TonyV

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You're right, he doesn't have to. But he does because he doesn't want to tick anyone off. Most artists have been good humored about it and said yes. A few, like Prince, have said no, and he's respected that.

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If an artist really didn't want him to, it wouldn't be a slam dunk case. Fair Use does have limits, and one of the considerations of a court about whether something is a Fair Use parody or not is the commercial nature of it. Weird Al makes money off of his parodies, which muddies the waters a little bit. There was a case 15 years ago where 2 Live Crew was sued for parodying Roy Orbison's "Pretty Woman." In the end, 2 Live Crew won because the court decided that the parody was a critical commentary on the original, and thus it didn't consider the commercial nature of the work in making its decision as an important enough factor. However, it did specifically mention the commercial nature of works as a factor in making such judgments, and noted that such cases have to be handled, no pun intended, on a case-by-case basis.

Personally, I think he'd win any lawsuit. But it's not an automatic win. At any rate, Weird Al has said that he always gets the artist's permission as a courtesy, so it's probably a moot point. When he released "Amish Paradise," a parody of Coolio's "Gangsta Paradise," apparently Coolio's "people" had told Weird Al it was okay. After the song came out, though, Coolio said something in an interview about how it was crap, and he shouldn't have been allowed to release it. (Which, incidentally, was pretty damn stupid, considering the Coolio himself had swiped "Gangsta Paradise" from Stevie Wonder's "Pasttime Paradise.") Once Coolio found out that he had given permission, albeit indirectly, they kissed and made up. (Figuratively, as far as I can tell.)

About the Prince thing, I'll never forget an interview I saw with Weird Al once. He mentioned that Prince wouldn't give him the okay to parody his songs. Later, the interviewer asked him what the difference between a Weird Al concert and a Prince concert was. Without missing a beat, Weird Al told the interviewer that they were actually a lot alike, except that his (Weird Al's) are intentionally funny. Ouch!

Needless to say, I'm a huge Weird Al fan.

ENOUGH. Just go, already.

You people are acting like a bunch of whiny-[censored] four-year-olds, trolling all posts, cluttering up the forums with an argument that you've lost, knowing that the threads are going to be locked or deleted.

Funny thing is that some people probably were banned accidentally, and all you had to do was follow the normal procedures for everything to work out okay. However, your actions here are going a long way towards earning you a legitimate ban, the kind that doesn't come with a note saying, "Sorry, our bad" and restoration of your account. Good luck with that letting the time run out on your account thing.

If you want to leave, then get the hell out already. Why are you wasting your time with a game that you know you're not going to be playing much longer? In my book, that makes you pretty stupid or pretty scummy, take your pick. If you've really made up your mind, then GO. If not, then we've put up with this idiotic month-long WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH for long enough, it's time to put up or shut up.

You know what really sucks? Some of the people spamming the forums now are the very same people who I've had to read for years about how much they hate RMT spammers, but what you're doing is far, far worse. At least I know that RMT spammers have a financial motive for what they do.

But this... This is just a sad and pathetic case of a bunch of bullies trying to make the lives of others miserable. To hell with rules and civility, to hell with innocent bystanders who have nothing to do with your little crusade, just burn, baby, burn. I can't have my favorite toy, so no one gets to play either. I guess the thought never crossed your mind that if you don't like the way the game is going, you could just say goodbye to your friends and leave, did it? Noooo, you have to try to take the whole game down with you.

Well, I've got some news that might hurt your inflated ego. Your shenanigans aren't going to destroy the game. Trust me, over the years, I've seen bigger, way more respected names than you try over various stupid little problems they've had with the game. Guess what. Game's still here. Guess what's going to happen when you leave. Game's still going to be here, going stronger than ever without you.

All you're doing with these posts is needlessly pissing people off, and that makes you a griefer. And you know what happens when a griefer leaves the game? I smile. I celebrate, with whispers of, "Thank god that little bit of drama is gone. Now we can get back to having fun again." So yeah, good riddance. At one time, I might have felt bad that the game was losing any subscribers. I'm smarter now, and I realize that for the game to grow, we desperately need to get rid of the abject negativity that pervades your posts. /em wave.

