use pictures.
It's a massive waste of resources to create tools that players already have access to. If you want to make an attack set, there are already models and formulas to tell you how long attacks should recharge and how much endurance they should cost for how much damage they deal and how much area they cover. If you want to make a defense set, there are survivability spreadsheets that will tell you how strong the set is compared to all of the other sets in the game. If you want to make a control set, the model for those sets, along with the formulas that they follow, are all rather obvious if you actually look.
Your suggestion is that the devs should make tools for everyone that the people that actually generate intelligent, well made sets already have. These tools aren't being hoarded either. Everything that players use to determine the balance of specific powers and powersets is out there publicly. It's not even hard to find them (half of them you can find by just doing a cursory search of Arcanaville's posts). I can assure you, anything that the devs would put out with this suggestion, would be functionally identical to one of several other tools and formulas that already exist. Hell, half of what is involved in generating new sets is actually based around the precedent set by other similar powers rather than formulaic determination. -
I already know that, if any changes are going to be made to Stone Armor, they're not going to be made until after Going Rogue comes out. I still am interested in this discussion (many people probably interpret my snappishness as irritation when, most often, it's more my intense interest and enjoyment of intense debate and balance discussions) which is why I'm still taking part in it. I'm not dead set on these specific changes being the ones that make it, and, though I strongly feel that they're the best changes recommended to date, I'm not unwilling to modify them to account for new ideas and suggestions (albeit, only ones that actually have some basis in a balanced implementation rather than hard-headed refusal to admit what is patently obvious).
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Quote:A lot of the browbeatings I've been handing out have mainly been due to having to explain what I (and most other people that are actually likely to have opinions that bear weight with the devs) find to be obvious. Things like Granite Armor needing to functionally remove your ability to do anything if it's going to be available all the time or that the set isn't resistance based and that the only reason people view it as such is because of Granite Armor. I don't mean to browbeat anyone that agrees with me, I just have a problem with someone acting as if someone else has brought something new to the discussion that has been present from the very beginning.Pardon the pun, but when you're snapping at people who agree with you, it makes you seem as if you have a chip on your shoulder. It's not exactly conducive to discussion, and I assume that the point of this thread was to create a discussion rather than to hand out browbeatings to all and sundry until no one wanted to talk about the topic with you anymore.
Quote:If there is something inherently flawed about this concept per se, then it is a flaw shared with every other mitigation toggle: they cost you endurance, which you could be using to increase your damage output, and instead divert that endurance to keeping you alive. The difference is in the degree.
Keep in mind that, just as much as endurance is required for damage output, there is no mechanism in the entire game that can allow you to make an attack consume more endurance in order to deal more damage. The optimal contribution of a power is set in stone and the only thing that can be improved upon is the efficiency with which that contribution is accessed. If it were, endurance recovery beyond the point of infinite sustainability would actually be useful, but, as it stands, it does virtually nothing because there is no way to increase consumption to meet your capabilities beyond a certain point.
Quote:So I would ask you: if you were at all interested in keeping Granite Armor a defensive mode switch that can be left on for any amount of time, what degree of defensive bonus and offensive penalty would be appropriate?
The only way I could possibly imagine allowing Granite Armor to remain as an at-will defensive mode (without doing one or all of the things previously mentioned) would be to do something that the engine cannot handle without a helluva lot of largely redundant tweaking to the powers database: have Granite Armor apply a decrease to base damage rather than the +dam attribute to ensure that, no matter what, you can't bypass the reduction in damage that Granite Armor provides (30% -dam does not equate to a 30% reduction in total damage dealt; with virtually any defender around, it means virtually nothing). Considering how much work would be involved in doing that, I can assure you it's just not going to happen.
Quote:Incidentally, if your proposed Granite toggle has a forced detoggle after 120 seconds and an unenhanceable recharge time of 300 seconds, this means it would have a worse uptime ratio than SoW or OWTS, for exactly the same reason that you chided BrandX for forgetting. Toggles start recharging when they turn off; clicks start recharging when they're fired. Thus the recharge on Granite would need to be 180 seconds to get the 2:3 cycle of SoW, or 240 seconds to get the 2:4 cycle of OWTS - pick whichever you feel is most appropriate. Unless, of course, you meant that your version of Granite should have a 2:5 uptime ratio. -
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I'm not entirely sure where I said this... anywhere.
