TheMESS

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While we have accomplished some of those goals with the initial launch of Mission Architect, some have found ways to abuse the system we put in place. We are not blind to this happening, nor did we not expect it.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the subject of Chinese Whispers, may be worth re-reading the bolded line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ack, double negative hurt brain.

Given that I read the original and still managed to misread it my point about miscommunication still stands. What chance do those hearing about it 3rd or 4th hand have?

So they expected it and still let it go forward? That's probably even worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its even worse when you consider Positrins Winter lord story that he told in to TTH
[ QUOTE ]

Another moment would be the Winter Lords that went out with the first winter event that we did. We had just created new reward splitting code for Giant Monster-class entities which looked good on paper… in practice however it was possible to get a character from level 1 to 20 in under an hour fighting these things. I remember making a frantic call to our Producer at the time begging him to shut off the event early, but I was just a lowly designer back then, and the long-story-short is that event ended when it was scheduled to.


[/ QUOTE ]
Full thing here

If he was so desperate to stop lvling 1-20 in a hour that he called Producer and begged him to shut off the event early what was he like when the discovered you could lvl 1-50 in 6 hours he must have been frantic but did bugger all about it for a month over a month if you consider that the possibility that RCO could be used to lvl quickly was raised in beta

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now admitedly it would have been nice if there had been some variety in the mob types and I had up till positrons statement been tempted to create a series of maps filled with my favorit spawns so i could go on a smash happy rampage. But now i'm not so sure as it may get labeled as a exploit and get loose me a mission slot.

so yes dependant on my mood i find farming fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest, that sounds like a giggle, actually. And the only way it would fall foul of the "exploit" issue is if there's nothing challenging included in your list. Sure, that's rather subjective, but just make sure you include some nasty lieuts and bosses in there and it should be fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or when you put a timer on it. Can you clear the map before the timer runs out?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh a timer now there's a Idea a series of missions with every one having a little less time to do it in

*wanders off to once again ponder such things*

Keeping to the original topic

Yes on occasion i find farming fun with some alts largely my brutes it was nice to load into a relatively open map and just go to town smashing enemies left and right and watching that fury build.

It became less about the XP/inf (tho i wont lie and say that the XP and inf didn't matter often i needed the inf to buy IOs and XP is always nice) and more about seeing how long i could maintain max fury and how quick i could clear the map (it was almost a game within itself).

Now admitedly it would have been nice if there had been some variety in the mob types and I had up till positrons statement been tempted to create a series of maps filled with my favorit spawns so i could go on a smash happy rampage. But now i'm not so sure as it may get labeled as a exploit and get loose me a mission slot.

so yes dependant on my mood i find farming fun.

I think i agree with Londoner if its in the game and its not some kind of bug I don't see how it can be a exploit.

After all its not considered a exploit if you target hellions with a toon that dose cold damage even tho your exploiting the hellions weakness to cold is it?

a excellent Idea do we get a badge with it?

[ QUOTE ]
NO-ONE can possibly play farm after farm and not notice - to suggest that you can just miss the tons of easy-falling mobs giving insane XP is simply insulting everyone's intelligence.

Zos

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think any one is saying the didn't notice they were doing farm missions i think what people are saying is they liked doing those missions and there was nothing that said they shouldn't be doing them.

I think its more the retroactive nature of the ruling that's annoying people as much as anything else.

Its like taking kids into a sweet shop telling them they can have anything they want waiting till there eating there chosen sweet and then telling them of for having that one.

Had the dev's just come along and said "right as of now any one doing the following is gonna face the consequences" that's fair enuff but coming along and saying oh by the way that thing that may or may not have been against the EULA and that we all new you were doing is actually agenst the EULA so your band even tho you did it before we decided it was against the EULA. doing that is just going to P*** people of

[ QUOTE ]

The devs are responsible whether or not they are right or wrong. Irrespective of whether you love farming, dont care or hate it THEY have introduced a devisive update which has split the community.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your right the responsibility is with the Devs.

The Devs chose to develop architect.

The Devs suspected that it mite be abused.

The Devs chose to release it even when at least one player (I'm sure there was more) reported a exploit.

