Test_Rat
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I did say I haven't run the numbers in quite a while, but this is Factoring in the animation time of Placate or is this from the natural hidden state?Originally Posted by Siolfir
I haven't run the numbers for Street Justice, but prior to i21 from hidden status Assassin's Strike has the best DPA available to Stalkers at all - it's comparable to Blaze, and depending on which AS you're talking about, often favorably. Now, Crushing Uppercut does more damage in less time at combo level 3 (yes, it hits even harder than an AS crit), and even beats it on a crit at combo level 0. So only Street Justice has a better attack after Placate, out of any Stalker set. [edit: checked numbers for CU on beta server (where I had enough points for StJ)]
Outside of hidden status, its DPA is middle-of-the-pack for most sets, usually the 3rd-5th in ranking and usually very close to the powers around it - it's a better DPA attack than Havoc Punch, but not really noticably so. It's second in Spines, sixth in Claws, and last in Martial Arts. The effect on your DPS depends on what chain you're using and whether or not you get interrupted, but saying "it lowers your DPS" is a nice ignorant blanket statement that simply isn't true. Slash lowers your DPS more than Assassin's Slash does, and that's in a set with the 3.67s animation; for KM with the faster animation it's 0.02 scale DPA (1.1 base damage for Stalkers) lower than Body Blow, which is the 3rd best DPA in the set.
Or, the tl;dr version: it depends but usually doesn't hurt, and if you're going to use it don't get hit.
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Quote:No, outside of Spines and maybe Elec, AS lowers your DPS.Originally Posted by BrandX
Last I knew, it had some of the best DPS, the problem is getting that attack off.
AVs can interrupt your softcapped stalker easy enough (at least that was my experience) by attacking while placating or while activating AS.
So you either lost time in attacking (interrupted AS) or you just wasted a good chunk of END for an attack that isn't getting the best DPS now, because the enemy wasnt placated (interrupted placate).
I had this problem on Maurader, Chimera and Nightstar on my KM/WP Stalker. I found I soloing Maurder and Chimera without AS being the best option, while Nightstar I just couldn't get bast her defenses :/
So yes, AS = AWESOME, making real use of it = NOT SO AWESOME!
Pretty certain though its been a while since i ran the math. -
You need to understand: I am not saying the set is unplayable.
Heck EM is playable. I am saying the stalker version is not as good as it's brothers. The devs had a cance to do something unique for stalker StJ like they did for KM. But instead they pulled a dual blades and left the set somewhat gutted.
I was hoping KM was the new standard in stalker ports. -
As gives 2, placate gives NO combo levels buddy.
Edit I should have quoted you lol. -
It makes the stalker set into a "take 9", you lose the sick animation, you lose the debuff, and using AS in your attack chain gimps your DPS.
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Quote:It was suggested repeatedly in beta.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Well since assassin's strike gives two combo points it wouldn't make sense to give three with stalker build up as two of them would frequently be redundant. It would make sense to give that last point either to placate or to build up. Have you suggested this to synapse? Maybe he didn't think of it.
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Let us see:
Stalkers lost rib cracker, one of the better combo builders and a -res debuff.
Stalkers cannot chain finishers like brutes, tanks, or scrappers due to having Build up.
AS for some arcane reason only gives 2 combo levels, forcing the use of another attack before a placate and finisher.
Street justice is definitely an after thought on stalkers like Dual blades.
Weakened port, to an already weaker AT says fail to me. -
Quote:This was suggested during beta.Originally Posted by BrandX
I was thinking about it, and I think what they should of done was made Placate a combo builder!
Placate (1 Combo Point) -> Assassin Strike ( 2 Combo Points) -> Spinning Strike -> WIN! \o/ -
Quote:Great. Mixing your build with what I had, I got something I like. Dropped the Mu pool, I figure shield charge + the 2 quick recharge AoEs will be enough.Originally Posted by BrandX
Like I said, friend isn't worried to much about being all that. And needed LBE and Afterburner.
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Thanks BrandX, I have multiple purple sets and PVP +Defs laying around so Gunna use em up on this toon. Looking at your build already showed me that I missed the +rechage proc in Spining strike.
Appreciated.
