The_Spad_EU

Whoops, I should have mentioned that.

CoX's use of percentages is not conducive to understanding

According to CoD, Energy Absorption gives two distinct DEF buffs;

0.6% DEF and 1.0% DEF.

Both buffs are capped at 10 targets, however, the 1.0% buff "...does not stack from same caster" as it's only supposed to be a boost for the first mob hit (to help when you're fighting smaller groups).

Presumably this means that if you stack EA, the second usage doesn't garner the 1.0% buff.

This would mean that (unenhanced) with 10 mobs, your first application of EA would gift you 7% DEF, however, the 2nd (and beyond) application would only bolster that by a further 6% DEF.

Can anyone confirm this for me?

[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys, nice read that.

Got an Ice Tank at 18, and enjoying it so far. Looking forward to SO's to finally feel fully Tank-y.

Few questions though

- How long does the defense buff last on EA?
- How much more piddly defense would an extra SO in Frozen Armour give?

It's my first Tank, and I'll be going for a Stamina-less build, but was wondering if Health was really useful on a Tank, because of their higher HP's, hence higher regen rates.

Cheers chappies.

[/ QUOTE ]

EA's DEF buff lasts for 45 seconds

The first two (even level) SOs in your armours give 20% DEF, the 3rd gives 16% and a 4th would give 3%.

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Crystal Clay
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Ice Armor
Secondary: Stone Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Frozen Armor==> EndRdx(1) EndRdx(7) DefBuf(9) DefBuf(11) DefBuf(11)
01) --> Stone Fist==> EndRdx(1) Acc(13) Dmg(15) Dmg(15) Dmg(17)
02) --> Hoarfrost==> Rechg(2) Rechg(3) Rechg(3) Heal(5) Heal(5) Heal(7)
04) --> Heavy Mallet==> EndRdx(4) Acc(13) Dmg(17) Dmg(19) Dmg(19) Rechg(37)
06) --> Wet Ice==> EndRdx(6)
08) --> Air Superiority==> EndRdx(8) Acc(9)
10) --> Chilling Embrace==> EndRdx(10)
12) --> Taunt==> Rechg(12)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14) Fly(33) Fly(33)
16) --> Icicles==> EndRdx(16) Acc(34) Dmg(34) Dmg(34) Dmg(37)
18) --> Glacial Armor==> EndRdx(18) EndRdx(21) DefBuf(21) DefBuf(23) DefBuf(40)
20) --> Hurdle==> Jump(20)
22) --> Health==> Heal(22) Heal(23) Heal(25)
24) --> Stamina==> EndMod(24) EndMod(25) EndMod(31)
26) --> Energy Absorbtion==> DefBuf(26) DefBuf(27) DefBuf(27) Rechg(29) Rechg(29) Rechg(31)
28) --> Hasten==> Rechg(28) Rechg(31) Rechg(33)
30) --> Fault==> EndRdx(30) Acc(42) DisDur(45) DisDur(46) DisDur(46)
32) --> Aid Other==> IntRdx(32)
35) --> Tremor==> EndRdx(35) Acc(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(37) Rechg(40)
38) --> Seismic Smash==> EndRdx(38) Acc(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(40) Rechg(48)
41) --> Aid Self==> IntRdx(41) IntRdx(42) IntRdx(42) Heal(43) Heal(43) Heal(43)
44) --> Block of Ice==> EndRdx(44) Acc(45) Hold(45) Hold(46) Hold(48)
47) --> Ice Blast==> EndRdx(47) Acc(48) Dmg(50) Dmg(50) Dmg(50)
49) --> Hibernate==> Rechg(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> EndRdx(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
01) --> Power Slide==> Empty(1)
---------------------------------------------

As for Energy Absorption, it goes something like this:

Base: 10*0.6 + 1 = 7%
1*DEF: 10*0.72 + 1.20 = 8.4% (+1.4)
2*DEF: 10*0.84 + 1.40 = 9.8% (+1.4)
3*DEF: 10*0.94 + 1.56 = 10.92% (+1.12)

So you do obviously get marginally less benefit from the 3rd enhancement, but then it's all pretty marginal anyway. 27.6% is your DEF before EA, so it's a question of how much better 38.51% DEF is than 34.5% (which I can't do in my head as my math-fu is dreadful). The Fire/Cold is only going from 1.0 to 8% or 11.92% so it's effectively negligible.

