Turgenev

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* "U R HAWT, give me ur MYSPACE name. I want b ur bf."

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Hey, that was snagged offa some of the AP wallflowers. Someone here is now famous.

(And the quote two items below this one? Disco.)

Base Repricing
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?

T: It will justify a rebuild of my group's primary bases, both red and blue side. I'll do redside first, as I've let that lay fallow in expectation of Issue 13 base rehashes. While not as extravagant and revolutionary as I'd hoped it to be, the price changes justify the extra work because prestige for my bases is always a premium. Our group is small, all things considered, so it's work to keep the rent up for a base that's not cramped yet cost efficient.

2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?

T: Yes for both bases. The cost differential for us is about an 80% value change, so it's completely worth the time to rebuild. It will come in phases, with a coalition SG setup for temp transportation until the main base is ready (blueside).

3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?

T: Probably into Q2 of 2009. I DO work for a living.

4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?

T: It'd be REALLY lovely if the value adjustments would just trickle down to the players. I understand how that might not be feasible. Maybe a compromise of a 5M prestige gift, or some sort of similar package? For smaller groups like mine, it'd matter more.

5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?

T: Repricing doesn't really affect me short term: I can resize the plot immediately and cruise as-is with minimal rent until I'm ready to make the change. Long-term, it'll justify a total revamp of our base. Not a bad thing, though, as more options will be available to us in the long run.

Base Salvage
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?

T: This is a large negative for us. Our workflow for years has been "Invention Salvage is for personal IO usage, base salvage is for the group". Due to that ethic, there's always been a steady supply of base salvage for component creation. By shifting the focus to Invention Salvage, GREED now becomes an issue, particularly with our lower-grade memberships. Coupled with the lack of granularity in controlling rank access per bin, it [censored]'s our dynamic for "share for the group, take what you need, build for the base". The various recipe options for newly crafted items doesn't make that better; it just makes it more confusing. This was a dynamic that NO ONE I'VE SPOKEN TO feels was necessary in ANY degree. It's "change for change's sakes".

2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?

T: I don't see a positive to this on the player side. For NCSoft, it could mean less overhead on the market as more obscure salvage items are eventually drained from the catalog. That doesn't make it better for the playerbase, however.

If you REALLY wanted to homogenize things but keep it easier for the base managers, keep two forms of drops: Invention Salvage, and Brainstorm Salvage. One's used for IO purposes, the other for base crafting. Honestly, however, I LIKED getting themed salvage drops for certain creatures, because it made sense in the realm of the game fiction. But I'd prefer this over having to use IO salvage for base crafting.

3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?

T: I have no idea. This has soured a lot of SG mates' views of how base editing should work. I just hope that I can get my planned changes done before the well runs dry. Either THAT, or I burn personal INF to craft for the group. Again, the focus has shifted from the communal weal to individual investment.

4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?

T: The market's going to be an ugly thing to work with as people try to corner various items in the first months. We'll also have to deal with personal greed now in yielding what's required for base edits, vs. what benefits the player. I foresee tempers rising from it, at least with my SG populace. I suppose I could kick the greedier members, or institute a tithing system where each member must donate one rare salvage to the group, and TRUST that I won't use it to whet out my own purple sets...

5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?

T: The utter absence of granular controls per-bin for rank access makes this change REALLY problematic. I'd rather see better bin controls first, and THEN see the Invention Salvage drops take a greater role in base building. This is simply backwards logic.

Additional notes: I really like the base cost changes. I really hate the loss of an otherwise functioning base-centric system of resources. I never bought the "it confuses me" argument with the drop. I mean, hello. After the first time, wouldn't you have gotten it?

Nice necro, Robo. It made me chuckle briefly.

Since you asked: IRON Phoenix's Rec Room and bar.

The bar, close-up.

The Rec Room + Bar, wide shot

The whole base slideshow.

I smell Corinthian leather.

Looks good so far, LH, grats to everyone who's working on it. Now, how about some info on that ATI/Palit Costume contest...

*first post after redname, w00t*

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Sorry, I missed that. It could go in the Bio tab...

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Or a new tab entirely... "Secret Identity" (or just "Identity" for short), perhaps?

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This idea's been tossed around before: Expanding the "Info" window for players to include more peripheral info on their character beyond powers and bio. I think the "identity" tab (or profile, or working out the Bio tab more, etc) is a good avenue of pursuit for the Day Jobs data.

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Also, after reading most of this thread, this is my impression of what badges mean to people:

"My badge count has to be higher than yours and it has to be higher now."

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You should probably read it again. If that's what you came away with from reading, you've missed a lot of quality arguments, both for and against the badge inclusion and requirements.

