UberGuy

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the solution is the same for all collectors of any item in any reality.
Pay for it

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Bzzzt. We have a loser. (The idea, not the poster.)
[*] This is a game. The more like reality it becomes, the less I will appreciate it.[*] As matters stand, the only people who have to "pay for it" are the people outside the level ranges where rare doohicky "X" is a valid drop. Why are people so willing to accept a solution that only screws a part of the player base out of a potential reward?

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The system will have rarity whether people want it or not.

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And rarity need not be in any way gated by level.

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Dear devs,
PLEASE, Keep the Pool B story arc plan.

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Dear devs, please listen to everyone here, not just those who are convinced that theirs is the only way.

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Assuming that all stacks, you're getting 35% +Regen and 21.9% Recovery per power. Times three it comes to 105% Regen and 65.7% Recovery. Congrats, you've exceeded the benefits of Health, but not Stamina, and now you have only at most three slots in Aid Self and Dull Pain to use for actual healing. Are you really feeling eager to slot powers like this?

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It's great that you have counter examples, but that does nothing for the pro examples. Lets take a Regen Scrapper. There's a lot of give and take over whether to ever slot Fast Healing. If you take Health that's another power you have a lot of slack on whether you bother slotting. Now, instead of slotting Heals in these powers, which give you +33% off the base, you could now slot straight up +Regen IOs. You get the best return out of slotting no Heals in these powers and slotting them only with +Regen IOs.

Also, for your example of an Invuln Scrapper, don't forget that he too can slot Health and even Rest with these IOs. Why gimp Aid Self to get these benefits?

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Option, B, which is why higher level IOs will 'trump' lower level ones almost all the time. Knockback protection seems to be the only example contrary to that, and that's only desirable to a small number of characters.

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I think I've covered this, above.

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I am not satisfied that being level 30/40+ dictates that, should I want these options I must rely on Wentworths simply because I am 40+.

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For the apparently 30 total recipes in Pool B, is that really so terrible?

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I'm sorry, but I'm going to try and head off a mediocre or bad implementation before it happens. "Not so bad" isn't good enough for me. Unless someone comes along and tells my why the limitation is a good idea I'm not happy with an implementation that not only has holes in it, but those holes impact the most active and loyal customers most.

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Again, I have to ask why does an extant level 40+ have to wait for these drops to drop, percolate through the "economy", and be found at Wentworths or the Black Truck? What game mechanic, balance guideline, or reasonable economy makes that approach (which I deem inherently unfair) a good implementation?

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Because the alternative in which people are awarded recipes retroactively will result in an immediate overabundance of Pool B recipes.

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If your position is based soley on countering people who want that solution then consider that there are other solutions that have been offered, such as attaching this pool to other activities, making sure that people exemplared into those activities can get lower level drops, etc. Not everyone is asking for retroactive reward, in no small part because there are clear implementation issues with how it could even be done.

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Everyone who is asking for retroactive drops based on souvenirs is asking for just that.

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Again, you seem to be arguing as if everyone is asking for that.

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I would surmise the +regen IO in Regenerative Tissue will be trumped by the +regen/+recovery IO in Numina's Convalesence, which conveniently opens up at level 30. Especially since the first set bonus for Numina's Convalesence is yet more +regen. I didn't mention the Chance of [X] procedures because I wouldn't put much faith in them unless you can stack several of the same kind. So really, what low level IOs are really going to be coveted by higher level characters?

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Unless the devs make these IOs mutually exclusive, there is no "trump". You are at your best if you slot them all.

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Because it's likely that you're going to need a good amount of specialized IOs to provide the same effect that the corresponding power would, and slotting those takes away from the effectiveness of the power you slot it into. There will be a balancing act in trying to shoehorn enough +recovery effects between IOs and sets to be able to avoid taking Stamina. And once you reach that point, you might find yourself lacking in damage output or some other valuable attribute because of it.

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What looks easier and less costly in terms of opportuinity cost to you?
[*] Slot entire (sub)sets of set IOs in given powers. Remember that many sets taken singularly provide less pre-bonus benefit in a given power slotted optimally with SOs, and much less benefit than a power slotted with HOs.[*] Cherry pick special IOs that take a single slot apiece and provide bulk benefit to the character.

I know which looks more optimal to me. And lets be fair here - this particular topic has a lot to do with optimization. Not everyone needs or wants to min/max, but what we're looking at is that the drop system appears to provide min/max opportinities to new characters who level up after I9 that are denied, say, to an extant level 40+. Note that I said the drop system. I am not satisfied that being level 30/40+ dictates that, should I want these options I must rely on Wentworths simply because I am 40+.

