Tyger42

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Well..it's much better than before..but STOP TRYING TO STOP POWERLEVELERS! umm..please Don't get me wrong this is much better..but nobody really cares about powerlevelers..

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I don't recall anyone voting you spokesperson for everyone. Nor do I recall anyone putting out a survey. As a matter of fact, most of the comments I hear in-game regarding powerlevellers are negative about them. People -DO- care about powerlevellers, all your blatant fabricated "facts" aside.

In fact, these changes are being made BECAUSE OF complaints about powerlevellers. Every time the topic of PLing comes up, it creates contraversy. This alone should be enough to tell anyone that your "nobody cares about powerelevelling" tripe is a flat-out lie.

Frankly, powerlevelling is cheating. Advancing in a game with no risk or even effort is cheating.

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Pfah! I can run with a level two through Founder's Falls and not die!

Ya'll are just wimps.




-np

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Really? One would have to wonder what your secret is for surviving the first sniper that spots you....

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First off, the 5th Element will be going away

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The Council will be headquartered on Spriga Isle.

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This area just north of Talos Island

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Since the area is controlled by The Council, there will not be a trainer available

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The Council are allying themselves with alien beings, a race calling themselves the Kheldians.

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How many did you find?

wait...this wasn't a game?

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Don't forget the "Ancillary", also "largest free expansion ever"...Issue 1 was far bigger than this, and even Issue 2 was probably larger.

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I'd also point out calling Warshades "Nictus". Correct me if I'm wrong, but, while this may be technically accurate, aren't Warshades reformed Nictus? And the ones that actually call themselves Nictus are the ones that didn't reform?

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Thanks, States. This is a really hard delay for me to swallow, but at least it's still in the works. I hope the DA and Stone folks will hang in there for three more months to get the protection they've deserved since day 1.

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"Deserved"?!

*rolls his eyes and shakes his head*

Not saying it's not a needed boost, but "deserved"?

*just...walks away.*

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What does Statesman mean by "Council"?

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Replacement villain group for 5th column.

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So the game can be sold in Germany.

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Yeah! Nevermind the fact that several germans have posted that there's no such law as the one people keep touting that no nazi imagery can legally be used in games in Germany! (And nevermind the fact that the 5th Column didn't actually -HAVE- any Nazi imagery...) Nevermind the fact that States has said this was a plot twist planned since before release! (Oh, yeah, but Statesman is lying, despite the fact that there's no reason to do so and, in fact, more damage than good done by doing so)

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I don't expect an answer form States on this one.

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I do.

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Heheh. God, I love when the cynical whiners trip over their own feet like that.

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Concern = small tweak.

Dont' worry Ar/Dev blasters! (sorry....just had a chill go through my spine as I read that).

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Suggesting there's something wrong with AR/devs now days? I know one that still mows through herds like their nothing. He quit using smoke grenade until it was fixed and never missed it once.

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2. After analysis, Scrappers CAN NOT reach the same levels of resistance as a Tank. Regeneration, though, is a small concern

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Damnit to hell.

Why, why, why do you have to look into Regeneration?

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Because at level 40 I can stand toe to toe with a pair of level 43 Fake Nemesis bosses and never have to worry about dying no matter how long I stand there, perhaps?

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Not to mention they are probably using CoH employees to do it, meaning we pay for development time of a different game than the one we are playing.

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No, they're using Cryptic/NCSoft employees to develop it. Employees work for the company not the game. The same employees at Mythic who developed DAoC developed the expansions for that game as well.

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Fine, that doesn't change the point though.

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What was the point, exactly? *GASP!* Imagine that! They're using profits from one project to fund a new one! HOW COULD THEY! Nevermind that EVERY F***ING GAME DEV COMPANY OUT THERE DOES THIS.

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CoV is an obvious expansion to CoH.

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It's not a "true" expansion in that it can stand alone. It's more of a suppliment than an expansion. Either can work fine alone. This breaks the normal "definition" of an expansion.

That being said, I definately won't be happy if they charge for each individually.

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Except CoV isn't an add-on. It's an independant game. CoH is not required to play CoV. CoH and CoV will supposedly share servers but it will be (I expect) possible to play either all the way to 50 and never encounter a player-run character from the opposing side. All PvP content will be optional. Price-wise, I don't know if a seperate subscription is required or if both will be playable for the same $15 a month.

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Last statement from States on the issue was that the current plan was for the $15/month would cover one, the other, or both.

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That sort of thing is rampant in the computer game industry, where game designers put in cheats for npcs (letting npcs do things players cant) because writing decent tactial AI is too hard or too much work. Very common place, unfortunately.

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Writing an AI that can pose a serious challenge against human intelligence for a large scale computer game is, actually, impossible with current technology. It's not a matter of laziness. Those that can come the closest are employed *FAR* above the level of writing computer games. Seriously, a single one of these guys probably pulls in a year what the entire CoH dev team does...

