Ultimus
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Posts
1800 -
Joined
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I know 12 points isn't much but I would be mad if I found this out after I bought it, trying to give people a heads up.
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Quote:It won't be available for this sale due to technical difficulties but it will be offered soon with the same pricing.Originally Posted by Aramar
Nevermind....question answered. -
Its cheaper to buy all the individuals pieces then it is to buy the set.
Set costs 400 Points,
Individual pieces are:
ACC/DMG -- 50 points
DAM/END -- 70 points
DMG/RECH -- 85 Points
DMG/END/RECH 113
Knockdown Bonus -- 70
Total cost 388... -
I asked if he's ever looked into it and he said he has not but he is willing to consider it. I thought I'd stop by before sending off a reply at what he needs to look at. Tankers don't have an egregious level of underperformance but there is room for improvement. With that being said, here's my questions:
What problems do you feel Tankers have?
Why do you feel this is a problem?
What would you do to Tankers to improve them? Why?
And what quantifiable data would you use to justify such a change? -
Quote:What was the trapdoor fiasco?Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
I really hope they make this post before i22 goes live, so we don't have a repeat of the Trapdoor fiasco.
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Quote:You mean 480% or 580%? Wasn't sure if you were including base or not.Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I did, and went back and fixed it.
No I did not go the the Pummit. Me being in the same room as the devs would be like crossing the streams bad.
Well, no, not 775%. It'd be less because of the AT mods. You have to adjust for that, then adjust for the 10% better max HP and to account for Bruising.
I think, if my math is correct, adjusting for AT mods, Bruising and the max HP difference, the Tanker damage cap should be raised from 400 to 478%.
Round up to 480% maybe?
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4.80 X .8 = 3.84 + (3.84 X 20) = 4.608
A Brute at damage cap is 7.75 X .75 = 5.8125
A Scrapper is 6.0 (1.2 X 5)
Considering a Brute has Tanker resist/def caps I still think that number is shy.
On another note, why do Scrappers and Stalkers still have a higher regen cap? Yes I know the HP differences but originally the justification *WAY* back in the day (From Geko I believe) was because of Regeneration being available to them... -
The only other options in a trial setting though is:
Non Tanks get one shot -- Which would be hard to balance because for this to work every tank would have to be at or near the AT cap. -- Not all tanks can reach this.
Raising Tankers resistance cap, question here would be why?
I do like the idea of Tankers bringing things like Bruising to teams, although their damage cap should still be raised.
Another interesting idea would be if Tankers brought a debuff that when they hit an opponent it got this debuff. Tankers would receive the biggest bonus from it and the debuff would basically give the tankers "procs" for extra damage. (Think like a fiery embrace)
Other ATs could benefit from it but no where near as much as tankers. -
Also I completely agree with you, IMO, Tanker damage cap should be raised to 775% like Brutes.
It could be justified that they cannot build fury, therefore, its a lot harder for them to reach that potential cap. -
Quote:You mean Stalkers and Tankers?Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
A Shield/SS Tanker is going to be bumping into the damage cap with stacked Rage and 5 enemies in range. Less if they're using Musculature or have a Kin on the team.
That's it. Aside from bonus damage, they'll never do better. Dead end.
+Recharge you say? Increasing recharge sees sharp diminishing returns; eventually, you can't make KO Blow come back much faster so it even matters.
Meanwhile, a comparable SS/Shield Brute still has plenty of room to grow both offensively and defensively. The Brute can continue to layer on even more mitigation, not that they're fragile in the first place, and continue to have better damage. If they add more Incarnate powers that buff damage down the line, the Brute has the freedom to build in that direction too. Tanker absolute offensive potential is kneecapped while Brutes enjoy much more potential in that area and retain nearly as much maximum defensive potential.
In a real world example, on a league, that SS/Shield Brute will have so many buffs on them they're not in great fear of dieing. They'll benefit no matter if they're with a Kin, Sonic or bubbler. That Shield/SS Tanker, however, will get nothing from all the Fulcrum Shifts in the world because they hit the cap long ago.
Sheild/SS is an outlier, but not by much. My Incarnate Inv/SS hits the cap too.
Tankers are against a glass ceiling in a way the other melee ATs aren't and it's going to become more evident the deeper we get into the Incarnate system. It only gets worse the more defensive temp powers and buffs that are added to the game that Brutes and Scrappers get their hands on.
I don't think that's fair to Tankers, and in comparison its plain broken for Brutes and Scrappers. I've already had this conversation this week in the Unanswered Pummit Questions thread in regards to the current melee situation overall and how the two ATs at the extremes (Stalkers and Brutes) continue to get the short end of the stick. The devs are TRYING to come to Stalkers aid again, after 10 issues. Lets hope Tankers don't have to wait until i28.
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Also did you go the Summit? -
I noticed patrol exp doesn't work in AE. Does an EXP booster work in it? The one from the store?
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Quote:I agree, part of what I said in the original post, other ATs are 75% of tankers defense yet Tankers are not 75% of the other ATs offense.Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Regardless, at their limits they still do like 80% more damage than Tankers while having only 10% less Max HP and the same Resistance caps. That ratio shouldn't fly.
Even if we adjust for Bruising that's still 60% more ST damage and 80% more AoE. That's 50% and 70% more than they really ought to have.
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Quote:That was Independence Day and I think that was before I-Whatevers even existed.Originally Posted by Talen Lee
That's nonsense. You can hack alien tech with an ibook. I know, I saw it in a movie somewhere. How much more different could the tech be from Praetorian Erf?