You people are disgraceful. I really do try not to get mad, and I really do try not to encourage people to go, but with the way you are acting about this, the game will be much, much better without you. I'm not even going to dignify this thread with a "can I have your stuff." DELETE all your stuff and all of your characters so that you won't be tempted to return and so that we never, ever have to tolerate this mind-boggling stupidity again. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya on your way out. Oh, and try not to cry too much when, five years from now, the game is still going strong without you.

I'm sure CO or DCUO or MUO or whatever FOTM game is out in a year or two that you try to ruin next will be happy to cater to your every whim.

Yeah, good luck with that, too.

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There aren't, by the way, *laws* per se. They're just violating the EULA. Even *here* there's question about just how much weight that can carry, as I recall.

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Actually, they're doing more than just breaking the EULA. They are using NCsoft's "City of Heroes" trademark and game elements ("influence," etc.) on their web sites in a non-protected way for commercial gain, which is illegal in the U.S. I've glanced at some of the sites, and they even use the City of Heroes logo, which is a HUGE no-no.

Nevertheless, everyone is generally correct. What they're doing may not even be illegal in China, and the U.S. doesn't have the authority to impose its laws on other countries all willy-nilly. (Witness: BitTorrent.) Even if it is illegal in China, the cost of prosecution would be prohibitively expensive, and even if successful, the people who are running the RMT sites would simply register a new domain name and open up shop again.

It's one of those things where it may not be right, but there's no good way to deal with it.

Well, except that they do have power to limit advertising within the game through various technical means. And to a large extent, it has worked. Anyone who was here before the trial account nerfs can testify to the effectiveness, we used to suffer a pretty steady barrage of RMT tells and much more spam e-mail than we do now.

I'm not going to argue about it here. There are threads specifically for that argument, and I urge people to take that debate elsewhere.

Belle says hi, and she hopes you change your mind, if not now, then maybe later.

*Post deleted by TonyV*

Meh, I changed my mind. I don't even want to dignify your post with a response.

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Echoing the learn to read response, as well as stating (as I did in another thread about this) that I hope people who have nothing better to do with their time than post anti-farming rants into threads about legitimate concerns with the direction the dev team has taken things get banned from the game and forums.

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Okay, since this road has been gone down...

Rock_Crag is the one who steered this thread down a farming road, not mscats. Here, I'll quote it for you since it's obvious that you need to learn to read:
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With the whole idea that farming is considered a bad thing.... I can't help but wonder how far this will go. How many of my fellow gamers will leave? How many restrictions on game-play will be added? I was never one for farming, but it was nice knowing the quicker option was there. That if I ever did tire of the same content.... I had something that could help me get where I wanted to go. Something that's not just a shiny distraction.

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Funny how the OP cites the devs and GMs cracking down on farming as a reason for leaving, and it's a "legitimate concern." One, incidentally, that should have been posted in the threads designated for farming, one that consistently has been getting threads locked.

Someone posts a response to it, and it's an "anti-farming rant."

Give me a break.

Rock_Crag, I like you. I've played with you a few times though you probably didn't know who I was. Sorry you feel bored with the game, maybe it's time for a break and you'll come back someday. Whether or so or not, good luck, and I hope you have fun whatever it is you end up doing.

But it still doesn't change the fact that you should have known that your comments were flamebait.

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When people that aren't farming and never did anything wrong are getting characters deleted and accounts banned due to the measures the devs are taking, then the devs are completely in the wrong.

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..And mscats is the one who's accused of posting rants? Pot, meet kettle. I have to point out that no one forced you to respond.

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Ultimately it's like chess, baseball, football, charades, or any other game -- play it for fun if you like doing so.

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I once played a game of chess. Once checkmate happened (I think my opponent won, as I recall), I thought, "Is this it? No more endgame content?"

Chess sucks, I don't think I'll play it any more.

You know, you people could just take this over to CoHFaces. 'Cause, ya know, it's kind of what the site is for...

I posted a picture of myself there, but my username is diabolically tricky to deduce. I doubt you'll be able to find it.

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not rue, this is my highest level toon, i just want to know where it is all heading.

f it is true that there is no real end-game, ill just RP a little bit until my account runs out...

i need an epic battle with real consequences..

