Umbral

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I'm also not aware of any base accuracy change that accompanied the redraw change.

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The improved base accuracy was done a long time ago (back in the Jack Emmert days) to account for an old problem wherein you had to use up activation time to get in stance for some attacks. MA, BS, and Katana all have base accuracies of 1.05 rather than 1.0. The same applies for Archery and Assault Rifle. They're all 5% higher than they would be otherwise.

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are you on the dev team? if not remember that this thread is in the suggestions and ideas section. So if you are not going to add to the idea/suggestion then buzz off. Because this thread is not in the "I'm Happy with the Game how it is and want no further progress section" How do ideas and suggestions progress to being in the game? By us voicing our opinions of what we'd like. And by the dev team pushing themselves to make this game ever increasingly better. Let the dev team decide for themselves what is worth it and what isn't.

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I realize that what forum this is. The problem that I've got with your idea is that it brushes off every problem and says that it's incredibly easy to fix. Making it a paid expansion or bonus pack isn't going to pay for creating an entirely new system unless the price is ridiculously high and they can convince enough people that vehicles are important enough, which isn't a guarantee. Have you actually done any programming on a large scale? It's a helluva lot more complicated than you're implying, especially when you're dealing with modifying an existing engine to account for completely different movement physics while not damaging the existing movement physics and using up too many more processing resources.

As to you thinking I should find an "I'm Happy with the Game how it is and want no further progress section", you obviously don't know me. I'm a rather vocal proponent for game changes. I've got loads of ideas for how to improve the game. The difference is that I've actually thought mine out and tried to think of ways to deal with the problems involved in my ideas rather than simply saying "they should charge for it and that will let them spend all of the time and resources they need to".

As to the role of criticism and debate within the context of the Suggestions and Ideas forums, remember that criticism is allowed and even encouraged because it forces an idea to change to actually account for reality. You're not accounting for reality. Asking for stuff that is only going to happen with a lot of developer effort and expenditure of resources (re: Power Customization) happens all the time, but it's shot down every time it crops up just like your idea because it's already been talked about to death. Everything you bring up has already been brought up. You haven't contributed anything to the discussion that hasn't be brought up by someone else with a lot more forum cred and that did so in a much more eloquent and intelligent manner.

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I didn't say they're not related. I said that what tier a power is has no effect on how strong the power is. A power will not be made any stronger or weaker depending on what tier the power is. If a power is strong is is more likely to be a later tier power, but there is no example anywhere in game of a power being weakened just because it is a lower tier or higher tier power.


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Huh? I think you contradicted yourself like 5 or 6 times in that paragraph.

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People have been pointing it out to you this entire time and you're either too ignorant, oblivious, or just plain stubborn to realize it. Castle, who is the ultimate authority on the game numbers, has refuted this idea of yours as posited by other people in the past. He specifically stated that the strength of a power has nothing to do with when you get it. Basic powers come first. More complex ones come later. That's how it goes. 9 powers are designed for a set and then placed in their various tiers. The powers are made stronger or weaker depending on where they are made available.


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And you continue to contradict yourself.

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Care to try to point out my contradictions? Please. Really. I want you to. Saying they're there doesn't mean they actually exist, just like all of the other assumptions and comparisons you continue to make in this thread.

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The main problem I see going on here is people are thinking 2 dimensionally. I agree balance needs to be spread between each primary for each set, and each secondary to each set, but IMO 3 dimension thinking is needed to spread balance between a specific primary when matched up to a specific secondary. From what I've seen in the last several years playing various toons(or at least what sticks out the most) is force bolt and power push. I have yet to play every combination, so maybe I'm wrong, and there's others, but FF/NRG toon is the first I've come across.