I see you skipped grant cover. I thought it was needed to cap -def debuff resistance? -
I just need some help tweaking a build, hoping you guys can offer some help making this build more efficient:
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Street Justice
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Heavy Blow -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(3), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(7), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(7)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(9), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(9)
Level 4: Sweeping Cross -- Oblit-%Dam(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(13), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(15), Oblit-Dmg(39)
Level 6: True Grit -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Heal-I(15), Heal-I(17), ResDam-I(17), ResDam-I(19)
Level 8: Rib Cracker -- T'Death-Dam%(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(31), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(31), T'Death-Acc/Dmg(31)
Level 10: Active Defense -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(19)
Level 12: Hover -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(21), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(21)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Spinning Strike -- Ragnrk-Knock%(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(23), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(25)
Level 20: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 22: Tough -- GA-3defTpProc(A), Aegis-ResDam(40), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(40), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(40), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(43), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27), LkGmblr-Def(27)
Level 26: Shin Breaker -- Mako-Dam%(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(45), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Mako-Acc/Dmg(48)
Level 28: Grant Cover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Combat Readiness -- GSFC-Build%(A), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(33), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(33), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(33), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(34), GSFC-ToHit(34)
Level 32: Crushing Uppercut -- Mako-Dam%(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(36), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Mako-Acc/Dmg(37)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Armgdn-Dam%(A), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(37), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(39)
Level 38: One with the Shield -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Aegis-ResDam(46), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(46), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(50), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(50)
Level 41: Mu Bolts -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(42), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- HO:Nucle(A), Ragnrk-Dmg(48), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 47: Fly -- Flight-I(A)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
Level 0: Marshal
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Born In Battle
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Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(11)
Level 1: Combo Level 1
Level 1: Combo Level 2
Level 1: Combo Level 3
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Code:Do i need to add more aoe to Street justice? Or is the Sweeping Cross (CONE), Spining Strike (TAoE), and Shield Charge (Teleport AoE, up every 30 seconds) going to be enough for regular play?| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1551;689;1378;HEX;| |78DA65945B6F125110C7CFC2620B94726DE9555AA02D85B2B06DD5A8D5265A351A4| |96A78D0D40B21F414B01B4A00A33EFA5DBCBEF84DBC44FD063EA80F5EDE7CF082B3| |3B7F28663721BF39B37366FE33E7B085075B232F2F3DDA14CAE879A3DC6E978A955| |6B9D9942D57A15CAD579C829E21FA457BFE52411A526AE75AE5FB46BD518DF5FD5B| |724F36DA522BD6EAD2D8ED2D83971B35D9928D8ED633BCDB07078676D1A8576B1D1| |FDBA649B9FE5F79AC55B129E56EF442B35ED18A9DB2B16F0AB8572A94DB1DD97A38| |41C2B2F47B352EF07455917108A1ABC2910697996A0A5C627A7C14AE587B1C628C8| |C39551C898041A6976214C428881946CC30625E536D27D776394D8B7C1E4A6972E4| |2FF88739FA9BB9F80B7ECAEFE2FCAA2B4AC62CC52485A52FD0E30A3304BE1DE7033| |1EB0D95849567E60E789B79F4167813DC61FAA89E9BEB29EEB304D52942A09B927A| |D1ABD7EC31AE8A48807B8CA05785627C5C5BF8BAF488515AFAAD1175857F9E15BE2| |385419C46F0044F7BFC38788C39B10EAE31FD9427CCD54518937652B531F6B9C656| |79B24BEBFC6E290FEACCF42AB8C654696F14DD44916F0ADD4CE104DF93CE494C727| |29F27B47217AC833566B6CACCED3103A4771A7AA791FF0DE59B45BED9177CC273CF| |C167E053E6FC13F031F303ED8D616F0C5AE6A125012D096849404B125A82A4258E7| |9C7CFF03C931BE069E6E229F02433447B16B0670133CB62B659CC52C76C75CCFA23| |1D410A7B523AE759CE83395063A6B3CC9F234264788F23B3C1372DB7CAEF7219BE2| |F5E3A2B0DB74A4B08EBE6C5C997C74DCD234E07BF7AFAFF4AA158B7F0FBA0E70AAB| |FD668BFA71E8519439CEE5013F1D7E41BA9F07EC2F03F68CDAB7CD25658CA9FD6F4| |8376D7B9BB779749B67CDE659B779AEDA3CDB2ACAF67B7307FA5FA1EE66985A82AA| |1D8FD92DDBD707EC1B03F6B501FB1FE241F279| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
If you guys think so I can drop the Mu pool and go another way in terms of the 40 powers.
The build is sofcapped and as close to permahasten as I can get (for shield charge). Have I sacraficed something that I am not thinking of? -
Quote:I ended up buying the set, and rolled a St.J/Shield scrapper.Originally Posted by Zem
What are they going to call it? Sucker Punch?
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Quote:I never played SS. Guess it shows.Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
That's a 12 foot diameter.
Foot Stomp has a 15 ft radius.
Nerf foot stomp?
*placates* -
I disagre Shubbie. The AoE is more than enough, considering that one is a Targeted 6ft radius (12 feet across, 3 less than Foot stomp), and that all the melee's can get another AoE in thier epic pools at 35 or 38.
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I am waiting for Titan Weapons and Staff fighting.
