The_Alt_oholic

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Most farmers arent asking to abuse the content, only a very small fraction, who the rest don't like anyhow. Theyre asking very reasonably for their playstyle, which tends to favor repeatable missions filled with monsters, to not be treated like its ruining the game. Most farmers agreed that comm officers needed to die a horrible death. Most farmers don't want to burn this game into the ground, but they don't want to play your "masterpieces of arc-ish literature" either.

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But you do realize that the MA was designed as a means to tell "masterpieces of arc-ish literature" and not as a power-leveling or farming-creation tool, right?

I also think you are understating to exaggerate. I don't think anyone has a problem with running a Katie Hannon or even just the Frostfire mission repeatedly to get a couple of levels. I don't even think that they are concerned - in general - if you do it a couple of times.
However, running a mission 5-10 times and not completing them, that's where I know I draw the line in what is using content versus abusing content.

The arcs/missions weren't designed to be run repeatedly - other than the task forces - but, even those, after massive repetition become a bit much for my tastes.

Just so you know in general where I stand - so you can make of my opinion what you will -, what has put me over the edge with farmers - in general - are the following things :: <ul type="square">[*]sending me tells asking me to fill[*]broadcasting in lower level zones for farmers.[*]spamming on broadcast for farm teams or more farmers in any zone[*]blind inviting to farm teams and then being suddenly dropped once the maps have been set - without a word or tell from the inviter[*]being invited to team, almost completing a mission, and "being told don't get that last X, we are farming this mission"[*]being invited to a team, arriving at the mission, zoning in, and then being told it's a farming mission[*]farming tending to go hand-in-hand with PL'ing[/list]
As you can see, that has nothing to do with having a problem with farmers slaving over what I would consider boring-repetition in order to get what they consider to be L337 gear or Uber lootage or whatever the cool, hip, cyber-y lingo you want to use for the benefits of farming.
It has to do with the behavior of farmers related to other players.

I could go into my beefs with each one, but I think most players are intelligent enough to figure out why someone wouldn't want to deal with/be put in any of those situations.

Your reply seemed to be trying to base itself in "farming". So I am keeping my reply to that.
What you mentioned in regards to "getting a couple of levels" is not power-leveling. Getting a bunch of levels through bridging, etc. is definitely PL-ing. You did not bring that up, so I am not addressing it.

[ED note :: I also definitely try avoid replying to what I consider "trolling" replies.]

All hail the Mechanical Awakening!

Be good to your techno-gremlins, ... the alternative may yield undesirable results ...

Thanks, Hellguard. I appreciate it.
Have a good one.

I thought I had read about the "60-day or lose it rule" in the markets had been revoked for active accounts some place in the forums (maybe it was "fell asleep on the keyboard" kind of thing). I had thought it had been in release notes some where or the /gmotd or something.

I tried to search for it, but I couldn't find it. I had thought it had happened with the new release, but the info wasn't there. Or I'm being blind, which can happen sometimes.

Can anyone set up a link to this info - if it is actually ... real?

Thanks.

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besides. That sorta attitude is what annoys me. "oh noes, a playerbase niche unlike mine isnt happy, too bad, hahahahahaha"

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The "Oh, no! What is wrong with me abusing the content?!" kind of attitude is what annoys me.
Well that and "The game is only cool if I can abuse the content!" attitude.

Interesting timing as the "online store" is down on the test servers.

I really haven't been dealing with the test server for a while, but all the characters that I have on "test" are also on "test 2". I had thought I might have other characters over there has it has been a dupe of Virtue for a while. I guess it changed last beta?

Ah, heck, why am I even posting. I don't care anyway.

As for the gray area, my stance is that place should have it's own currency, sg, and vaults.

But it's probably pretty clear that I'm not for all this switch over stuff. I'm also against players taking stuff with them when they go - including sg/vg's.
A thing that many people haven't brought up is the fact that characters may be starting over at level 1 if they change sides. The devs haven't said either way. I know that may come as a big shock to people, but it would definitely extend game play. [u]Become a villain and end up level 1 in Break Out with nothing, now that would really be the kick in the pants, eh?[u]

Doctor Doom had diplomatic immunity too, so you can't really use him as a point for anything. He definitely can't be trusted.

