The_Hegemon

Alright, then. It's been a while since I20 hit and I've done my best to experience the content as it's been designed. I can honestly say that I've given the trial experience the old college try, and it's panned out pretty much how I assumed that it would.

The trials can be fun, but in my opinion, they stop being fun and start being work long before you can accumulate enough loot to get to kit out one character with T3s. I still think that the endgame system is a massive grind as it currently exists.

I play on two servers (Pinnacle and Virtue), and I've been splitting my time between two different characters so that I can have one Incarnate on either of these servers. My aim here was to have one on each of my homes so that if and when more Incarnate TFs, story arcs, and/or zones appear, I can play with my friends on either of them. My goals were, I think, modest ones - I wanted to get to T3 on Judgment, Interface, and Destiny for those two characters. I was content to leave Lore empty, because I didn't care for the boost and don't want to spend the threads just to get another Incarnate shifts for trials yet.

Anyway, I won't deny that I had fun on a few of these. They can be a blast. The Sabotage phase of the Lambda Sector trial is just the right amount of frantic fun, especially if you're on a team of smart people whose builds can just barely handle it. Unfortunately, the third phase - the 'beg your team to turn their brains on and use the Molecular Acids' phase - is almost always frustrating in a league populated with strangers. The BAF was fun at the beginning of the issue, but as it is the easier of the two trials and can only be run with a large league, it has since become entirely automated. Probably around three quarters of the trial runs I've performed have been BAFs because it's much easier to get on teams for them. For the last five days, they have all gone off like clockwork - everyone gets in, pulls the AV to the tennis court, splits for the doors when she goes down, pulls the other AV to the courts, then mows down the pair of them for the win. Profit. Rinse and repeat for as many times as you can stand it - for me, this is usually around two or three times. In each BAF run, the vast majority of participants (myself included) never says a word in league chat. From now on, I have no doubt that BAF runs where I actually have to think about what I'm doing will be the exception and not the rule.

This was bound to happen. The incentives to run these into the ground are powerful, and the functional strategies were both consistent and simple to grasp. As predicted, failures have become far less frequent as time has passed. Indeed, I'd say that on the BAF, they're now downright rare. But running these became an absolute chore.

This weekend, I finally finished. I got to T3 on those three boosts on both of my characters, and I rejoiced. "I did it!" I said. "Oh, thank Hequat, it's over! At last, I have all of my food pellets and can get off the hamster wheel. I can finally stop farming these. I don't have to run any more of these trials! Hooray!" It then struck me that this was not a particularly good thing for me to be feeling as far as the endgame system is concerned. Frankly, I have no idea how some players were able to run enough of these to reach the fourth tier boost on all four of the new slots. I simply don't have the patience or endurance to grind any more of these for at least another month. If I never have to run another BAF again, I'll be happy - though if my friends ask, I might be convinced to queue up for a Lambda, because that one can be done with a team of eight and is more consistently active and entertaining.

::ahem::

Okay, I'm exaggerating. I probably will end up running more of these if and when the siren's song of the Incarnate slots starts calling to some of my other characters. But I'm hoping that when that happens, there are either other trials to run, or ways to earn threads outside the trials at a rate that isn't absolutely horrible. I'm pretty disappointed in the way the rewards system is currently structured.

I just want some variety in the tasks I have to perform in order to participate in the Incarnate system. The trials are fun enough for me to want to repeat them a few times per character, but my experience was that the fun ran out long before I'd even unlocked all my slots on the two characters I was participating with. They really need to add more ways to earn threads - options are good things and it'd be great if we had more of them. I don't know why the developers suddenly decided that these two new trials should be the only viable ways to progress in the system, especially when they already have so many quality gameplay options for level 50 characters in the game. Is there some reason why trials have to be the only viable path to Judgment, Interface, Lore, and Destiny?

Yes, I know they're adding new trials. I can't comment on those because they don't exist yet. I can only offer feedback on what's playable now. Still, I doubt that they will do much to alleviate the Skinner Box feel of the rewards system.

