Test_Rat

Originally Posted by Pitho

Okay, let's run some numbers.

Let's assume the damage numbers on City of Data right now are correct: http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/powers/

Dominator Smite does a total of 95.76 damage with an activation time of .97 seconds. (this is mostly for a comparison).

Haunt has an activation time of 2.33 seconds. It summons two shades. Each shade has shadow punch that does 46.72 damage total, .83 second cast time and 3 second recharge time. So they punch about every 4 seconds and deal around 15 punches each. So each shade deals about 700 damage, or about 1400 damage between the two of them. For an activation time of 2.33 seconds. That sounds like a good deal to me.

Even if they don't last the full duration they only have to get off 3 punches each to do better than smite's damage per activation.

Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei

Dark/Dark and Dark/Fire Doms in the 40's. Not agreeing with the deal about the Haunts. Not at all.

Originally Posted by Reppu

Then you ask yourself why you didn't roll Plant Control?

Originally Posted by Jibikao

I have not tried the new /EA 'cause my old Spine/EA hit 50 already and that was it. I didn't find the 2nd version of EA that bad for Stalker so I didn't even bother respecing him to try the third changes.


Having said that, I feel Ice Armor is better. It definitely feels more sturdier and I really enjoy Chilling Embrace. Even if IA has less defensive values, the aoe slow alone makes up for a lot of things because Stalker doesn't have taunt and mobs do run away. The slow just makes it easier to kill them off before they run too far.


I think IA is better. Both have holes in psionic. Icy Bastion is such a great god-mode. It has very high +regen and +recovery. I think many people don't know that Bastion has an amazing 500% +regen which is like a great DoT healing on yourself. It has shorter duration but it has no crash and it activates so fast. IA does lack a true healing power but that's why I save the +HP when my health is low. It heals and gives me extra HP!


IA also gives you amazing resistance to -slow/recharge debuffs. You can run through caltrops all day long.

Here is what I think. Both are very good defensive sets:

Energy Aura - more offensive due to the new +20% recharge

Ice Armor - more defensive due to some +resistance and -damage/slow debuffs

Originally Posted by Granite Agent

I thought you said you got it to work in Seismic Smash?

Originally Posted by Jibikao

I have a hard time believing an "easy-to-maintain" 60% damage buff is as "designed". That is even better than Tier 4 Alpha. And just from one single proc?

Originally Posted by Granite Agent

How were you able to slot it in an assault set? I could only slot it in the Dom control set, not my assault set -- e.g. Plant Control, not Fire Assault. What the heck?

Ah crap: does the game consider Seismic Smash a "control" power because of the hold?? That is lame. It would explain why you can slot it there.

I am left on Plant/Fire only able to slot it into the Control set powers. All are AOE except Creepers (useless for this proc) and Strangler (and I don't use ST hold much). So having it slotted in Roots is getting the proc nerfed by their new AOE proc code, and I'm not seeing nearly the procs you are. The proc may not be as OP as you think.

Originally Posted by Jibikao

Yeah, Scrapper's superior version is definitely an improvement. Stalker's regular proc already gives AS 100% critical (will need to test this again once the new change is live) so the superior version doesn't really improve anything unless you put the proc in an attack that has less than 15s recharge. To avoid "interruptable" assassin strike during attack chain, the best place to put it is still Assassin Strike IMO.

Well, maybe other ATO procs are too good? I mean I can't imagine allowing a 21ish% damage buff to stack up to 3 times? That's like a constant 60% damage buff? Excuse me?! I really don't think a single proc can provide up to 60% damage buff. That just doesn't sound logical to me. It's either bugged or the stacking icons don't actually give 60% damage buff.


A single proc that gives a critical once every 12-15s sounds good.

A single proc that gives 21% damage buff for 10s sounds good too.

A single proc that gives up to 60% damage buff sounds ridiculous!

Originally Posted by Siolfir

Given the announced changes for Stalkers in i22, I decided to actually take a look and see what Placate really does for your damage over the long run. Currently, it definitely increases it with Assassin's Strike, as the DPA increases dramatically; however this won't be the case in i22.



