Tricia

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I am excited at the base prospects for new SGs and players; I hope that Veteran SGs with bases built over years and now static are not being penalized or have to rebuild things. We have 4 very large bases, and 4+ medium ones. Most we are completely content with....I am still searching for what, if anything, happens to existing bases.....

[/ QUOTE ]They remain exactly the same, and get the prestige difference between old and new costs refunded when someone enters the base.

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I have 100 prestige, the rent costs 2000 based on all of the items in your base, you bust your hump to make the other 1900, and based upon the "new" way, you won't be gaining anything, because you wanted a base, and now you are paying an added tax to KEEP the items in the base.

[/ QUOTE ]...bust your hump to earn 1900? Earning that much takes almost no time at all...at least for a higher level character, or a group of people.

And a lower-level character, or a solo SG, won't *need* the numbers of items that will cost that much rent.

This is not opinion...this is fact.

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The cost for the items alone is going to break your INF, and the cost to keep the items will break your Prestige.

[/ QUOTE ]The curent rent for the second smallest plot size is 20k per month. The maximum rent for any, and I repeat any base is far below this. This is a quote from PlasmaStream's Guide to Bases in I13

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Part IV Upkeep

New Rent is calculated by certain items you have in base.

Enhancement Storage: 100 Prestige
Inspiration Storage: 100 Prestige
Public Salvage Storage: 100 Prestige
Empowerment Tables: 100 Prestige

For each item you have in your base of the above its 100 prestige.

This means the max rent most bases will have is approximately 2000 (as there is no reason to keep lower level empowerment stations aside from decoration)


Vaults do NOT have a prestige upkeep associated with them, so most will truly only see 1900 rent per cycle.

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This, once again, is fact.

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Now you need it for the COP, you can't have it because you are already in a negative for prestige for having at least half of the other items in the base.

[/ QUOTE ]Since the CoP is currently not working, you don't exactly need it for that...

Isn't complaining about it being worthless and at the same time complaining about having to have it kind of...well...oxymoronic?

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CHEAPER PRICES

[/ QUOTE ]If you won't believe me, I once again point to PlasmaStream's Guide to Bases in I13. Read over that carefully...and you'll notice that what I said is true. Nearly everything had reductions in cost.

See where I'm going with this? Once again, a fact.

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Now. with these facts on the table. Which ones are wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]Pretty much everything you stated, with exception of the CoP being broken.

I just love when people assume that forum reg dates are the same as when someone started the game...

That aside, you're still wrong. Stalkers, for example were never nerfed "way back when". But they were buffed...and rather well, at that.

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I would however like a SG screen "Pay Rent" button. Heading off to Atlas often to pay isn't great fun. Of course, my 50's can just buy a Wentworth TP, or, head over via Vanguard's TP to Atlas.

[/ QUOTE ]Psh. I just use Ouro. Takes practically no time at all.

Though, something in the base would be nice. Perhaps a terminal, or through an existing piece of base tech?

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They have rolled back the changes so it looks like you have prestige, but if you busted your hump to get a avarage to an above average base, you are going to end up paying more rent.

[/ QUOTE ]The only people that will *ever* end up paying more rent is the people on the basic plot-size. The next one up currently has higher rent than is ever possible with the new rent system.

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( which by the way people don't need, because it is a stupid concept that was never explained as to WHY WE NEED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.)

[/ QUOTE ]Let me guess. You're still living in Mom's basement, and don't have to pay rent in the real world.

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they want cheaper prices on items

[/ QUOTE ]Did you miss where I said this is exactly what they gave us?

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when the developers could have easily brought in things like banks, stores, skills,

[/ QUOTE ]Standard code rant applies.

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and then saying your doing me a favor by making me pay double for what I had to earn and bought with the flawed currency of the game

[/ QUOTE ]...pay double? The hell? They're giving a discount. That means you get prestige back. Is this somehow hard for you to understand?

The rest of your post was unreadable to an insane degree...so I have no idea what you're trying to say in most of the rest of your post.

Where is that list of "nerfs" vs "buffs" that shows there has been a *lot* more buffing over the past few issues?

I know someone made one somewhere...but I can't remember for the life of me where it is. And searching for nerf will likely result in a few thousand DOOOOOM posts.

Anyone else remember this post and where it actually is?