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Yes, knockback protection is something a Fiery Armor or Dark Armor character wants all the time. But that's a very specialized need. Fortunately, the possibility of getting that particular IO through trading and selling is higher, because all the SR, Regen, Invuln, Stone Armor, Ice Armor, Energy Armor and Ninjitsu melee characters who wind up with that recipe are not going to be interested in slotting them at all.

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Again, I have to ask why does an extant level 40+ have to wait for these drops to drop, percolate through the "economy", and be found at Wentworths or the Black Truck? What game mechanic, balance guideline, or reasonable economy makes that approach (which I deem inherently unfair) a good implementation?

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I'm not a fan of the exclusivity of Pool B, but neither do I think rewards should be handed to my higher level characters merely for the hard work of logging in.

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That's hyperbole and no one reasonable is asking for that. What is being asked for is equal drop-based opportunity invariant of what level your character happens to be whan I9 comes into play.

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The level 10-30 set bonuses seem more designed to fill holes characters have during low levels (lots of +recovery to help until Stamina comes along, Knockback protection until one can get Acrobatics, AoE Defense for /SR scrappers until they can get Evasion, etc.) The individual bonuses, like +7.5% ToHit, will become superfluous as one attains higher levels and completes multiple sets with +ToHit as a set bonus.

Ultimately, I think people are overstating the importance of low level IOs and sets to higher level characters.

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I don't know why you think people would not want these things in addition to or instead of the things you mention. More endurance? Why just take Stamina when you can add +recovery IOs to it? Hate taking Stamina? Replace it with IOs. Hate being "forced" to take Acrobatics on your Fire Tanker? Use Prot(KB) IOs.

These aren't things you just don't want any more because you're 30+ or 40+. They're things you want even more, because you know really feel the limitations of the fact that you only have so many more power picks to go, or can't squeeze any more out of the powers you do have because of limited slots.

These things aren't wants we outlevel, but the devs are saying we have to outlevel getting them as drops when "younger" characters have no such limitations.

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It's easier to get the same missions in CoV then it is in CoH for sharing completion. If you're not all getting the same stuff from a contact, until you start a story arc then you're not going to be able to do things that everyone can use the completion feature on. Also some story arcs (i've only run into this issue 2x myself) seem to give some of the missions in different order to some people, you can't use completion there either.

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Even in CoV, the contacts don't give all the arcs they offer in the same order. So above the levels where they offer more than a couple of arcs, you quickly get out of synch with others. If they offer any "one-off" missions, it's even worse, as sometimes they offer these before, between or after their SA offerings.

In short, I find cooperative missions pretty uncommon outside of holiday event missions and very low level characters who started together.

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I think whether we like it or not, they'll eventually institute some sort of per-trial/TF limit. *Some* TFs are probably just a little too quick to be allowed to do over and over again (think Croatoa).

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Possibly. I still think once a day is a problem. Think about the trials. Several are timed, enforcing a relatively short span. I don't see a problem with allowing them to be run back to back, though I've never done it myself (except when we failed - but that better not count!). The drop rates for really good IOs are not at all likely to be high. These deves are too conservative for that IMO.

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Here's another suggestion to prevent farming:

Limit Trials/TF awards to once per 24 hours similar to how the Recluse Strike Force functions. This would prevent people from farming these solo.

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Dude, what the hell.

Go screw up some other game.

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Screw over another game? Inventions aren't even live if they made it so that invention rewards were only given in TF/Trial once a day how would that be different where now they are given 0 times a day?

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Read your own quote. You didn't suggest that they limit drops to once a day. You said limit rewards to once a day.

And given the way it sounds like drop rate schedules work, I still think that's insane. You aren't guaranteed anything great every time through.

If I want to spend a weekend day and do 2-3 trials, I damn well want a reward for it. I don't need your BS screwing me out of options.

A limit, maybe. A limit of one a day is utter crap. Once an hour? Once every 90 mins? OK. Not once a damn day.

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Thanks to the Elite Boss change to missions, it's now fairly easy to solo a TF. First, gather a minimum-size team for the TF you want to do. Start the TF. Have everyone quit the team except for you and one other character. Have that one character other than you log off. Now you can run the TF solo with appropriate difficulty spawns. As long as one other character remains on the team (even logged off) the TF can be completed.

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Note that the rank of the end "boss" in Task/Strike forces never changes, no matter the difficulty setting or number of people on the team. The foe at the end of the Positron TF is always an elite boss. The foe at the end of Bastion's TF is always an AV.

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I think that most of us expressing concerns about our 50's not having access to story arcs are thinking about how to best min/max our favorite characters using the new IO system. But not allowing us access to the most rare parts, and therefore the most powerful complet sets, is a non-starter for most of us.