Quote:Toggle
Recharge: 180 seconds
End Cost: .26 - .65 a second (this puts it between Granite as it is now and Phase Shift)
Duration: 90 seconds.
This I think would allow people to keep it perma as it is now (if built with enough recharge), while keeping it closer to the same.
Toggles do no begin recharging until they turn off. No matter what, you're never going to have a toggle that shuts off automatically be permanent unless the recharge of the power is non-existent. At best (400% +rech), you'd get 71% uptime with those numbers. Unless you want to turn Granite Armor into a click power (which I don't think anyone supports), your solution wouldn't work. -
Quote:AT mods are why the melee ATs get hosed. I'm still not sure why Defenders and Controllers get Tanker grade self buff mods when they're intended to be squishy. Even if they don't get any native personal buffs (all of their buff powers use the ranged buff mods rather than the melee buff mods), Controllers and Defenders still get high melee buff mods. Tankers and Scrappers, on the other hand, because they're intended to be bad at ranged combat and support even though they don't get many ranged attacks (and those attacks use the melee damage mods anyway) or ranged buff/debuff powers, get saddled with crappy mods for all of those.Epic powers seem to suffer from this over-balance, especially when they cross ATs. At the very least, Melt Armour needs to account for the lower AT mods on debuffs on the ATs who get the Epic pools it's in. I don't specifically mind that it's AoE - it's a design choice, but it definitely needs to be stronger in order to matter.
The APPs have always sucked for the melee ATs specifically because melee ATs get crappy mods for the things they don't get natively and support ATs get high mods for everything except damage, even if they are supposed to be bad at them and don't get them natively. -
Quote:First off, I am not altering the focus of the set in the least. Look at the actual powers in the set. Not just Granite Armor, but the entire set. There are 3 powers that grant resistance and 4 powers that grant defense. The set is not a resistance set. The only "resistance bias" the set has is when you're operating entirely under the assumption that Granite is the only thing that exists. Hell, if you actually look at my changes, I'm increase resistance more than I'm increasing defense. Please, know what you're talking about. You continually demonstrate how little you know about anything we're talking about the more we continue on this discussion. If it weren't against the forum guidelines to do anything more than facepalm at your obvious inability to perceive what is in front of you, I'd say more about this.Correct. However the increase in defense does not make up for the loss of resistance because of this difference. Right now my Tanker will not die from getting hit by a defense debuff because I am either in Granite Armor or I can turn Granite Armor on if I need to; however, if Stone Armor were turned into a predominantly Defense oriented set then defense debuffs, Arch Villain spikes, things that I did not have to worry about before, are now a big problem. I have the advantages of both high defense and resistance now.
Is your stand that, this shift is just an outcome of the nerf?
My problem is not with your calculations my problem is with your exchange of resistance for defense. Sure you can take some power away from Granite Armor and transfer it to other powers, but we're left with too little resistance.
Quote:Why (Specific to IOs)? This game is balanced around SOs, and there are sets that can become, arguably, far more overpowered than a Stone tank. With SOs you cannot overcome Stone Armor's weaknesses solo.
Quote:While I realize Castle is not the best person to get information about game from, the part of his message I was referring to was the lack of caring about the levels of survivability Shield Defense can get.
Quote:If he doesn't care that Shields can get extraordinary levels of protection (I assuming from IOs), why would he care about Stone Armor doing the same thing?
Quote:I have designed other tanker builds that are nearly unkillable, just like Stone Armor, and they are not staring down the barrel of a nerf. In the case of Willpower the powers work together rather than outdoing each other like Stone Armor.
Quote:With SOs Willpower will have more damage and Stone Armor will have more survivability. It seems balanced to me. Yes changes on a power by power basis, like transferring defense from Granite Armor to the lesser armors, but overall the sets have strengths and weaknesses that set them apart from each other.
I think I just noticed something else... You're assuming I'm transferring stuff out of Granite Armor and into the other armors (not that I have any idea where you're getting this since the decrease to Granite Armor's numbers isn't even close to the improvements I gave to the other armors). You're wrong. I improved the other armors while ignoring Granite Armor and then chose new numbers for Granite knowing that the new numbers would be used as a baseline.