But to put this into your perspective view point if a character from the JLA suddenly went villain, they would not be allowed into the JLA headquarters any more.

From a villain point of view, what villain would be allowed back into a villain base if they had turned hero?

I'm not for all this sneaking into bases in the middle of the night and raiding all the gear and taking it to the other side business.

I feel the same way about the Markets and the Vaults.

Keep everything separate.

I too feel that the rating system is broken and there are good arc in there with ratings from 0-5 stars.

I, however, try to search out missions containing content that I am interested in playing and/or creating.

From the play point of view, it's a win if I find a good one.

From the design point of view, it is good to see what other people are doing with the kind of content I'm trying to generate.

More people are using tags. Pretty much strait up at the end of their arc explanation text to aide in search results. I strongly suggest doing this if you are creating arcs. The format I'm seeing basically [ genre topic specific includes ]. So for example [ western horror werewolf werewolves invasion silver ] or something of that nature. It takes up room in the info section, but it helps me to find the kind of arcs that I want to play.

Also, I'll be honest. I don't like "kill all"s. I start the rating of a mission at 5 and count backwards from there. A "kill all" is a -1 star as far as I'm concerned. So if you have a "kill all" in your arc, I either won't play it (if I'm not so lazy as to not look in advance) or it won't get any more than 4 stars.
"Kill All" is pretty much [u]the lamest mission criteria of all time[u] from my viewpoint and should [u]never[u] be used.

I know this is just a discussion about the "FAQ", but there are some issues that I want to put out there before this thing gets too far into development (knowing full well that it has gone quite a way already)

Here are the things that I definitely don't want to see :: <ul type="square">[*]SG High-Leader switching sides and taking the base with them.[*]Characters that go "rogue" still having access to their sg and sg base.[*]The Markets merging[*]Influence and Infamy just turning into inf. Influence is for heroic deeds, and Infamy is for dasdardly ones. Therefore, when the side switch happens, the infl or infa is lost. Time to start to build your rep from scratch.[*]The Markets, Vaults, and sg bases of the other dimension being connected to the Markets, Vaults, and sg bases of CoH or CoV[*]Players that go "rogue" still having access to their stuff in the Vault. A friend pointed out that the villains can already use the hero Vault in the Pocket D and vice-versa; however, it some how seems wrong to me that the side-switching wouldn't effect the "legality " (for lack of a better term) for giving items to a hero that was once a villain or vice-versa. So at least the Pocket D issue should be addressed.[*]How will this effect teaming? How much will this cause players to need to quit teams to keep their alignment where it is? The basic game gives you two variables - on a hero team and on a villain team. Some extended cotent adds a third - hero/villian team. This will add additional option for each giving six options - Hero-hero, hero- to villlain, Villain-Villian, Villlian- to hero, Hero/Villian - to hero, Hero/Villain- to villan. I think it will make teams harder to get and to recruit for. [*]A gray area where characters get access to both hero and villain stuff. [/list]
I know that some players are looking for the option of side switching/Fable-type game play.
I know that the DCUO will have this as part of it's game mechanics. (Characters start neutral - last thing I read...)
Champs will not have this option as it won't even have the ability to make villains (at least at the start).

I don't want to oppose something that they want that will give the game more playability and extend the life-time of the game. I'm assuming most of the cross over will happen in the other dimension and the mechanics of it won't come into play in CoH or CoV; that is to say, all the good/evil alignment-tilting missions will be there and that is where your alignment would change.

Basically, I'll sum it up with a tv ad slogan "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas".

For clarification that means, whatever you do in that alternate dimension just influences that dimension - market, sg/vg's/vault, etc. as it is an "alternate" dimension and not the same dimension. If you change sides, you lose everything except for what you have slotted and are carrying in trays (I'm not saying that players will have to start again at level 1 on the other-side once they go Rogue, but that may very well be the case...[that's not a troll, but I know it's going to start up some discussion. I'm putting it in because I just thought about it and who knows what's in the DEVs minds, and this is a pre-preemptive strike of sorts.]

I could rant more, but that would be just more ranting...time to stop .... for now.

I don't think so.
I'm still from the school that "influence is from doing heroic things and infamy is from doing bad things."