Read my suggestion in my sig, for starters. It's not the only argument out there, but it's the one I favor because it can be done immediately and without consequence to players who want all the accolades and day job buff opportunities.

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What could the devs do that would allow those collectors to collect Day Jobs, but still make you not feel you needed them all to complete your badge collection?


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I have a method that I believe satisfies most, if not all of the complaints, while retaining the system flexibility, in my signature as a hyperlink. It uses existing methods for badge representation to keep Day Jobs to "one" badge entry, while allowing people who want to change their jobs to be able to do so within the current confines of the rules.

I'd be interested in seeing this idea gain more traction. Quite a few readers have commented they like the idea, so I'm hopeful a similar response can be said of the Devs in community suggestions, especially at this period of time.

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Personally I just think the developers, like a good portion of the people responding here, simply do not understand people who like collecting badges.

Or there is a subset of badge collectors who don't understand the intent of the system and have unrealistic expectations that will never be met.

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I don't think any of the modification proposals are unrealistic, nor do I believe, at this juncture, that they'll "never" be met. THIS is the time to discuss the system, both for and against, not after its implementation.

Hero: It's not about quicker and easier. Some of us actually think the implementation is flawed, while the concept is fair. For instance: So thematically, why should one hero have twenty five day jobs?

Read the link in my sig for my argument. Tired of arguing in circles, the link thing was the best decision I made in this "discussion".

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but i still think 30 days per badge is ALOT of time logged off to earn something

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Do you play while sleeping? Remember this 30 Days can be non-consecutive time offline. That means 720 hours offline time to earn the badge. Assuming 8 hours sleeping and 8 hours away from your PC while at work or school, that would mean 45 days on average to earn a badge.

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The problem is that they want the badges quicker because they are impatient.

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You've completely, utterly, staggeringly, amazingly, and stupendously missed the point.

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Ok, explain to me how I missed the point. You said you think 30 days it too long to earn somethin which tells me you want them quicker. It is pretty simple.

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Explain to me how one toon can have twenty or thirty day jobs. (Trizz, do NOT post that youtube here!)

Explain to me how it fits into the current badge design to reward passivity. (And we know about AFK farms, we know about vet rewards, and we think there's a better way for THAT too.)

Explain to me how changing the Day Job reward to a single badge, instead of 20+, is a bad thing.

I threw in the "30 days is really long" because, well, it is, but the above are the crux of my arguments. I can live with the 30 days IF the other items are addressed.

It's just that simple.

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but i still think 30 days per badge is ALOT of time logged off to earn something

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Do you play while sleeping? Remember this 30 Days can be non-consecutive time offline. That means 720 hours offline time to earn the badge. Assuming 8 hours sleeping and 8 hours away from your PC while at work or school, that would mean 45 days on average to earn a badge.

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The problem is that they want the badges quicker because they are impatient.

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You've completely, utterly, staggeringly, amazingly, and stupendously missed the point.

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jeeeez 30 freakin days?? screw that, not even gonna touch the day job thing.

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One can tell that the devs are really going to need to stress that whole non-consecutive part.

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Exactly. I think this is the part people are missing. It is accumulated time, not consecutive.

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I should macro this response...

No, we get that it's not consecutive, it was in the original article.

Read the link in my sig for my POV, CodeJ. It's got nothing to do with "getting more badges".

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The Badge Hound's lament that they need to get every badge should be vigorously ignored by the development team, for, in the end, it's a demand that the devs do not put in so much content that they can't do it all. In the end, it's a brake on the development of the game. It's the equivalent of demanding an amusement park that's not so large that they can't go on every ride in a single day.

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Zomb, I like you generally.

However, today, not so much.

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Quit personalizing the issue. You don't have to hate people you disagree with.



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Yeah, I'm a badge hound. Yeah, I'm a vocal opponent of the proposed Day Jobs system. What YOU'RE not hearing (or accepting), however, is the reason WHY.

Here it is. Get ready. Put on your Guide Man cap so you get a grasp.

"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."

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For *you*. It's great fun for *me.*




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I'll tell you this right now: If this system went live, I'd get the badge before anyone here. Why? Cuz you're right: I'm a badger. Big freakin' deal. I'd do it at 10 days, 15, and gods forbid, 30.

That doesn't make it fun. That doesn't make it thematically sensible. That doesn't take away from the fact that the badge recording times are REALLY FRICKIN' OUT THERE.

Rewards for being logged out of a toon isn't "content". But that's what you're supporting, while turning a blind eye to the valid (and, I hope, equally constructive) complaints from the segment of the populace that knows WTH badges take to earn the MOST.

