TwoHeadedBoy

I thought about taking Dwarf on my last human build for the Kinetic Combat mules, but then ended up taking boxing and kick instead, since I wanted Weave anyways.

I've invested quite a lot in my Warshade, but all the influence in the world wouldn't buy me viable mez protection. If you're dealing in volume (as most Warshades do) Dwarf alone will not always be enough, though the fact that the status protection will be kicking in as soon as the animation starts with i21 changes will be a big help... I sure wouldn't want to sit around trying to kill every mezzer in a group of carnies in Dwarf Form.

Additionally, have you seen Microcosm's Kheldian Inspiration Macro's? That can be a big help if you don't want to use Clarion.

No, it doesn't. It shows that one player is able to do something... Even the most dedicated PB Players, AIB included, acknowledge the dire need PB's have for a buff. These Light Form changes are probably the silliest thing to have a problem with, and I can't for the life of me understand why you don't think perma LF across forms is worth having to stand still for a second.
His build can be found here.

My friend AIB's Tri Form Peacebringer, Serene Servant, does incredible things on live already. I'm not sure as to the exact (+/-) setting that he's able to handle on his own, but I want to say it's up to 53x8 depending on the enemy group. Granted, that shouldn't be considered a standard at all in my opinion but more of an anomaly. These changes we'll be seeing with issue 21 should definitely help doing amazing things with Peacebringers be more common, ("common") but that's not to say I think that an increased overall potential is enough to be gap closing, in terms of their relative performance to Warshades. Survivability will be more consistent (barring psi damage... I refuse to deem the crash a threat) but will be severely lacking in damage (though they can cap HP in Human Form, which Warshades can't do.)

*points at your quote of quote, then points back to my post*

edit:

(This is needed, for the record...)

How dare I respond to you promptly and refute everything you say in 4 sentences. ur so clever!!!~~~

I'm on a personal crusade because I feel that damage taken should be relevant to character survivability... Right.

It's such a personal crusade, that my primary example throughout 90% of my argument has been Tanks, an AT that I have never gotten past level 12. Very self-absorbed of me...
I have no problems with challenges either... See the last two pages of this thread that only happened because I brought up the concept of challenges that exist in normal content without using mechanics that cheat (Which subsequently got derailed because someone didn't like the enemy group I used in my example.)

*hides pitchfork for conversation's sake*

Are you not aware of The MFing Warshade?

If ever there were a skilled character to play...

Hrm, that's another way to look at it and honestly a train of thought I could get behind to a degree. If level shifts were taken into account (as in the relative level of character VS. NPC enemy level) on top of individual AT/Set/Build survivability as they function in normal content, you wouldn't hear any complaints from me.

I really hate that you're still talking about this, I feel like I made it pretty clear in my last post that your perception of difficult enemies is ultimately just that: A matter of perception.

To clarify, earlier today I ran my survivor, who is a Tri Form Warshade, through two different missions. One was +4x8 PPD and the other was +4x8 Arachnos. My build is one with Perma Eclipse (Capped resistances at 85%, to all damage, throughout both exercises) and features 21% s/l defense and 16.5% melee defense. The PPD were dealt with on Cruise Control. I don't think I struggled a single time throughout the whole mission... I killed or mezzed them all before the defense debuffs could become an issue.

The Arachnos, on the other hand, once again managed to not only stack enough mez to break through my t4 Clarion, but also sapped my endurance to boot. I was rendered helpless and stunned/etc, only to be defeated through my rezzing and indulgent usage of inspirations.

Bottom line: For my survivor, Arachnos are much tougher to handle than PPD. That may not match your experience, and that's fine. I'll also let you know that this same build has soloed +4x8 Malta, with more difficulty than PPD, but still cannot manage the same on Arachnos.

I feel like you keep relaying personal build and team experience as if it were fact, but yet again, you continue to go off topic.
I never said it was a matter of "challenge." I don't find Nova Fist challenging... I just disagree with the principle of the power. The idea that anything exists that does indiscriminate damage regardless of build survivability just doesn't sit well with me...

That doesn't mean I'm unwilling to do trials, or that I don't do them regularly. It just means that I don't like the mechanic.