Again, I feel that this is a disappointing step for the game. I pretty much hate the rewards system as it currently exists, and I hope trial-grinding for shinies is not the sole method for earning future slots. I don't think I'm alone in my opinion and I have confidence that future issues will compromise on this.

(I'm sorry that this post is only partly related to this discussion thread. But there are already a million of these threads on this forum and I didn't want to add another one just for my feedback.)

This thread makes me see patterns that probably aren't there. I think I'll burn an offering to the RNGs before my next run.

Adding my anecdotes to the fray:

I have two characters that I'm running Incarnate stuff on for now - a Fire/Fire/Fire Dominator, and a Fire/EM/Fire Blaster. The two characters are different ATs, yet they tend to play pretty much the same. Both are AoE heavy characters. The Blaster's burst AoE is significantly higher, but the Dom is able to sustain it at a high rate forever thanks to more AoE powers and a much higher recharge.

Anyway, I try to get on two or three trials a night, sometimes more if I'm on a good team farming BAFs. Just want to strike while the iron's hot, because I am in a weird timezone and anticipate greater difficulty getting on a league to run these once most of the community gets their shinies.

My Blaster has had amazing luck with these. Rares almost every run, to the point where I have all of the rare salvage I need for the character's build - one T4 slot, the rest T3, so 5 total. I just melt down all the rares I've gotten since for the threads. Even got a lucky Very Rare salvage drop on a Lambda she was on, which is the only reason I decided to shoot for T4 on her Judgment in the first place - the only thing holding me back from a full kit at this point is accumulating the necessary commons and unlocking my last slot. I expect I'll get there in a few more days, and then I'll finally be able to chill out on these.

My Dom is a different story. So far, all of her drops have been 10-threads, Common, or Uncommon. Mostly Uncommon. She's got two slots unlocked at this point, uncommons in both, and she's got threads up to her eyeballs. Again, I'm going to stick to T3s unless I get a lucky drop. So far, no dice. I feel spoiled by my Blaster.

(Both of these characters have done roughly the same number of runs - around 12-15 of them, at a guess. Maybe the Blaster's done around 20.)

Anyway, I know that the plural of 'Anecdote' is not 'Data,' but damn if it doesn't make my tin foil hat itch.

Maybe the Devs hate villains?

I sympathize with your friend. I've felt that way myself since I18 first came out, and that feeling intensified somewhat after I completed my first trial in I20.

Remind him that the developers have a generally decent track record and are usually pretty good at taking the community's temperature with these things. I think they will eventually compromise and make the Incarnate Rewards a bit more accessible to players who aren't interested in farming the trials, though it may not happen for another issue or two.

Ultimately, I've found that a break is the best cure for burnout. Sometimes, you just need to take some time off. Keep in touch and he just might return, and sooner than you expect.

I just got off what was probably the most frustrating Lambda Sector trial I've ever been on.

We absolutely destroyed the Sabotage part. We cleaned up all the Grenades, and the Acids hit ten out of ten just seconds later. We had a full five minutes left on the clock when Marauder showed up. We were doing great!

"Awesome," I say to myself. "We have this in the bag. We can start fighting Marauder right away, and we'll have this thing wrapped up within ten minutes."

When we all get outside, the League Leader gives the order to close those reinforcement gates. The people on our teams zip about and start closing the gates.

Five of them go down. Five are still up.

"Okay, guys, check your temp powers. Who has the last Molecular Acid?" asks the League Leader. Silence in the channel.

That's right. We scored ten acids in the Sabotage run, and at least one of our teammates refused to use them. Five of them. They were smart enough to run around using their powers and helping out, but for whatever reason, they were unwilling or unable to check their temps and see if they had a Molecular Acid. Maybe they didn't know they had the acids to use. Maybe they couldn't read English and didn't know what we were begging them to do in the channel. Maybe they were actively griefing the team, chuckling the whole time as they watched the mobs pile up around Marauder. I don't know.

We managed to pull Defeat from the jaws of Victory and fail the trial, despite going ten for ten on both collection tasks in the second phase.