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States,

Why is it being viewed as an "issue" to be "solved?"

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How are you NOT viewing it as an issue that needs to be solved?

They'd still be damage-dealers, just not as sick as they are. (Note sig, I know firsthand what I'm talking about) Besides, the current plan is to try to avoid actually nerfing damage anywhere. The boost in mob HPs should be enough to pad the effect... So you're not going to be able to take out swarms of +1 minions in a single alpha strike anymore. You'll still be doing more damage overall.

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3) made the Terra Volta trial easier several times

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You know, I'm not usually one to complain about this game, but if this is easier, how did you expect anyone to get it done originally?! Everything's fine up until the final mission, and even that's fine once you get to the core. Yes, surprisingly enough, the final stage is the easiest. It's the route to the core where you have to fight through packs with as many as *SIX BOSSES*, all of them anywhere from +2-4 levels HIGHER than the HIGHEST MEMBER OF THE TF... The group going in there has to be set up perfectly to even have a chance of getting through. Worse still is the fact that these hordes of bosses were tightly packed with another horde about 5 steps away from it.

The power plant had us pulling our hair out until we finally got to the core, then it was actually fun, even though we did fail on the last wave. What struck me as odd as the waves were ALL lower level than the packs of mobs throughout the rest of the building. Was this intentional?

The fight to the core wasn't fun, that's all there was to it. It was mind-numbingly tedious slowly trying to weed out a few from the packs at a time and failing multiple times causing full team wipes.

The major problem is the level spread. Having everything at least 2 higher than the highest member of the task force forces a tight level packing in the team, which makes it a pain in the butt for our SG to get together and do something like this as a SG. SKing makes this easier to accomplish, but we should be able to do something as a group without requiring us to leave so many out because they won't be able to help on the TF...

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I am level 47 and to get the badges I want for these rewards I have two choices: find a portal mission that contains these enemies and farm it over and over or run around the lower level areas causing havoc.

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Choice 3: Exemplar to an appropriate level Hero and help them get XP (and work off your debt) while you both get the badge. I know... it's just crazy enough to work.

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But that would require people to use logic and to be outgoing and willing to actually help other people out rather than obsessing with their own gains exclusively...

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Two things: you will slow down XP gain.

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XP will be boosted along with mob difficulty, the goal being to keep the levelling rate the same. Try reading more of his posts on the topic.

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If I am no more effective at level 50 against even cons than I was at lvl 1, why even level up?

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The point is being more effective at fighting level 50 mobs than you were at level 1.

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Icarus_Factor and numspha, I am only referring to this in the context of Drayvis' reference to extremely grey foes. Obviously high-con foes have huge relevance.

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*Scratches his head* When did I ever say jack s*** about extremely grey foes?

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Lvl 40 minions should not be similarly difficult as they were to you at level 1 otherwise this is just EQ in tights.

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Oh, please. There are tons of factos that make this different from EQ in tights. If that's the best argument you can come up with, you lose.
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IMHO minions should only pose a real threat to Heros in significan't numbers. There has to be a feeling of power in COH other than bottom feeding. I don't find fighting mobs -2 levels to me Heroic at all.


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But if the -2 mobs will be just as powerful as the even mobs are now, how is it more heroic to be fighting the even mobs now? I mean, the same challenge is there. Same risk. Same reward.

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Thing is, this isn't a matter of opinion. At level 20, you are more powerful than you were at level 1. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. You're choosing to be blind to the fact that you're taking on more powerful foes. You are creating a false illusion for yourself.

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And what you are absoulutely refusing to accept is that that relative level of power has no effect on the game and is not in any way related to anything we do to progress our position in the game - i.e. our level. We are not exposed to it. It does not enter into our game experience. Ergo we do not give a damn about it.

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So, you're saying you NEVER see or hear about high level mobs at level 1? And you NEVER see or hear about low level mobs at level 30+?

Relative power? You're trying to compare how powerful you are at level 30+ to how powerful you were at level 1. That's relative power. How do you guage your power? You look at the power of the foes you're fighting. For an accurate comparison, you have to compare to the SAME foes. The only "relative power" is you now vs you then. You're wanting to feel more powerful, but refusing to accept something that is solid proof that you ARE more powerful.

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Yet again, I ask: How does being able to take down a foe that would have OBLITERATED you at level 1 not feel more powerful? People aren't answering this.

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I answered this in my previous post.

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No, you didn't. Or was that statement that boiled down to "because I say so" supposed to qualify as an answer?

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Because they're STRONGER foes. They would have wiped you out a few levels earlier. What's so hard to grasp about this?

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You should seriously consider taking a step back to calm down. I am NOT required to agree with you. If you don't like the fact that I do not agree with you, you are not required to read my posts. Feel free to ignore me - I'm strongly considering ignoring you based on the attitute you are projecting.