I think when you take a character across the line, you should loose all the inf you have.

You are no longer INFLUENTIAL as a hero, once you become a villain. it's time to prove that you are truly a villain and start from scratch.
Same goes for a villain becoming a hero. No one is going to trust you, it's time to build up your rep (influence) from square one.

I'm not against you taking what ever you can carry at the the time, but, obviously, if you loose access to the hero side then you loose access to your hero-side base and everything in it.
I don't think the Vault is in Switzerland, etc. so all that stuff would be lost as well.

There is a cost for becoming a villain.
You're going to have to work hard the legit way to become a hero if you were a villain.

That's where I stand.

Keep the Markets separate forever!

There is a cost for switching sides. Get ready to pay the piper.

Hacking the .pigg files is verboten at any rate - aka breaks the EULA

If you are in a PvP zone, suck it up.

You can duel in safety in the Arena if you don't want to interact with others.

Is this really a post about selective courtesy to PvP'rs in the PvP zones?

Certainly PvP'rs generally don't have this kind of courtesy for what PvP'rs would call non-PvP'rs in the PvP zones looking to fight the enemies and get badges and such.

Seems kind of what PvP'rs call "whiny" to me.

I personally hate it when these said duels happen in say Sirens Call where you have a target that you get a bounty on. I found it often times that my bounty was one of those dueling or standing around watching. Often times if you attack your bounty all of the opposite side swarms to attack you, and your side just lets it happen because - you are disrupting their fun ?!

Nah. It's a PvP zone. I for one am going to treat it as one. The enemy is the enemy regardless of what they are up to. I know I get treated that way.

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My proposal is that you, the devs, remove experience gain from all missions EXCEPT Hall of Fame missions, and Dev's Choice. This will no doubt alleviate all the farming down with one foul swoop. I'm sure sifting through Hall of Fame missions for farms is a heck of a lot easier than sifting through ALL missions, anyways.

I want to be clear, this proposal of mine does NOT include infamy/influence, and prestige. In other words, all published missions would still be able to reward influence/infamy, and prestige if you're in SG mode. Just not experience points.

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People farm inf and prestige too. It is directly linked to the farming issue....just as much as tickets - which you don't bring up...

If you are going to take one reward away from the MA to attempt to prevent farming/pl'ing (and you are really talking about PL'ing when you are talking about xp...), all of them should be removed.

I am, however, against removing the rewards from MA.

Players abusing the system should not be allowed to punish us that don't abuse the system ....and that is just what the are doing. By abusing the system, they are harming our use of the system.
That's why I'm for punishing the abusers as well as correcting the content to curb abuse --- instead of gimping the content that is created by people who aren't abusing the system.

....oh, and this has already been discussed in the Positron post here ....

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....=0#Post13449435

.... you just have to dig through to find it .... I think it has been elsewhere as well ....

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Im wondering how people feel about the fairness of the rating system for the arcs?

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The rating system is totally bogus.
It is completely based on popularity and "You give me a 5, and I'll give you a 5" (the old "manus manum lavat" in action - sorry, M8)
It has nothing to do with how good an arc is nor does it give players the ability to find good arcs.

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Do you think that people who rate your arcs (a 0-5), should have their global name attached so you know who gave you what?


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Definitely not.
It would be a great way for some to make sure that others are giving them a 5 if they gave them a 5 - so I could see why some would want it for that reason.

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Or is it fair the way it is right now?

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It isn't fair in the least.
It definitely isn't balanced.

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The reason I ask this is, a friend of mine who has a seemingly well liked arc (Kept a consistent 4 stars through about 40 plays or so), got a "0" rating while he was online.

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Someone could have just backed out of the interface without clicking it. If the game is catching not voting as 0 stars there is an issue. the rating system is from 1-5 not 0-5. 1 should be the lowest rating an arc can get.
It appears to be a bug. Bug it in game if you see it happen. I have not seen evidence of this myself.

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He knew this because he saw that it had been rated and went to claim tickets, and there were none. (now granted something could have happened, but there was no feedback left regardless).


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He should have /bug-ed it if he was sure it should have been given stars.

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So do you feel its fair that when a player stars your arc, but does not leave feedback, you don't know who it was?


