Umbral

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Are the to-hit check and damage really worth it?

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Personally, I've always felt that the fact that it does damage is balanced by the fact that it has to hit. I personally feel that Castle should have reduced the recharge time when he did the rest of the DM fixes, but, eh, I'm happy with where it is now. That doesn't mean I couldn't be happier though.

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playing a dual blade scrapper . I want to solo my whole life away. I was thinking about regen since it has so little down time but can you really solo with it at later lvls? would SR be better i see people talking about it all the time.

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What's your budget? If you've got the money to spend on set IOs, */SR can be a true beast (though it's going to hurt getting to your 30s and the soft cap). If you don't, */wp and */regen both perform admirably. */Regen is going to have a better start though will hurt your DPS a bit simply because of redraw and clickie activation. */WP is going to start a bit slowed but is pretty dangerous. Neither are going to be top performers in the end game, but they'll both do the job adequately.

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Really should address him as Evil Gecko or EG. The name is not a coincdence

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Ahh, the good old days. WHat ever happened to Geko anyway?

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http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Geko

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Recharge is the easiest one to go for, soft-capping is a little tougher but doable from what I have read.

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From what I could tell, the only way to softcap */regen was with either Kat/* or BS/* because of Parry/DA. I'm pretty sure that it's impossible without it.

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And I am still confused and curious at how regen is at level 50 number wise? With IOs and the such, do they heal faster? Are they able to take alot more damage like Willpower? The reason I am asking is I have a level 50 I haven't played since issue 11 and would like to if I IO them out, will I see a difference?


Please note: I did make notes at the suggestions from the guide.

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If you're going to IO out a */regen, what you get is going to be heavily dependent on what set bonuses you're aiming for. While I haven't read EvilGeko's guide, I do know that, if you aim for loads of +recharge, it will play pretty much exactly the same as a non-IO'd */regen, except with a faster succession of click powers. If you go for +def, it'll play pretty close to basic */regen as well with the exception that you're just clicking less often (or clicking just as often but fighting harder enemies). If you go for both, you'll be able to click in faster succession while having less need to click.

Numbers-wise, it's heavily dependent on player skill. If you're a player that can predict incoming damage and knows which clicks to use when, you'll get a lot of mileage out of IO'ing out your */regen. If you're not (or would just prefer to have a "set-it-and-forget-it" style character), you're not going to like what it turns into.

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Pound for pound, bone is stronger than concrete. It has a large amount of compressive strength along it's major axis, which is why most breaks that you see occur when something hits it hard from the side at one of the thinnest areas.

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Isn't some of the significant strength of bone also from structure not just from density? It doesn't help that bone density can vary pretty heavily depending on age, occupation, and other personal variables.

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Would having the debuff resistance in Dull Pain be permanent or would it have to be activated?

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If it were part of Dull Pain, it would need to be activated.

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I'm curious where you're getting a diagnosis of schizophrenia from. While I will give you that the Trolls show heavy evidence of the positive symptoms of schizophrenia (though they tend to lack hallucinations and tend to tend more towards delusions), they don't really demonstrate all of the negative symptoms: blunted affect, anhedonia, asociality, and avolition. Trolls actually show heightened affect even when in non-stressful and non-negative situations, demonstrate a great joy in base pleasures (breaking stuff), actively seek out others of their kinds, and are motivated enough to actually initialized gang wars.

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Admitting that I don't know half the words you used and 1 AM isn't a good time to look them up, I will freely admit I made it up. Call them stark-raving mad, instead. That's easier to find symptoms for.

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Lol. I was a psych major. Go me.

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I'd actually be curious to figure out what long term exposure to Superadine does, aside from the Troll mutation. Would it actually impede functionality as the body comes to depend on the additional benefits of the Superadine to perform normal operations (re: stop building muscles because the 'dyne makes weak muscles strong enough)? Would it simply cause diminishing effects as the body built up a tolerance to the granted superpowers? Would it actually cause an higher levels of the superpowers because your body has developed a tolerance (and is also supernaturally resilience thanks to the 'dyne) and can now handle larger quantities of the drug? Any of those could lead to some very interesting story lines.

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Well, I'm no expert on the matter, but I do know that not every muscle in the body benefits from being bigger and denser. The heart, for instance, actually degrades as it enlarges. I would imagine Trolls would be at a much elevated risk of heart disease thanks to that.