So here is a list of non-AS primary powers where the DPA increases with Placate, by set, including a 10% chance for double critical (without the chance for double critical, you can drop Disembowel):

• Broad Sword
  • Disembowel: +1.38 base DPA (60.55 -> 61.93, +2.27%)
• Claws
  • Eviscerate: +7.26 base DPA (54.39 -> 61.65, +13.35%)
• Dark Melee
  • Midnight Grasp: +6.16 base DPA (75.24 -> 81.39, +8.18%)
  • Siphon Life: +3.03 base DPA (56.77 -> 59.79, +5.33%)
• Dual Blades
  • Vengeful Slice: +5.97 base DPA (38.00 -> 43.97, +15.70%)
• Electric Melee
  • Thunder Strike: +4.34 base DPA (34.93 -> 39.28, +12.43%)
• Energy Melee
  • (none)
• Kinetic Melee
  • Focused Burst: +3.66 base DPA (44.71 -> 48.36, +8.18%)
  • Burst: +5.27 base DPA (26.33 -> 31.60, +20.00%)
• Martial Arts
  • Eagle Claw: +11.54 base DPA (64.44 -> 75.98, +17.91%)
• Ninja Blade
  • (none)
• Spines
  • Impale: +2.65 base DPA (46.43 -> 49.07, +5.70%)
• Street Justice
  • Crushing Uppercut: +8.88 base DPA (81.87 -> 90.75, +10.85%)

Note that rounding to 2 decimal places on the damage numbers produces results that don't necessarily match what the difference shows (I had Excel do the math for me and just regurgitated the numbers here).
The formula was pretty simple: (base damage + (hidden critical chance * critical damage) + (10% critical rate * critical damage)) / (arcanatime of power + arcanatime of Placate).

Some powers do more or less damage on a critical, and AoEs typically have a 50% chance to critical so that was accounted for by the "hidden critical chance"; I used the shorter cast time for Placate in the Dual Blades calculation, all others share a 1.5 sec cast time. For Thunder Strike I manually redid the formula to account for it having both a 100% chance (scale 1) and a 50% chance to critical (scale 0.96) while hidden.

So in 11 primaries, there are 11 total powers where their damage over time is helped by Placate.

Originally Posted by Jibikao

I am curious how you get critical after every AS. Do you have an attack chain longer than 10s? Or do you mean you get a critical after the initial AS?

I've been testing with MA and Elec and I can't get a critical after each AS that lands. And that's because the proc is only supposed to grant a hidden status (but no placate effect) once every 10s. The bug some of us are seeing is how we would do the attack chain but suddenly a-strike becomes "interruptable" even though we did not use placate.

And I wasn't trying to ask to reduce the chance of critical effect. I thought the stacking proc is what's causing the bug so I asked synapse to just reduce the duration but he said that's not possible because all proc activation is at 10s and he won't change that.



By the way, can Scrapper stack their increased critical chance or not?

Originally Posted by Granite Agent

I have the Dom proc in Roots and I don't see it proccing every time I use Roots. Where do you have it slotted? I know they nerfed the AOE-powers-have-more-chances-to-proc thing, so perhaps Roots is a big fail for it.

I couldn't find a control power I used more often except maybe Seeds.

Originally Posted by Jibikao

The regular dominator proc gives 21% damage boost for how long? And they can stack up to 3 times?

Well, you basically get a critical once every 12-15s with stalker's proc. The tough part is you may not use a heavy hitter with that critical.

I guess somebody can compare the two procs mathematically. Maybe dominator's proc is too good? How does the damage proc from blaster, corr and controller compare?

Originally Posted by Jibikao

More info from Synapse. (I only copy and paste his PM here because it's really not a "personal private" matter that can't be seen by others. It's only about how the proc works and how we can fix it) I figure it is easier to just copy and paste what he says to reduce confusion/questions.

If memory serves... 15s recharge powers should have a 100% chance to proc, but only once within a 10 second activation window. This doesn't mean once every 10 seconds though. Imagine time being broken up into 10 second chunks. A proc can occur in each of those chunks once. So you might have procs at the end of one chunk and the beginning of the next making it seem like it procs more than it should. That's just how activation time works on auto powers (enhancements are just fancy auto powers).

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle

At this point I'm just daydreaming but if they did spruce up ice melee to port it to scrappers, how much extra work would it really be to give it to stalkers as well? It always seemed like a natural fit for stalkers, to me, so I was never clear on why they didn't get it to go along with the armor.