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You don't know how many stars someone gives you, unless they tell you in the feedback.
I definitely don't think that you should be given a list of players that have played your arc. It appears to me to be a method of keeping track of the "I'll 5 star yours, if you'll 5 star mine" crowd. They don't need more tools to help them manipulate the system further.

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Or is it fair like it is now?


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It isn't fair now.
Your way does nothing to improve the "fairness" of the rating system.

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I personally see both sides of the story, and would like to see what others thoughts are on the rating system as it stands right now.
Discuss....

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The rating system so off at this point that I think either thumbs up or a thumbs down rating system would still be manipulated too much to be useful.
I don't have the brain power at the moment to dwell on a solution to this too much.
The DEVs need to find a way to do it or hire someone that can figure out a way to do it.
No doubt, plenty of players will think up good ideas to resolve this issue.

Part of the problem is that there are SOOOOO many arcs out there that there is no way to tell what is what. There are 5 starred mission that are garbage and missions that haven't been played that are lost gems.
You can't tell about any of them until you play them. You can't tell what level they were intended for until you play them. It's pretty crazy at this point.

I'm sure that it will all shake down after a while.

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My two cents...

ZERO xp. ZERO rewards for AE missions. The only rewards (if any) should be badges.

If this is truly about "sharing" stories then make it about that. Sharing and beating a difficult custom mission should be it's own reward.

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I disagree. If the MA doesn't offer XP or tickets then players won't use it.
I agree that it is there for us to be able to tell good stories versus abusing it for other gain.
I don't care about badges, so there would be no reward for me at all if badges were the only reward.
I don't think that the AE is just for creating level 50 content. In fact, I'm not designing my content for level 50's. And, of course, players that aren't level 50 are going to want to get XP.


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The devs screwed the pooch big time. All the time it was in beta and no one saw the abuse coming?

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I am sure they saw it coming. I don't think they knew to what extent. It is also easier to build a dam then it is to try to piece-meal patch the little cracks.
I actually think it was a good idea to let all Hades break-loose so that they would know what they were dealing with.

I don't think having "come-back and power-level your toons weekend" was such a good idea, however. That could have been put off a month or so. At that point, hopefully, things would have already have been settled down.

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I don't fault the players that abused it one bit. It's like blaming a child for playing with fire when the parents leave matches on the table and the kid unsupervised.

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It's even worse when the mischievous neighborhood kid comes over cause trouble for the weekend and those same matches are on the table. That kid could careless about what happens to the house. Some of them just came over to see how badly they could break the system and take advantage of it.

I, however, do fault the normal players.
We have been told repeatedly that the MA was not for farming and power-leveling and that such actions would be stopped, etc. since the MA was announced - repeatedly.
I guess the "don't stick your hand in the lawnmower blades" should have been on every MA window and on the front of the Architect Edition box?

Don't blame people's irresponsibility on freedom (not the server).

They had a choice. They could use or abuse. If they are/were abusing it, they are causing trouble for everyone else and they are definitely to blame for their actions.

People cheat. We all know that cheating is against the rules. It is pretty obvious that cheating went on. Players knew they were cheating. Passing the blame for cheating doesn't stick. If you cheated, you are a cheater.

If you abuse, you are an abuser.

If you think it is your right to ruin a good thing by abusing it, then you know what I think of you.

I don't think I've ever seen an ice/devices ....

I suggest any new Epic AT's be rewarded for length of play instead of having a 50. It isn't a challege to get to 50 at this point and people PL to get there before their time. You can't cheat "months played" as far as I know.
It only makes sense to change this reward structure based on what has been going on and has increased.

I would honestly rather play a floating Eye-ball before a Void Hunter.

But I can see where a villain would want to be able to play a Void Hunter in PvP as they would be so disproportionately powerful versus a Kheldian - if they performed the way that they do in PvE.
Always good to look for something that is an advantage for you side rather than a game balancing or balance retaining factor.

If you are uncomfortable with what you think "might be" considered abusing the system --I suggest that you refrain from any content you feel "might be" abusing the system.

That's pretty clearly your judgment.

Think of it as a risk versus reward ratio like the DEVs have said. If it is too easy to get too great a reward - it should not be happening and is an abuse of the system.