The Devs even tho they were aware of the exploit did nothing for almost a month. (other than spawn communication officers in atalas using the protest emote)

When the Devs finally decided to do something a statement was made stating.
[ QUOTE ]
Players that have abused the reward system egregiously may lose benefits they have gained - leading up to and perhaps including losing access to the characters power-leveled in this fashion.

[/ QUOTE ]
yet there is no definition given.

In fact if we go back and look at previous statements be positron well even see that he said it would be possible to level from 1 to 50 using soly the mission architect that's exactly what some people have done.

so what did they do that was wrong?

was picking a mission using the mission architect system wrong?
Nah that would defeat the entire purpose of the system.

Maybe it was doing the same mission over and over again? Except if you weren't allowed to repeat the missions why did they continue to appear to you there wasn't even a warning saying don't repeat missions.

Maybe it was the killing of a single mob type that that was within that mission but that was the mission.

So what did the mission player do wrong? they made use of the mission architect as it was set out.

So it must have been the mission designers surly?

but wait dose anything say you cant crate a custom group consisting of only one mob? Don't think so and again if your not supposed to do that why not program the system to force the placing of more than one mob type?

Maybe your not allowed to place certain mobs on certain maps? But again no instructions saying you cant.

So what exactly did the mission designer do wrong they used architect to design a mission they could share with the community. Is this not the intention of mission architect to allow us the player to design missions our only guide lines being.
[ QUOTE ]

* NCsoft has the right to ban any mission that violates the Rules of Conduct or User Agreement:
o Please click on the aforementioned links for full details. Parodies and derivative works are not allowed.
* NCsoft has the right to ban any mission that contains words that attempt to bypass the Profanity filter. Repeated violations by an “author” may result in account closure.
* NCsoft has the right to ban any mission and author that use the Mission Architect system for solicitation of business or advertisement of commercial services or activities.
* NCsoft reserves the right to ban any missions that contain any exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages. Players and/or “authors” that advertise exploitable missions through our forums, in-game chat system or through the Mission Architect system may be banned from the Mission Architect System or may have their game account closed.
* NCsoft reserves the right to remove or modify any item, NPC, Mission Map or any other element related to the Mission Architect system for any reason.
o Mission Architect changes may invalidate “Published” mission, in which case the author should “edit” their Published mission to preserve its rating. “Unpublishing” an invalid mission will result in loss of any earned ratings.

[/ QUOTE ]

So were not allowed to brake the Rules of Conduct or User Agreement ok fair enuf.

Were not bypass the profanity filter again fair enuff seems pretty clear.

We cant use MA for the solicitation of business or advertisement of commercial services or activities. Again that seem pretty clear.

then we get to
[ QUOTE ]
NCsoft reserves the right to ban any missions that contain any exploits that provide unintended statistical advantages. Players and/or “authors” that advertise exploitable missions through our forums, in-game chat system or through the Mission Architect system may be banned from the Mission Architect System or may have their game account closed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Say what? so i get the don't advertise them bit but whats a statistical advantage then?

Why not give us a proper definition now i think in this case there talking about to much XP per hour. But how much XP per hour is to much? Whats the norm? what are they using as a base line? I've been on teams running mission that have seen me maybe lvl up 2 or 3 time in a night is that a statistical advantage and if it is, is it ok because i wasn't doing it in mission architect?

I mean dose this statistical advantage thing only apply to mission architect or dose it apply across the game if me and a mate team up one of us on a low lvl character the other on a 50 are we braking some rule?

Please if your going to give us rules make them clear so at least we as player know where we stand.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

We haven't specified the exact extent of the measures we are taking against farming and those who have benefited from it, so let's not over-react.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's the problem

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, the problem is that NCSoft waited too long before taking a clear and firm stance on MA farming. They should have gone on the forums a week or two ago and basically said "We consider the MA farming to be an exploit. Don't do it. We are looking into ways to shut it down, and players who continue to abuse it might have some form of punishment imposed: we haven't decided yet."

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea i realised that i wasent very clear so have edited my post a bit

[ QUOTE ]

We haven't specified the exact extent of the measures we are taking against farming and those who have benefited from it, so let's not over-react.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the lack of specifics combined with the fact that it would seem that rikti com officers were reported in beta as a possible exploit when used within the MA is the problem.