Quote:I still don't understand, why can't a tier nine be perma?!
Let's say we changed Granite Armor to:
-Mutually exclusive to all other toggles and powers
-Reduces defense by 10,000%
-Reduces resistance by 10,000%
-Reduces Hit Points to 1
-Reduces regeneration to 0%
Would it still be considered overpowered just because it is still a perma tier nine?
Quote:Why is there no middle ground that we can find where Granite Armors bonuses are balanced around being perma?
Quote:Ex. Why do Fire Controllers get three pets? They're pets! They should only get one!
There are two responses to this.- Three weaker pets are balanced against one stronger pet in other sets.
- Control sets are all different. Similarity would make things boring
Quote:Semantics, they reduced them to zero.
Quote:I think you are vastly underestimating what it takes to bypass the downsides of Granite Armor (at least +30% run speed, +65% recharge, +30%, damage, and nothing can get past the -jump).
I understand exactly how hard it is. I don't think you realize quite how easy it is to get around. There's a reason Stone Tanks are so popular, and it's not just because people like all looking the same.
Quote:I was merely pointing out that balance can be found with toggle powers that provide high levels of defense. In the case of PFF for squishies, yes, it did mean the removal of offensive capabilities; however, tankers, brutes, stalkers, and scrappers were meant to have damage mitigation in the form of toggles. -
Quote:As described in the forum rules and guidelines, necroposting has nothing to do with intent:Okay, seriously guys? Derepping me for bumping this thread? Necroposting is bumping an ancient thread just for laughs and serves no purpose. This isn't necroposting because I didn't do it for laughs, I did it because I wanted to get this idea out there again, and hey, here's a thread I already made on the subject that says everything I would've said in a new thread.
Quote:Thread necromancy - Necro-posting is responding to an old discussion thread and is a form of thread ‘bumping’. If you wish to discuss a considerably older topic, create a new post and link to the older discussion. -
Quote:From Positron here.Firstly, not as sticky as you might think. We already sign over a form of consent to use our intellectual property just from signing in and creating characters. Reimbursement would never need to be involved, but it would be another plus wouldn't it? Could be a way to scout new talent...after all they've already done that with MA.
I know you may get alot of this but I've written down a few ideas for content for later issues would you guys mind taking a look at?
Posi- Paragon, like most studios, does not accept unsolicited work. This is due to the legal nature of the fact that we might be working on the exact same idea.
Quote:As long as they are close enough I don't see how this could take up more man hours... yeah more powers means more time spent balancing them across the board when they all need to be, but that happens anyways they would just be another extra number to juggle and I don't see that as a problem... It's more a willingness issue than anything imo...
Quote:Thirdly, this is 2 things... the talent out there is not poor.
Quote:And the second part... there are people that are paid to do data entry... you know how incredibly painful and mind numbing data entry is? I'd rather take a job as someone who has to sift through animations and numbers possibly seeing something cool and adding it to something i love than I would like to do any sort of data entry (which is btw why data entry is paid well >.>)
Quote:Not true. Different dev teams use different tools for different purposes. Depending on the various processes used I know quite a few people that would be willing and able to do this... -
The people that they would trust to do work like this are both already doing it and don't need the developers to create new tools to tell us how to do it.
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Quote:Which is why they're roughly equivalent mitigation mechanisms. Resistance is allergic to debuffs because you can't avoid them. Defense is allergic to the RNG (though no one ever seems to bring up the fact that you're just as likely to have the RNG provide you with more mitigation than you're supposed to).True, however Resistance has its secondary effects. Letting you live through two consecutive hits the Random Number Generator decided you needed and not being susceptible to cascade failure due to lack of defense debuff resistance is something defense cannot offer.
Quote:In order to let people keep the set bonuses they are slotting in Granite Armor, I could see keeping a small amount of enhance-able defense; however, the other shields are now not mutually exclusive. Has too much really been changed if the only thing you need to do to get the levels of Defense that you had in Granite Amor back is turn on your other shields?
