The_Demon_Hunter

I said the same thing when I got into Beta. Then I was told that they had already toned it down considerably.

A disturbing thought if it is indeed true.

If you have the right tables, make sure that you select the option to "Show Recipes Missing Ingredients" when you open the crafting window

/signed

Along with everything else shiny and new they made for Praetoria. Some of that stuff would make for fantastic tech bases. Would especially love to see some way of having some of those wall textures in bases.

That's certainly not my intent at all, Kat, unless you have some objection to people being told to do mishes? I hope this is just a miscommunication or misunderstanding of what you're saying. >.>

From what I can tell, you'd get the same Prestige gains from doing other content for the same duration, Kat. It's not like the only way to get the same amount of Prestige is to do TFs only. I gave the TFs as examples because its a set number of mishes and tasks, and it gave me that amount of Prestige. Tips, Story Arcs, AE -- it doesn't really matter. Story Arcs and TFs still give completion bonuses I think, so there might be some extra gains there, but overall, its pretty straightforward.

Basically, all I'm saying in giving these numbers is reiterating what I've been saying, which is "just play the game and you'll earn the stuff you're after."

This isn't like Recipes or Salvage or anything other kind of drop, where it's a random number generator that determines what you get. It's not a situation where you're playing the market and need to bid for Prestige. It's just "go beat up the enemy" and get the predetermined amount of Prestige for each enemy you defeat. It doesn't get much easier than that. And you can even choose what enemies you want to face, depending on what you and your teammates are strongest against.

I mean.... is that really a slippery slope kinda thing here?

I was the one who gave that amount, after running a Manticore TF with my Mastermind. It was the only thing he'd done since coming to blue side to join one of my alt SGs. That was his approximate Prestige total (rounded down to the nearest thousand actually). It was a non-speed run, and we didn't stealth any mishes.

Later in the week I used my stalker for Manticore, and even stealthing where we could, I generated 13K in that TF for my personal SG (again, rounded down to the nearest thousand).

It bothers me when incorrect information is presented as fact to back up one's arguments, so I looked around the boards for an old thread. I'm willing to chalk it up to a lapse in memory for you. Here's a link to the changes in Base Costs for issue 13.

Look through and you'll see that the 2x2 Energy Terminal room dropped from 150K to 100K. The Basic Generator dropped from 225K to 200K. The Mainframe dropped from 150K to 50K. Databases dropped from 106K to 50K. Terminals dropped from 30K to 10K. With the exception of the Basic Generator itself, those Tier 1 upgrades from the combo unit dropped by no less than 33% of their previous price, and in the case of most Tier 1 Control Main and Aux items, the cost dropped anywhere from 50%-66%.

So yes, the Tier 1 upgrades from the combo unit and the rooms needed for them were dropped in price by a rather significant margin in Issue 13. As I said before, we're not in the Dark Ages of pre-i13 base costs. To say that the devs failed to address this at all is a bit misleading.

Let's clarify here.... according to what you said here, you think my view is because you think it isn't personally applicable to me? Thank you. As someone who has nothing but small groups (I believe eleven players in total at our peak, for a period of a few months more than a year ago, is still relatively small), I got a good laugh from that.

We have three bases that are fully functional and four that aren't. It would be nice to have all the stuff for those other bases that exists in the first three, but at the same time we recognize that none of those groups are active enough to justify saying they've done enough to earn more functionality than they have now. None of those alt groups have done enough to actually earn that stuff, in my eyes or the eyes of the other members. And that's with the lower costs post-i13.

lol Yes, generally speaking it does imply that to me as well.

Personally, I've found that people who are just looking for shiny stuff and can be lured away by it aren't the ones you're going to want in your tiny SG to begin with. Most small SGs would be collections of players who gravitate together because of camaraderie, RL connections, shared teaming experiences, RP, etc. And if that's the boat you're in, why are you chasing after people who just want a SG that has a "base with all the amenities" in the first place?

The problem is that there will always be a hump to get over to get that next level of functionality to bases. Look at the cost difference in going from the basic generator to the Turbine Generator (or the Arcane equivalents). There's no real difference in going from the basic start up units to going to those second tier units. Yet for blue side to have all beacons, full storage, and medical facilities, the first tier units are quickly outgrown.

Does this mean you think we should be lobbying for additional base items to make that transition as easy as you're looking to make the transition from bare essentials to what many of you are calling a functional base?

Again, I think it's a matter of growth for a SG to reach certain levels of functionality together. Let the members learn to set goals. Plan out what they want in their bases and let them earn these things over a month or two of basic gameplay or utilize the market to generate inf to convert like Fulmens would advocate.

FWIW I'll always advocate spending that inf first on toons to make the battles (and by result, Prestige-gathering) quicker and easier for you and your team, and then (and only then) consider converting inf to Prestige for "special buys" only. That's another argument for another time though, and one I've already had too many times to count in threads on this board.

