Ultimus

Some strong cases have been made with Super Strength all centering around the AOE it gets and the Rage power it gets. However, what about Stone Melee?

A previous poster said that Super Strength without rage would be underpowered... so how does this hold up to stone melee?

Edit: I am convinced with Super Strength now but I am still not convinced with Stone Melee. People made good points and Super Strength has some great staple powers.

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If only stone melee had rage.... *sigh*
Oh, and something like KO blow instead of fault. Grr.

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Seismac Smash deals damage equal to KO blow they just get it at 18.

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Rage is 80% damage buff that is still perma-able in addition it also buffs accuracy. so you need not slot accuracy in the attacks anymore leaveing you more slots to play with.

Also, my milage always seems better when i'm working with attacks that do knockdown as opposed to stun,mez,etc
knockdown they're not attacking you AND they're not superspeeding away either.
Energy Melee is heavy on Mez if i recall. Stone and Strength are heavy on Knockdown

add in the fact that Stone and Strength both have MUCH better AoE attacks (again with lots of knockdown ability and a a higher brawl index rating) and the sets begin to look a bit better.

oh yeah and one more thing. Energy Melee doesn't have a ranged attack. stone and SS both do. slow. but its there.

power isn't always measured in pure DPS.

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Regarding the AOE attacks...

Stone Melee and Energy Melee AOE attacks have the same brawl index with Energy dealing some energy damage. Super Strength's AOE has a higher brawl index but at the same time the recharge timer is much longer then the timer on EM's AOE attack.

Edit: Additionally, I believe the accuracy buff of Rage is only 20-25%. (I would have to double check as I am not sure on this ...)

Second Edit: The COH hero builder claims Rage gives 83% accuracy buff... however I would of sworn that on the Tanker forums it was around the number listed above through various testing by KaliMagelena or whatever her name is.

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SS underpowered? Without Rage, most certainly. With rage, and it has the best melee DPS bar none.

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And what about Stone Melee?

Additionally, I don't think the smashing damage coupled with rage is going to get any near Energy Melee's damage. Smashing damage is very resisted in the end game.

Btw, here are the endurance costs (Although I think the recent 11.5% reduction or whatever is NOT factored in)

Energy Melee

Super Strength

Stone Melee

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SS is nice cause you get knockout blow so early but i agree that concept would normally be the only reason to chose the other primaries

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Indeeed, the reason I don't include DM or FM is because they have their own reasons to be on par with EM. (DM has NICE utility and FM has some good AE/Fire damage)

Personally, it seems to me that Stone Melee/Super Strength might be underpowered? Unless someone can share their insight who has played EM and SM or EM and SS?

My title is a little deceiving because I am only going to refer to two primaries versus Energy Melee. (I am NOT going to include Fire or Dark)

Basically, why would someone (Other then concept) pick Super Strength or Stone Melee over Energy Melee?

1) SS/SM both deal smashing damage compared to Energy Melee's Energy/Smashing Damage. Smashing/Lethal damage becomes VERY resisted in the end game. Thus, SS/SM will lose out on DPS as levels progress.

2) Stone Melee/Super Strength both have knockback and Energy has disorient. All the level 8 (Knockoutblow) and 18 (Total Focus/Seismac Smash) have holds. I'd say this evens out. (Although Disorient is sometimes considered "weaker" since enemies behave oddly at times)

3) The Brawl Indexes are almost identical:

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Energy Melee-
Barrage - 0.6944 Smashing * 2 + 0.2500 Energy * 2
Energy Punch - 1.9444 Smashing + 0.8333 Energy
Bone Smasher - 2.7778 Smashing + 1.7778 Energy
Whirling Hands - 1.6667 Smashing + 1.1111 Energy
Stun - 0.4167 Smashing + 0.2778 Energy
Energy Transfer - 4.3333 Smashing + 8.3333 Energy
Total Focus - 2.7778 Smashing + 7.1111 Energy

Stone Melee

Stone Fist - 2.7778 Smashing
Stone Mallet - 4.5556 Smashing
Heavy Mallet - 6.3333 Smashing
Hurl Boulder - 4.5556 Smashing
Tremor - 2.7778 Smashing
Seismic Smash - 9.8889