Also, as most bodybuilders will probably stand to evidence, big, thick muscles aren't actually always good, and if a Troll were to stop taking Superadine, I'm sure he'd turn into a flabby mess in no time flat. The other side is normal wear and tear on the body. Mutated though their bodies may be, they're still being put through stresses that the human body was just not designed for. Even with increased regeneration and so forth, I'd imagine they'd all be suffering joint pains and bone wear. Sure, we could say that they're super soldiers, but even regular humans need to be careful what they do with their bodies. Trolls never struck me as being careful or considerate. Given that they don't seem to feel much pain and regenerate so fast, they're likely even less careful.

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I think the big issue here is whether Superadine provides additional strength by generating more muscle mass or by simply making the muscle mass significantly strong than it should be. The comparisons to anabolic steroids (and heart damage) would only really be comparable if Superadine simply improved muscular growth and development. If it's done through super power handwaving, then it's highly doubtful.

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Shields only has two places of defense debuff resistance, grant cover and active defense.

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That's wrong. Battle Agility has 13.84% def debuff resistance, the same as Grant Cover.

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The build currently has 12.2% melee defense which while not "huge" does help to some degree.

My biggest problem with attempting to turn my DM/Regen scrapper into a "Poor man's Super Reflexes" is that frankly I don't want to play a set where my character's survival is based upon +Def and almost nothing else.

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Your primary survivability is still based around hefty levels of regeneration. The problem with trying to go with regen and not much else is that it's no longer possible to get to the levels of regeneration that allowed a player to actually run without damage mitigation. The important thing to keep in mind is that you've only got an extra 24 hp/sec when you could have gotten an extra 16% defense to all 3 positions. That 24 hp/sec might seem like a lot, but you've got to consider that it's ignoring IH, Recon, and the heal from Dull Pain in it. That's sheer survivability from an hp/sec standpoint. The problem is that 70 hp/sec isn't really all that much.

The best bet when trying to get additional survivability for a */regen is to just go for +recharge and then +def. There just isn't enough +Regen to actually make a significant difference.

Something to consider is that I've got a DM/Regen and still play him a lot. I've logged more hours on him than I care to count and have done every piece of dev made content available (seriously, I've got the souvenirs to prove it) with him. He's done it all and, unless I'm doing something completely out of the realm of normalcy (soloing 8 man unyielding spawns of Rularuu), I don't have to bother using my click powers. Even then, I only have to use them sparingly.

The big thing to remember is that */regen as it is now will never be the way it used to be. It's active. You're not going to get a really great */regen build that doesn't capitalize on that nature because it's running counter to the set. You just can't get enough +regen from IOs to actually make passive regeneration (rather than click powers) your primary method of survival (keep in mind, if they ever did allow that, it would mean that even Blasters would be able to get above or near where we are now).

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I wish the one about Karma: Knockback Protection in Dispersion Bubble were true. I would never have remade my Bots/Bubbles Mastermind as Bots/Traps. Do putting any of those global effects into PBAoE buffs make them affect everyone in the buff area?

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I don't think so. Global IO's, buff procs, and heal procs affect the caster (there might be some bugged exceptions here); damage procs and debuff procs affect foes.

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Well, Performance Shifter Chance for Endurance in Speed Boost will give the target of the power the benefits of the proc should it fire rather than the user. So you could slot it in Recovery Aura to give everyone a minor chance for a minor endurance refill each time you used it. I can't think of any others that might work that way, but they would all be proc effects rather than the constant bonuses. So, close, but not quite.

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I always thought SB was bugged in that regard... it's hard to tell what's bugged and what's WAI anymore.

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Some procs target the originator of the power and other procs target the target of the power. Personally, I'd love to have them actually state in the proc's description whether it specifically targets you or it simply targets the target of the power.

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Actually, because the Troll mutation has been canonically stated as being due to an overdose, I'm reasonably sure that the Family is capable of having their higher ups using the drugs simply by being stingy. It also begs the question of what the Family cuts the impure 'dyne with. Is it a traditional mind-altering street drug, which could possibly explain the affects of the Troll mutation on cognition and psyche, or is it something even cheaper (like milk powder, baking powder, etc. with cocaine).