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Are you trying to make yourself seem like some game balance messiah by bringing up completely pointless comparisons and claiming that everyone else is oblivious to it? Really... What you seem to be ignoring is that powers within sets that are outside the basic role of the set are going to be less efficient in order to preserve balance. A power within a set that is trying to operate out of that power set's typified role (Scrapper secondaries are survivability, primaries are damage, Controller primaries are control, secondaries are support, etc.) is going to be less efficient than it would be otherwise specifically because it's trying to operate outside of normal bounds that set operates within. Power Push deals more damage but has less knockback and a higher recharge than Force Bolt. The knockback is support and is higher for the support power set's power. Damage is higher for the damage power set's power.

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wikia is complete outdated and not updated by the paragonwiki team

use wiki.cohtitan.com or paragonwiki.com

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Actually, the "Archvillain Resistance" page is wrong on both the wikia and cohtitan versions of the site. The "Archvillain" page has the appropriate information.

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Though really what I meant is that I'd love to see some kick [censored] non-Parry/DA videos or read some stories of Regen feats like AV killing.

(While I'd love to see some Regen action in the RWZ challenge, it's my experience that Shockwave really makes a huge difference there so I suspect it would be a Claw/Regen scenario. Not that it isn't impressive to do with Claw/Regen.)

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I solo AVs and have completed the RWZ challenge on my DM/Regen. I've beaten most of the Praetorians (Mother Mayhem and Malaise are the big ones to mention; I couldn't kill dominatrix because she's horrible, evil, and resists damage like crazy) and a number of other AVs.

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How come blasters and kheldians are the only ATs that need "weaknesses?"

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Actually, all of the ATs have their own weaknesses. You're just not paying attention to them.

Blasters have low survivability which is counteracted by range.
Defenders and Controllers have low survivability and low damage but have excellent team support.
Tankers have high survivability but low damage.
Scrappers have to be in melee, which opens them up to many more attacks.
Kheldians don't really have weaknesses any more actually, since Quantum damage can now be resisted and is largely ignorable.

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These numbers can be tweaked. Cutting the recharge to 10% is a likely compromise, as APPs typically have end costs and/or recharge times weakened, and you can change neither on a passive. A single defense toggle with numbers comparable to the existing APP Frozen Armor is also a likely compromise.

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The problem I see with this is that it's going to have 3 easy to get powers that all have no downside. No other APP would have all of that. The closest that it gets at the moment is a single +res toggle and a severely weakened defense tier 9. With this, you'd have a mez power (which doesn't exist in any Blaster APP atm), a defense toggle that is significantly stronger that Frozen Armor (which only gets 10.5% def to s/l, 21% res to cold, and 7% res to fire), and a crazily powerful passive.

It doesn't help that the APP doesn't adhere to the basic makeup of an APP: 1 self defense, 1 emergency self defense, 1 attack, 2 control/debuff. You want 3 self defense and 2 attacks, with the attacks coming last (when, by example of all of the other blaster APPs, they should come first).

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out-damaging 95% of all scrappers.

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Why shouldn't the top 5% of blaster builds, in terms of strategy, cost (110%+ global recharge?), and experience, outperform the bottom 95% of scrappers? Compare a nearly unrealistically maximized build of one AT to the nearly unrealistically maximized build of another AT, or else it's just apples and oranges.

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The point of Claws' commentary was to point out that it would make the APP too strong. A moderately IO'd Blaster with this APP would be able to out damage and out survive heavily IO'd Scrappers. 16% +def(melee, ranged, AoE) from this toggle, 5.6% +def(all) from weave, 2.8% +def(all) from CJ/Hover, means that you're going to have 24.4 +def to all positions without going in to IOs at all. At the moment, that's only a few points shy of what an IO'd blaster can get if it busts it's [censored] for it.

To make this APP even remotely realistic, it would need a very heavy tweaking, not the least of which would be a reduction in numbers, switching of powers, and alteration of the order. At the very least, I'd expect Quickness to be removed (*/SR is the only power that gets anything like it and should probably stay that way), Practiced Brawler delayed until tier 3 so that it's available alongside Heightened Senses (which, by APP conversion would actually need to be type based +def on the order of 2% for s/l and 6% for f/c/n/e), and Elude to be put in at tier 4 (with a +def of only 15-20%). You'd probably get something like a shuriken or some such to fulfill the control/attack portions.