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So form up a group of players who agree that when they ding level 50, they go to a PvP zone and fight until they're defeated. When they are, delete the character, since that character is now either dead, arrested, or captured and thus will never do anything again.

Pretty epic, and it hardly gets more real than that!

As others have mentioned, this game isn't something to "win." It really is about the journey. If that's a problem, then I hate to say it, but every MMORPG out there has some kind of level cap, and it sounds like your problem isn't so much with City of Heroes as it is with the genre.

Good luck, and I'm not being facetious, in finding a game you like better.

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Expecting people to act like adults isn't out of line, but his original post (I started mine before he made his second) essentially amounted to "well, the EULA says they can do whatever they want whenever they want and if you don't like it, leave".

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No, my point was that the EULA says they can do whatever they want, and if you don't like how it is enforced, pretty much your only recourse is to leave.

Obviously, you do have avenues for appeal. Getting friends together and protesting in Atlas Park and posting threads here are not acceptable ones and have exactly zero chance of working (and quite a significant possibility of causing even more harm). But when all is said and done, if you don't like the final decision of NCsoft, that's pretty much it.

Personally, I think it's enforced just fine. Maybe I'd have done a few things a little differently, but I've never been particularly mad about anything having to do with it. I've never gotten characters nuked, and those who have, I've usually thought, "Yeah, I can see that happening."

People have to understand that there's no such thing as "not infringing enough." Just because a trademark lawsuit might not be won over it does not imply that it's not against the EULA. They're two different beasts. I just get really, really tired of people saying, "It's a parody/homage," "They can't sue over that," and so on. It doesn't matter Again, there's no such thing as "not infringing enough."

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As for the biography itself is original.

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If this is the case, then you should have changed the costume and been done with it.

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And I'll not be publishing any letters. All letters are between myself and the GM's so do not expect to see any here.

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Good call, as I'm pretty sure that would get you banned.

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So I hope the troll who generic'd me is happy, they won.

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If a GM told you to delete a character, you need to contact Niviene or what's-his-name (is it EMPulse?), the new community coordinator, and report what happened. If a GM has really gone that far out of line, they need to know so that it doesn't happen to other people.

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My thanks everyone who turned out in support last night in Atlas.

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...And this is my issue. This isn't a mob rule kind of problem, it is a simple issue between a GM and a player. The answer to solve such issues isn't to get out the torches and pitchforks (or in this case, protest signs), it is to follow the proper escalation procedures.

As it is, like I said, you and the OP have likely hurt your case more than helped. At any rate, though, I hope everything works out for you.

To everyone else, before you go grabbing your torches and pitchforks, please keep in mind that we've gotten exactly one side of the story here, and because of the nature of GM communications, this is likely to remain true. You do not know what was said between this player and the GM and what all went down. It's not your place to get involved in that which you do not know about.

Okay, you seem to be new here, so I'm not going to be really nice.

First of all, please don't CAPITALIZE YOUR SUBJECTS in posts. It makes it stand out, but not in a good way.

Second of all, this suggestion has been posted in various ways over the years, and like someone above mentioned, it's not going to happen. I don't blame you for posting something that you probably don't know the history of, but be aware that you're likely to get flamed for doing so. Don't get defensive, that will only make your situation worse.

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Champions Online is releasing soon...

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...which has nothing to do with this issue. Someone violated the EULA and got busted for it, action was taken, and life goes on. Frankly, if a company puts a EULA out there and doesn't enforce it, that totally sucks, and it's not a game I want to play.

Besides, I hate to burst your bubble (actually, I really don't), but I guaran-damn-tee you that Champions Online is going to have the exact same language in their EULA, and the exact same thing is going to happen to people who create knock-offs of other characters.

I really think I'm going to enjoy the dismay and misery of everyone here who is trying to use the tired lame "I'm going to Champions Online!" excuse to try to justify being stupid. First of all, I don't think they're really going to leave, and second of all, for those few who might try, I do wish I could see the looks on their faces when they realize that Cryptic doesn't tolerate stupidity either. Where are you going to go then?