I believe they did this in order to attempt some kind of balance with Khelds, which don't have any epics available. Not saying I agree with it, but it is what it is. Personally I would have loved to get my hands on Physical Perfection for my Widow. It is what it is though.

We're going to have to just agree to disagree here. I see no problem with small groups putting in a month or more of Prestige earning to get what they want. You feel like new stuff should be added to make it faster than that. Very different viewpoints that simply won't change. I'd rather see time devoted to adding new functionality to bases than adding more lower-tier units that really aren't needed. The stuff that already exists really isn't that expensive IMO, and I explained why I see it that way.

Actually the best advice for getting them to team with you and chip in would be to simply get them talking about what they'd like to see in your base(s). I think when we toured you saw the sewers base for Web Spinner's Amazing Friends (if not, let me know), and the amount of plot taken up by sewers was actually the idea of the other members. I told them that we'd need to work at gaining Prestige to have as much of the plot devoted to sewers as they wanted, and they jumped on board. As a result we work under the principle that no less than half of the plot is to be covered in sewers (or some other underground feature not part of the base proper).

Five of us got together with two non-SG friends tonight and ran through Numina and Manticore TFs to add to our Prestige totals and rack up badges for newly-switched toons. Took a total of about 3 hours for the two TFs. I used my stalker for Manti, and in the process I got about 13K for my personal base just for that one.

The goals we have for this batch of expansion will be to add a ruined subway station off of the sewers for Webs' base and a new meeting room with an AES for the House of Heroes. I mentioned the idea to a couple people and then it was TF time as far as they were concerned.

We do this sort of thing once, sometimes twice a week these days. We've got about eight people of varying activity at the moment, most of whom have come back for GR. With school, work, kids(!), different time zones (ranging from US East Coast to Australia), and everything else in the way though, we don't get together nearly as much as we'd like to, so we try to do as much as we can when time allows.

I figure another month, maybe two, and we'll have what we need to take care of at least one of those two base goals. If it takes longer, it takes longer. It'll be worth it in our eyes, because we've had fun playing the game together to earn the stuff we wanted.

I'd consider 8 to still be a small SG. Kinda figured that was inherent in my comment that 15K x 8 = 120K but I wasn't clear enough apparently. If that's not "small" enough, then I'd think that running mishes with your entire SG will still provide Prestige in a month if you actually plan it out and play it. Seriously its not rocket science. Make it a SG-only night thing. Might take two months instead of one if your SG is only 3 or 4 people.

My argument isn't merely "I did it so the rest of you should have to."

Pay attention again, please.

I said, it can be easily done under the current costs and setups we have now. Actually having a goal to shoot for in building your SG isn't exactly a terrible thing, you know? It's called a team-building exercise. You have the whole SG work together for one set goal. If there's 4, 6, 8 of you, etc, whatever. That's fine. You work together to get the stuff for your SG. That's what being a group is about. You work together. You build up your group. You build your base in the process.

It can be done. If you want to stay small, then your penalty isn't that you can't have all the stuff the big kids have. You just might have to wait a little longer to earn it. I don't see this as a horrible game-breaking problem for small SGs anymore. If you want it faster, recruit more people or be more active or spend inf to boost your Prestige.

A small SG should not receive additional concessions or special base gear beyond what already exists just to let them get to where the big groups are in terms of function. It's not needed. Just earning what's already there is easily done if you're willing to actually earn some Prestige. Like I said, this was a problem before i13 slashed the costs on everything. It isn't really an issue now IMO.

EDIT: Regarding the 400K a month estimate, a well built toon can run up an easy 200K on its own in a weekend. I say this from experience, using an elec/elec scrapper vs. Rikti in RWZ mishes. In 6 hours I rolled up about 200K on my own. It's not a stretch to say a team of just SG members couldn't possibly get the same result in two weeks.

Look again at what I said. Gathering that next 300-400K is easily attainable for a small group, who play once a week, in the span of just a month. With all due respect to all the small SG owners out there (and I'm one of them, believe it or not), how much easier do we need it to be? Is a month really too long to expect to wait to get the next level of base functionality for a small start-up SG?

I threw out that solo base example as a way of explaining how this system works. The Avengers and Fantastic Four, as examples, started out with nice facilities because their financial backing was from the Maria Stark Foundation and Reed Richards' patents. Same rule applies to them. The JLA originally worked out of a secret cave in Rhode Island before they were established as the premier group of the DCU and got the first satellite HQ, in the wake of their cave's hidden base being compromised.

As a base builder, I currently have seven bases that I built and maintain on Virtue. Three are fully functional. I've been in the small SG position before, and I still am.

It doesn't take much to build what you need with just a little planning, in small or solo SGs. As someone who started small (and even has a personal base), trust me, I know.