[ QUOTE ]
that's pretty much where my ice/fire is aimed, with only a few changes. most immediately noticeable defensive slotting difference is chilling embrace. i've got that slotted for 3*slow, 2* taunt, 1* end red atm to give more damage mitigation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember that Slow enhancements only increase the -Speed of the power and not the -Recharge. Good for stopping people from running away, not so good for damage mitigation.

Ice/Fire Tank - considerable changes since he started out life in I3 as pretty much the only Ice tank on Defiant.

Built as an offensive meat shield, aggro control is supplemented by two high damage AoE attacks in addition to Icicles from the primary.

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Spad
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Ice Armor
Secondary: Fiery Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Frozen Armor==> EndRdx(1) EndRdx(3) DefBuf(3) DefBuf(19) DefBuf(19)
01) --> Scorch==> EndRdx(1) Acc(5) Dmg(5) Dmg(7) Dmg(17)
02) --> Hoarfrost==> Rechg(2) Rechg(7) Rechg(9) Heal(9) Heal(11) Heal(11)
04) --> Combustion==> EndRdx(4) Acc(13) Dmg(13) Dmg(15) Dmg(15) Rechg(17)
06) --> Wet Ice==> EndRdx(6) EndRdx(50)
08) --> Air Superiority==> EndRdx(8)
10) --> Chilling Embrace==> EndRdx(10)
12) --> Taunt==> Rechg(12)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14) Fly(21) Fly(48)
16) --> Swift==> Run(16)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18) Heal(21) Heal(23)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(25) EndMod(27)
22) --> Glacial Armor==> EndRdx(22) EndRdx(23) DefBuf(25) DefBuf(27) DefBuf(29)
24) --> Hasten==> Rechg(24) Rechg(33) Rechg(34)
26) --> Icicles==> EndRdx(26) Acc(33) Acc(33) Dmg(34) Dmg(36) Dmg(40)
28) --> Energy Absorbtion==> DefBuf(28) DefBuf(29) DefBuf(31) Rechg(31) Rechg(36) Rechg(36)
30) --> Fire Sword Circle==> EndRdx(30) Acc(31) Dmg(34) Dmg(37) Dmg(37) Rechg(37)
32) --> Aid Other==> IntRdx(32)
35) --> Incinerate==> EndRdx(35) Acc(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(42) Dmg(43) Rechg(43)
38) --> Greater Fire Sword==> EndRdx(38) Acc(39) Dmg(40) Dmg(40) Dmg(42) Rechg(42)
41) --> Aid Self==> IntRdx(41) IntRdx(43) IntRdx(46) Heal(46) Heal(48) Heal(48)
44) --> Char==> EndRdx(44) Acc(45) Hold(45) Hold(45) Hold(46)
47) --> Build Up==> Rechg(47) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
49) --> Hibernate==> Rechg(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Run(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
01) --> Power Slide==> Empty(1)
---------------------------------------------

Tanking is not just about taking damage - it doesn't matter how much damage you can take if you can't manage aggro properly.

Many a time has a Stone Tanker in Granite Armour stood proud as they survive insurmountable odds while the rest of their team start the long trek back from hospital.

Don't expect to be able to tank much better than any other AT until you get SOs. Pre-GDN, it was possible to be up and running as a tanker by the time you hit Lv10 (At least with some primaries), but now the DEF/RES values are low enough that until you're fully slotted with SOs, your defences are almost negligible and your only real advantage is your extra HP.

I still don't like Hibernate; I won't argue that it's a superb survivability tool, but if, as you suggested, you needed to spend 1/3 of a protracted battle in Hibernate, the rest of your team would almost certainly be dead.