-Super Strength-
Jab - 1.8889 Smashing
Punch - 2.7778 Smashing
Haymaker - 4.5556 Smashing
Knockout Blow - 9.8889 Smashing
Hurl - 4.5556
Foot Stomp - 3.9444 Smashing

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5) Here are the activation times for each set:

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Barrage 1.3 seconds
Energy Punch .6
Bone Smasher 1.5
Whirling Hands 1.7
Stun 1.8
Energy Transfer 1
Total Focus 3.3

Stone Fist .6
Stone Mallet 1.5
Heavy Stone Mallet 1.5
Fault 2.1
Hurl Boulder 3.8
Tremor 3.3
Seismac Smash 1.5 (Equal to Total Focus in brawl index)

Jab 1.1
Punch 1.2
Haymaker 1.5
Hand Clap 1.2
Knockout Blow 2.2
Hurl 3.8
Foot Stomp 2.1

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Stone Fists is (recharge 4)
Stone Mallet is (recharge 8)
Heavy Mallet is (recharge 12)
Fault is (recharge 20)
Seismic Smash is (recharge 20)
Hurl Bolder is (recharge 8)
Tremor is (recharge 14)

EM
Barrage - 2
Energy Punch - 4
Bone Smasher - 8
Whirling Hands - 14
Total Focus - 20
Stun - 20
Energy Transfer - 20

SS
Jab - 2
Punch - 4
Haymaker - 8
Hand Clap - 30
KO Blow - 25
Hurl - 8
Foot Stomp - 20

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Finally, the endurance costs are the same across the board assuming the brawl index is equal. That means if a power has a brawl index of say 5, the endurance cost is the same as the power with a brawl index of 5 in another set. (NOTE: Only applies to these sets with a few minor exceptions)

Ultimately, I am wanting to know why would anyone choose Super Strength or Stone Melee over Energy Melee? (Concept builds NOT included)

I know SS gets Rage which is a nice power but is it really worth it to sacrifice everything energy gets?

I am really hoping for a response because I cannot see why would anyone choose these two sets.

Just a villain concept that I made up after thinking about prisons and researching them a little. If someone wants the concept they are more then welcome to it. I am just curious if anyone has ever thought of the Zig in this perspective...

<Character Name> wasn't always considered evil. When he was younger, he committed a minor crime against Crey Industries. It was part of a teenage joke to rob one of the Crey stores for some electronic devices (Car Stereo, TV's etc) for their new college life. Unfortunately, Crey caught the poor soul on camera and soon had him sentenced for a year in the Zig Prison... The minor was tried as an adult even though he was only 17.

<Character Name> lived a life of misery inside the Zig. Unbeknownst to the rest of the world, some of the guards inside the Zig prison are abusive. Kevin (Or any guard name you prefer) was in charge of <Character's Name> cellblock. Kevin would often go on power trips beating prisoners, coaxing them into fights, and more.

This abuse slowly turned an innocent child into a man full of hatred. The more abuse he endured the more he hated the people around him. He slowly began to lose his humanity.

Ironically, the Zig was suppose to rehibilitate convicts; however, the corruption inside the prison actually created them...

Lord Recluse and his forces broke into the prison one night. As I emerged from the cell block, I picked up a weapon and saw Kevin the guard. His eyes were wide in fear...

He would soon feel the pain I suffered from him and the rest of the guards... and then I'd share it with the rest of the world.

-----------

Anyways, I wrote it fairly fast but I just wanted to share the general concept. I thought it would make an interesting twist on the prison of COH/COV

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Not really sure what happened but the sounds for Dark Armor still aren't fading away. I'll let Sound know so we can get this fixed right away.

The fade to Mud Pots is in as is the one for Super Speed. I also asked Sound to fade some of the Warshade toggles, namely Orbiting Death, Shadow Cloak and Nebulous Form.

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Thanks for the reply.

They were asking me to please shut off the armor inbetween fights because the looping sound effects were getting annoying. Will the developers ever fix this like they did the other armor sets (IE Regeneration) where the sound loops for X amount of time then fades?