Quote:I'm not asking for something like:
Granite Armor gives a -100% recharge debuff
Rooted gives a +100% recharge buff
What I mean is easy to overcome using IOs. Nerf something about the power that can be made up if a person is willing to put the influence into it. Many power sets become overpowered when billions of influence is shunted into them, why should Stone Armor be any different.
Quote:(Especially considering this. Castle: I'm not too concerned about the protection levels shields can generate; it'll be needed.
Quote:Granite Armor currently is overpowered. I personally don't think it is, however Castle doesn't agree. Therefore we need to nerf it enough that it is no longer overpowered.
Why does it have to lose being a toggle (effectively, even if it is still mechanically a toggle)? Why can't we debuff other effects like damage, Defense, etc...
Perma Elude? Yes that would be overpowered because the only downside to Elude is the crash, which doesn't amount to much other than being endurance-less for a few seconds while maintaining capped defense. Perma Granite Armor has -damage, -speed, -recharge, -jump, etc. Granite Armor pays for it's the ability to be perma.
Quote:Not all tier nine's have to be the same. (Note: I am not saying that is what you want, however I don't see why Granite Armor can't be perma if it has enough downsides to balance it.)
Quote:Is Personal Force Field overpowered? No its not, however it lets its user (A squishy no less!) maintain perma Elude levels of defense. Why is that ok? Because the downsides of PFF make up for the fact that it is perma. PFF is balanced around the fact that you can only affect yourself while in it. At one point you could have PFF on and attack. That was obviously deemed overpowered, so instead of reducing the defense you got from PFF, they reduced the offensive capabilities of the power.
Is Granite Armor's survivability bonus balanced by the fact that it reduces offensive capabilities? No? Then why not reduce the offensive capabilities more, rather than reduce the survivability bonuses? -
I'm not challenging what you're saying based on an external trait that isn't directly linked to your argument. I'm challenging you based on a trait that is integrally linked to your argument. Please, learn what you're talking about first. Your wikipedia skills are obviously failing, though I laud your ability to herd lolcats.
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Quote:Except that you didn't. Nice try. You might want to actually try doing something concerning balance rather than just spouting drivel that seems intelligent to people that don't know what they're talking about.Lower Granite Armor's numbers so that, if using the rest of the power set at the same time, it equals out to "Granite Armor" numbers. Remove the "No other armors" portion. Remove the -speed and the -damage. Add +jump. Increase the end cost in order to make it prohibitively expensive to run all the armor toggles AND Granite armor at the same time for any length of time without some serious end boosting.
There ya go. Just fixed most of the perceived problems with it while also keeping it mostly balanced.
You're assuming a lot about endurance cost balances to survivability. You're also assuming a lot about how well that performs. Just look at Dark Armor for a model of a powerset that uses endurance as the primary limiter on performance. It generates obscene levels of performance, both sustainable and short term, but the very fact that it's endurance limited makes it largely unpopular. Even more, you're assuming that you could make the endurance costs of the set balanced while allowing the set to remain toggle intensive. Changing endurance to be the primary limiter would do one of two things: the set would be unplayable at low levels and when solo or the set would be incredibly broken (because you can mitigate the costs even easier than you can mitigate the movement penalties). One of the primary concerns that needs to be addressed with the set is playability. You're not addressing any of the parts of that in any substantive way. -
Quote:
Getting rid of the Resistance bonus is far too large of a survivability nerf, which defense does not make up for (I realize in your model statistically it does, however in reality it does not).
However, a statement like
Quote:lower things that can easily be make up for
Quote:Automatic detoggling is something I am against for many reasons. Quote:- I am one of the few that love the look of Granite Armor. I do not want to be constantly thrown in and out of it.
- Detoggling powers after a set amount of time really annoys me. While still aggravating, things like Hibernate and Phase Shift are on thirty second timers making it a bit easier to keep track of. Something on a 120 second timer is a lot harder to keep track of and this alone would kill the set for me. If it is going to detoggle I need something to show a countdown.
The issue of having Granite Armor turn off after a specific period of time is something I think is rather necessary to prevent the set from being the current overpowered monstrosity that it currently is. I thought of a couple other workarounds, but I suggested the one that I think is the most applicable and hardest to work around. The only real solutions, while allowing the power to remain a toggle, are likely those that will bother people in the same way that the Phase Shift changes bothered people. The other main one that I considered (though not the one I prefer because it is substantially easier to work around than a hard-coded maximum uptime) was having the endurance cost of the power slowly ramp up the longer it is on. The recharge time would still need to remain high to prevent simply toggling it on and off in order to reset the endurance cost, but it would allow you to keep it on indefinitely... if you can pay the continually rising cost.