At least this is what I feel. And I'm guessing/assuming/reading between the lines that others feel the same way.

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I think that's the case.

And people need to be careful here. All we're asking for is the chance to do this through more-or-less normal play. While some might ask it to just be handed to us, I think the reasonable among us would be satisfied with a chance. A chance that doesn't require the use of auction houses.

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Here's another suggestion to prevent farming:

Limit Trials/TF awards to once per 24 hours similar to how the Recluse Strike Force functions. This would prevent people from farming these solo.

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Dude, what the hell.

Go screw up some other game.

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All they even need to do is nerf Shivan's debuffing abilities and vola it's fixed.

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Or make sure that you can't do an SF solo. I hate to suggest it, beause a few of them are such crap that it's really the best way to do them (I'm looking at you, Posi's TF). But I'd prefer that to having tools we can use in the rest of the game nerfed.

Mostly though, meh. I don't solo AVs - I solo EBs. Now a handful of EBs have turned around and handed my Shivan it's [censored] on a platter. Try throwing a Shivan at the Envoy of shadows without a ranged heal to keep it alive with. Longbow Ballista do a number on them too. But really a player + a Shivan is overkill for a lot of EBs. More than anything that speaks to the wild variation in the power of AV/EBs.

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ok, im confused by all the freaking out about story arcs...

The way i understand it, is that a lvl 20ish story arc, will drop a formula for a 20ish IO set. If you a 50, why do you even care about a 20ish IO? Shouldnt you be more concerned with trying to find one of the story arcs running on PI(theres a ton) and finishing one of those so you can get the 40+ formula??

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I understand why people don't get this, as its buried in all the other info and concerns, but I have posted this around 5 times so far.

There are basically unique, special enhancements that are not enhancements. They give you a new power for practical purposes. +12.5% Endurance Recovery. +10% Psionic DR. Knockback protection. So on and so forth. They just happen to be something you slot in, say, a heal power, or a defense power, but they work either full time, or as long as the power in question is toggled on.

And this function is not limited by the level at which you craft them (as I currently understand it).

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Instead we are looking into other options to get you the Pool B choice so level 50s don't feel gimped.

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While we have you around...

How does the whole level-capped thing work in terms of getting sets and singular, special IOs?

My understanding so far is that recipie drops are keyed to the level of the thing you "defeated". For mobs this is clear. But what about for things you've outleveled, like TFs you go exemplar for? Does a level 45 doing a level 30 TF get a level 45 recipie or a level 30 one? Do they get any recipie drops for mobs while exemplared?

If any of the above aren't such that the 45 can get recipies for level 10-39 stuff, can we get some explanation of why the recipies have level caps?

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Attacking the foe that's likely to fall more quickly is a legitimate tactic. I wouldn't apply it universally, but it's not a bad rule of thumb.

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But rules of thumb applied universally is a bad approach. Dark Servant is hardly ever going to kill anything. Its "attacks" actually are wasted by tossing them on a minion. I can deal with the minion far better than DS can.

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Having the AI attack the highest ranking foe in a group every time would also be problematic.

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Actually, I really have a hard time coming up with valid reasons that's true. I can contrive some, but most often this is exactly what I would want pets to do, even if it spelled certain doom for them. Why? Because the most high-ranking foe is the hardest one for me to deal with using other tools at my disposal. My characters can mez or kill minions, sometimes in large quantities, more effectively than they can a boss. I'd just as soon my pets tied up the boss while I took out the minions in every scenario I can imagine, with nearly any AT or pet.

Anyway, </hijack>

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Pet AI across the board is pretty bad and long due for some fixin.

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Here's an interesting example. I solo my Dark Miasma characters a lot. I use my pet to soak the "alpha strike" from bosses a lot. I summon him right on the boss.

Typcial spanws are a boss and one minion.

My pet invariably begins to mez and debuff the minion. Always. Every time. Without fail. My strategy ends up being to try non-damaging effects to keep the boss off my pet (his PBAoE effects at least draw the boss's initial aggro) until I can defeat the minion.

Yeah, I have a system that works given what the AI does, but why on earth is his AI like that? Attack the least scary foe first? Bah!

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I am somewhat curious, I have always felt that Dark Melee was the safest melee primary but also at the same time the weakest in terms of damage output. What does Dark Consumption add to the melee set and why is an end recovery power in the melee set to begin with in your opinion?

I realize you can only guess at what the original design conept was but what I am specificaly wondering is how you see Dark Consumption functioning with the set as a whole as it stands now after 8 issues of changes.

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I know this wasn't directed at me, but..

I see this as a side effect of Dark powersets in general being "utility" powersets. They are the swiss-army-knives of the sets, known for DoT damage and features that like normally lie outside the AT or primary/secondary role.