But the thing is, this isn't the first time this has happened to me, though it is the first time it's affected the outcome of the run so dramatically. I almost expect it whenever I run a Lambda, because I have yet to be on one where we don't have at least one Acid Holdout.

Is there any reason why we can't have some indicator on the league menu to tell us - or, at the very least, the League Leader - who has the mission-critical temporary powers? This trial would be so much better and less frustrating if we knew who was hoarding the Molecular Acid temps. Maybe they would wake up if we could have addressed them by name in the chat window. At the very least, it would let me know who to put on my ignore list for future events.

Pretty please?

I don't agree with the premises here. That Judgment powers are really good and have no drawbacks isn't a compelling reason to buff nukes.

This is a false dichotomy. Nukes and Judgment Powers aren't an either/or kind of thing. You can take both, and you can even use both at the same time.

Nukes also have a few significant advantages over Judgment that are worth mentioning. First, you get them at 32 and have access to them so long as you don't exemplar below 27. They are also enhanceable. Yes, Judgment powers do more damage than many nukes, but only if you don't slot them. Most importantly, Nukes are affected by Aim/Build Up and other player buffs. If you're at the damage cap, Nukes do silly damage, but Judgment always puts out the same amount of (admittedly high) pain unless debuffs are applied.

You could argue that Judgment is better and generally more useful. You might even be right. After all, it's an 'every time it's up' sort of power because it doesn't have a crash, and its 90 second recharge seems lightning fast compared to classical nukes like Inferno. In a lot of situations, it is better. But it doesn't make classical nukes obsolete, IMO.

That Judgment allows everyone to step on a Blaster's toes a bit might be the case and could be cause for concern, but I'm not sure this is a good reason to give in to power creep. Personally, I like having two powers that do nuke-level damage and couldn't imagine dropping Inferno on my Blaster.

Now, I wouldn't necessarily oppose removing the full crash from the Blaster nukes, but I don't see what this has to do with Judgment being incredibly good. Especially since you can take both.

Fire/Fire/Fire Dom here.

This is the only character in my stable that I spared no expense in building. She's had a number of various incarnations since I got her to 50, improving drastically each time. I've had her at peak level for a couple of years, now, and then they went and gave her access to Fireball, Rain of Fire, and Rise of the Phoenix.

Now, she's got permadom without Hasten, just over 200% recharge when Hasten is up. She does ridiculous damage, has excellent control, and is an unstoppable goddess of pain if someone casts a buff or two in her direction. She can permahold and solo AVs through the purple triangles. She can do a whole lot of things, really, except survive for very long if I miss one of my controls. But that's what RotP is for.

When I get around to running some trials with her, I can't wait to see how much chaos is unleashed when I snag her Reactive Interface Fire DoT and Pyronic Judgment.

I did this on my Fire/EM Blaster once the Alpha slot came out. Having that extra reach from the Cardiac boost to stack with Boost Range and a bit of range slotting in some key powers makes a big difference. Fire Breath became totally insane - it's easy to fit an entire spawn into the cone width, now. I also find it's quite effective on the new Incarnate Trials - +3 IDF can rip me apart in no time at all, and being able to throw Fire Blast, Flares, and Blaze from far away means I can take out Containment Pods/Weapons Crates with relative speed and from a position of relative safety while a melee type keeps the small spawn busy. When we move on, I can drop aggro very quickly.

I quite enjoy it, to the point where I don't know if I could really get into a Blaster that didn't have access to Boost Range. I feel like EM has spoiled me.

Enjoy, OP!

I'd like to weigh in on this thread briefly, just because this issue bothers me quite a lot.

First, I think many of the replies suggesting that the content will become easier over time as new tactics disperse throughout the PuG hivemind and new boosts fall into the hands of Incarnate characters are spot on. We know from experience (ITF, STF, LGTF, etc.) that this is true.

I think the trials are well-designed, for the most part. Except for the temp powers with the Lambda trial - I hate that they're issued randomly. The other night, I was on two different runs where we did quite well in the sabotage bit (8/10 and 9/10 acids, hooray!), only to have a mere five portals go dark when the next phase started because some idiot liked the look of the molecular acid in their power tray too much to throw it away on a random reinforcement gate. At the very least, there should be some indication of who has what temp powers when the Marauder encounter begins in order to help coordinate this part, if only so I can know who I need to nag. But that's a rant for another time.