Quote:I would not be able to keep peak performance at all times. One of the many reasons I chose Stone Armor was due to the fact that I did not have to worry about Granite Armor dropping ergo dropping my survivability. If I wanted peak instantaneous performance I would have chosen Invulnerability, however I wanted a high peak sustainable performance and a cool looking suit of armor. -
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Scrappers.
Honestly, I think they're the most well balanced AT in the game. Tankers don't deal enough damage and can't solo well enough, Defenders, Corrs, and Controllers are either too weak or overpowered depending on how you leverage the support mechanisms, Blasters and Dominators are a lacking in survivability mechanisms that don't rely on binary conditions (they're either attacking you at full strength, dead, or mezzed into lol), and Brutes are simply overpowered thanks to some retarded decisions by the Cryptic devs (Scrapper damage and above-Scrapper survivability while solo, Tanker level survivability and above-Scrapper damage when on teams; /facepalm). -
Quote:This was largely what I was thinking of with giving Rooted the Grounded treatment. When I think of Rooted and the +regen benefit it provides, I think of drawing strength from the earth via a physical connection, an action I don't really see preventing you from walking or even running around as long as you actually remain in contact with the ground. If you were getting some kind of mitigation benefit (like some substantial +res) conferred by setting yourself into the bedrock, I could see a reduction in movement speed (bedrock isn't really known for being particularly mobile). The +regen benefit just doesn't really grok with a decrease in mobility as I see it.Basically, when it comes to Rooted, I'd look to Jim Temblor in his Granite Armour. He runs pretty fast, he can jump about regular height and he doesn't seem to be slowed down too much, which is what I'd like to see with Rooted. Sure, don't let me super-speed or fly around while being supposedly Rooted, but don't take it literally and rooting me to the ground all but completely. Honestly, just kill the use of Jumping, Flight, Speed and Teleportation powers with Rooted and/or Granite on and just dump the speed debuffs. Add in -fly if you have to, to prevent Group Fly from uprooting you. And while we're at it, can we please be allowed to activate Rooted in the air? Have it drop us out of the sky, I don't care. Be a good way to ground myself in order for my other ground-only powers to work, which I can't do if I've already been floated by Group Fly.
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Quote:1. I'm not reducing peak mitigation. The changes actually generate greater levels of survivability with Granite Armor active than they do without.Now I would never go so far as to call a change that reduces Stone's peak mitigation and increases its mobility and offensive output while at peak mitigation a "nerf". For 95% of the game, that's going to be a net improvement. But, frankly, I didn't roll a Stone Armor tank to be good at the 95% of the game that the other sets are better at. I rolled it for the 5% of the game where mitigation at any cost is king. If that's not an exchange the devs want me to be able to make, then so be it, but I'd miss that option if it were taken away.
2. The only "negative" change is the removal of the ability to simply maintain peak survivability at all times if you're simply willing to deal with a reduction in damage output and recharge. Stone Armor builds aren't built to use Granite Armor only some of the time. Virtually every Stone Armor build out there comes under one of two categories: builds that always use Granite Armor and builds that never use Granite Armor. The only "option" is one of build rather than one of situation. -
Quote:Actually, Castle is on record with saying that he would change the set to remove the crippling reliance on Granite Armor and balance out the discrepancy in effectiveness between pre-32 and post-43 gameplay if he could and had the time. Castle doesn't like Stone Armor in its current incarnation. One of the biggest reasons that he hasn't yet is because of all of the players that love having a perma-Granite and the incredible backlash that any change that prevented it from being possible would generate.Because of Granite's overwhelming advantage, Castle is on record as saying that Stone isn't really up for a revamp or a rebalance... at least not anytime soon.
Quote:Okay, in all fairness, it is IO slotted, not SO slotted. That being said, I don't have any major buffs to typical Defenses, having focused on a recharge and movement based build... but... I survive just fine in pretty much every average game situation. I've even tanked MoSTF's without having to duck into Granite (which, also in all fairness, tends to creep the living DAYLIGHTS out of the rest of the team).