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I think somebody else forgot their medication.

[/ QUOTE ]I think that's a bit more accurate...

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- REASONABLE PRICING FOR EQUIPMENT

[/ QUOTE ]...did you perhaps miss the reductions in cost on pretty much everything?

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we don't have choice one, except that we get to go from "Heros". to wage slaves in the space of an Issue.

[/ QUOTE ]Wage slaves? Seriously...what the hell? The max amount of rent is about what a level 50 can make in one or two missions. (note: numbers completely made up...but it's something around that.)

I'd much rather have to pay a little bit of prestige every month than have my equipment constantly degrading. There's a *lot* of stuff in my bases...and to have to constantly repair it wouldn't be fun. At all.

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- WHY don't smaller bases get the concern,

[/ QUOTE ]...er...with the repricings, they've made it easier than it's ever been to have a small SG. Did you actually *read* what the changes are, or have you just decided to complain about what your best buddy told you was bad?

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Personal storage lockers. nuff said.

[/ QUOTE ]Have you ever considered that there might be some technical limitation they're trying to overcome to make this possible? It's not as easy as snapping their fingers, and saying LET THERE BE PERSONAL STORAGE!

Plus...isn't it kind of dumb to be complaining about lack of personal storage, *and* lack of options for solo bases? Isn't personal storage kind of worthless in a solo base?

I can understand the disappointment in getting rid of base salvage. But...what you're complaining about isn't even a concern. The devs have indirectly done a lot for the small bases this issue. Even getting rid of the base salvage helps, since small bases often don't have masses upon masses of base salvage sitting around to craft with...or at least not for quite a while.

Unless I'm completely missing something, your complaints are completely mislaid.

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But *how much* do you need to share?

[/ QUOTE ]That's exactly what I was wondering. I have plenty of Halloween salvage on my main...but I see no need to put it all out at once. If the salvage racks weren't so cluttered with base salvage right now that it'd get lost, I'd put, say, 3 or 4 complete sets out for people to use. As people need it, they can take it. If those are used, I put out more. No need to put 50 sets all out at once just to sit there for who knows how long.

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For all the people who have claimed to be "Good at math" or similar, and have stated that Pool C is "full of garbage":

I counted!

I don't know if the new IO's keep the roughly 1:2 good:bad ratio.

But 12 rolls looks better to me, assuming the market doesn't dry up and blow away, than one LOTG.

And speed-TF'ers are going to do that math. Or one of them is going to do the math and the knowledge will spread.

[/ QUOTE ]I already did that math. Albeit slightly differently, since I went with the entire pool...but I found 32 recipes that are well worth the random roll. Apparently people are too obsessed with "LOL Crap of the hunter" to listen, though.

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Oroboros gets you back to the normal zones and to PI without going through Talos. There are portals for all the further shard zones at firebase Zulu. Any other questions or do you have any other ways of displaying your ignorance?

[/ QUOTE ]You still have to traverse PI from one end to the other several times, which takes at least a minute or so with the fastest travel time...all the travel time in each of the different Paragon City zones...and even if you can get to the different shard zones, they're still insanely massive, so getting to those missions can take quite a while. Then getting *back*, so you can go to a different shard zone for your next mission.

Now, do you have any other ways to display your misplaced arrogance?

Ouro works to get around in the Shard?

Who knew...

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Lets face it, we all know that about 80% of the pool C recipes are extremely limited in demand and utility (AkA, Junk). Sure theres a handful, maybe 5 or so that are worht Multi-Millions, and a slightly larger handful that are worth form 1 to 5, but the vast, vast majority of other Pool C drops go for under a Million.

[/ QUOTE ]Funny...I just looked at Wenty's...and 32 pool C recipes go for over a million. Most of them going for multiple millions.

Granted, this is out of all of them, so you're not able to pick from all of them out of each level range...but it's more than a "small handfull" of recipes that are actually worthwhile to get.

Even the so-called "Crap of the hunter" proc is worth a million at level 20. Since you can pick the level range you pick from, your odds can be pretty good with the random roll.

Add this to the fact that prices will possibly go up for less-desired recipes...and if you listen to the DOOOM patrol, they'll skyrocket...this makes the random roll even *more* lucrative.