If you're looking for a game that doesn't enforce its EULA, one that allows borderline cases of infringement, I honestly don't think any game out there on the market will serve you. Maybe you can write your own, and then you can say whatever you want in the EULA, enforce it as little or as much as you want, and differentiate between whether something similar is infringing or not. If writing your own game is out of your technical or motivational reach, then I guess you're just going to have to learn to live with the rules.

Or, you know, take up woodworking instead.

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thay cannot be sued by US copyright laws for someone having a character that looks SIMILAR to a copyrighted name/face/character/fart smell this si teh same reason people cannot sue Wierd Al for the songs he makes, or comapanies for making iPhone clones. All this is, is NCSoft taking draconion measures to "protect" themselves from now non-existant copyright lawsuits.

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*sigh...* Yet another poster who confuses what's legal versus what's prohibited by the EULA.

Here's the fact you've just got to get through your thick skull. Whether or not it's a trademark violation is completely irrelevant. NCsoft could nuke any character at any time they want, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it except cancel your subscription. (Which is why you're getting the "leave" posts; not because we want you gone, but because that is your only recourse.)

So stop arguing whether something is or isn't legal. Stop arguing whether it is or isn't a trademark violation. That way leads to madness, and it's not why they nuke characters.

They nuke characters for bearing any resemblance, be it in name, appearance, biography, demeanor, or anything else, to any non-CoH entities. This is not the same thing as a trademark violation. Is a parody character of Superman a trademark violation? No, it's protected by the First Amendment, and DC cannot sue you or NCsoft for infringement. (Well, technically they can, but they'll lose.) Is it against the EULA? Yes, and that is what you've got to understand.

- No, just because you've had a character for x years doesn't mean it's okay.
- No, just because someone else has a similar character that hasn't been nuked doesn't mean it's okay.
- No, just because the developers put their own homage characters in the game doesn't mean it's okay.
- No, just because someone would lose an infringement lawsuit for it doesn't make it okay.
- No, just because you think the character isn't "infringing enough" doesn't make it okay.

Think of City of Heroes kind of like a house that is owned by NCsoft. You are invited to come into their house and you're welcome to stay as long as you abide by their rules. If you say something they ask you not to, no matter how well within your First Amendment rights you might be, they have the right to kick you out because they own the house.

So please, just stop. You're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it except knock it off or leave. I'd suggest the former.

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PvP is a lot like going down to the public tennis courts looking for a friendly match and finding out that the only people there to play with are Rodger Federer, Andy Roddick and the Williams sisters. A couple of matches against any of them and you'll swear off tennis as a sport.

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Ha ha! I like that analogy!

Why I don't PvP:

1) I'm not that competitive to begin with. If the devs want me to PvP, that's probably the biggest hurdle they'll have to overcome.

2) There are too many idiots in the PvP zones, idiots who think that because they beat someone who isn't really a PvP character, that makes them some kind of great warrior. (This is not a general characterization of PvP players, see below.)

3) It takes too long to build out a PvP character. Most of the really good ones are decked out with purple IOs, which have been obtained through farming and/or playing the market, which I don't do. If I were to PvP, I would at best be mediocre, because I'd likely be doing it with only normal IOs, or even SOs, with maybe some rare (not purple) enhancements.

4) With all due respect to the devs, City of Heroes just isn't a very good PvP game. I'm not saying it's not a good game, it's a fantastic game. But if I wanted PvP competition, I'd be playing Call of Duty.

5) Again with all due respect to the devs, even given the above, it could be better. There's just no real sense of accoplishment in PvP zones. Sure, I could keep some villain from getting Shivans or nukes, but why should I? Although my character should probably care very much, as a player, I know in my heart that if I stop them, they'll just go to the hospital and, no matter what I do, ten minutes or so later, they'll have them anyway. Maybe if they had more challenges where victory is mutually exclusive and the other side is standing directly in your way. I don't know.

Now, having said all of that, some people genuinely enjoy PvP, and I have nothing against it. (And no, I'm not talking about all of the "I quit!" whiners after the PvP changes. When the going gets tough, real PvPers get tougher.) They don't trash talk beginners, they're generally nice folks. In my experience, these folks don't typically hang out in PvP zones waiting to do battle. They join leagues or PvP-oriented supergroups and schedule times to go throw down.