Taking a month to release any kind of statement on the problem is bad when that statement can be read as "If you played one of the missions we consider exploits you'll be banned" is a PR disaster of epic proportions people wont read it as "we may ban you if you leveled 5 accounts worth of characters to 50" there gonna see it as "you looked at it your banned"

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Again farming comm officers is NOT an exploit.
I wrote several petitions in beta how easy those mobs can be farmed for xp.....they knew it.


[/ QUOTE ]
And in beta I /bugged many typos that are still in the MA tutorial. Does it mean that they are not typos because they are still there?

Simply not addressing a problem that has been reported does not mean that it's been condoned as acceptable behaviour.

EDIT: Although it was poor IMO that exploits had been reported many days before I14 went live but it still went live 1-2 weeks too early...

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is there's a pretty big difference between a few text errors that i bet most people don't even notice and a something that's now almost a month after launch been declared a massive exploit.

[ QUOTE ]
Again farming comm officers is NOT an exploit.
I wrote several petitions in beta how easy those mobs can be farmed for xp.....they knew it.

If the devs thought of comm officers to be an exploit they could have removed them 1 week after I14 went live and it became obvious... they didnt.
But they did remove other mobs like prisoners in one day without much trouble.

They knew it, they could have removed the comm officers from MA in one day... they didnt.. so they have no right to blame players now.

If they start to punish players now subsequently for things they didnt even warn the players abput, you have to be afraid to play at all, since they can decide everything to be an exploit or not working as intended and delete your chars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahah priceless how can the Devs now say its wrong when it was reported in beta

here's a question you can go from 1 to 50 doing rikti farm maps in less than a day how long dose it take doing "normal" MA story arcs that feature custom enemies?

I think your missing the point of this forum section is called "Suggestions" and that's what were doing we realise that the suggestions will more than likely never happen but something its just nice to suggest something.

[ QUOTE ]
Get your relatively cheap epic loot while you can.



[/ QUOTE ]

Ah but if you do that are you making use of a exploit?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So...punishing the players for their mistake of not thinking the MA through well enough before release?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only players abusing the system.

I'm not getting punished

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure so maybe you never knowingly farmed but what if they judge that you have? after all there's no clear designation on what they view as farming or power leveling

(has sudden image of numerous players having there characters suspended even tho they never went neer MA)

As you said mercs and robots transition easily.

As do Ninjas i think there's nothing says ninjas are evil tho they do seem to get some bad press re skin them in a more heroic white and hey presto good ninjas.

Thugs could be reskined as some kind of minore heroes think group of low powered heroes banding together under strong leadership

Zombies are difficult However not impossible re skin them into spirits the think something like shaman king where the "commander" is able to call on his ancestors to aid him in battle

Interesting it dose seem they've put some thought into it however its not really a fix is it all there doing is pushing farming back underground again farming wont stop it just wont happen in mission architect.

I find this
[ QUOTE ]

Players that have abused the reward system egregiously may lose benefits they have gained - leading up to and perhaps including losing access to the characters power-leveled in this fashion.


[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting and ill be interested in how they go about it in there own words MA gave the ability to go from 1 to 50 doing only MA missions and basically that's what people have been doing they cant even claim that people doing it was unexpected as in his own post posi states

[ QUOTE ]

While we have accomplished some of those goals with the initial launch of Mission Architect, some have found ways to abuse the system we put in place. We are not blind to this happening, nor did we not expect it. However, it is time to take action regarding it, so please be aware that we are about to implement a zero-tolerance stance on the extreme abuse we are seeing in the system.

[/ QUOTE ]

bold-ed the relative bit.

Your right we dont know how it works and it was really just a blind guess on my part based on the fact that at some point information is zipping betwean US, germany and the user PCs

I wonder as well if the fact that you have the game servers in Germany and the MA servers in the US and then the player in X country has any effect of the lag.

I mean it cant be good that if you want to do a MA mission the data's doing a transatlantic trip every time you load a mission

Am i the only one failing to see this market death that every one else is experiencing?