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Not quite actually.
Ernesto Hess and the 3rd Villain Respec Trial are worth 15 a piece. (At the bottom of the screen, click Merit Rewards)

[/ QUOTE ]Okay, then there are 5 total. That's still quite a minority that were reduced.

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People are saying that it's a reduction in rewards, because it is. Return the random roll as a choice to all TFs and watch people magically stop saying that.

[/ QUOTE ]It's only a reduction in rewards for Tarkoss, Katie, and Eden. All other non-Ouro TFs/SFs are worth at least the cost of a random roll...and in most cases, more. Thus, an increase in rewards.

If random rolls *were* for some reason returned, I can imagine it would be these three that they wouldn't be returned to.

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As for Katie Hannon TF, they're giving 7 merits (that assumes the avergae 35 min KHTF), what did I say the average seemed like? 45-60 minutes, so all that does is increase the amount of merits to 9-12.

[/ QUOTE ]The 7 merits is what it's worth currently...not the "OMG lots of merits" you suggested the Katie be worth in your post.

...unless you were being sarcastic, in which case it flew right over my head.


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Q. Why does it cost 20 merits for a random roll for a rare magic or tech salvage and 30 merits to choose one over the other?

[/ QUOTE ]For the same reason the Trial pool is more expensive than the TF pool. It's smaller. And thus, you're more likely to get what you "want". (assuming you wanted one thing out of it.)

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You're relatively punished for running the ITF, LRSF, STF, and LGTF under the new system. These are generally more difficult to successfully complete for the average team than older, longer, grindier TFs but give as little as half the rewards of them.

[/ QUOTE ]...once again, you missed my point. It's still a reward. Whether you think it's worth it, that's a different story...but it's not "no reward to speak of".

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So now, we are punished from playing the fun TFs by receiving no reward to speak off,

[/ QUOTE ]That's only true if the only TFs you consider to be fun are Eden and Katie.

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They can take care of the speed runs, with Diminishing Returns.

With my example on KHTF, it's merits won't go up much. You get the OMG lots of merits quick, then if you run it a 2nd time, you get...1/2 that.

[/ QUOTE ]Unless they find a way to use Diminishing Returns on multiple characters...no, they can't. People will just do as they've always done, and run multiple Edens back to back, just on different characters.

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Its not lose lose. Its they decide to crack down on the casual players to punish the speeders the casuals grab another game from the hundreds out there.

So for them its lose lose for the customers its lose win

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So, it's really a lose/lose situation, as far as the devs' perspective goes.

[/ QUOTE ]Bolded for emphasis. Do try and actually read what people say, instead of what you want to read.

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They provided a huge amount of weight to the small percentage that speed runs multiple times - case in point: Eden. Do you honestly think that the average group of players is completing it in 10 minutes, or is that just the speed runs?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes and no.

I think that the number of people that are doing the 10 minute runs are doing it a *lot* more than the people that are completing it in two hours. And by a lot, I mean a [u]lot[u]. A friend of mine once ran it about 15 times in a row, with all his different alts, in one night. The group would just constantly switch out to different alts, and run it until everyone had run it twice with everyone they wanted to.

Do you honestly think that there were 15 people that ran the Eden trial all the way through on that server that one night to normalize the results? The numbers might be *slightly* low...but not by much, if at all.

Good or bad...things like that completely skewed the "average"...and people that ran Eden legitimately are punished until the devs make changes to Eden. But if the devs made Eden be worth, say, 25 merits...the speed runs would only *increase*...and that's not what they want.

So, it's really a lose/lose situation, as far as the devs' perspective goes. They chose the one that wouldn't completely invalidate their merit system, and would at least somewhat encourage running something other than Eden.

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I think you should base the amount of merits rewarded by the average time a TF takes, rather than what it can be sped to.

[/ QUOTE ]Good thing that's what they did!

See, the thing is, that for every team that runs Katie in 60 minutes...there are probably a hundred or so that run it in 30 minutes. I've run a few out of boredom or the badge, and just joined random teams, and I've never seen one go over 35 minutes.

Average doesn't mean *your* average time. Just because *you* complete Posi in 6-8 hours doesn't mean everyone does. Like how they did it or not...they took the average time for each TF...and all of them are fairly believable. The only aberation is Eden...but there were a *lot* of Speedens being run. Probably the fictitious 100:1 I made up in the above Katie example (which probably is also not far off). That tends to make the people that don't run it that fast get lost in the statistics.