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I was going by the information on Coh/wikia which has the information I quoted.

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And that information is wrong. The information in this thread is correct, which is why I linked it in the first place.

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Is there any reason why I'm wrong and could someone provide more accurate stats or late game data?

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Yes, there are many reasons. First off, you're ignoring the +dam contributions of other powers. */SD, DM/*, Claws/*, and DB/* are all capable of achieving significantly better +dam than Kat/regen is capable of putting out. Sure, it has decent DPA (though not the highest at all), but it's not going to be the top ST dps in the least. If you want some evidence, check this thread and this thread. Scrapper Katana is below Dark and Dual Blades on both lists.

Bucky, do you care to actually address any of the problems you simply brush off? I don't think you quite grasp how big of a problem these issues that you so callously ignore or brush off are. The dev team doesn't have infinite resources. They've got to focus on specific things. They're not going to devote the resources required to create an entirely new, elaborate system like the one you want because it's just not worth it. Vehicles wouldn't do anything that the current travel powers don't already do and would require a large amount of work for what amounts to only a cosmetic change.

The game can't even do half of what you're suggesting it can (2 and 3). The "can't run on water" problem would cause vehicles to simply disappear as soon as you step in water and that still does nothing to counter the arguments that most of the doors in the game can't even be reached by roads and other ground vehicles friendly paths. Vertical movement is just too important. As to you combat suggestion, the game can't do that either. How are they going to give it hit points if it's a power? You want them to create a completely different mechanic for powers with hit points? That's a horrible use of resources when the game is just fine without them.

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I looked it up and they appear to have a flat 77% debuff
resistance to -tohit effects during the "Triangles up" phases.

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You're wrong there as well. The PToD only contribute to mez resistance. The debuff resistance is always there. It's also not always 77% resistance. It scales by the level of the AV. If you actually checked the link that I gave, you'd see the debuff resist numbers at each level. At level 50 (which I said), an AV has 85% debuff resistance. .15*30 = 4.5%

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I take issue with this because you're exaggerating (in my opinion) how much of a difference the def resistance makes.

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I don't believe I am at all. You're reading that into what I've been saying. I specifically stated that it means that a */wp is going to require an extra 1 attack for every 6 attacks that hits a */regen in order to get to the same level of def debuff resistance. It actually slows down the cascade by a remarkable amount. Even operating under the assumption that a cascade is going to occur (though, more often you'll die before that actually happens on any toon except for a */regen), it still requires 17% longer to get there and is less likely to happen because each attack contributes less which means that there is less chance for each attack to generate the cascade. It may not be incredibly significant from your standpoint if you're only operating off of "no cascade" or "cascade" but there is a definite and visible slow down of the speed of a def debuff cascade if you're actually paying attention. It's similar to the difference in combat regeneration with Fast Healing and without. It's not going to make a significant enough difference for absolutely everyone to see, but it's present and contributes.

I've never tried to exaggerate the importance of the def debuff resistance. I've only tried to say that yes, it does, in fact, have an affect. Just because you want to ignore it doesn't mean that it's not there.

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so it's not WP's def resistance that's making the difference, rather DA.

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As I said before, def debuff resistance's purpose isn't to actually negate the threat of a debuff cascade. It's to make the effect of the cascade less in magnitude and occur more slowly. It may not seem like much to you, but it's still a benefit of the debuff resistance and another reason why the ITF disproportionately favors */wp over */regen.

The entire point I've been trying to make with this entire line of debate we've found ourselves on is that. The ITF isn't a balanced domain of comparison for any of the scrapper secondaries, much less */wp and */regen.