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I reject your implication that badge hounds have more expertise in game design simply because this mini-game involves badges. Would an alcoholic be necessarily the best wine connoisseur in the world?




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A reward for doing nothing is not a badge. You're right: Neither is Empath. Neither is Immortal. Neither are the vet badges. If I had my way, I'd see THEM removed from the badge system too.

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If you can see why Empath is a broken badge, then a rational person would ignore it. If you can see why the badges associated with Day Jobs are not like the other badges, then a rational person would ignore them. If you're claiming you have the inability to simply ignore it, then you are admitting you have a problem and are in the same company with the one who admits they have an OCD.



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But SINCE we're in a period where we DO have the opportunity to add constructively to the discussion BEFORE The system is implemented, as a caring player it's my right and responsibility to present these arguments to the populace, and to the Developers. THAT's why this is a forum, and not a bulletin page where we can't participate.

Something that people will shoot back to me is that, whenever someone complains about wanting the Vet Badge Rewards earlier on the badges forum, my single word answer is "Cope." That's because the system's already set.

Here, we enjoy the ability to give our two cents to other players, and the Developers, in order to make the game BETTER. By encouraging people to "vigorously ignore those people", instead of rising to the discussion and OFFERING input or compromise, you do NOTHING to add to the benefit of the readers.

Zombie, NEVER encourage the populace to ignore each other. Because at the end of the day, all that encourages is ignorance.

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Reread please. I said that the *lament* should be ignored, not the hounds. The lament is a demand that all badges should be obtainable on one toon. And that lament is a straitjacket to development of content *and minigames* such as badging. It is that straitjacketing of game development that should soundly be ignored.

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Show me this lament of not being able to get every badge that you're telling everyone to ignore. AFAIK, it's all been primarily "not fun", "ridiculously long, should be shorter", and "what's with all the dayjobs, that makes no sense".

Re: Alcoholism comparison. Your calling a badger an alcoholic is one viewpoint. From ours, I think we'd call ourselves the wine conoisseurs. You can be one without being the other. From the opinions we've provided so far, I'd say we're the latter.

Re: Lumping me with OCD: At which point did you cease to take this personally? So far, being called an alcoholic and OCD misfit instead of matching a rational discussion is more "Internet Argument" tactics than I'd expect here.

Maybe I shoulda quoted the whole post. I took umbrage to your lumping all dissenting opinion to the Day Jobs proposal as being the product of hyped up badgeheads who don't typify your definition of the "regular player", and as such should be ignored. That's how you presented it, that's what I responded to.

Participate, don't shut out. Unless you've got a redname, you lack authority.

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I find it funny that people that log their characters in and do nothing to get certain badges are complaining about badges where they have to do half the work to do nothing to get them. People will truly complain about anything.

And what is it with people wanting to be the first to have all the badges or being so glad that they have more than someone else? Who gives a crap? The only one cares is you. I wish people would understand that the only competition between players in MMO games is in PvP.

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Whatcha gonna do, CodeJ, tell me to cope?

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"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."


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For you. For a casual player with a lot of alts, having a surprise waiting for them when they log back into a character they haven't used for a while is a nice start to a gaming session.

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So make it something else. It's not a badge. It's charity.

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The Badge Hound's lament that they need to get every badge should be vigorously ignored by the development team, for, in the end, it's a demand that the devs do not put in so much content that they can't do it all. In the end, it's a brake on the development of the game. It's the equivalent of demanding an amusement park that's not so large that they can't go on every ride in a single day.

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Zomb, I like you generally.

However, today, not so much.

Yeah, I'm a badge hound. Yeah, I'm a vocal opponent of the proposed Day Jobs system. What YOU'RE not hearing (or accepting), however, is the reason WHY.

Here it is. Get ready. Put on your Guide Man cap so you get a grasp.

"Getting a badge for doing nothing isn't fun."

I'll tell you this right now: If this system went live, I'd get the badge before anyone here. Why? Cuz you're right: I'm a badger. Big freakin' deal. I'd do it at 10 days, 15, and gods forbid, 30.

That doesn't make it fun. That doesn't make it thematically sensible. That doesn't take away from the fact that the badge recording times are REALLY FRICKIN' OUT THERE.

Rewards for being logged out of a toon isn't "content". But that's what you're supporting, while turning a blind eye to the valid (and, I hope, equally constructive) complaints from the segment of the populace that knows WTH badges take to earn the MOST.

A reward for doing nothing is not a badge. You're right: Neither is Empath. Neither is Immortal. Neither are the vet badges. If I had my way, I'd see THEM removed from the badge system too.