What irritates me most about I20 is the tunnel-vision focus on the trials as the sole source of Incarnate advancement. Yes, it's a grind. If you want to advance in the system, you need to farm the hell out of these trials.

It takes around three successful runs to unlock a slot, and perhaps more if you fail the trial. That's a minimum of 12 trial runs per character to unlock the slot, without putting anything into them.

My complaint here isn't 'It takes a long time to unlock the slots and I want my rewards NOW! Why can't I get my very rare in an afternoon?' Really, it isn't. It's supposed to take a long time. I accept that. Rather, my beef here is that 12 (at a minimum) is a lot of times to run the same thing over and over again. They had it right with the Alpha slot. You could advance a little bit just by playing the game normally. Sure, there are more efficient ways to go about getting shards - teaming is faster than soloing, endgame TFs are faster still, and going out of your way to run the WST is even faster than that. If you make a point to farm for shards, you will earn them faster. But it's optional. You can still become an Incarnate by playing normally.

Now, farming and grinding is pretty much mandatory if you want to advance in the incarnate system.

They did add the shards-to-threads conversion and a thread reward for the Tin Mage and Apex TFs, yes, but this is a tacked-on technicality. If you want to unlock a single slot, you would need to run these TFs 15-23 times depending on what slot you're trying to access. Or you would need to spend what would ordinarily be enough shards to slot the Uncommon alpha boost. Unlocking the slot and putting a common boost in it would cost 90 shards, 45 Tin Mage/Apex runs, or some combination of both.

In other words, it's technically possible, but it's so inefficient that it's pretty much never going to happen naturally.

You'd have to farm for it. And any player willing to farm is just going to run the trials, unless they have some weird grudge against trial content and absolutely refuse to run any. With that kind of effort, you could have all your very rares if you'd spent the time grinding Lambdas instead of Apex.

In I20, they added a bunch of cool, well-designed, and varied advancement options that are certainly worth the time to chase. Then, they erected a Great Wall of Grind around the Incarnate community to keep out anyone unwilling to grind the trials repeatedly. I feel like this is a strange departure from Paragon Studios' normal operating methods - they usually go to great lengths to limit farming. This time, they embraced it. I don't think this is a positive thing.

Don't get me wrong. I like the trials well enough, and the experience of them is fun for now, but the shine is going to wear off long before I've unlocked all my slots and put common boosts in everything on one character.

I haven't been this disappointed with an issue in a while. Ever, maybe.

Depends on a couple of judgement calls for me. I lean toward 'cool,' but performance isn't irrelevant to me, either. A lot depends on whether or not other people in the gameworld get the same choice.

Can I have a decently competitive character if I skipped the Power option? Would my character be considered gimped by the choice? Would I feel gimp compared to other players? Would my choosing Cool instead of Power affect my ability to run challenging content? Would I be passed over for teams for skipping the Power option?

Is the Cool power a bad power? Does the Cool power pick have no other redeeming features other than its coolness (Whirlwind, I'm looking at you), or does it have real use? Is it less effective than similar powers of its type but still functional, like Propel and Hail of Bullets?

If I'm making the choice for the whole game - as in, I get to choose one power to add to the game for everyone, and the choice is between a power that is cool or a power that provides a high performance boost - I'd choose Cool over Powerful. If everyone got to make the choice individually... it'd be a much harder decision and would depend on many subjective factors.

Aw, who am I kidding? I would pick Powerful, but would then whine on the Forums that Cool should be a viable option.

Thank you for the responses.

Hello Architects.

I'm writing an MA arc for my supergroup to play through - just a one-off story tailored specifically for the group. I'm comfortable enough with the tools to use them properly and get it done, but I did have some specific questions that I could use quick answers to. I haven't used the system at all since shortly after it first came out, and some things have changed a bit while I wasn't looking. I apologize if the answers seem obvious. I couldn't find them with simple searches.