If you're interested in PvP, I would post a message in the appropriate server thread asking to get involved in whatever groups are already set up. That way, you'll avoid neeedlessly hanging out in empty zones, and you'll be much more likely to avoid the losers.

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Nexus Ar'gos, a 5 yer old character with a 5 year old costume, was generic'ed by the GMs. SO griefer reported that the character was a Captain Mar'vell ripoff and that's all it took

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It is a Captain Mar'vell ripoff. I'm sorry, but I have little sympathy here. I don't understand why some people have such a hard time understanding this. Don't create look-alikes. Don't create "homage" characters. Don't write your bio to be the same as someone else. Don't make your costume look like someone else.

Can you get away with it sometimes? Sure. But why bother? Why risk going five years in with a character and having it genericked because of a lapse in creativity or a disregard for the EULA?

Create original characters. Period. "But so-en-so has a character that hasn't been genericked that looks like—" Doesn't matter. "But the name is totally different, it's only the costume/bio that—" Irrelevant. "But I've had this character for five—" So what? "But homage characters/parody characters don't violate tradem—" Seriously, can it.

In a court of law, you might be right. Marvel/DC/Whoever might not be able to sue you and win. But this isn't a court of law. It's a private business, and like it or not, they have the absolute, final judgment over whether or not your name/costume/bio/anything else is allowed in the game. They have repeatedly asked people not to copy aspects of other characters into the game. It's not like it's a secret that everyone is keeping. It's not like this is new. It's not like there aren't plenty of examples out there of people getting genericked to prove that they're serious. And yes, as a private company, they get to have a double standard, and create homage characters and have them in the game themselves. File it in the "it's good to be the king" folder.

Yet still, after all this time, we still have people who are surprised and outraged that a character gets whacked. To me, that doesn't say that the GMs are too picky or too quick to act. To me, it says that some people are incredibly dense and have to learn things like this the hard way.

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AFTER that happened, now the GMs are demanding that the toon be deleted outright OR the player's 5 [year] running account will be banned.

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This, I simply don't believe. Either the person grossly misunderstood what the GM said or is deliberately misrepresenting what happened. If the person is on the level, the appropriate thing to do would be to have taken it up with the GM's manager, as I'm sure that's against policy. However, the fact that the player was violating trademark and was at least indirectly responsible for this little "protest" (which, incidentally, is also against the rules, as is your post here) certainly doesn't help his or her case.

You and this player may very well have sabotaged any chance there might have been of them taking any action against the GM for extorting a player to delete a character (if it really happened) with these histrionics. Someone else mentioned that it's wise for players to keep a level head. It's not just because it makes you a good and moral person. It's because without a level head, the chances of getting results are slim to none.

Hopefully there will be some lessons learned here before this thread gets deleted.

Life:

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>be_born();
while(!dead) {
do_stuff();
go_to_sleep();
wake_up();
}
echo "Rosebud...";
exit 0;</pre><hr />
The ultimate grind.

Still, it has it's moments, doesn't it?

Um...

Zombies and ghouls aren't real.

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...players that did not pl or use any exploit have gotten 72hr bans and toons deleted.

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I'm officially calling BS on that claim.

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What is all this talk of doom from the older players? I cant seem to find what everyone is referencing. Links would be muchly appreciated.

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There's always doom. It's the way of the forums, unfortunately.

Luckily, the doomsayers are always wrong. The game gets better every issue.

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Ditto. In spite of my frustration at people here, it's still a really cool game after five years. In spite of disagreeing sometimes with the developers, I think they do a great job. For the 1% of the time I'm unhappy in the game, there's 99% of happiness, and that's a much better rate of return than most pasttimes.

Here's to the years to come!

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Your example would be more accurate by asking what if a baseball team manager focused all on pitching rather than hitting? Or a card player focused solely on bluffing rather than reading the cards. Both things are parts of the game. But if you give all the attention to one, the game stops being fun.

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You, sir, are simply incorrect. I'll point out that nowhere is this game marketed or advertised as a farming game, a power-leveling game, a collect-stuff game, or anything else.