Don't see it either.

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There was a bug found near the end of beta where it was realized that the Upgrade powers did not benefit from Enhancements in the Henchmen powers.

This was fixed and was in the version that was on test last week. Unfortunately the patch note did not go with it, AND no one told me the fix was up there.

Anyway, long story short is that the fix is now LIVE, and your Henchmen should be fully Enhanced when you use your Upgrade powers.

Sorry about this screw up. I wanted you guys to test it before it went to Live to see if it made MM's too powerful.

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Not sure if this is too powerful but I can solo on relentless (Hardest difficulty) at a decent rate. I am a merc/traps Mastermind.

Edit: I am currently 27 with all of my SO's. Once I hit 32 it may become a blood bath with all my AE's.

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MMs were able to solo at that difficulty during beta with the bug in place. It's just a matter of how fast.

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Yes but now I can clear a relentless mission in the time it took me to clear a heroic mission before the bug was fixed. I just took down a +3 freak tanker (And I am Mercs) VERY fast compared to before. It used to take 5 minutes, now it took like a minute.

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You know what, I'm not sure I believe you. I know you cant do that with robots or undead. Because I've seen those MM's in action. Go do a demorecord and let the devs see it. Before you go sprouting out stuff that gets the whole powerset nerfed.

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How do I do a demorecord? I will make one.

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Mercs have like 40% Smashing/Lethal resistance

Edit: In other words, yes they are fairly superior to Ninjas because Resists > Defense.

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Mercs have 20% Resist to Smashing and Lethal ONLY, that scales up to 28% Resistance to S/L somewhere in the 20s. Commando has token resistance (7%) to Fire, Cold, and Toxic.

And Resistance is NOT better than Defense, they're fairly comparable.

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Heh resists are superior -- All the best defensive builds involve resists. Ice Armor, Super Reflexes, Energy Armor, etc, all defense based armors are much poorer in comparison to resists.

Defense is not reliable while resists are.

Your ninjas get one shotted by a tanker, my mercs take a hit and laugh as my medic proceeds to heal them and the tank switches targets and hits someone else. Then my medic heals that guy. It is a game of ping pong.

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Hardest difficulty would give you purple bosses. An orange Freakshow boss will kill Genin in 1 hit. A purple Freakshow boss will kill Jounin in 1 hit. I can't take on those missions solo at that sort of difficulty setting, even if my minions had their damage output doubled!

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Well, Mercs is a ranged set, and Traps has Caltrops to keep foes out of melee. If he combines Caltrops with Acid Mortar, and lures foes to choke points in maps, I can see him doing it. The only problem is that Triage isn't the greatest healing power, which means he'd need Aid Other to keep up with the incoming ranged damage.

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Mercs have a medic.

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Not sure if this is too powerful but I can solo on relentless (Hardest difficulty) at a decent rate. I am a merc/traps Mastermind.

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I just don't see how that's possible, unless Mercs are vastly superior to Ninjas.

Hardest difficulty would give you purple bosses. An orange Freakshow boss will kill Genin in 1 hit. A purple Freakshow boss will kill Jounin in 1 hit. I can't take on those missions solo at that sort of difficulty setting, even if my minions had their damage output doubled!

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Mercs have like 40% Smashing/Lethal resistance

Edit: In other words, yes they are fairly superior to Ninjas because Resists > Defense.

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There was a bug found near the end of beta where it was realized that the Upgrade powers did not benefit from Enhancements in the Henchmen powers.

This was fixed and was in the version that was on test last week. Unfortunately the patch note did not go with it, AND no one told me the fix was up there.

Anyway, long story short is that the fix is now LIVE, and your Henchmen should be fully Enhanced when you use your Upgrade powers.

Sorry about this screw up. I wanted you guys to test it before it went to Live to see if it made MM's too powerful.

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Not sure if this is too powerful but I can solo on relentless (Hardest difficulty) at a decent rate. I am a merc/traps Mastermind.

Edit: I am currently 27 with all of my SO's. Once I hit 32 it may become a blood bath with all my AE's.