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While the cutting agent seems like a really good avenue to explore, something esle occurred to me. Consigliere not only use Superadine, but it seems to have granted them powers typically associated with strong minds, usually Gravity Control (can't recall any others). Combined with the interdimensional perception in the 1%, you can almost interpret that to mean Superadine actually grants intelligence. The so called 'stupidity of trolls' could be an overdose of brain power; literally frying the brain.

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That's actually a very interesting consideration, though it would make me wonder as to why the less than boss-tier Family members don't seem to exhibit intelligence greater than normal. If it did increase intelligence and the Troll's stupidity is simply an issue of being too intelligent to actually reason (which would explain why they're capable of impressive acts of demolition even though they lack any training; they do everything based off of highly analytical instincts), then anyone else who took Superadine would show signs of heightened intelligence before they actually "went Troll". Outcasts, Skulls, Hellions, et al. haven't really been shown as more intelligent than normal and they're all 'dyne hounds.

I actually think that it would be better to have them as a merit reward option than as a reward for having/getting the badge. Other specific pets could be done as recipes. Make it a temp power with unlimited uses like the Veteran Reward. Get the random recipe drop and craft that bad boy. I'd love to be able to get optional non-combat pets though.

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Let me start by saying welcome back to game, I hope you enjoy your stay with us!

That said the first thing I noticed when opening your build is that Hasten is not perma, which translates to Dull Pain not being perma. While Hasten is up the +Recharge it provides brings it's recharge to 128s with an up time of 120s; however, since there is an eight second gap in those numbers the +Recharge will wear off before Hasten will trigger again. that leaves you with these numbers for Hasten and Dull Pain:

Hasten - Uptime: 120s, Downtime: 159.8s
Dull Pain - Uptime: 120s, Downtime: 128.6s

Somehow you need to find a way to snag another 8 seconds worth of recharge to keep Hasten, and Dull Pain perma.

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Someone needs to get the Umbral Primer on Partial Recharge.

When a power such as Hasten goes down in the middle of a power recharging, it does not act as you though. The power will actually maintain its current percent of recharge time gone through and then go through the remaining portion of the leftover percentage at the higher recharge rate. The same applies with going from a lower recharge state to a higher recharge state.

The math for Hasten is, in reality, 120 seconds of uptime and (((120-128)/128*159.8)+120) = 129.9875 seconds for recharge. Hasten would be up for 120 seconds every 131 seconds (because of the activation time). That's 91% uptime and an average contribution of 64.12% +recharge. With Dull Pain packing 180% +recharge from enhancements and set bonuses, this means that it's got 244.12% +recharge to work with. A base recharge of 360 and a duration of 120 seconds means that it requires ((360/120)-1) = 200% recharge to make it permanent, it's easily permanent. In fact, it's got 15.5 seconds of overlap.

Now, as to the OP, if you're looking for a good "set-it-and-forget-it" style */regen build, you're looking in all the wrong places. Rather than trying to tack on an extra 24 hp/sec, you'd be better served making your regeneration start acting on smaller amounts of incoming damage. Damage mitigation multiplies the effectiveness of damage recovery. Your best bet to get damage mitigation to more meaningful levels is +def IO set bonuses.

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They fixed the Force Feedback proc a while ago so that it only checks once per power. That's why it used to be worth a lot and can now be gotten for reasonably cheap.

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Actually, that's not correct, last I read up on it. It is better to slot it in an AoE than a single target attack, exactly because it does check once per target.

That said, it cannot self stack, so it only gives you its normal, one-target benefit even if it triggers on multiple targets. However, multiple targets in an AoE gives a better chance of it triggering due to multiple activation checks.

It also suppresses even in click powers. There is ongoing debate about how exactly this suppression functions, but the evidence seems to lean towards it being benefit suppression instead of activation suppression. This means it is possible for it to activate while suppressed, the suppression to end, and then for you to get a reduced duration benefit with a delay after the intitial activation.

The reason it used to be worth a lot was that it had a 100% chance of activation. The only thing that kept it even remotely grounded in sanity was its suppression.

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Yeah, that sounds right now that I think about it. I never slotted it, considering I never had a character that found much use for it, but I do recall that the change the devs implemented decreased chance and increased the effect while removing stackability. I still don't believe that Soul Drain actually checks on each target though because, unless the devs also changed the stackability whenever they made the Gauss proc unique, it's still supposed to be stackable (if you can break all of the other rules).