(Skipping part of your post because I don't think your carnie rant can even be worded into relevance.)

This, once again, is a matter of perception. You say why you think it's unfair, and then equate it to being how the player base as a whole feels. I have never advocated the pulses being removed from the Keyes trial, I just happen to be of the opinion that all damage in Incarnate trials should be typed and have a position. If Anti Matter's damage did say, part toxic and part energy damage, it would still be devastating to many sets while others could potentially deal with it. This is the beauty of having these powersets in the first place. Different sets are meant to be more survivable in certain content.

And this is what I call a "back in the day we used to have to walk uphill to work both ways in the snow" post. You simply stated that you don't think I'm making a point, whilst not stating what it is I've said that you disagree with or find irrelevant, even though I spent a good part of my last posts detailing how my points were brought up due to conversational wanderings and I think I made it pretty friggin' clear exactly how all of my posts related to my original point.


I invested in my blaster so that he could maximize his damage while retaining *decent* survivability in most content. The same can be said for my Scrapper, though with more of the latter. I spent a good amount of inf. on both builds.

However, my Warshade is my ultimate survivor. Plainly put, I do not think it's fair at all for him to be dealt the exact same amount of damage from any attack in the game as my blaster, who sits at 32.5% s/l/e/n/r defense with no resistances to speak of. My Warshade has died/been just as injured from the exact same attacks as my blaster with hardcapped 85% Resistances to all damage, and beyond softcapped defenses through Vengeance and team buffs to boot.

We have build/AT strengths for a reason, and while I'm not saying that "ZoMgz trialz R 2 Hard" or that I even plan to boycott them (because neither is the case) I still think that this balance should not be something that can be compromised by single rule-breaking attacks.

The trouble the OP was having was with the Honoree mission, I think.

I've told you this before, but I haven't started to IO out my Peacebringer yet (waiting for i21.) He's currently on a tri-form SO build, and he's still my second favorite character to play. I never said you can't do anything, I just didn't think it would be possible to solo the Honoree mission without one, really, except maybe with excessive inspiration usage. Temp powers could work too.
Heh, Incarnate content already bypasses the entire concept of building for survivability... But I already started a thread about that.


And for the record Bill, I still like you (but I do think you should stop spitting venom at Microcosm )

That's fair enough, I will make a point to be more mindful of that in the future.
Well part of that is a bit of a different discussion, because I am a big proponent of using an IO build on anything you plan to play extensively. I know you disagree, but this really isn't the place for that discussion.

My experience was that the task the OP was having trouble with was going to be pretty rough. If you read the rest of my post, I also suggested devouring inspirations, going in, and taking one of the EB's out before they wear off.
Yes, supposedly balanced makes sense... But I find that especially when it comes to difficult content, if you want to be able to do it by yourself efficiently, IO's make a world of difference.
Well that's all well and good, if you prefer not to use IO's on your builds I don't think anyone here is going to tell you that you're doing it wrong or your builds suck.. But a lot of people also like using IO's. They make things smoother, they help realize a character's full potential. If that's not how you feel, then more power to you, but that doesn't mean you should expect everyone else to feel the same way.

Cheating in a sense that they use autohit debuffs? That's hardly equivalent to indiscriminately taking an equal amount of health from all characters. Those defense debuffs are still going to scale appropriately because different sets/builds/etc have different starting defense.
Umm, no I didn't. My position on the topic from the start was that "special" incarnate damage was unfair and it negated the concept of survivability. Then, people said things along the lines of "it needs to work that way in order for it to provide a challenge" to which i responded that normal content is perfectly capable of providing a challenge to even the best builds without using these mechanics.

It's not all dependent on luck, a lot of it is also based on strategy and proper timing. The reason why I brought up soloing is because people were saying things like "oh, some people are invincible anyways, there is no challenge in the game for them if these special Incarnate mechanics aren't used." I was simply using this point to illustrate that this is not the case at all.
The opposite has been my experience. I find that if I'm playing my main "survivor," he tends to be the only one left on the team standing when playing with the majority of the player base he teams with. Of course, there are other characters who are capable of surviving these situations and contributing equally, but even with two or three durable characters things like Longbow and Arachnos are still a challenge.