Over the last week I've managed to pick up 15 different IO set recipes i needed from the market (2 resist sets and 1 recharge pet) for very little inf much less inf than they would have cost me when i first priced the build the salvage again was easy to come by i got the majority of it using tickets and the exses salvage i had from doing random rolls for the few bits of common stuff i needed went on the market at 5inf each and while all of it sold it hardly sold for massive amounts but the extra inf was nice and helped pay the crafting bills for my set recipes it seemed very much a every one win situation to me

[ QUOTE ]
some "bronze" level recipies whihc are now becomming as rare as some salavage.


[/ QUOTE ]

what recipes do you mean when you say this as i have a character with all there auction slots filled with bronze recipes priced at 5 inf and as of last night non had sold

I recon new ATs could shake things up pretty nicely and could add a fair bit to the amount of choice i would even go so far as to suggest the adding of more than 2 ATs tho not all at the same time.

Some personal ideas

Hero - Commander AT - would be a hero equivalent to a MM however more focus would be placed on the actual character as opposed to the pets and so things like the pet buffs would be replaced with additional attacks

Hero - spy ([censored] name i know) - these would have dominator secondaries as primaries and stalker secondaries they could also be given a version of the surveillance power as a inherent perhaps only usable from hide but it would do a greater degree of debuff.

Villain - Decimator - these would be kind of a Blaster AT for villains they would have blasts as primaries and armours as secondaries however to avoid out right tank mageness there would be debuff associated with some of there armours (think things liek -speed, -damage, -acc) so for example say energy/stone Decimator could become like a gun emplacement static but able to lay out a massive amount of fire power

Villain - Pack leader(think goblin queen, darkness) - another MM ish character for villains but would work differently Pack leader would instead make use of more beastal like pets and so wouldn't have control over them like a MM dose (think controller) there attacks and pet buffs would be replaced with melee attacks so for example

1.shadow punch
2.Summon zombie
3.smite
4.Shadow mall
5.Grave night
6.Siphon life
7.lich
8.Midnight grasp

they would use the armour sets for secondaries

Hero/villain - shape shifter - more a pipe dream really but it would be nice if we got a proper non epic AT shape shifters along the lines of beast boy perhaps primary could be the shape shifts with a mix of full shifts and partial shifts with a secondary more angled towards buffs

Hero/Villain - Inventor - Not sure if this could work or even how it could work and it would probably have to be some kind of unlocked AT my basic idea is that this would be a AT in the vain of character like forge you would build temp powers from salvage and these would take the form of attacks/buff/armours etc that you could then either use your self or give to other players. perhaps one set could be offensive in nature and another defensive in nature villains would have offence/defence and heroes would have defence/offence

[ QUOTE ]


'Jab' is animated as an uppercut.
'Punch' is an odd elbow downstrike maneuver.
'Haymaker' is some sort of flourished two-hander hammerstrike.


[/ QUOTE ]

I hate all these things about SS and constantly wish they would rename/reanimate the powers to beter reflect what they are.

I've seen a increase in lag as well over the last few weeks far more than i used to get and seemingly at random i could be doing anything from super jumping across a zone to knee deep in longbow and there would just be a massive lag spike.

[ QUOTE ]
Kind of funny how many SS/Sd and elec/SD brutes you see all of a sudden since I14 farms.

Yes ss/SD and elec/SD are great for killing those ritki comm officers, but this week they get nerfed and wont be farmed anymore.

That means back to nemesis farming and those 2 combos suck big big big time in fighting nemesis.
make me giggle when they realize their "farm" toons they rolled for I14, become totally useless in the next days :-)

[/ QUOTE ]

Well considering both those combos were pretty popular when shields launched I would recon that there just coming back out the woodwork because MA offers a great way to get up to 39 where you can get the foot stomp/shield charge or lightning rod/shield charge combo which is why a lot of people rolled them.

I'm not sure why you think they couldn't farm nemesis as long as the lieutenants were left to last there would be no problems and as foot stomp/lightning rod/shield charge will kill the minions pretty quick there will only be the lieutenants left

(p.s id you want true rikti mass death go roll a bots/ MM and watch multiple spawns die in a energy/fire filled death)