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MMs were able to solo at that difficulty during beta with the bug in place. It's just a matter of how fast.

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Yes but now I can clear a relentless mission in the time it took me to clear a heroic mission before the bug was fixed. I just took down a +3 freak tanker (And I am Mercs) VERY fast compared to before. It used to take 5 minutes, now it took like a minute.

[ QUOTE ]
There was a bug found near the end of beta where it was realized that the Upgrade powers did not benefit from Enhancements in the Henchmen powers.

This was fixed and was in the version that was on test last week. Unfortunately the patch note did not go with it, AND no one told me the fix was up there.

Anyway, long story short is that the fix is now LIVE, and your Henchmen should be fully Enhanced when you use your Upgrade powers.

Sorry about this screw up. I wanted you guys to test it before it went to Live to see if it made MM's too powerful.

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Not sure if this is too powerful but I can solo on relentless (Hardest difficulty) at a decent rate. I am a merc/traps Mastermind.

Edit: I am currently 27 with all of my SO's. Once I hit 32 it may become a blood bath with all my AE's.

WOOOOOOOOOOOT

I got mine from Babbages (Which is owned by Gamestop, kind of like Funcoland) and I only got six of the seven and I was missing Ghost Widow. I fired an email to support@cityofheroes.com and see what they said. I know Loki posted but I am not sure what I am suppose to do to receive my missing figure.

They will appreciate this -- I think Ice Tankers should get this too.

Erm, I am a bit confused by this so maybe someone can explain. This is how I am reading this:

If I exemplar down, my SO's will lose power as long as I exemplared correct? I would of sworn that I once exemplared to level 2 or 3 before and my Hasten was still perma. If SO's lost their power, wouldn't Hasten no longer be perma?

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Who said Manticore can control the TPing 100%?

Also, the move he did in the CoV trailer *did* have merit.

Basically, his two positions are kind of like comparing a sniper position with then sliding on your knees up to near-point blank range on your opponent.

Anyway, if any physics/bow people are handy: Would being closer to the target give his arrows more impact force?

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I know a lot about physics so I'll take a shot at this if no one else has:

An arrow should be designed to have as little friction moving through the air as possible. Essentially, being closer to the target would create more impact because the arrow wouldn't have slowed very much due to the air. However, the fact the arrow would be aerodynamic it would make VERY little difference. (We might be talking millimeters per second different)

The reason something like a gun does more damage at point blank range is because when a gun is fired it has hot air that shoots out the barrel. This air is very hot and also leaves a nice burn mark on the skin. (You find this a lot on suicide victims that used a gun)

Good luck to your brother, my cousin in law is also in Iraq and has been there for some time.

Additionally, thanks for posting your ideas without them being polished. I REALLY hate Blizzard's system where everything has to be approved by higher ups for posting.

Thanks again Statesman

I am posting this idea to get some Blaster feedback on my idea for making Defiance more useful at higher levels. At low levels I think it is a great ability but as a Blaster levels up it becomes less useful due to one shots and such. My idea will also help blaster survivability at higher levels.

Defiance will now give Blasters an inherent ability to avoid being one-shotted when they are above 20% health. This means that if a Blaster is above 20% health, any attack done to him can only reduce him to one hitpoint. However, if the blaster is below 20% health his bar will turn purple signifying he can be one shotted.

NOTE: DOT attacks would be capable of one shotting a blaster since it is multiple attacks. This would be the "weakness" of this ability. Criticals would also be considered a DOT since it is two applied attacks. The other weakness to this ability would be it would not protect from being hit at the same time from multiple enemies.

This ability would essentially allow Blasters at higher levels to sacrifice hitpoints safely at higher levels without the fear of being one-shotted. It'll also give them an inherent defense versus one shots at levels. Blasters should still be careful in teams of aggroing multiple mobs or attacking mobs with high damage DOT attacks.

Thoughts?

Additionally, perhaps Defiance should scale .5% per level -- This means that at 50 your first buff +40% damage would come at 60% health instead of 40% health.

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Oddly enough, I've never seen Babbage in Boomtown, but have seen him in Skyway at least a dozen times (appearing as part of the Synapse TF).

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Same here.