To me, a white con minion is a white con minion is a white con minion. I could care absolutely zero that at level 20 I can obliterate a level one minion into little motes of dust. That means nothing to me because I now face new level 20 minions. I do not feel "more powerful". I gain nothing from obliterating lower level foes. My only effect on the game (which is basically on my character) comes from those foes who are my level (give or take). Thus, my "sense" of power comes from how many of those I can defeat at once.

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Thing is, this isn't a matter of opinion. At level 20, you are more powerful than you were at level 1. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. You're choosing to be blind to the fact that you're taking on more powerful foes. You are creating a false illusion for yourself.

Yet again, I ask: How does being able to take down a foe that would have OBLITERATED you at level 1 not feel more powerful? People aren't answering this. They're skating around the question. The closest thing I've gotten to an answer as to why they feel they need to take down MORE foes instead of more powerful ones is "It's cooler". That's not really an answer, that's just re-stating the perception I was asking for an explaination for.

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I like SheckyS' post about levels. He's right - mob con is an illusion.

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No, he's not right. Mob con is supposed to be a reflection of it's power.

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But mob quantity is not, at least not in the same way.

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.....you just gave reason to ignore mob con and go hunt higher numbers of lower level mobs to feel powerful. After all, con is just an illusion....

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Given that our goal is to defeat enemies there is no possible context for which it is not superior to defeat more at once.

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Except possibly the "out of character" concept that the game's not a challenge if you can wade through them like they're nothing and, thus, not as much fun.

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You are not required to agree or even accept this. But it is a fact that many people feel this way.

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It's also a fact that many people don't think Smoke Grenade is overpowered as it is on Live right now. Doesn't make them right.

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Now here's the kicker: at the pace I'm going, its going to to take me nearly 10 hours to get through this level solo streetsweeping. In my mind, this is already too slow

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Thing is, this is pretty fast for post mid-point levelling in an MMOG... This ain't Diablo.

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But the mobs you're fighting one year after day 1 are far more powerful than the mobs you were fighting on day 1.

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Says the level. And level only. Not the sheer number of mobs around the character.

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No, says the power of the mob's attacks and durability. The sheer number of mobs has nothing to do with the individual mob's power.

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Go back and fight the mobs you were fighting on day 1, and you can wade through them like they were nothing. Why? Because YOU ARE MORE POWERFUL.

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Yeah - WAY more powerful. At level 35, level 1 hellions fall over if I sneeze at them. That's not the case with even con mobs, and I don't see what's wrong with being able to take on a greater number of same level mobs - makes the fight more "dynamic" imho.

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Then go take on mobs that are a couple levels under you. I don't see why you think the mobs have to be even con if you want to take on MORE of them as you level.

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I don't get why being able to take down hugely powerful mobs compared to what you were fighting when you started out isn't enough to make you feel more powerful. Why does taking out 10 mobs make you feel more powerful than taking down 2 that are each 5 times as powerful as any single one of the previous 10?

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Cause it's cooler?

Maybe only psychology is at work here - anything that has a number (level) lower than your own is by definition "weaker". Anything with a higher number is by definition "stronger". Doesn't really matter whether it's actually a true "weaker"/"stronger" or not - the perception is what makes the difference.

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Then the perception needs to change. If it's stronger, it's stronger. The perception is where the problem is, not in the proposed change.

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What's so hard to grasp about this?

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Drayvis,

Try it from this angle. Remove levels from it entirely...

Current system:
On day 1 I was able combat and defeat 3 even con mobs. 1 year after release date I am able to combat 10 even con mobs.

Proposed system:
On day 1 I was able combat and defeat 3 even con mobs. 1 year after release date I am still only able to combat 3 even con mobs.

I understand your point too, but just trying to help you understand the other side of the argument.

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But the mobs you're fighting one year after day 1 are far more powerful than the mobs you were fighting on day 1. Go back and fight the mobs you were fighting on day 1, and you can wade through them like they were nothing. Why? Because YOU ARE MORE POWERFUL. You see, you CAN'T take levels out of the equasion. Taking the levels out makes the equasion totally invalid in referrence to the game. It changes the equasion completely.

I don't get why being able to take down hugely powerful mobs compared to what you were fighting when you started out isn't enough to make you feel more powerful. Why does taking out 10 mobs make you feel more powerful than taking down 3 that are each 4 times as powerful as any single one of the previous 10?

Why doesn't being able to take down 3 mobs with no problem one year after release that any single one of would have floored you in one shot on day 1 make you feel more powerful than you were on day 1?

But it's not the exact same play experience after 35 levels. I wasn't fighting Rikti and Crey snipers and Nemesis 35 levels ago. I couldn't regen back from 1/4 health by just standing there a few seconds 35 levels ago. I couldn't walk the streets of Founder's Falls without getting splattered 35 levels ago. I'm fighting more difficult foes than I could have hoped to have even gotten close to 35 levels ago.