There is still a reason to have */regen around excluding it being simply a legacy power set. */Regen can actually perform just as well and oftentimes better than */wp if it's got a good player behind it. It's not universally inferior as the OP seems to think. The problem most of the time is that most players who are using */regen aren't really of a caliber to pull it off.

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Which also means we're now full circle to "cascades so fast it may as well not be there" discussion. :P

I have a feeling we're simply not going to agree, here.

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Actually, my */wp is kat/wp, so I don't even notice the cascades actually, but that's why you should assume the same primary with different secondaries.

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I guess I meant as far as pvp goes, which I don't participate in.

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Actually, with the I13 changes, psionic resistance is actually pretty common. As an example, Temp Invulnerability actually provides +res (smash/lethal/psionic) in PvP. Tough provides +res(all). There a number of other similar cases.

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Let's be honest, how often does it happen that extra mobs aren't pulled, or the Tank hits the aggro cap, or that Scrappers try to clean up loose mobs, or the team splits, etc. Ideally none of these would happen, but from my experience they are not rare by any means.

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In those situations, my */regen is getting beat on just as often as my */wp, but that's also due to the fact that my */regen runs with DC and SD which mean that I'm attracting the hate either way.

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What puts up the most single target damage, and what's the most survivable?

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Six scrappers. Still far and away the best pets defenders get. Usually not quite as smart as the AI, but that's why defenders have that "team chat" command option.

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Sure. I'll be your pet. You better feed me though- I eat alot of carrots! Also, when its time for me to "go out" you better make sure that I can, or you will be cleaning up after me. I need regular vet apointments for my fleabite dermatitis, regular oatmeal baths, and lots and lots of snuggles.

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On the Care and Feeding of Your Scrapper(s). We insist on a minimum level of care or we'll turn on you.

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To my knowledge DoT abilities cannot crit

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Your knowledge is wrong. DoT powers can crit, but they only check once and for the sum of the power. When Shadow Maul crits, it does all of the damage for the entire power in a single burst. Individual increments of a DoT cannot proc, but all of the powers can and do. This is the same reason why Midnight Grasp crits are bigger than the initial hit: the crit accounts for the extra damage that is applied over time.

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Thing about psionic vs sonic though, is that if history is any indication, the devs will give psionic some odd numbers to get it to balance vs the low resistance found to psionic damage.

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Actually, psionic resistance is actually rather high across all enemies in the game. Fire is actually the least resisted type (Energy is close). I'm assuming this argument is being brought up for the attack sets, considering armor sets don't really care who or what damage you're putting out. Personally, I don't think damage type should actually reduce damage done whatsoever. If anything, s/l and other highly resisted types should be given a slight buff to account for their highly resisted nature.

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I know this is a question, but I suspect I'll get a better answer asking this question in this thread rather than in the questions thread.

I'm not familure with Fulcrum shift at all, so i'm not even sure if this is an legit question...

Lets say you had a defender but did not have kin as your secondary.

Would it be possible to buff yourself with reds to the point that it would be "like" you had a "temp" Fulcrum shift? Speaking damage wise only here obviously.

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Each small red inspiration is 25% +dam. Fulcrum shift can generate up to 300% +dam (50% from the local buff from the 'fender and 25% from each of the buffs from up to 10 enemies). This means that, in order to get yourself up to there you'd need 12 small red inspirations.

However, something to consider is that defenders have a +dam cap of 300% and +dam enhancements in your attacks will actually operate against this cap. If you're packing 95% +dam from enhancements, it's only going to take 8 small red inspirations to get you to 295% +dam, which is close enough to be equivalent. This also means that most Kin defenders are wasting benefit from FS on themselves because they've already got 95% +dam from their slotting, which all goes to waste (or 4 of the FS buffs go to waste).

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You say that WP's def resistance will slow down the cascade... slower than not being attacked as frequently like a Regen due to the lack of a taunt aura? I'd completely disagree. (Remember, this started from a comment about the ITF, not solo, so that's the angle I'm approaching this from.)