Letting those 400 point stipends bank up. -
Quote:Yeah you don't know how to play traps correctly thats all.Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
Traps, while awesome on paper, is too slow for team use, imo. Most teams I've been on won't wait for you to set up things STOPPED READING HERE
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Quote:A single person can't boycott anything Leo. Well they can but to what end?Originally Posted by Leo_G
You'd have to prove that Stalker Street Justice is worse off or that Rib Cracker/Taunt works out to better performance than Assassin's Strike/Placate.
I know *exactly* what you're doing. The devs didn't make the set exactly how you wanted it so you're boycotting it. I say fine. Doesn't mean the Stalker version isn't just as good as the other melees...unless proved otherwise...which you haven't done...
And yes, I am not going to buy a set that I think does less than its Scrapper, Brute and tank bretheren.
Look at the sets I herald in the past:
KM-Has the unique BU-Refresh mechanic (that almost was removed by accident in I21).
ElM-Lightning rod does not break hide
You know from our past discussions I always recommend playing the rest of the primaries on a scrapper instead because frankly they are BETTER there.
This is the same case for street justice. Another set, designed for Scrappers, Brutes and tanks.. then "OH YEAHED" over to the stalker AT without a second thought.
There is no boycott, no hidden motive. I encourage you to buy and enjoy the set. I will save my points.
EDIT: Look I know it wil play ok. But I am a min maxer at heart, and I need a reason why to play the set on a stalker over a scrapper. And frankly there isn't one good enough for me. -
Oh well, I will just save my Paragon Points, Inf-, and time for Staff Fighting or Heavy Weapons if they are acceptable on stalkers.
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Hopefully they pull a Kinetic melee later on and add something unique to the set for stalkers, and I will pick it up then.
The loss of Rib Cracker's debuff hurts. -
Quote:Are you factoring in the fact that the Combo level damage won't crit?Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Food for thought: An enhanced critical crushing uppercut is going to do 900 damage before factoring in damage buffs. Hmm. Hmmmmmmmmmm.
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Quote:Yeah I realized its rib cracker after I posted it. EDIT never mind gunna leave it.Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Shin breaker does not apply a defense debuff, rib cracker does. I don't know if you can slot it with defense sets or not but you're only losing a -7.5% res effect, not the -7.5% def. Shin breaker also has the poorest DPA of any street justice single target attack. While it's still good, had rib cracker been omitted for stalkers instead, the devs would have opened themselves up to the exact same criticism over that. Are you suggesting a ten power set?
I had plans for the stalker version of StJ (Concept won't work on a brute or Scrap) but I don't want to spend points paying for a gimped version of the set. Losing that -7.5% resistance is going to hurt the dps potentialof an AT whose DPS is nothing to write home about.
Stalkers gain BU yes, but we lose Ribcracker's damage, combo builder, AND resistance debuff. That is a pretty major loss. Combine that with, as you said: Shin Breaker is pretty low DPA (I am guessing still better than Assassin's strike though). The Stalker set doesn't sound very appealing to me.
I will just save my points and hope the next melee set released is similar to KM or Elec melee (as in worth rolling the stalker version). -
Please don't say Assassin's Strike makes up for the loss of Shin Breaker. (Wrong attack, see below)
I don't accept that a situatonal, low DPS, attack with a ridiculous interrupt time makes up for a loss of a pretty high DPA attack that applies a Def and resistance debuff.
I can't see the details of the set without purchasing it, so I am hoping one of you nice people who did purchase can take a look at the stalker numbers and tell me if any of Shin Breakers attributes have been ported to one of the other single target attacks (damage buff, recharge reduction, debuffs...).
I refuse to buy StJ off the store if its another set where the stalker version is gimped relative to the brute/tank/scrapper versions. -
Brutes and Scrappers always fighting for second place behind stalkers.
*Placates* -
Quote:Stalkers lose Shin Breaker. They may or may not be compensated for that with a buff to one of the other single target attacks in th set.Originally Posted by Ultimus
Which is exactly what Thunderstrike is but that hits very little targets *AND* it has a 1 foot wider radius then Street Justice's AOE power. Its also very rare to be on the outside of a mob with a taunt aura going because the mobs will instantly crowd around you.
Granted this doesn't apply to a Scrapper or Stalker (Do Stalker's even get this power?) but a targeted AOE like that is not very good. I have a level 50 Elec / Energy Aura and Thunderstrike is hard to accurately place especially with the added taunt aura to EA now. -
Wow tex.
There isn't much else to say, that answered my questions.
I do agree with you that outside of sleeps(which shold keep the 100% chance to mez) the 80% or 75% chance to Mezinstead of 100% chance with lower accuracy would have been a superior change to the aoe controls.
Do you think its too late to make that change now?