But SINCE we're in a period where we DO have the opportunity to add constructively to the discussion BEFORE The system is implemented, as a caring player it's my right and responsibility to present these arguments to the populace, and to the Developers. THAT's why this is a forum, and not a bulletin page where we can't participate.

Something that people will shoot back to me is that, whenever someone complains about wanting the Vet Badge Rewards earlier on the badges forum, my single word answer is "Cope." That's because the system's already set.

Here, we enjoy the ability to give our two cents to other players, and the Developers, in order to make the game BETTER. By encouraging people to "vigorously ignore those people", instead of rising to the discussion and OFFERING input or compromise, you do NOTHING to add to the benefit of the readers.

Zombie, NEVER encourage the populace to ignore each other. Because at the end of the day, all that encourages is ignorance.

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If anything, we need more unique badges that require substantial time and skill investments.

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Therein lies the solution.

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That may include badges you aren't skilled enough to earn. Is it still OK?

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::chuckle:: For me, that includes the Skiing badges.

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Including the newer epic ski badges for this year's event. And yes, if I failed at that, I'd cry like a mewling pup. But I'd do it again until I beat it. It's an achievement.

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Here's my question. Does my hero or villain stay in my day job location and wander around working his little heart out while I'm away? Meaning can I log in as an alt go to the hospital or something and see my other hero doing his day job? I think this would be pretty sweet but there have to be some technical limitations to allowing this such as overcrowding/lag.

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HAH! A constructive idea! We must demolish it now!

Seriously: I think this is a nifty thing to request. Maybe not for I13's release, but it would be awesome to see the NPCs in a hospital, let's say, show the face models of anyone who's logged out at that flagged location. Click on 'em, and they respond, "What? It's a living."

XD

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I'm confused....was that at me? It's my birthday (as you can see from the cake), but I didn't say that....

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He was referring to Venture, with whom you appear to share a birthday. He's been particularly virulent and pompous in his replies. He'll prolly make my ignore list too by the end of the day. I'd prolly do well in avoiding his home server too, if this is any indication of what to find there. :P

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Actually, I have one question....for villain: there is a thief one for logging out in a vault...other than mayhems or a few other missions, how do you log out inside a vault? Seems like a hard one to get 30 days of.

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I'd assume this referred to the Vault Reserve.

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This is totally off track. I doubt anyone but the poeple forum-jousting are even reading this anymore. Venture is just baiting and antagonizing the Collecter guys with OCD, and they are bickering back. I was hoping to see some sort of redname response to the opinions of the forumites, but 40 pages of personal arguments isnt going to garner any official response. Cut it out guys.

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Nature of the beast, unfortunately.

However, it's in discussions like this where valuable information is found: 1.) There's significant concern from a segment of the community; 2.) It's not a deal breaker, and can be modified.

The trick is to add constructively to the discussion. Some are less capable than others in that regard.

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So does this mean they should stop adding badges entirely just so you can reach your goal?

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No, but I think that they should add badges more sensibly than "if you stay logged out for X seconds, you get a badge! Gnaah! Toothpaste yum!"

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It should take time to earn those. I worked three years at a garage, five years doing retail, and 7 years at my current Journalism/PR gig. I consider myself able to slip back into those prior roles without trouble. Your character shouldn't need to forget the skills learned in his prior career, but it should take some time to earn those skills.

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You shouldn't have to. But you have one day job. Does your business card say "Garage Monkey / Register Monkey / Ambulance Chaser Journalist?" No: It says "Journalist". You have ONE day job, not many.

Omitting the plethora of badges would NOT impact your ability to invest time in those other skills. Behind-scenes tracking doesn't require badge markers. So you CAN work on those other skills, or show that you HAVE worked on those other skills and can acquire the accolades associated with them, without having to suddenly change your career for it.

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And you can only wear one badge at a time.

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Title does not equal day job.

Unless you're saying "Slayer of Madness" is a profession. In which case, you MUST have been in retail.

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It should take time to earn those. I worked three years at a garage, five years doing retail, and 7 years at my current Journalism/PR gig. I consider myself able to slip back into those prior roles without trouble. Your character shouldn't need to forget the skills learned in his prior career, but it should take some time to earn those skills.

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You shouldn't have to. But you have one day job. Does your business card say "Garage Monkey / Register Monkey / Ambulance Chaser Journalist?" No: It says "Journalist". You have ONE day job, not many.

Omitting the plethora of badges would NOT impact your ability to invest time in those other skills. Behind-scenes tracking doesn't require badge markers. So you CAN work on those other skills, or show that you HAVE worked on those other skills and can acquire the accolades associated with them, without having to suddenly change your career for it.