With Hibernate active, you have no aggro control other than what was running at the point you activated it. 30 seconds of no Taunt, taunt aura or punch-voke and none of the mobs will have even a passing interest in you.

On the other hand, if you team is capable of surviving while you sit in Hibernate (usually without forewarning), then you have to wonder if they really need you in the team at all.

[ QUOTE ]
Pre-Issue 7, I presume?. Things are mighty different for defence these days. Back before scaling defence, Ice tanks truly where gimp tastic.

[/ QUOTE ]

You say that, but it's not entirely true. Ice Armour was just as good as the other Tanker sets pre-I5 as long as you weren't fighting anything that was more than +2 to you.

Since the various attempts to fix the defence scaling problem have been introduced, Ice is significantly more survivable, but it can still suffer from bad luck. One day you can tank an entire room, the next you get wiped out by the alpha strike from one group - C'est la vie.

My attitude towards tanking can be summed up in 4 letters: FIFO.

First In, First Out; a good tanker should always go down with his ship.

You go in, you gain control of the mobs, you team moves in, the mobs die, you move on. If things go pear shaped, you do everything you can to allow the rest of your team to escape - if needs be, you keep on tanking the mobs until your team returns from the hospital and regroups.

In short, you cannot be afraid of debt. On no account should you ever run from a mob while your team is still engaging them. Your over-riding duty is to keep your team alive, no matter how suicidal they might be (within reason - sometimes they just deserve it).

People who refuse to run their armours because "they use too much endurance" are bad tankers.
People who play like scrappers are bad tankers.
People who run from mob to mob aggroing everything they can are bad tankers.
And people who get their team killed because they can't manage the aggro are bad tankers.

For those of a whinging disposition, please note the differentiation betweeen tanker and player in the above paragraph.

Tanking isn't flashy, it isn't galmorous and people will rarely thank you for your "good tanking", but that doesn't make it any less important or rewarding.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
try dark/ea its brilliant, i liked it and i'm sure u will 2

[/ QUOTE ]

But rather bad for teaming. No taunt aura, not many AoE attacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well technically, no AoE attacks.

You've got Soul Drain and Dark Consumption, but neither are really "attacks"; any damage they do is pretty much coincidental. Shadow Maul is a cone, but you'll never really get more than 3 or 4 mobs in it at once.

It can be a real pain, but you tend to get used to it - you don't get AoEs, but you get fairly high damage single target attacks in a reasonably unresisted damage type along with ToHit debuffs as an auto-hit secondary effect.

Firey Melee is the outright best for AoE attacks.

Dark/EA is very nice as far as /EA combos go. You get the 5% ToHit Debuff from every attack, plus the 10% ToHit Debuff from Touch of Fear, which is a really handy effective Defence boost. You also get Dark Consumption, Energy Drain *and* Conserver Power, meaning that Stamina just isn't worth taking. Finally, you get a small self heal in Siphon Life, which can be used as part of your attack chain to keep your health topped up.

Here's my Dark/EA build, currently level 43. He's quite susceptible to bad luck, but he's still more than capable of holding his own solo or in teams on any difficulty level:

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Daps
Level: 50
Archetype: Brute
Primary: Dark Melee
Secondary: Energy Aura
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Shadow Punch==> EndRdx(1) Acc(3) Acc(3)
01) --> Kinetic Shield==> EndRdx(1) DefBuf(7) DefBuf(9) DefBuf(9)
02) --> Smite==> EndRdx(2) Acc(5) Acc(11) Dmg(11) Dmg(13)
04) --> Power Shield==> EndRdx(4) DefBuf(5) DefBuf(7) DefBuf(15)
06) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(6)
08) --> Shadow Maul==> EndRdx(8) Acc(13) Acc(15) Dmg(17) Dmg(17) Rechg(19)
10) --> Entropy Shield==> EndRdx(10)
12) --> Aid Other==> IntRdx(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Hasten==> Rechg(16) Rechg(21) Rechg(23)
18) --> Dark Consumption==> Acc(18) Rechg(19) Rechg(23) Rechg(25)
20) --> Energy Cloak==> EndRdx(20) DefBuf(21) DefBuf(27) DefBuf(31)
22) --> Siphon Life==> EndRdx(22) Acc(29) Acc(29) Heal(31) Heal(33) Heal(33)
24) --> Aid Self==> IntRdx(24) IntRdx(25) Heal(31) Heal(34) Heal(34)
26) --> Soul Drain==> Acc(26) Acc(27) Rechg(33) Rechg(36) Rechg(36)
28) --> Energy Drain==> EndRdx(28) EndMod(36) EndMod(37) Rechg(37) Rechg(39) Rechg(39)
30) --> Touch of Fear==> Acc(30) Fear(34) Fear(43) Fear(45)
32) --> Midnight Grasp==> EndRdx(32) Acc(37) Acc(39) Dmg(40) Dmg(40) Rechg(42)
35) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(35) Rechg(40) Rechg(42)
38) --> Overload==> Heal(38) Heal(42) Heal(43) Rechg(43) Rechg(45) Rechg(45)
41) --> Gloom==> EndRdx(41) Acc(46) Acc(46)
44) --> Soul Tentacles==> EndRdx(44) Acc(46) Acc(50)
47) --> Summon Widow==> Acc(47) Acc(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
49) --> Super Speed==> EndRdx(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Power Slide==> Empty(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Fury==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------

[ QUOTE ]
ah just wait till the joyous day when you've been happily beating up bad guys, charge into some nemesis and some fool snipes one of the lieutenants you'd been saving till the end.

all of a sudden vengeance kicks in on the whole mob, and you may as well just turn off your shields and lie down.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, what's fun is when some fool kills multiple lieutenants in and around the same mob. I think 5 stacked Vengeances is my record.

Hasten is very handy from a Hoarfrost/Energy Absorption/Hibernate perspective, as well as your attacks.

If you don't mind dropping Hibernate then Aid Self is the better choice from that and Tough (And Boxing is better than Kick).

Permafrost is a waste of time unless you're going to be doing a lot of PvP or spending all your time tanking Infernal.

As for the final choice - you could take SS (if you go the Hasten Route) for another travel power (+stealth if you ever want it) or you could take something like Stimulant, Aid Other, Assault, Recall Friend - generally I try and go for powers that don't need slotting when looking for "filler" so that I don't have to waste slots on them.

Then again, if you don't have Incinerate I'd highly recommend it if you can spare some slots for it.

[ QUOTE ]
Cool, sounding great. Another 10 or so lvls to go then.

Can't wait, dam mit... must ... play.... must... lvl..... must be .... invincible!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh you will be invincible - until your luck runs out. The other night I was tanking a large room of Purple Rikti and managed to survive an otherwise complete team wipe and keep going long enough solo for everyone to get back from hospital. I then ran into the next mob and was essentially one-shotted by the alpha strike.

It's not quite as "bad" as it was Pre-I5, but it is still very much survival by a roll of the dice

The key to Brutes is stamina (With a small S). Fury drops off very quickly, so you can't afford to pause for breath and you want your attacks cycling quickly. So, if you can manage to keep your endurance steady (Shouldn't be hard with DM/Elec) and you have a continuous attack chain (Which can be a challenge with DM) then use any spare slots for damage.

Most of my attacks (DM/EA) are slotted with 1 End Red, 2 Acc and then either 2 Dmg & 1 Rchg or 1 Dmg & 2 Rchg depending on the power.

Well, I can easily hold an aggro cap's worth of mobs on me with very little effort as long as they're fairly close to me. If mobs start to get scattered then it can be a bit more challenging, but by and large it's managable.

That said, as an Ice tank I've got both Icicles & Chilling Embrace running continuously, which makes it nigh-impossible for anything to pull mobs off me without a taunt of their own.

Remember that 50% of aggro management is controlling the mobs, the other 50% is controlling your team. If you've got people scattering mobs left, right and centre, then no amount of taunting will allow you to keep all of them under your control.