Here, read it yourself.

That's what I think a lot of people are missing, including the OP. This is a role-playing game. If you're not a role-player, that's all fine and good, but you need to realize that you are on our turf, not vice versa. If the game isn't fulfilling your need to level up, collect stuff, or whatever it is that you've set as your goal, it is your shortcoming, not the game's or the developer's.

That other stuff is just gravy to make the game a bit more fun and interesting to some people (yes, including us), but it's not what the game is about. And if it gets to the point where people abuse it to the point where it interferes with the game's core purpose, it can--and as recently demonstrated--will be taken away.

It's just as if you go play Call of Duty and are disappointed that people just don't care that much about developing their characters there. If you want to have a rich and engaging backstory for your soldier, fine, but it's pretty silly to be surprised when other people play a shooter game as, well, a shooter.

&lt;QR&gt;

This game is marketed and advertised as a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.

That, in itself, should be 'nuff said, but allow me to expand on the thought. Do people in Call of Duty complain about how the devs are too shooter-friendly? Does anyone call up Bud Selig and complain that baseball is too sports-friendly? Have you ever heard of someone complaining at a Texas Hold'em tournament that the game is way too card-friendly?

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I like the current system with all levels of IO available instead of every 5. Because it opens up opportunity to buy something cheaper. If a level 35 recipe is expensive, the level 34 and 36 ones maybe cheaper.

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I actually have a theory about that. Yes, level 35 enhancements will probably still be more expensive than level 34 and 36 enhancements are now. However, I would think that because there would be a much larger supply of level 35 enhancements (presumably all of those people who would have gotten level 36 through level 39 enhancements will now get 35s instead), the price of level 35 enhancements will drop far below what it is now. Ditto recipes.

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Give everyone a Walk inherent power.

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I'd prefer a 1%-100% speed slider. Harder to do, but much more useful.

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I like both these ideas, but I can just imagine:

New guy: "OMG! why am i moving so slooow?!?!"
Vet: "Your speed slider is at 1..."

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Super speed, super jump, and any of the sprints would toggle it off.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Just a couple of responses to points made here:

1) I see your point about listing primary and secondary powersets in the search window. My main train of thought was people who only want certain powersets for whatever they're doing tend to ask everyone in tells, "Are you emp?" (Or whatever they're looking for.) I don't particularly like being bugged by the tells, and I'm sure they'd rather not have to ask. The people who don't really care one way or another don't bother to ask and wouldn't care what it said in the search window.

However, I suppose there is a contingent of people who don't bother to ask now because it's not that important to them, but that if it were there in the search window, given the choice between an Empathy defender and a Force Field defender, might always choose the Empathy defender.

So I dunno, I'm willing to compromise on that one. (Not that any of these suggestions are "Do it or I'm leaving!" problems; they're all just tweaks that would make life better.)

2) As for the costume change suggestion, it's dependent, of course, on the technical capability to do so. If there weren't any technical reason for there to be no delay at all, I'd have asked it to be zero seconds. Apparently there is, so really the suggestion just boils down to, "Please make it low as possible without negatively impacting the game." The reason why is because sometimes I accidentally change into the wrong costume, and I feel silly having to sit there waiting 30 second to change back, and it's annoying if I want to make tweaks to more than one costume at Icon.

3) I'm missing how characters would be less playable if level 43 enhancements were changed to level 45, other than you would have to wait two more levels before slotting them. When you sidekick/exemplar, correct me if I'm wrong, but your IOs scale with you, no? So if you're exemplared down to level 15, having a level 45 IO would actually benefit you a little more than a level 43 IO?

The system works really well, I think, for normal IOs. I'd just like to see it extended to the other crafted IOs also. Shoot, I'd even be willing to say that I'd like it extended to all enhancements, even down to the low-level trainings ones, with maybe an exception for level one enhancements for the tutorial.

Anyway, just my two cents' worth!

What he said. You can also change the number of posts shown per page, which is handy. I have mine set to a huge number, and I'm always amused when people are like, "ZOMG there are 10 pages of posts!" I'm like, "Um, no there's not..."