This gray area talk is silliness and hair-splitting. It is clear what makes a mission too easy and give too much loot of one flavor of another.

I'd go into specifics but I don't have time.
I'd think that the following of your numbers are clearly abusing the system and not using it as intended - 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.

As far as the others, it if makes it too easy...then it is abusing the system.

I don't think there is a way to do that yet.

I would think that should be added as a MA map option that you could select. Some maps would have an option for normal street crowds (that run when they see enemies); those same maps should have an "empty street" option for those that want to keep those.
I think it would be good to be able to add construction workers to maps that would usually have them as well. (any other content that is related to the normal "zone" that some maps are from would be welcome as well. this goes for the NPC non-combatants.)

Anything that will be shown in the nav window can be color-manipulated as well.

I'm for leaving it as it is.
It's fine.
If you want to get lag and face over population, go to Freedom or Virtue.
If you want mid-sized crowd, go to Infinity or Justice.
If you like being one of the few heroes/villains in town, pick one of the servers at the top of the list (they are the least populated/capacity at the moment).

These threads pop up all the time. I can understand why you might think it is a good idea.
I've been around a while and I have characters on all the servers, and I like the change of pace to be able to pick a different server to go to. The population size doesn't matter to me.

Seriously, if you want to be on a server that gets so full that you can't play on it, make a character on Freedom or Virtue - there will be times that you can't log in because they are full.

Otherwise, be content that you can play the game when you want to.

What server are you on that you are having problems finding a group to team with? Might want to check their server forum here. I'm sure that there are sg's looking for more no matter what server you are on.
Once you have someone to game with, it won't matter to you how busy the server you are on is...or maybe you'd rather it wasn't so populated after all...

Are you taking about CoH3?

CoV is CoH2.

CoH3 - the next add-on game (not expansion, but a different game like CoV) was voted to be set on a space station and a lunar colony (I think those were the ones that won in the voting, I wanted underwater and the Mars base myself...) So I could see that set in the future - but that's an add-on game and not a replacement of or re-doing of CoH.

I would seriously hope a re-doing of CoH does not happen.

CoH/CoV have been improved and expanded almost from day one and this is a continuing process.

This whole CoH 2 thing that people keep starting is all because of conjecture from a magazine writer and has nothing to do with actual facts. Obviously, the writer doesn't have a very good grip on what has been going on if he thought at that time that CoH would have to completely rebuild itself in order to compete with Champions Online and DCU Online.
Champions Online isn't even Champions the RPG Online, so they shot themselves in the foot with that one from day one.
Champions Online is built upon what was to be the Marvel Online (which fell through) as far as I can tell. It is set-up with an archetype system like CoH. One of the many brilliant innovations of Champions the RPG was that there were no archetypes. Your character was an archetype because of how you made your character and not the other way around. There will be an option for you to pick powers from scratch, but from what I can tell it will be about less than 10% as customizable the Champions the RPG character creation system. Pretty sad really.
(I don't know what the newest versions of this RPG look like. I'm talking about the original books and the first hardbound) All the game mechanics of Champions the RPG were mathematically able to translate to a computer game easily, but the Champions Online DEVs chucked the mechanics and kept the Signature characters. The same Signature Characters that were apparently made as jokes of how to make bad characters in the RPG. Take for instance Foxbat who has all of his powers in an OAF. That's an Obvious Accessible Focus - one that anyone can grab and break. Without it, he is powerless. Good thing it is so big.
Layer two of complete flailing on the game design was to put the PC version of the game out first instead of the X-box 360 where it would have had no competition with CoH and had a chance to get a good audience.
Without this actually being Champions the RPG in an Online format, it's pretty much a farce as far as I'm concerned to call it Champions Online. It's kind of like calling a game Poker Online, and it actually using the Uno game play mechanics as far as I'm concerned. If it truly was Champions the RPG Online, they would have given CoH a run for it's money, but it isn't.

DCU Online is kind of failing in similar ways.
Wouldn't it be cool to play Superman. No can't do that.
You can't even be a Kryptonian from what I understand - unless they have changed things recently.
Sure you will be playing in the DCU, but you won't be part of it. You will be some other guy that happens to be there among the "real" DCU characters who are cool - you're the other guy that isn't so cool, btw. Some players are really interested in this. I hope it meets what they are looking for.
If you want to have the Fable-like mechanic of being classified to an alignment by action, then maybe you will want to give it a try (because I hope that CoH never gets that mechanic).
It is supposed to be very pretty, but pretty and playable are two different things.