- Am I able to use the Portal Corp. Courtyard map in my arc? If so, what category would I find it under? If not, are there any Portal Corp themed maps available at all?

- Am I able to use the WarWorks or the IDF enemy groups in my mission arc?

Thanks in advance.

It depends on the Blaster, I guess.

My Blaster is Fire/EM, and I built her under the assumption that I didn't want to spend too much, and that I would team with her as much as possible.

When I was designing her IO build, I focused on getting the powers I wanted and giving them decent enhancement values before worrying about bonuses. I built for moderate defense and recharge values, too, but I made up my mind not to make any sacrifices on the base values just to squeeze in more recharge or ranged defense. The amount of recharge I gave her is enough to be significant - around 60% or so. She's also got over 20% defense to Ranged, which isn't a lot to write home about by itself, but it becomes incredibly useful on teams, where there are likely to be ally defense buffs or friends to take the aggro.

I used many uncommon sets to accomplish this goal - 6 Thunderstrikes in my three ST blasts, 5 Crushing Impacts in my melee attacks for the recharge, accuracy, and HP. I used five slots of Positron's Blast (all but the proc) in my targeted AoEs for the recharge and accuracy, and I used the sixth slot to round out the enhancement values because that set has terrible recharge values. I used 3-4 Eradications in my PBAoEs - two sets, because I slotted Rise of the Phoenix like an attack. I used the Steadfast unique in my resistance shield.

I used the Cardiac alpha boost, because it gives me essentially limitless endurance (even after I specced into Leadership) and also a nice boost to the range of all my powers. The fact that I'm Energy Manipulation means that I can stack Boost Range with this for absurd reach on my attacks, and this is especially orgasmic with Fire Breath.

Results were quite excellent. The character is dangerous and pretty survivable for a Blaster, and the build didn't break the bank. If I need to build a Blaster again in the future, I'd definitely stick to the same principles - go for broad, moderate bonuses to recharge, ranged defense, and HP, don't sacrifice too much for any one aspect of the build and don't bother with procs.

If I were building a solo-focused build, I might have done things a little differently, though.

Any character with Group Teleport and Phase Shift.

Ask if the team is ready. If you get no response within five seconds, use group teleport to force the team to get into the action. Surprise! Then, phase shift and type /e teabag. Watch how quickly you get kicked.

You could also be Grav/Kin and use Wormhole a lot, and also throw lots of Increase Density around without applying SB.

I actually went with Endurance on my Blaster (Fire/EM, full IO build).

I don't like the idea of intentionally leaving a hole in Damage, Recharge, or Accuracy in my build in case I decide to exemplar, so any bonus had to be tacked on to my well-rounded IO build. Therefore, I'd only really get use out of the Damage or Recharge boosts if and when I got them to Rare or Ultra Rare status and a significant chunk of the boosts weren't affected by ED.

Endurance isn't that great for me, either. I don't have endurance issues on this character. Range, however, is fantastic. With a little bit of range in my slotting on certain powers, Boost Range, and the End/Range Alpha Boost, my Fire Breath has become a death cone. It's trivial to hit the target cap with it. I can also throw Fireball from extremely far away. It's pretty neat.

Plus, I'd just respecced into Leadership for lack of other things in my Primary, Secondary, or Epic to take, and the End boost allowed me to compensate for having those extra toggles and then some. I simply don't run out of endurance in natural gameplay conditions... unless I use Inferno, that is.

I'll say 8 or 9 for Pools/Epics. If you've changed your primary or secondary powers to fit a theme, having your epics forced to the default color scheme despite being along the same theme sort of scuppers it. I want Incarnates before I want pool customization, but care about pool customization more than I care about basically everything else, including more Praetoria content.

3 for Kheldians, though. Their backstories are far more limited than the normal ATs, and their colors are somewhat tied to that. If it did happen, though, I'd offer no real objection.

I really like my True Nukes and tend to take them on basically any character that has access to them. I don't find the crash to be all that crippling. It can be mitigated with a Catch A Breath or two.

I get why some people prefer the mini-nukes, but I like my Nuke powers to be flashy, spectacular, and situational.