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That's also assuming that there's not a Brute or Tanker nearby that's taunting those targets as well. Unless you're letting lose with AoEs like crazy, it's more like for the Brute or Tanker to have aggro on those targets than you.

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Cheers for the quick response pal!

The final build I'm looking at has 110.5% max HP and 307% regeneration. Do you think that will be sufficient?

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You're not packing the +hp accolades? Why? That's 20% +hp that you're not getting.

If you get those, you'll be packing near cap max hp of 1572.26. With 307% regeneration (207% +regen), you'll get from 1 hp to max in 78.15 seconds, which means that you'll have 20.11 hp/sec regen. If you meant 307% +regen (407% total regen), you'll get from 1 hp to max in 58.97 seconds for 26.66 hp/sec regen.

Aid Self (with 95% +heal from slotting and 200% +rech from slotting and global +rech) will provide 460.4 hp every (4.488 activation + 6.67 recharge) = 11.155 seconds. That's 41.27 additional hp/sec but requires 40% of your activation time (which isn't gonna be enough time to let lose with the AV killing DPS). Luckily, you probably won't need to use it that often.

If you're packing softcap defense and fighting an even level AV (no level difference acc bonus), 3 out of every 40 attacks will hit you on average. Assuming it takes 1 minute for the AV to get out those 40 attacks and the AV deals 400 damage with each hit, you're going to have 1200 damage that you need to recover from every minute in order to keep stable. With your baseline hp/sec, you're recovering either 1206.6 hp/minute or 1599.6 hp/minute. That's a conservative damage estimate for the AVs though.

Keep in mind that AVs are more than capable of getting in 2 attacks one after the other and that they've often got attacks that deal more damage than others.

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My problem with that is how fast defense cascades.

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Def debuff resistance like */wp has won't prevent a def debuff cascade, but it will slow it down. Debuff resistance is only meant to trivialize a specific debuff in a few circumstances (*/SR and */SD come to mind). For everyone else, the purpose is to reduce the end effect or slow down the catastrophic arrival of the cascade.

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But if your concept is an AV hunter it can provide a similar level of protection.

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No, it can't. DM can stack up ~30% -tohit with a decent attack string. Archvillains have very significant debuff resistance that, at level 50, will reduce the value of that 30% -tohit to 4.5% -tohit.

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And the lack of debuff resistance means that Regeneration is the one secondary that can be essentially turned off if hit with enough debuffs.

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How do defense debuffs turn off Regeneration?

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The quote was referring to generic debuffs, probably referring to recharge and regeneration debuffs (which can turn off */regen's effectiveness rather easily).

As to how defense debuffs can "turn off" */regen, you've heard of the defense debuff cascade correct? Get hit, get def debuffed, get hit more, etc. Regen gets hit harder by the def debuff cascade because it's got less def to actually debuff and no def debuff resistance to mitigate the effects of it. 17.34% def debuff resistance might not seem like much, but it means that you're going to need to get hit an extra def debuff for every 5-6 that a */regen gets hit by to get to the same level of reduced defense.

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Is 44.9% enough ranged defense? As AVs have a higher accuracy modifier (1.5 - basically 75% accuracy) I thought that the defense might be lower in relation to their accuracy. Or am I wrong in understanding defense?

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Since 45% defense is the softcap (which means that anything over that just serves as a buffer to counteract the rare +tohit or the more common -def), 44.9% should be mostly fine, as long as you're not dancing into melee often. The accuracy modifier just increases the final value of the tohit roll, meaning that the 5.1% base chance to hit that you're bringing them down to would be multiplied by 1.5 to a 7.65% chance to hit. 45% +def would get that tohit chance to 7.5% and no amount of +def above it would decrease it further.

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Also...aid self. Is it needed?

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It's not needed, but it's probably going to be nice to have. Because you're going to get hit eventually, you want to have some method of recovering from the damage. Your best bets are either Aid Self or IO slotting for regeneration and +hp (which increases regeneration by recovering more per tick).