And if you *really* want Posi to be reduced to the amount it can be sped to (like some dooooooomists are saying will happen a week after I13 launches, it seems), then Posi would be about an hour and a half or an hour.

Unfortunate? Somewhat. But it's the best solution at the moment (with the time nearing I13 launch coming closer and closer), if the devs don't want to give a random recipe for 10-30 minutes of work.

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What isn't subjective is that I'm not the one assigning a value to people's time - the devs are. And the value they've assigned to your time isn't subjective either.

5 minutes of taskforce time, or 12.5 minutes of storyarc time, are worth 1 merit. 1 merit is worth 1/20th for a random pool C drop or 1/200th of a specific pool C drop. 100 minutes of your time is worth a random pool C drop; 1000 minutes is worth a specific pool C drop.

I didn't make that up and tell you what your time was supposed to be worth, the devs did

[/ QUOTE ]...see...now, you're completely skewing things out into left field. Did you miss the part where I said I play this game for fun? I've got a LGTF scheduled for tomorrow night...and we're going to have fun playing it. Sure, there are people out there that can run it in 30 minutes, or whatever the "speed" time is...but we're going to take our time, and have a whole lot of fun playing it.

That's what my time is worth. Fun. And the devs didn't have a single thing to say in that.


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Sorry to break it to you, too, but your fun also doesn't seem to matter to the devs' decision on what your time is worth because they've given the most merits to what are broadly considered the least fun tasks (positron; doctor Q; long, 4-year-old multi-zone travel storyarcs with multiple delivery or hunt missions). And they've given much less merits to taskforces and storyarcs which are newer, hailed as more fun (the ITF, katie, the STF, all of the villain ones), and even more difficult to successfully accomplish (especially the LRSF and STF).

[/ QUOTE ]You're under the presumtion that everyone cares about getting the most possible merits for every second they play. That's completely and totally wrong. Merits will be a nice side benefit...but I'll play what I have fun with. I like Posi. I'll play it because it's one I can play with just my boyfriend, with very little hassle. And we'll have fun doing it.

Or...no...wait. We won't...because you don't think it's possible for us to be able to.

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The fact that you don't think the optimal path is fun, doesn't change the fact that it's optimal.

[/ QUOTE ]I never said that.

What's "worth it" to people isn't always the optimal path.

Is buying cheap salvage at Wenty's for 1000 just so I can be sure to have it without having to rebid worth it? To some people, it's a waste of money. But to me, it's worth it just to be able to get on with whatever it is I'm doing.

Just as it'll be worth it to take the random rolls, albeit for a completely different reason.

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"Have fun" in six months when a relatively small group of people who do what I'm describing have made it nearly impossible for you to actually achieve merits at the developer-decided rate of one per five minutes.

[/ QUOTE ]I will. I'll be having fun playing the same game I've been playing for the past two years. I had fun before IOs. I ran TFs before IOs. Even if they completely stripped IOs from the game, the game would still be fun.

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In fact, try to do it for everyone that tries to act arrogant with their opinion. It's a humorous form of argument that some stuck up people can't stand, because they consider their words too important to change.

[/ QUOTE ]*cough*

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The average influence/infamy value of a pool C recipe would have to be A: at least 1/10th of the inf value of a super-shiny (LOTG, Miracle, Numina) and greater than 5 million influence/infamy in order to be 'worth' 100 minutes of active game-time.

[/ QUOTE ]Now are you going to tell me which TFs I have to run to be worth my time? And what ATs I should play? And what time to play?

I'll decide what's worth my time and merits, thanks. If I decide that it's worth it to buy nothing but SOs...well, then that's my choice.

I play this game for fun. There are a lot of things out of the Pool C that I can end up using, so using the random rolls will be the best way to go, for me. Sure, I may end up getting more inf saving up for nothing but LotGs and selling them...but that would be boring.

And your math also fails to take into account that the market will almost certainly fluxuate somewhat come I13. How it will is yet to be seen...but using numbers from the current market just isn't going to work.

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Bottom line? Random rolls won't ever be very worth it for me.

[/ QUOTE ]Fixed that for you.

As already demonstrated, there are several people in this thread for which they *will* be worth it. And we're not the only ones.