Quote:Maybe I'm just that good. Maybe it's because I know HOW to tank instead of relying on what a spread sheet says. Maybe it's because i know WHICH powers to use, and WHEN to use them.
Quote:Basically, I'm not sold on the idea that the difficulties and issues with Stone Armor that are obvious is entirely such a bad thing. I also really, really, really dislike the attempts to automagically balance each every power set in the game to be exactly like one another.
I wish I could say I was sorry, but when I play my stone tank, I want to have a completely different experience from playing on my Dark, Fire, Invuln, Ice, Willpower, or Shield tanks.
Stone Armor fits that experience change... right now. The proposes made in this thread? Change it. It's no longer unique or different.
For that, and that alone. /unsigned
You're suffering from the delusion that correcting problems in the design of the set is going to make it just like every other set out there. I am not changing anything to make the set more like any other powerset out there except for removing the ability for players to constantly maintain tier-9 survivability. Perma-MoG and Perma-Unstoppable had their own issues of balance to deal with (crashes at the end), but the devs fixed those exclusive of the fact that those capabilities had commensurate weaknesses. Granite Armor has gotten away with being so overpowered this long because the rest of the set wouldn't be playable without fixes. What I propose would fix the rest of the set, maintain the playstyle for those powers, and remove the ability to have Granite Armor on at all times as should have been done long ago. -
Quote:So you chose Stone Armor specifically because of Granite Armor being completely horribly borked with rather simple workarounds for the "weaknesses" of it rather than the fact that it's got 4 other armor toggles that actually exist? Stone Armor has always been the mix of defense, resistance, and regeneration that I'm proposing (and it's substantially more focused on mitigation than */WP is and doesn't rely on saturating an aura to generate respectable damage recovery). Hell, the only difference in playstyle I'm proposing is forcing players to use the tier 9 only part of the time like every other set does rather than keeping it going all the time. Every set used to be able to do it back when the game first came out but those powers go quashed pretty quickly. The fact that the set kept a perma-tier 9 this long still boggles my mind.I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, everything you said about Stone Armor's strengths and drawbacks is true. On the other hand, I like that Stone Armor offers the unlimited opportunity to sacrifice a great deal of offense and maneuverability and gain a great deal of survivability. This doesn't appeal to everyone, but I don't think that it should be a design principle that all sets must appeal to everyone. What you're proposing seems to turn Stone into a WPesque mix of defense, resistance, and regeneration, which certainly performs well enough but is not what I bargained for when I chose the set. I picked Stone for its edge in extreme situations, not because I wanted a general high performer.
Quote:Incidentally, reducing the resistance buff in Granite from 50% to 17.5%, even if stackable with the other armors and even including the change to Stone Skin, would not be letting Granite retain "roughly the same level of survivability". That's a rather significant cut, and it's particularly significant in the situations where Granite shines now: when you're taking a lot of damage that cannot be mitigated through defense. -
Quote:Unless you're building for PvP, I would drop Eagles Claw before I dropped CAK. They've got virtually identical DPAs though CAK has the definite advantage of not taking 3 seconds to animate, which is going to hurt both your DPS (because that's time you're not able to use Storm Kick) and your survivability (because you can't use clickies while you're stuck animating that horribly long power).Hmmmm, interesting. I'll post up my build, though I know it's not min/maxxed much, and I still need to drop Crippling Axe Kick (which I grabbed at 49 to see if I liked it a long time ago, and haven't had the gumption to respec into something else since).
Quote:Still, it works pretty well for my guy... he's soloed through all the EBs in the game (never had the desire to solo AVs, either) and is quite survivable at 50 and exemped down. I have fun with him, anyway.
Quote:Basically, I guess I'm saying perma-DP isn't needed to do well. So a little variety to the mix. Feel free to critique or discuss if you want, too.
Dull Pain is one of the strongest tools that */Regen gets. It,is one of the big reasons why the set does so well (and can manage without any real native mitigation). Not attempting to use Dull Pain to the fullest is like refusing to slot Invincibility or RttC: it's not required, but it's going to be really cost:benefit inefficient.