Maybe I have a problem with both? This entire point you're trying to make is based 100% on perspective and you're trying to push it off like it's a standard. On my Warshade, I have more trouble with Arachnos than anything else. They stack so much mez it's even cut through my tier 4 Clarion. They have gotten my defenses down to the negative numbers and then sucked out all my endurance to boot... That combination is really what kills me. I've soloed +4x8 Longbow and Malta with quite a bit of difficulty, but Arachnos is a challenge I've yet to overcome. The Longbow don't seem to mess with my Endurance and Malta don't seem to mess with my defense to the same extent in both departments. Arachnos also seem to have the most devastating mez.
Got it, you don't think Arachnos are a good example of a challenging enemy group... But that does nothing to disprove my ultimate point that there is plenty of challenge in the game that doesn't use unfair super mechanics in order to screw everyone over "equally." I don't know why you're so hung up on not liking my example... At this point, it's just giving the impression that proving that Arachnos aren't challenging is the only leg you have left to stand on in your attempt to discredit my opinions.

A lot of what you're referring to are jokes made by people who also play Peacebringers, myself for instance. It sort of seems like you take it to heart a bit too much, but that's just my opinion.
Yeah, that was me. Notice that I didn't make the joke until after the OP was already linked to a helpful guide. One that, I think, you wrote.

And it might have been pretty obvious that I didn't mean anything malicious with it by anyone who glanced an inch down their monitor and noticed the only other character of mine who is in my signature besides my Warshade. What's that? A Peacebringer?
The rest of the forum already has a negative opinion of Peacebringers. I have actually suggested to more than one person in the last few weeks who was looking for a new character to play on the AT board that they make a Peacebringer. I listed Warshades and Peacebringers as my top two favorite AT's on that board too, and when someone in the beta thread implied that Kheldians weren't worth the money they're going to cost free players, I defended both Archetypes.
Er, I would probably have trouble with the Incarnate Arc on my Warshade if he used an SO build too (But I'm not sure, he's been IO'd since before he did that arc.) SO's are just not the best way to get anything to perform optimally. Based on my experience having tried to do that mission on an SO'd Peacebringer, it didn't seem like something that was viable to accomplish.

If you managed to do it, that's really awesome and I'm glad that you relayed that experience here, but that doesn't mean that people who didn't have that same experience aren't allowed to relay that, too.

First of all, you've done nothing so far but to further my point that there are many enemy groups in normal content who can pose a threat to players without cheating. Based on this quote, you only disagree with my using Arachnos as a prime example..


However, I can entertain that. Arachnos not only debuff defense... They also stack layers of Mez (which can even break through t4 Clarion status Protection... Trust me I know) AND sap your endurance to boot. I'm assuming your "one debuff" is the defense debuff that they are capable of stacking enough on 54x8 to bring a softcapped character's defenses down to next-to-nothing.
lolk.

Let me rephrase, then: Do either of you believe that there are characters who can farm extremely challenging enemies such as Arachnos, Policebringers, and the others that you so graciously provided my point with and not feel challenged?

These things were all brought up to prove the point I was trying to make: The game is completely capable of offering challenges to even the best built characters without breaking the player conceived concepts of survivability.

I dunno... Are you talking first place or grand prize?

Are you seriously going to complain about not being able to move for a few seconds in exchange for the ability to PERMA LIGHTFORM? If so... I suggest you just get out right now.


edit: Even if a player couldn't afford to Perma LF, it's still going to be up a hell of a lot more often than it was before.

New players don't have the option to Perma Eclipse either. That's a retarded argument. By your standards, Perma Phantom Army isn't a big deal either, because it actually takes time and inf. to achieve.... Right.....

:| If you can show me a single character that can farm 54x8 Arachnos like it's nothing, I will never disagree with you when you follow me around the forums and argue with me again.

It's working fine for me... I'm actually watching Arrested Development as I type this.

Yep, I soloed Trapdoor without any pets at all faster than my Peacebringer could hit buildup.