Originally Posted by DoctorWhat

To be fair, the idea that Stalkers shouldn't get Titan Weapons or Sheild Defense is kinda sound from the concept. Stalkers are meant to be assassin's/ninjas/scouts who tend to rely on stealth and speed. Holding a big shield or massive weapon isn't conductive to either stealth or speed. If they get ported to Stalkers, fine. If not, oh well.

Porting Nin to Scrappers is something I support, but the idea brought up earlier about making a new set, Bushido, based off Ninjitsu and remade for Scrappers sounds even better. Probably defense heavy (Positional) with +Perception and -to hit debuff resistance. Instead of a click hold protection power, maybe a toggle with stacking resistances (Ala Invivibility's Defense). Make the T9 a mild boost to defense and resistance that doesn't have a harsh crash, but can't take recharge enhancements.

Something a little similar, but also different and opposite.

Originally Posted by DoctorWhat

Beltor mentioned it in yet another "Port Ninjitsu to Scrappers' thread when he pointed out that it could be used as the basis for a new set based on Bushido, or the code of honour of the samurai.

I thought I'd try a hand at making such a set (Although I doubt the devs will ever see it, sad to say) and figured I'd get some opinions back.

Level 1: Focused Senses: Toggle: Melee Def (14%), Def Res Debuff (17%). Costs 0.26/s
Level 2: Warning Senses: Toggle: Ranged and AoE Def (14%) Def Res Debuff (17%), +Perception (70%). Costs 0.26/s
Level 4: Samurai Rebirth: Self Heal (25%), Toxic Res (15%). Recharges in 60s.
Level 10: War Cry: PBAoE Defense Debuff (20%) for 30s. Recharges in 60s.
Level 16: Born For Victory: Toggle: +Res Stun, Sleep, Immobilize, Knockback, Confuse, Fear, Hold (Mag 10.38), +Res Dam All (7%). +Res Dam All for Each foe in range up to 10 (1.5%). Costs 0.26. (Taunt Aura if ported to Brutes/Tanks)
Level 20: Rally Cry: +Dam All to Self (10%) for 20s. PBAoE +Dam All to all Teammates (25%) for 20s. Recharges in 100s.
Level 28: Eternal Spirit: Auto: +Regeneration (25%) +Recovery (15%)
Level 35: Battle Reflexes: Auto: +Melee, Ranged and AoE Def (3.5%), + Def Res Debuff (17%)
Level 38: Fearless: +Def (30%), +Res All (30%), +Regeneration (+100%), +Recovery (+60%), +Dam All to Self (+60%) for 180s. After 180s -Endurance (100%), -Recovery (-10000%)

Originally Posted by Jibikao

I play mostly stalker and I can tell you /Shield FITS Stalker's gameplay perfectly (except for one power which can be easily replaced just like what they did for Willpower).

Shield has a bit lower personal defense in exchange for granting defense to others and having an awesome aoe attack that all Stalkers would die for.

Stalker is never going to grab aggro away from Tanker/Brute/Scrapper so the weaker personal defense really doesn't matter as much as some people think. If you play Stalkers enough, you'll realize that 1. you aren't going to be the meatshield for the team 2. even if you want to be the meatshield, you will have trouble grabbing aggro away from teammates. I use my Stalker and team with my friend's dominator and corr, and I can tell you that I can't grab aggro away from them even if I want to. Stalker has no taunt at all.

Stalker can technically buff teammates inside before the fight even begins! Several Stalkers can Grant Cover each other before Assassination starts!

Shield Charge does not break Hide so you can easily follow up with another nasty critical attack.


I think the sole reason that Stalker can't have Shield is that it is going to be "TOO GOOD" for Stalker. The idea that /shield won't work with Stalker is completely false IMO. /Shield works too well on Stalker and it makes other secondaries look bad and unattractive in terms of performance.

Sacrificing personal survival for more Damage is a PERFECT fit for an Assassin. This means Stalker will never have /Shield and /Fiery Armor. Stalker's performance is all tied to BU and Assassin Strike now. There is no way they'll give Stalker a shield charge or another build up in Fiery Embrace.