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QR

If I Remember correctly awhile back Arcanaville had posted some research on how the female models were made inferior to the male ones because of discrepancies in combat stance and attack animations.

I suspect this is related to that and would explain why it's no longer used in game.

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Actually, Arcanaville did that analysis after release when the discussed changes had already been eliminated. What Arcanaville brought up was minute differences in animation times due to different skeletal compositions, minute being on the order of a single clock interval. As she found it, the basic male skeleton was the only one that had truly accurate animation times listed. The huge and female models, thanks to differences in structure, size and speed, actually attacked very slightly slower even though they used the same animations.

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It doesn't work per target but per click. While Foot Stomp, Lightning Rod, Shield Charge and other great skills can run a Force Feedback check on each target hit, Gaussians does not work this way with Soul Drain.

(Or, at least it didn't when I tested it upon the release of toHit buff sets.)

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They fixed the Force Feedback proc a while ago so that it only checks once per power. That's why it used to be worth a lot and can now be gotten for reasonably cheap.

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Debuff resistance to -regen effects I can see being added. Probably in Resilience and Dull Pain.

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If it were following with */WP's design logic (and Castle is fond of continuing design logic across power sets), it would go in Fast Healing though I'd make it enhanceable along with the +regen just to make FH a more enhanceable power. 26% base up to 50% enhanced wouldn't be too powerful, I don't think.

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Debuff resistance to -recharge I have always though should be inherent in Hasten thus making it available to everyone who wants to pick up that power.

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Putting recharge debuff resistance in Hasten would be more than a bit borked, making Hasten even more of a "must have" power. Hasten is fine where it is. Personally, I think that the recharge debuff resistance should either go into Resilience (to make the power a better pick earlier) and/or Quick Recovery. It should also be on higher order than */Fire or */Invuln get it, if not just because */Regen has more click powers than because */Regen has to dump more activation time into keeping itself alive than any other defensive set I've seen. If only 1 power (Resilience) gets it: 30% (50% more than Temp Protection and Resist Elements). If 2 powers (Resilience + QR/Integration/Reconstruction/whatever): each contributes 17.5%, totally up to 35%.

Giving the debuff resistance to Resilience would also go hand-in-hand with making the power a better choice as well, imo. The stun resistance and protection is largely pointless because Integration already takes care of 99.9% of the stun situations out there and the actual dam resist is so small that slotting it up is pretty much pointless. If I had my way, I'd give it +res numbers on par with True Grit and High Pain Tolerance. Make the +res apply to more than just s/l and increase the +res so that it's actually worthwhile to enhance.

I can't remember when they were removed, but, at one point, Souvenirs (and possibly clues as well) had little rounded off squares with question marks inside that were used as placeholders for, what many people assume, what was supposed to be a picture of it. They've got loads of unused badges, so I think it would behoove them to expend some art resources to generating some little pictures for occasional clue and every souvenir.

Honestly, I don't really see the point of getting even more AoE on most teams. The teams I tend to join already have loads of mob destroying capability that lets the group plow through swathes of lts and minions. The hold ups tend to come from the actual hard targets that I excel at beating into small bit sized portions (or bite into small beating sized portions). By focusing on single target damage, I allow large groups to actually get to the next spawn faster by drastically decreasing the time required to defeat hard targets.

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It seems all the 'troll' effects of Superadine are limited to the 'unrefined' version? If that's the case, what are the effects of the 'refined' version? Is there an actual difference between the two or is it more an issue of moderation?

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Actually, because the Troll mutation has been canonically stated as being due to an overdose, I'm reasonably sure that the Family is capable of having their higher ups using the drugs simply by being stingy. It also begs the question of what the Family cuts the impure 'dyne with. Is it a traditional mind-altering street drug, which could possibly explain the affects of the Troll mutation on cognition and psyche, or is it something even cheaper (like milk powder, baking powder, etc. with cocaine).

Something else I just thought up is what if Superadine doesn't actually have a direct effect upon the mind of the subject. It could be that whatever substance the Family cuts their street 'dyne with has the mental effects, making it physically addictive and mind-altering. Another possible effect of this would be that the pure Superadine that the Family uses might not actually have any risk of OD'ing (you get tougher and more able to resist it the more you do, making it impossible to actually overdose), and it's the interaction of the chemicals in street Superadine, both the pure substance and impure substances used to cut it, that actually cause the Troll mutation.