[ QUOTE ]
DOes anyone have a linky to gauntlet / aura changes. I read somewhere that auras will have to pass a "to hit" roll at -20% accuracy to keep a AV interested.

If this is the case, I cant see taunt being anything other than invaluable im afraid.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is the case then Ice/Invuln will have a massive advantage over Fire/Stone as the "tick rate" of their auras is much higher, resulting in a much higher chance of hitting the AV before the previous taunt wears off.

My DM/EA - not PvP vetted I'm afraid:

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
---------------------------------------------
Name: Daps
Level: 50
Archetype: Brute
Primary: Dark Melee
Secondary: Energy Aura
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Shadow Punch==> EndRdx(1) Acc(3) Acc(3) Dmg(5)
01) --> Kinetic Shield==> EndRdx(1) DefBuf(7) DefBuf(9) DefBuf(9)
02) --> Smite==> EndRdx(2) Acc(5) Acc(11) Dmg(11) Dmg(13) Taunt(45)
04) --> Power Shield==> EndRdx(4) DefBuf(7) DefBuf(15) DefBuf(15)
06) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(6)
08) --> Shadow Maul==> EndRdx(8) Acc(13) Acc(17) Dmg(17) Rechg(19) Rechg(19)
10) --> Entropy Shield==> EndRdx(10)
12) --> Stimulant==> EndRdx(12)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Hasten==> Rechg(16) Rechg(21) Rechg(23)
18) --> Dark Consumption==> Acc(18) Rechg(23) Rechg(25) Rechg(25)
20) --> Energy Cloak==> EndRdx(20) DefBuf(21) DefBuf(27) DefBuf(27)
22) --> Siphon Life==> EndRdx(22) Acc(29) Acc(29) Heal(31) Heal(33) Heal(33)
24) --> Aid Self==> IntRdx(24) IntRdx(31) IntRdx(34) Heal(34) Heal(34) Heal(36)
26) --> Soul Drain==> Acc(26) Rechg(31) Rechg(33) Rechg(36)
28) --> Energy Drain==> EndRdx(28) Rechg(36) Rechg(37) Rechg(37) EndMod(39) EndMod(39)
30) --> Touch of Fear==> Acc(30)
32) --> Midnight Grasp==> EndRdx(32) Acc(37) Acc(39) Dmg(40) Taunt(40) Taunt(42)
35) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(35) Rechg(40) Rechg(42)
38) --> Overload==> Heal(38) Heal(42) Heal(43) Rechg(43) Rechg(45) Rechg(45)
41) --> Soul Tentacles==> Acc(41) Acc(43)
44) --> Dark Obliteration==> Acc(44) Acc(46) Dmg(46) Dmg(46) Dmg(50)
47) --> Summon Widow==> Acc(47) Acc(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
49) --> Super Speed==> EndRdx(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Power Slide==> Empty(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Fury==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

Nebulous Form != Quantum Flight

The Warshade Power simply switches off after 45 seconds, rather than the progressive end-increase of the Peacebringer version.

I still hate the fact that the devs nerfed our secondary travel powers because of a perceived PvP exploit that isn't even an exploit while claiming that they couldn't adjust powers purely for PvP when they clearly can.

[ QUOTE ]
Keep 4 defense insps running as much as you can and concentrate on dealing damage. Otherwise I guess its down to whittling his hp down in dwarf form. I admit I havent tried myself. My lvl 50 tank soloed snaptooth on heroic but it took forever and a day.

[/ QUOTE ]

I soloed Snaptooth 5 times with Spad on Unyielding without any real trouble - only took me a couple of minutes to down him too. Self-heals were handy though for when he did land a big hit.

I could probably do it with my Warshade (Pure human form), but it wouldn't be easy. You'd need to herd up 7 mobs to get a nice kick off Eclipse and Sunless Mire and then pummell the hell out of him - with Inky Aspect, Gravitic Eminiation & the Beanbag temp power I could probably keep him semi- or even perma-disoriented.

Might give it a try tonight.

Icicles well slotted will easily outdamage all of your other attacks over the course of an evening's play.