It's just a matter of setting goals and going for it IMO. Then it still feels like you've achieved something in the process. These aren't the pre-i13 Dark Ages of base costs after all.

I would disagree. The idea is that your group's level of activity determines the amount of shiny stuff you get. The more you work to get your SG's name out there by doing deeds to up your reputation, the more prestigious your SG appears to be, hence the term "Prestige" for the currency used to buy the group's stuff.

The more active your group, the more you get done, and then the more you're given license by the powers-that-be to make your base more befitting the status your heroes/villains have in the community.

For those who want a solo SG, you can have your Batcave, but keep in mind that Batman is a billionaire who can throw his personal fortune into whatever gadgets he wants for his personal base. That's how the Influence-to-Prestige conversion works (with Fulmens occasionally acting as WayneTech to push the resources higher).

You might not like the options as they exist, but they're built on examples that exist in the genre. It makes sense in the setting of a superhero world, which is good because that's the setting for the game we play.

In all seriousness, what would you specifically request be changed, to improve things so you don't feel so put out by an inability to get everything that people who play more often have? That's not meant as an insult but as a legit question to put this into perspective.

*waves away both of them, pointing to a new billboard campaign in every zone extolling the virtues of an in-base market interface*

Sure it does, under the right conditions. You just need to figure out what those conditions were to duplicate the bug. Bugs are fixed by changing lines of code to prevent the situation from occurring. Examining the code as it currently exists, and comparing to how it was before the fixes were applied, when using simple logic, could potentially provide the potential insight to duplicate this "bug" as a feature. That's kinda common sense and scientific procedure. You look to see if/how a behavior can be reproduced and what factors went into the initial situation. Dunno about where you are, but that line of scientific method problem solving is taught in the elementary schools here or at least was when I was in school.

Since the devs have stated that some of this will be their intent, I'm willing to bet they'll be examining how changes in code effect base access. If you have a pre-existing condition that has been undone, that's presumably a starting point for potential investigation of how to possibly implement the previous bug as a new feature.

Bases are currently available for use of team members of the same faction for doing single-side content. When you take away the ability of some team members to use the same facilities that are available to others in the same situation, you're restricting things beyond what they are now. That's the very definition of restriction, Snow.

I added the bold to your text myself, because with that second sentence, you're acknowledging the concept here and making my argument for me. Thanks. The last part of the above quote is because the content in each of those TFs is restricted to one zone and were implemented as the first full-time uses of co-op teaming in a time before the barriers of crossing factions were removed. If the situation is properly resolved, it could potentially allow people to actually step into their base during those TFs to stash items for later market sale when their inventories are full instead of vendoring, or allow them to use their base's inspiration storage, or use their empowerment stations -- you know, those basic functions we currently have available in every other situation for teaming in the game. Again, removing restrictions is a good thing, Snow.

Fixing this situation could allow for a greater usage of bases in situations that don't currently allow for them. It removes the current restrictions and frees up bases for more use instead of less.

I've been having the same issue the last few weeks. It seems to be random on my end as well, using Firefox. Sometimes I'm good for a couple days. Sometimes a few hours.

Ransim, thank you very much for dropping in here with the verification that such a thing is still at least potentially possible, as evidenced by your current coalition situation. I'll be very curious to see the result of your vigilante/rogue telepad experiments, as it might provide even more insight into what may or may not be possible going forward. I don't know code, so I won't speculate beyond that, but more information is always better than less information when troubleshooting any problem.

For the record, I don't see this as "us against them" where the "them" is Snow, the Devs, or anyone. This isn't some personal vendetta or an ego-driven "I have to be right" deal. It's about looking at the problem that currently exists and seeing if existing resources can be used to solve that problem by uniting players and characters instead of looking at yet another way to create a divisive atmosphere with artificial barriers that seemingly flies in the face of the expansion's dismissal of some existing barriers. The expansion shows how few clear-cut barriers exist when personal choice of individuals is brought into the equation instead of blind obedience to any set of hard and fast rules. It's all shades of grey instead of only black and white.

People always complain about the lack of uses for bases in this game. I'm bewildered about why anyone would want to restrict the use of bases further, especially if that person has been involved in the base community to begin with. Bases with telepads are an existing resource in the game. What makes the argument against using said bases even more bewildering is that instead of tweaking existing content to provide the solution, Snow would actually suggest resources be used to provide the same functionality in a new area that the devs need to design, populate, and put into place.

Optional cross-factional base usage, even if restricted solely to teammates, is something I'd think every player could get behind. There's no real reason to prevent it from being up to the discretion of the team/SG leadership. If you don't see it fitting your view of how things should work, then don't allow it, just like you can disallow teammate or coalition base entry now. The devs are apparently interested in using this idea to some unknown degree, and I view this as further progress in maintaining functional usage for bases and possibly providing more in the future.