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Move-Thousand Foot Krutch

"Move and show me what you can do
When you step into the circle and shake like we do"

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WOAH!

You busted out Christian music! Wehehellll!

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Seriously? I just let pandora pick my music. Had no idea that song was considered 'Christian'

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I let Pandora do my music selection as well. I generally run around on my Scrapper listening to a channel I've got set up to play songs from Broadway musicals, but recently I've taken up to listening to my new Cantus channel. I assume you guys can now tell that I'm a fan movie action scene wherein the sounds effects are heavily muted and a peaceful piece of classical music plays while gunfire and other deadly bits are hurled about in a chaotic flurry.

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On the subject of Superadyne, the negative effects are very, very clear mutation, significant brain degradation to the point of induced schizophrenia, uncontrollabe rage and heavy, heavy addiction and dependence. While there isn't any evidence of it, I would say it's pretty safe to say that extreme cases can lead to complete breakdown of vital functions as the body is pushed beyond all limits of safety and reason.

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I'm curious where you're getting a diagnosis of schizophrenia from. While I will give you that the Trolls show heavy evidence of the positive symptoms of schizophrenia (though they tend to lack hallucinations and tend to tend more towards delusions), they don't really demonstrate all of the negative symptoms: blunted affect, anhedonia, asociality, and avolition. Trolls actually show heightened affect even when in non-stressful and non-negative situations, demonstrate a great joy in base pleasures (breaking stuff), actively seek out others of their kinds, and are motivated enough to actually initialized gang wars.

I'd actually be curious to figure out what long term exposure to Superadine does, aside from the Troll mutation. Would it actually impede functionality as the body comes to depend on the additional benefits of the Superadine to perform normal operations (re: stop building muscles because the 'dyne makes weak muscles strong enough)? Would it simply cause diminishing effects as the body built up a tolerance to the granted superpowers? Would it actually cause an higher levels of the superpowers because your body has developed a tolerance (and is also supernaturally resilience thanks to the 'dyne) and can now handle larger quantities of the drug? Any of those could lead to some very interesting story lines.

Also, as a random side question, considering the relationship between humans and the Rikti, what would happen if a Rikti took 'dyne? What would happen if a Rikti OD'd on 'dyne? What would happen to a Troll subjected to the Rikti alteration process?

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I remember a Fire Controller first taught me the beauty of doing things that way. I believe he used a combination of Fire Cages plus Bonfire to have a de facto hold, which I found very impressive at the time.

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Nitpick -- I think it was probably Flashfires, the stun power, coupled with Fire Cages.

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Yeah, Cages + Bonfire is just a great way to get a lot of damage.

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What bothers me is that they want to turn my beloved “New Regen” into “Regen Classic”.

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Honestly, I don't think creating a separate set called */regen that operates like a toned down old version would please many people. I'd much rather they addressed the inherent weaknesses in */regen as compared to the other Scrapper secondaries. Allowing all of the +regen in the set to actually be enhanceable would do something for it or possibly adding some +regen to Recon (and get rid of the Toxic resist) and 20% heal to IH (because it's Instant Healing, not click and wait 5 seconds to actually notice anything). Reduce the recharge on Instant Healing but shorten the duration so that it has better synchronicity with the other */regen click powers (120 sec recharge, 25 sec duration). Another nice touch would be to either shorten or remove the animations (or make the animations interruptable) so that */regen doesn't eat so far into offensive capability. The biggest thing I want though is for Castle to give the set some friggin' debuff resistance like every other set gets (I swear, */regen is the only one that doesn't get any!).

I don't think creating another set is the solution though. I love playing current */regen. It's actually entertaining to keep myself alive. Old Regen was... boring. You just turned on your toggles and ran with it. If you want to do that, you've got */Willpower, */SR, */Shield, and so on. They just need to modify */regen so that it's actually a set for regeneration again (and can actually perform decently in an average player's hands).

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(edit: And sorry about the earlier tone. For some reason, I've been uncharacteristically confrontational recently. Not sure why.)

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I must be rubbing off on you.