CoH just need to keep being what it is - an evolving/expanding game. There is no need to re-invent the wheel. The competitors will be starting at square-one and trying to catch up with the 300 lbs Gorilla that is getting bigger and better by the day.

I'll be looking for a new version of CoH when I get a holodeck installed at home. Until then, CoH is doing fine progressing as it does at a steady clip - if you have been keeping track...

I agree with removing it from Atlas. There is far too much broadcast spamming going on for new players to be exposed to even without AE farming spams.

I agree with moving it to Galaxy. There is very little traffic in Galaxy. Face it, most of the time your first contact sends you to Atlas right away anyway! I think moving the AE there would bring more traffic. I know there are those that probably like Galaxy to themselves, but there is a lot of good content there that is missed because there is little or no reason to go there. Galaxy was my street hunting zone from 5-10 until police missions hit, and I started heading for Kings Row to work to get a jet pack. Once I had that, it really didn't make much sense to go back to Galaxy. The AE is the hook it needs. - or maybe come missions need to be moved to drag more traffic over there. (maybe some low level arena stuff would help aide traffic through there as well).

I don't care either way about Steel at this point, so I can't make a good decision as far as that goes. - though Steel gets far more traffic than Skyway, so...

I think that level-wise, etc. that Talos is a good place for the AE. It is a nexus of sorts, so that makes it a good place for it. I would hate to see it end up at the far end of IP! (either far end!)

Since this isn't an anti-farming thread, I guess I shouldn't suggest that everyone spam ignore players that send them tells requesting them to fill so that the farmer can make more loot and the filler gets used. So I won't, people will have to come up with that idea themselves if they so desire.

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Now, there is a group of people, which I personally believe to be a vocal minority, that does wants to forbid people who play this game from playing the "wrong" way. These people think we "should" all be focused on the story and RP elements, and not on gaining rewards effectively.

There is no defense of such a position. One cannnot support a position of discrimination against players of CoX based on what they enjoy when they play the game or on what they pursue.


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Of course, every position is defensible.
Why wouldn't it be?
Is it because you disagree with their position on how they want to play the game? Aren't you discriminating against them for disagreeing with you? Sure sounds like it in the first paragraph in the quote.


Go farm if you want, but don't harass me by sending me a tell to join you or to ask me to fill.
As far as I'm concerned, tells from farmers asking me to fill are SPAM. And they will be reported as such from now on.
Just keep that in mind when you are sending around your random tells to get more inf and loot for yourself and your fellow farmers. Some of us don't want to be harassed by your random tells.\
It's probably time for everyone that doesn't like getting these [u]SPAM farming tells[u] to do the same thing.


As far as I'm concerned, farming is boring and so is power-leveling. I really like to hear that ding when it means something. Dinging without a feeling of accomplishment is empty to me.


On the other hand, I don't have to have the most uber-est stuff to enjoy playing the game.
I blame this need for instant gratification on Pokemon.
I do think that some people are done playing once they have what they want. For some that is a 50. Those players that play only to get to 50 and don't want to be exposed to the depths of the game will burn-out and quit like a moth racing into a flame.


The content is what makes the game enjoyable.
Take a moment to smell the flowers before you out level them.

There is no reason to reply to me directly. I'm not going to come back to make any counter posts.
This is my stance.
It is just as defensible as anyone else's opinion.
We all have the right to our own opinion.
We have our own opinions for our own reasons.

Sounds like a good way to hide contact that might be reported for one reason or another.

For that reason alone, I don't think it will happen.

Is there a reason you want to hide the arc from the rest of the community?

Or are the AE buildings that hard to get to?

I understand that the missions computers are pretty useless at this point.
Mission content designed for Sg's seems like what this would have been usable for. It seems like the Pillar of Ice and Fire or what ever it is called - some how was created and given missions before the mission computer was.
There could be lots of cool SG related content for the Mission Computer - but since their isn't the MA is the way to go. Just because other people play the mission doesn't mean it isn't designed for your sg's own use.