In conjunction with this, I do think that DM and DA were designed to be specifically complimentary. I suspect that DC was meant to offset the costs of Dark Regen. Of course, if true, this isn't a very good design, since it implies that DA isn't effective without an endurance recovery power in its paired primary. That may have been the case, since the devs did come along and reduce DA's costs.

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Tho the new changes are awesome, I miss the contacts page for CoH. Not that I can't find what I'm looking for, but the old page was a lot better when you don't know the lvl of the contact your looking for.

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Aw, man, I miss that overview page too. I really liked the old tabular format. I especially appreciated the description info about how the contact matrix actually worked.

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Keep up the great work!!

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Ditto.

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Amazing none of the devs played CounterStrike thought I'm not sure many people think of that one...

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I don't think anyone classifies CS as either the MM or RP in MMORPG. It's normally classified as an FPS.

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I wouldn't mind if they upped the damage and made it an actual AoE attack that, by the way, gives endurance.

Or is it supposed to be an end drain that, by the way, deals damage? It sucks either way.

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I'm convinced it's supposed to be the latter.

In either case, even if they made it do meaningful damage I'm not really interested in an AoE with a three minute base recharge. As long as it also recovers endurance it will likely never do big damage. So moderate damage at best on a 3 minute recharge? No thanks. I'd much rather it be primarily an end recovery power and actually do that well.

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Weren't we trying to lower Consume a little so it balances along with the other End Recharge powers? Especially due to the fact that that's basically all it does, no debuffs or anything.

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Yeah... I kinda mentioned that, especially in the post right above the one you quoted?

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Oooh, can we reduce the recharge time for Dark Consumtpion in the Dark Mastery APP for Defenders, too?

I mean, it's great and all, but the recharge is 4 minutes.

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By the time it recharges, I've forgotten I have it!

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You realize you actually made out like bandits there, right? The normal rule of thumb for epic power recharges is double standard and that one is 133% standard. (Normal DC recharge is 180s or 3 mins.)

Of course, if Consume was brought down (I'd be pretty happy with 90 or 120s), I would hope DC would come down also and the Defender EPP version should then come down proporionally.

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Thats what the entire community may get out of Consume Vs Energy Leach normalization.

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While that's never kind of result I want, that's not going to stop me from questioning when powers that perform similarly have radical imbalances in performance (though I understand there are mechanical differences in Consume and DC and the other drains. However, the net function of those other powers makes them superior in every way, and I don't see set-wide balance considerations suggesting Consume should underperform that much in its apparently primary function. (That doesn't mean they aren't there, but they'd have to be explained to me.)

I don't want my Brute Burn nerfed, but I've not been afraid to ask the question about Tanker Burn being so much longer to recharge. I'm not cool with balance by "these guys get shafted but I've got it good".

All that said, I will be pretty shocked if the response is a nerf to the other drain powers. They're pretty pervasive. It's not inconceivable, but damn if someone isn't asleep at the helm if something doled out as much as Power Sink and its cousins is considered overpowered.

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higher level enemies = less end drained. The last one is the most frustrating part for me.

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I believe that's true for all endurance drains.

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Castle told us this is not the case. Originally he thought so too, but came back with a correction.

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another weird agro thing happened in Dark Astoia last night, I had my Emp defender stealthed with ourr group waiting on another team to arive to take on Adamanster. Somehow one of our team agroed the monster. The next thing is ia am DIRECTLY being attacked by the monster, even though I wasn't near him and I was stealthed doing nothing else.

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Castle already explained this. Once your team has aggroed the mob, the mobs in question know about your whole team. Adamastor knew you were there and decided you looked tasty for some reason. But your stealth was completely out of the picture at that point.

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I always wondered if this wasn't the case, being in situations like a hidden Stalker who hadn't attacked and being pegged (ruining hide).

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Hide is an exception, barring ambushes. Let the brute go in first, everyone else drop their aoe's and such, and as a stalker you won't take aggro in the initial charge.

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Uh, no, that contradicts what I said. I've unqustionably been attacked by single-target, focused attacks before I took any action at all as a hidden Stalker on teams. Hide is, sadly, not an exception.

Edit: What you may have observerd is that I believe Stalkers are very low on the inherent "hate" heirarchy. Given a choice between a Stalker and most other ATs, all other things being equal, I think mobs would prioritize attacking the Stalker lower.

I conclude this based on experience with EBs and Shivans or other pets. When attacking with most ATs, I can peel the EBs attantion of a Shivan, or at least make the EB divide its attention between me and the pet. I have found this very hard to do with Stalkers, to the point that mobs focus on the Shivan more so than on me. (This is actually a bit of a problem, because a Shivan usually can't take that kind of attention very long.)