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Quote:No the refer a friend works on premium accounts too, it works on anything that isn't VIP. If its a premium account the account has to not have been VIP for 90 days.Originally Posted by Aggelakis
OK. So, basically, the Refer a Friend deal requires you to sign up for a subscription on the referred account. I was going to do this anyway for my sister through the starter kit, but it looks like even at the start of things, you have to subscribe just for the Refer a Friend to take effect; this blocks you from using the VIP kit because you can't have spent any money on an account to use it.
Since this deal is a subscription for a dollar, I think it could work. -
Well the cap for them went down 75 % used to be 850.
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How were they buffed? Fury? Never had a problem raising fury before..
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Quote:Maybe you are mistaken, they dont sell retail codes anymore now the game is free. Basically this deal is selling a paid month for 1 dollar not a retail code.Originally Posted by Brillig
You won't get the bonus unless your sister's account pays for a subscription with a credit card or game time card - a 'retail code' doesn't count. That's exactly how it worked when they had the $1.99 offer, so why would it change now?
I find it rather amusing that you think that Paragon would be selling 1000 points for a dollar. -
Yep you are screwed
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Quote:I look forward to hearing this.Originally Posted by Aggelakis
It seems account management is down for maintenance, or I'd try this. I was going to set up a Preemie account for my sister anyway, might as well try to get bennies for me along the way. Once maintenance is over, I'll do the refer a friend and we'll see what happens at that point. Then on Friday, I'll do the 99 cent deal and we'll see what happens at THAT point.
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Its been a few years (Since like Issue 6...) since I have stepped back into the tanker forum. Last Tanker I had was a Stone/SS Tanker that is now long gone.
So how are Tankers nowadays? One of the old things that bugged me was that Brutes and Scrappers got 75% of Tanker values on defenses but Tankers did not get no where near 75% of their damage value. Has this changed?
How is bruising? Are there any other changes? I know HP got a boost, did that make much of a difference? -
Quote:Right thanks for posting this but doesn't completely answer my question so I will clarify:Originally Posted by Liquid
He was specifically referring to the market IOs. Those work down to -3 of the minimum level of the set. So if it's a 20-40 IO, you lose the set bonuses if you exemplar to level 16 or lower, even if you are level 50. Since IOs don't have their own native level, they bypass the rule that in-game IOs have for exemplaring 4 or more levels below the enhancement level.
Exemplaring doesn't quite work like that on enhancement values. There's a table that is referenced, and the enhancement value is multiplied by a value related to the difference between your level and the level you exemplared to (this value will be less than 1, so the value goes down). In many cases, this means that your IO will be worth less in enhancement value than an IO of the level that you are exemplared to.
Here's the Paragonwiki article on it for more details, though note that store bought IOs use a slightly different scale from in-game IOs based on testing. I'm not sure how accurate the article is, however, as "Any individual benefits of 20% or less are unaffected by Exemplaring down as far as level 21" doesn't sound correct to me, as it would mean that Schedule B enhancements aren't scaled down at all from 50 to 22. I haven't tested that in a while (like, probably 2 years), but I'm certain that was not true the last time I did (Edit: I just tested it and no, it's not universally true as written. Even level Defense SOs, which are exactly 20%, do scale down when a 50 exemplars to level 24. I had 3 Def SOs in a power, and it went from 56% enhancement after ED to 41.6%). It may be referring to dual/triple/quad aspect IOs, however, which do not scale within certain ranges for certain values. I don't remember the details on those, however.
Lets say I buy a Luck of the Gambler Store Bought enhancement, it levels as you level.
The value of LOTG Def/END at level 25 is 12.5%/20.8%
The value of a LOTG Def/END at level 50 is 15.9%/26.5% (Def/End)
When exemplaring you get a penalty which decreases the IO's value:
At level 25, this penalty is 0.733 meaning your enhancement is .733 effective taking a level 50 LOTG DEF / END to 11.6547/19.4245 when you exemplar to 25.
So here's my question, when I exemplar with a store bought IO, does the IO act as a level 25 IO, a level 25 IO with penalties, or a level 50 IO with penalties?
If it acts as a level 25 IO, the bonus when I exemplar down will be 12.5%/20.8%
If it acts as a level 25 IO with penalties from exemplar it will be 12.5% X .733 (Penalty and 20.8 X .733 penalty
If it acts as a level 50 IO with penalties when I exemplar it will be 11.65/19.42.
This matters if I decide to buy one of these,
Please can a redname answer? -
Quote:Right thats what the vip deal is a month sub for a dollar.Originally Posted by MapServer
Your friend must pay for at least a one-month subscription to City of Heroes Freedom, you and the friend you refer will each get 500 Paragon Points automatically.
So only after your friend pays $15 will you both get the 500pp -
Quote:Originally Posted by Liquid
No.
Ok how does enhancement value work with them when exemplaring? I know the set bonuses work at any level.
Ie if I have a level 35 Kinetic Combat boosted it gains 25% more value. When I exemplar to lets say level 20, the value of the IO boost decreases. Does the IO value here still maintain the 25 percent boost?
And on store bought, how does the value work? If I exemplar down does the IO become a level 20 io vale followed by the exemplar penalty? Or will it be a a level 35 io with exemplar penalty? Or will it be a level 20 io no penalty? -
Trying to get a response here; I can refer a lot of friends if you can do the refer a friend (both parties get 500 points).
Essentially it could be 500 points = 1 dollar.
So could a redname respond? Does the refer a friend work with it? -
Can store bought enhancers be boosted?
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Question can the refer a friend work with the 1 dollar vip sale?
I could make a bunch of accounts at 1 dollar each and make 500 points per... That would be like 80 percent off points